Beating child

toddster

Hi. I have a problem. Last week I witnessed one of the neighbours beating her kid pretty badly outside their back garden (I saw it from my secondfloor bedroom window overlooking the garden). the kid was bawling but there was no stopping the mother. I've heard kids crying a lot in the house but never saw something like this before. Should I contact the social workers? Or confront her myself...

Jo King

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

star-pants

When you say beating - could you elborate?

Splendour

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

I hope you're living up to your name with this post!
toddster, was she slapping the child or actually beating the child? A slap on the bum I could cope with but a beating, now that's another story altogether.

Queencake

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

No child deserves to be subject to violence.

Darthhoob

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

NO child deserves a beating, NONE! some poeple would agree with a smack..but beating is a totally different matter!

OP how old was this child (although that doesn't matter really)

she was obviously hitting him more than once if the child was crying but she wouldn't stop. i'd personally report her, if nothing is wrong then nothing will come of it. if something is wrong then the kids deserve to be safe

R.D. aka MR.D

Don't confront her yourself.

Since you say 'there was no stopping her' i'd imagine it went on too long for comfort.

Report her. I'm sure some one on here can point you in the right direction.

After one of these disgusting abuse cases happens the papers are full of people saying they didn't want to get involved. At least if you report something you think is wrong you can know at least you did something.

Nothing a child does deserves violence.

It might be nothing but then again it could be something.

toddster

I mean she had the child by the scruff of the neck and they were going round in a circle with her whacking his backside. He wasn't small mind but still looked around eight or nine. Who should I reort it to? can it be done anonymously

Splendour

toddster wrote: »

I mean she had the child by the scruff of the neck and they were going round in a circle with her whacking his backside. He wasn't small mind but still looked around eight or nine. Who should I reort it to? can it be done anonymously

If it were a once off (and you were sure of this), I'd possibly let it go, but if you think it happens a lot (you mentioned you hear the kids crying alot), then I think you should report it.
Having said that, I do remember my mother doing this to me and I'm not in anyway damaged from it. Of course that doesn't make it right.

Jo King

Queencake wrote: »

No child deserves to be subject to violence.

You have no idea what the child did. He was obviously trying to run off rather than take his punishment.

star-pants

There will always be the 'should you slap your child' debate and each to their own. I got a slap when I was younger and nothing wrong with me.
Beating on the other hand is a different story - you could report her to social services / ISPCC.
Do you feel it was a once off or a regular occurance?

Splendour

On reflection toddster am just surmising here,, but is this woman by any chance a single parent? Maybe she's at her wits end and kids always seem to press the wrong buttons. Maybe you could ask her in for a coffee and offer to help her out or whatever...

Miaireland

I would report her. No child deserves that and if something happened could you live with the fact that you did nothing.

I am sure you could contact your local garda station and they should be able to give you the name of someone you could contact.

Suucee

I would report her, if the children are safe then no harm done but if not then you no you have done the right thing. I'm sure you can probably do it Anonymously. maybe contact your local garda station and they may be able to help or tell you who to cantact.

Jessica-Rabbit

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

Please tell me you are joking ... no child regardless of the behviour deserves to be abused in such away.. i am sickend that you would come out with such comment.. i do hope you are not a parent and will never become one

omahaid

I would have to be sure it is a regular occurance before ringing anyone. As a parent, I have lost the cool once or twice (when pushed), its not something I'm proud of but do I deserve to have my child taken away?

It depends on the frequency and severity I think, and I got the odd "spanking" with the wooden spoon as a child and turned out fine (promise ).

omahaid

Jessica-Rabbit wrote: »

i am sickend that you would come out with such comment.. i do hope you are not a parent and will never become one

Wait till you find out what kids do to eachother. You'll be really sickened then.

Sometimes kids deserve to be punished, without knowing the severity of the "beating" its disgusting to suggest someone should never have kids based on the fact they suggested the child might deserve some punishment for some wrongdoing.

LegacyUser

Right.
I'm sick of this attitude of 'i got a few spankings as a child and i turned out fine'. Thats not a valid point:

a) how do we know you are fine?
b) you are one of those who are lucky not to have been affected.

I got smacked a bit. Nothing too serious. few slaps with the wooden spoon. spanking. one more serious occasion that was more just scary as opposed to actually dangerous. Possibly none of that would have mattered too much in other circumstances. But i was also getting bullied, teased, punched, kicked on a daily basis at school. SO you know what - when you get that at school. it kinda of means a hell of alot to go home and get more of the same. it doesn't bothered me now, at 32. but it had horrible effect on me up until mid-to-late twenties

Jessica-Rabbit

omahaid wrote: »

Wait till you find out what kids do to eachother. You'll be really sickened then.

Sometimes kids deserve to be punished, without knowing the severity of the "beating" its disgusting to suggest someone should never have kids based on the fact they suggested the child might deserve some punishment for some wrongdoing.

I agree that children need to be punished for wrong doing but beating a child in completely unacceptable regardless of what they have done.. there are far more effecive ways of dealing with a child without needing to resort to voilence and the OP did say that the mother was voilent to the child.. anyone that dose this to a child should be punished.. people need to reaslise the affect that phyiscal voilence has on a child

Jo King

Jessica-Rabbit wrote: »

I agree that children need to be punished for wrong doing but beating a child in completely unacceptable regardless of what they have done.. there are far more effecive ways of dealing with a child without needing to resort to voilence and the OP did say that the mother was voilent to the child.. anyone that dose this to a child should be punished.. people need to reaslise the affect that phyiscal voilence has on a child

The alleged "beating" described by the o/p did not appear to be very much. The child was running ahead of the mother at all times which would mean that there was little or no force in the blows if any received by the child. The child was also fully clothed it would seem. It was the child's bawling which attracted the o/ps attention. Spoilt children are very good at putting on an act and making a lot of unjustified noise. I had neighbours who used to strip the children and whip them with either a leather strap, a bamboo cane or an electric flex if they misbehaved. That is a lot more severe than the alleged beating described by the o/p.

Jessica-Rabbit

Jo King wrote: »

The alleged "beating" described by the o/p did not appear to be very much. The child was running ahead of the mother at all times which would mean that there was little or no force in the blows if any received by the child. The child was also fully clothed it would seem. It was the child's bawling which attracted the o/ps attention. Spoilt children are very good at putting on an act and making a lot of unjustified noise. I had neighbours who used to strip the children and whip them with either a leather strap, a bamboo cane or an electric flex if they misbehaved. That is a lot more severe than the alleged beating described by the o/p.
the child does not appear to have

the OP claimed that the mother had the child by the scruff of the neck..and i can assure you she was not chasing the child purely for entertainment she wanted to hurt the child as she was angry that he misbehaved.. also the OP claimed that the child was heard indoors screaming on occasions more than likely because he was being beaten.. and in my opinion it would be the best option to have the child seen to by a social worker to determine how often this accures and action should be taken

star-pants

Just a note btw, my next door neighbours have 3 children, I've heard them screaming, I've heard arguements, but I know nothing untoward is going on. I used to babysit them. The youngest bawls over nothing, I know I've heard the situation.

Whilst I feel people should look out for children, I think we (who do not know the neighbours in question, nor have any of us heard what's gone on) cannot start throwing around accusations of kids crying in the house meaning their being beaten. I'm sorry but if someone said 'oh I heard your child crying in your house,I assumed you were beating them I've called social services' I'd be pretty ticked off.

Only the OP was there and knows what she/he saw and what they've heard. If they feel they should contact social services then they should. Noone here can gauge the situation.

LegacyUser

OP how bloody well dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fckin busybody!!!

What is very likely a child misbehaving recieving a few smacks in the arse for bad behaviour and you're gonna call the absolute Rottweilers that are social services????!!!!

Holy crap. You could totally destroy a family over your this......... and for what?

IDIOT!!!

dudara

^^
Unregistered poster - please respect other posters on Personal Issues and treat others with respect. While I understand your sentiment, I find your tone rude. Any further posts in that vein will not be approved for publication.

dudara

Kidchameleon

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

theres no reason on this planet to ever beat a child, if the child done the worst thing imaginable it would be no excuse to beat them or even slap them

Kidchameleon

omahaid wrote: »

I would have to be sure it is a regular occurance before ringing anyone. As a parent, I have lost the cool once or twice (when pushed), its not something I'm proud of but do I deserve to have my child taken away?

It depends on the frequency and severity I think, and I got the odd "spanking" with the wooden spoon as a child and turned out fine (promise ).

you dident turn out fine, you hit your children so that is a flaw

Firetrap

Whether giving a child a slap is considered to be acceptable behaviour or not is not really the issue here. Unless we get further information from the OP as to exactly what happened, nobody can comment. I think it's important to make a distinction between slapping a kid and subjecting it to a beating. There is a difference.

omahaid

Kidchameleon wrote: »

you dident turn out fine, you hit your children so that is a flaw

Did I? Can you quote that please?

As has been said elsewhere, there is a massive difference between beating and spanking. My point is that the OP should be sure before calling anyone. If it was a beating then of course call the appropriate people.

Jessica-Rabbit

how dare you wrote: »

OP how bloody well dare you!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fckin busybody!!!

What is very likely a child misbehaving recieving a few smacks in the arse for bad behaviour and you're gonna call the absolute Rottweilers that are social services????!!!!

Holy crap. You could totally destroy a family over your this......... and for what?

IDIOT!!!

Socail services are there to protect children... no chlid should be punished using any type of phyiscal voilence it teaches them nothing.. all it shows is a parent who has no self controll

Nevyn

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/birth-family-relationships/services-and-supports-for-children/child-abuse#howtoapply

How do I report my concerns?

Anyone who suspects that a child is being abused, or is at risk of abuse, has a duty to report their suspicions to the HSE. You should report your concerns to the HSE’s Child Protection and Social Work Services in your area. Each Local Health Office has a social worker on duty.

You can report your concerns in person, by writing or by phone. While you can report your concerns anonymously, the HSE does not normally reveal the names of people who report suspicions of child abuse unless they have permission to do so. If you are unsure about your concerns, you can discuss your suspicions with the social worker before deciding to make a formal report.

The HSE will consider your report and decide whether it needs following up. If it does, the HSE will look for information from other sources and will contact the child and the child’s parents in order to establish what is going on. It will then take whatever action is required to protect the child.

If you need to report your concerns outside normal office hours (weekends and at night) you should report your concerns to the Garda Síochána.

Under the Protection for Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act 1998, so long as you report what you believe to be true and you do it in good faith you cannot be sued for making a false or malicious report.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/Find_a_Service/Local_Health_Offices/

MariMel

Can I add to this.....I dont agree with beating a child, I have given my little fella a smack on the backside once or twice, but if i ever felt that I was so wound up to want to repeatedly smack him again and a again I will walk away til i have calmed down and then dealt a different punishment.
Before anyone says that I am lucky to have such patience....i dont....I suffered from depression on and off for years, so I at times have been at my wits end over something non child related and snapped at something minor that wouldnt normally bother me on another day.
In my more capable days I could deal with issues easier and things were much more unlikely to escalate.

Even if this mother is reported then maybe she may get the help she needs to help her deal with her child, the Social Services are a great resource if you can get over the 'stigma' attached to dealing with them and them being involved in your family life.

994

Splendour wrote: »

On reflection toddster am just surmising here,, but is this woman by any chance a single parent? Maybe she's at her wits end and kids always seem to press the wrong buttons. Maybe you could ask her in for a coffee and offer to help her out or whatever...

Because a beating from a single mother doesn't hurt a child as much?

Moomoo1

I wonder how many people who want that poor woman to be strung up actually brought up difficult children...

Seriously, sometimes there is no other way. None. Nada. Understand? No other way at all.

If the social services come and take the children away, will that help them in any way? It would probably traumatise them for the rest of their lives!

LegacyUser

I was hit almost every day by my mum, she would hit me because I was shy and would not mix, if she gave a reason, she also hit me as an adult...I let the school know and they did nothing. A child should never be hit and the mother should be reported.

Kradock

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I wonder how many people who want that poor woman to be strung up actually brought up difficult children...

Seriously, sometimes there is no other way. None. Nada. Understand? No other way at all.

If the social services come and take the children away, will that help them in any way? It would probably traumatise them for the rest of their lives!

Thats a load of bollix . There is absolutely no reason to lay a hand on a child , none whatsoever , nada as you put it. It shows a lack of intelligence if you need to use physical force of any kind on a child

Splendour

994 wrote: »

Because a beating from a single mother doesn't hurt a child as much?

No, but if the mother is on her own with kids she is obviously under more stress than a Mom who has a partner.

Evil-p

I have to disagree with a lot of the posts here. I happen to have a little inside knowledge about socail services in this country.

1. Slapping is not against the law. I was never slapped nor would I slap my children however a slap on the bum is not a reason to call social services. I appreciate that the mother was slapping with gusto as the OP said however it does not sound like abuse.

2. The reality in this country is the resourses of the HSE are so stretched that it is unlikely that social services would even respond to the call. Even if they did and even if it was established that the child was being abused, it is likely that no action would be taken. A shortage of resourses and foster parents means that children are often left in these homes. And compared to some abuse cases, the one described by the OP sounds very minor.

3. I appreciate the OP is concerned however perhaps keeping a discrete eye out for futher abuse and then reporting it if it seems ongoing.

As i have stated above, i dispise the use of physical force, i wouldn't like hulk hogan holding my by the scruff of the neck and walloping me.........and that is what it feels like for a child! I know my parents were battered as kids though and they are good people who never hit us so the cycle can be broken with some intelligent thought!!!

Nevyn

Social services will not come and take the children away just like that,
they can not with out good grounds and a court order.

They can offer help and support to a parent who is struggling be it couselling, parenting classes, parenting suport or a home help, they will support the family in the home and put in supports to make things better rather then pulling a child out of a home.

LegacyUser

Splendour wrote: »

No, but if the mother is on her own with kids she is obviously under more stress than a Mom who has a partner.

But the child doesn't know that!!!

Personally I don't believe that any form of violence against a child (including smacking) is acceptable. I was slapped when I was growing up, I genuinely don't believe it did me any harm; however there are far more effective methods out there and parents are better equipped to educate themselves about these methods.

toddster wrote: »

I mean she had the child by the scruff of the neck and they were going round in a circle with her whacking his backside.

Even if smacking were an effective tool, which I don't think it is, the behaviour described above sounds excessive. It sounds to me like a parent who has lost control. It's not going to kill the child, or badly hurt him. However who knows what will happen next time.

It's up to the OP to gauge the situation. If it were me? Well, if she has nothing to hide, then would it matter if the social services were anonymously informed.

Splendour

going anon wrote: »

But the child doesn't know that!!!

I agree with you but maybe the mother needs help rather than condemnation.

Darthhoob

Jo King wrote: »

You have no idea what the child did. He was obviously trying to run off rather than take his punishment.

if someone started to beat me i think i'd try and run off too :rolleyes:

Darthhoob

Firetrap wrote: »

Whether giving a child a slap is considered to be acceptable behaviour or not is not really the issue here. Unless we get further information from the OP as to exactly what happened, nobody can comment. I think it's important to make a distinction between slapping a kid and subjecting it to a beating. There is a difference.

a VERY big difference. my mum smacked me, bloody hard wherever she could reach while i was legging it. i loved and respected her and she only did it when i was really bad..so not much cos i was an angel

my dad on the other hand...used to grab me and whack me several times, such anger on his face, swearing, cursing, and for stupid stupid reasons (once was when i was 2 and i took a bite out of all the bananas...stupid yes but i was 2...and i liked bananas :rolleyes:). i have zero respect for him now, i pretty much hate him. and i dont trust him with my kids (as he took a swing at my eldest once). and his beting and general negativity DID affect me. more than the love my mum gave me could cancel out.

so yes....a smack and a beating are VERY different. one can be used as discipline, one is a very bad way of venting anger!

Darthhoob

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I wonder how many people who want that poor woman to be strung up actually brought up difficult children...

Seriously, sometimes there is no other way. None. Nada. Understand? No other way at all.

If the social services come and take the children away, will that help them in any way? It would probably traumatise them for the rest of their lives!

my eldest son has Aspergers and ADHD...so yes i know how difficult kids can be :pac:

there have been times when i've been VERY angry and fed up with him, it's hard work. but beating??? never! and i am probably the most impatient person you could meet and have anger/depression issues lol!

social services do not just take kids away after a report. they investigate. if nothing is found untoward, nothing happens. and tbh it takes ALOT of abuse etc for social services to remove kids from their family...they tend to try their hardest to keep families together.
social services help me with my son, not because i was reported but because they are there to help people, and i asked for help (respite mostly). they just have a stigma attached to them

MariMel

Thaedydal wrote: »

They can offer help and support to a parent who is struggling be it couselling, parenting classes, parenting suport or a home help, they will support the family in the home and put in supports to make things better rather then pulling a child out of a home.

This is very true..... I have been involved with the Social Services and have had a social worker assigned to me. As I said above I suffered from PND and depression on and off for years and badly for the first few eyars of my sons life. I needed the help....close family members were telling me that I would always be in the system. Tbh what does that matter.
Through them I got my son into a creche a few mornings a week to give me a break, I did a parenting course and my son had soemone who came round to talk with him once a week and help both me and my son develop a strong bond that we still have to this day.
I got counselling through them and they liased with my community worker.
They helped me get work on a CE scheme. This helped me immensely. Regaining some of myself and making me more capable of dealing with issues that arose.
I even was asked a few years later to come talk to other parents who found themselves in difficulty. I apparently was one of their success stories.
I went through a tough time a while back and they were on the ball in a shot, seeing what they could do to help.

OP if you feel that this mother is struggling then by all means call the Social Services, say that you have concerns that the mother might be experiencing difficulties. She may in the long run be grateful. I know I am that they became involved in my life.

And darthhoob....thank you for also saying that you have dealt with Social workers....hopefully we can show what a great resource they can be.

LegacyUser

toddster wrote: »

Hi. I have a problem. Last week I witnessed one of the neighbours beating her kid pretty badly outside their back garden (I saw it from my secondfloor bedroom window overlooking the garden). the kid was bawling but there was no stopping the mother. I've heard kids crying a lot in the house but never saw something like this before. Should I contact the social workers? Or confront her myself...

Contact social welfare.

metrovelvet

I dont know... maybe it's different in Dublin then in the country but I know of a mother who had her kids taken from her due to "unhygenic" reasons. I never saw her house so I have no idea how bad it was but given the recent climate, like the Roscommon case, etc they might be more on top of these kinds of things, especially when it comes to single mothers.

As for beating kids, I remember growing up in was quite normal to get smacked or hit. But I think I may be of the last generation to get the wooden spoon and the belt. And when I see the news of those ten year old boys and what they did to the four year old in England, my baser instincts kick in as to what Id like to do to them if they did that to my son, and I think many many people would understand that. However, saying that, a nine year old, a ten year old, is still a child, and for a parent to take out their frustrations on a child, is simply cowardly, for they wouldnt dare do the same to an adult or to someone who would be able to hit back with equal strength. Nor do they have the courage to face their own deamons or to take a longer and tough road to discipline, which requires a hell of a lot more patience.

You can rule by fear or you can rule by love, and the latter is imo, the tougher but more effective method. Both this child and its mother need help, both of them, neither need more punishment.

What I would do OP, instead of reporting them, is perhaps putting in a call to Social services or parenting helpline and seek advice from them as to how to help both this mother and child without giving out any names or details and take it from there.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

WTF? No child deserves a beating... a slap maybe, but not a beating.

castle

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

A child should never deserve a beating,a clip around the ear maybe take PS of them etc but a beating.This is assault in Sweden and Finland if a parent there done the same thing and rightly so.
Please report as this poor child needs help

Jo King

Darthhoob wrote: »

my dad on the other hand...used to grab me and whack me several times, such anger on his face, swearing, cursing, and for stupid stupid reasons (once was when i was 2 and i took a bite out of all the bananas...stupid yes but i was 2...and i liked bananas :rolleyes:). !

Did you do it again?

Nevyn

This thread is not on the debate of slapping/smacking children that can be had in humanties or there is a large thread on it in the parenting forum.
Please keep all posts on topic and helpful to the orginal poster.

walshb

Jo King wrote: »

How do you know the child did not deseve it? You do not know what the child did so you should not automatically assume the mother was in the wrong.

Unfortunately the world is full of your kind!