Pull Ups / Chins Vs One Arm DB Row / Barbell Row

BossArky

I'm wondering if I'm neglecting my mid / upper back i.e. rear delts & rhomboids

I'm following a 531 routine for the past 2 months and will keep at it until xmas: 6 months in total.

Do you think I need more rowing in the routine below or are the chins and pull ups sufficient? I've highlighted the current back work.

Day 1: Military Press, Dips, Chins (3x10 @BW)
Day 2: Deadlift, Hanging Leg Raise
Day 3: Bench Press, Pull Ups (3x10 @BW), Face Pulls
Day 4: Squat, Ab Pull-down

I've started to include One Arm DB Rows (3x8) on Bench day the past few sessions. They hit me more in the rhomboids / between shoulder blade. Not sure if I need them though.

Pull Ups / Chins seem to just work my lats & arms rather than mid back.

Do you think Pull Ups / Chins are enough or should I add more rowing movements?

Parsley

BossArky wrote: »

I'm wondering if I'm neglecting my mid / upper back i.e. rear delts & rhomboids

I'm following a 531 routine for the past 2 months and will keep at it until xmas: 6 months in total.

Do you think I need more rowing in the routine below or are the chins and pull ups sufficient? I've highlighted the current back work.

Day 1: Military Press, Dips, Chins (3x10 @BW)
Day 2: Deadlift, Hanging Leg Raise
Day 3: Bench Press, Pull Ups (3x10 @BW), Face Pulls
Day 4: Squat, Ab Pull-down

I've started to include One Arm DB Rows (3x8) on Bench day the past few sessions. They hit me more in the rhomboids / between shoulder blade. Not sure if I need them though.

Pull Ups / Chins seem to just work my lats & arms rather than mid back.

Do you think Pull Ups / Chins are enough or should I add more rowing movements?

Between the DLs, chins, pullsups, face pulls and DB rows it seems you've got your back pretty damn well covered. Just because you don't feel a burning doesn't mean you aren't working the muscles remember. If you're like me though and need to feel something I'd recommend pendlay rows, i can always feel them working right across my back.

Johnnyjump

On second thoughts, having read this, .....

Johnnyjump

Then again, it shows how much can be done without having to pay expensive gym membership fees.

104494431

I was told that face pulls are "pre abilitative" by one of the instructors in the gym and that it's not advisable to use a lot of weight.

Opinions?

Cravez

104494431 wrote: »

I was told that face pulls are "pre abilitative" by one of the instructors in the gym and that it's not advisable to use a lot of weight.

Opinions?

I think it's used in a general sense as more of a warm-up exercise or a sub exercise to help develop rear delt/scapular flexbility. Personally, i use it as a staple rear delt exercise and i use alot of weight with it. The risk with the exercise i find is minimal, just make sure you are using a weight most comfortable with and go for 8-12+ reps

@ Bossarky: I think the routine looks fine

BossArky

Thanks for the input guys.

Parsley wrote: »

Between the DLs, chins, pullsups, face pulls and DB rows it seems you've got your back pretty damn well covered.

Michael Cravez wrote: »

@ Bossarky: I think the routine looks fine

Do you mean it looks fine with or without the db rows I've recently added?

Parsley wrote: »

If you're like me though and need to feel something I'd recommend pendlay rows, i can always feel them working right across my back.

I'll give these a go on my next deload. Never tried them.

104494431

Michael Cravez wrote: »

I think it's used in a general sense as more of a warm-up exercise or a sub exercise to help develop rear delt/scapular flexbility. Personally, i use it as a staple rear delt exercise and i use alot of weight with it. The risk with the exercise i find is minimal, just make sure you are using a weight most comfortable with and go for 8-12+ reps

I'd be the same myself, really liking the exercise helps too. I usually pair it with compound rows on the cable machine to try and get as much of the delts working as possible.

celestial

Your rhomboids are getting hit more than you think! There is a good reason why they are not targeted specifically - they are rarely weak, probably because they are embedded right there in the middle of your back and are acting as stabilisers/synergists for your back exercises.

Any exercise that causes your shoulder blades to come together is engaging your rhomboids - your routine will look after them just fine. Make some of your pull-ups wide grip if you want to work them a bit more.

Inspector Coptoor

i know you were mainly asking about back in your 5/3/1 one OP but what i see lacking in your workout is direct hamstring work. throw in glute ham raise on deadlift day and maybe leg curls or stiff leg deadlifts on squat day.

Back part looks fine to me for what its worth

BossArky

Liam Henners257 wrote: »

i know you were mainly asking about back in your 5/3/1 one OP but what i see lacking in your workout is direct hamstring work. throw in glute ham raise on deadlift day and maybe leg curls or stiff leg deadlifts on squat day.

Back part looks fine to me for what its worth

Cheers. I actually do glute ham raise (3x10@BW) on Deadlift day but don't consider it a "main" exercise. You're probably right about stiff leg deads on squat day though.

Cravez

BossArky wrote: »

Do you mean it looks fine with or without the db rows I've recently added?

Without

You can always switch around pull-ups for the rows every few weeks or so, or instead of the chins if you want. But i think the original routine is fine.

Also id chime in and agree with what liam said, some hamstring/glute exercises wouldn't hurt (maybe the next day it will, but figuratively speaking )

Captain Furball

For BossArky
Just curious, why are you doing the chin and pull ups for 3x10 @ bw?

BossArky

Captain Furball wrote: »

For BossArky
Just curious, why are you doing the chin and pull ups for 3x10 @ bw?

2 months ago I started at 3x8. The plan is to 1 rep to 1 set per week on chins one day, pull ups the next. I've just finished week 7 below, so next up is 3x10 after deload week.

Week 1: 3x8
Week 2: 1x9, 2x8
Week 3: 2x9, 1x8
Week 4: 3x5... this is deload week

Week 5: 3x9
Week 6: 1x10, 2x9
Week 7: 2x10, 1x9
Week 8: 3x5... this is deload week

Week 9: 3x10, ...etc
Week 13: 3x11 ...etc
Week 17: 3x12 ...etc
Week 21: 3x13 ...etc

If I can manage to get to 3x13 then that should improve my "all out" set and get me somewhere nearer to my goal of 20 in a set by the end of my 531 6 month plan. I'll probably go to weighted chins/pull ups then.

Captain Furball

sets of 20 reps is pretty badass
So your goal is endurance?

BossArky

Michael Cravez wrote: »

Without

You can always switch around pull-ups for the rows every few weeks or so, or instead of the chins if you want. But i think the original routine is fine.

Also id chime in and agree with what liam said, some hamstring/glute exercises wouldn't hurt (maybe the next day it will, but figuratively speaking )

I'll add some stiff leg deadlifts when I start the next cycle. Thanks for the feedback

Captain Furball wrote: »

sets of 20 reps is pretty badass
So your goal is endurance?

Yeah, for the moment I'm working on building up to an increased 1 rep max set.

cardio,shoot me

chasing that fitness record Boss

Tom2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uDJc-3ODog

try some of these muscle ups

shows what you can do in a park with some basic equipment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqdad6w1zrs&NR=1



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1JqtbRPNps&feature=related
or some clapping pull ups

d'Oracle

Someone find me a video of Burpee Clapping Muscle-ups.

Captain Furball

Day 1: Military Press, Dips, Chins (3x10 @BW)
Day 2: Deadlift, Hanging Leg Raise
Day 3: Bench Press, Pull Ups (3x10 @BW), Face Pulls
Day 4: Squat, Ab Pull-down

You might find it hard to do chin ups after doing Military press and bar bell rows. My chin ups are deadly after just mil press and bb rows.Have you added them in yet?

BossArky

Captain Furball wrote: »

You might find it hard to do chin ups after doing Military press and bar bell rows. My chin ups are deadly after just mil press and bb rows.Have you added them in yet?

Yeah, I've been doing Chins after Military Press for the past 2 months. I find they compliment each other as the pushing muscles gets a break whilst the pulling ones are working.

I'm probably not going to bother with Barbell Rows based on the feedback here.

Hanley

I'd pick Pendlay rows ahead of barbell rows any day tbh...