A pint of Guinness. Strong opinions.

IronMan

I went for a few drinks last night. I ordered a couple of pints of Guinness. Has always been my default option if I'm not in the Porterhouse, Bull and Castle etc.

Warning - strong opinion ahead!

What a bland and watery drink it is. It is almost entirely lacking in flavour. It has been dumbed down to a drink that has even less taste than a pint of Heineken. It wasn't because of the skill of the barman or the run on the pipes or any of that malarkey that is thrown around about Guinness. I had pints in a few of the more famous Dublin Guinness pubs. Devoid of any real texture, it has no real creaminess. Or any the virtues associated with this beer. A bland generic, mass produced pint of almost nothing.

Which is a shame, because Stout is probably my favourite type of beer. A visit to the States will give you stouts that are full of aroma, they can be coffee like, sweet, bitter, fruity. They are dark, intensely flavoured complex beers. And I love them.



Rant over.

BeerNut

It's a crying shame that Foreign Extra isn't sold in pubs here, and that Special Export is pretty much unavailable: the two best Guinness beers and you just can't have them on a night out.

Go for the bottled Guinness if you can find it -- always ask -- but beyond that, if Guinness isn't doing it for you stoutwise, go somewhere that sells the alternatives.

slayerking

The thing that annoys me is when you say anything bad about Guinness, people look at you like you've just slagged their mother or something, like its the perfect drink, like its special or something! Or when you say Guinness is quite a thin stout, people are shocked!!

TBH its not that bad though, bottled Guinness is actually quite nice, its just a little bit watery and boring but its ok. I'd drink it ahead of the rest of the piss available!

But it is a shame that Foreign Extra isnt available in pubs here.
Or in a perfect world.... bottled O'Haras stout!!

civildefence

A shorter flow from the keg to the tap (ie keg under counter) always tastes much better. This is not a myth, this is a fact.

Fallen Buckshot

eh ? wot ya mean ? ya dont pour it down ya fckin gob ?

Rented Mule

You get cheated on the Heineken sold in Ireland as well. The beer exported to the States is a comepletely different animal to what is sold in Ireland (and the rest of Europe from what I can gather).

oblivious

Rented Mule wrote: »

You get cheated on the Heineken sold in Ireland as well. The beer exported to the States is a comepletely different animal to what is sold in Ireland (and the rest of Europe from what I can gather).

It's an extract of the roasted barley they export not the beer its self.

A pint bottle of Guniness is some times the best alternative, that if you can find it

the beer revolu

Agree completely with the OP.
It's all very well, when at home, frequenting pubs that sell alternatives of your choosing but what about when travelling about the country?

Was in Portmagee in Kerry recently. Asked the barman for a pint bottle of Guinness - not only did he not have it, he'd never heard of it!!:eek:

Tried the only other pub in Portmagee and they didn't have it either.

Was left drinking sad ole pints of Guinness.
The upside of this was that it was easy to turn in early after a few pints for my early start the next day!! No taste of more.

BeerNut

civildefence wrote: »

This is not a myth, this is a fact.

And one that's conveniently unprovable. I've drank many a Guinness at events with mobile bars where the keg is directly under the tap. There's no appreciable gain in quality. But you'll never know without a blind tasting.

thorpe

If you can get it O'Haras Stout bottled or kegged in my opinion the best stout out there since Heineken took over brewing Beamish, which was the best.

oblivious

thorpe wrote: »

If you can get it O'Haras Stout bottled or kegged in my opinion the best stout out there.

Yep also available in from Cask in the bull and castle Dublin

grenache

Agree completely with OP. The first time i drank it i thought to myself i cant believe this is the favoured pint of so many Irish drinkers. I've had Guinness several times since and still think its tasteless watery muck. I'm only an occasional stout drinker, and Murphys is only so good, but give me a pint of that over Guinness any day. Sad thing is this watery $hite is considered our national drink

MattKane

I stick to murphs and beamish, but it's not the first time I've heard that from regular stout drinkers (referring to the original rant).

With such a huge market to please, it's got to be commercially styled and accessible to almost everyone (even though it pisses off the odd die hard stout drinker).

Next time I'm at the pub I'll be ordering a Guinness to test it out

BeerNut

MattKane wrote: »

Next time I'm at the pub I'll be ordering a Guinness to test it out

But if you really want to test it out, go blind.
/broken record

MattKane

BeerNut wrote: »

But if you really want to test it out, go blind.
/broken record

That looks like great fun. Have done it with wine before and it's a tough test. Must try it with stout next time...

irish_goat

Rented Mule wrote: »

You get cheated on the Heineken sold in Ireland as well. The beer exported to the States is a comepletely different animal to what is sold in Ireland (and the rest of Europe from what I can gather).

Our Heineken is made in Cork ya see.

BeerNut

irish_goat wrote: »

Our Heineken is made in Cork ya see.

Only the draught. The cans and bottles are brewed in the Netherlands, but diluted to the special low strength for Ireland.

Johnny Drama.

Give me a pint of guinness any day over Cider & Lager

shanel23

I dunno - as long as it's not that extra cold stuff I quite like Guinness - like the pint bottles too

the beer revolu

Johnny Drama. wrote: »

Give me a pint of guinness any day over Cider & Lager

I agree.
Doesn't make Guinness any good, though, just better than mainstream lager and cider!

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

I agree.

Jaysus I don't. I'm just thinking "you're drinking the wrong ciders and lagers, as well as the wrong stout".

Get some Salvator, some Edelstoff, some Schlenkerla, some Brooklyn, some Schiehallion into you before dissing lager in one fell swoop.

rubadub

slayerking wrote: »

The thing that annoys me is when you say anything bad about Guinness, people look at you like you've just slagged their mother or something, like its the perfect drink, like its special or something!:confused

Yes, it is held up as the ideal stout that all others should be compared against but could NEVER equal. I have said before I reckon if beamish was the same price as guinness it might sell more, it has a name/tag associated as a cheap imitation. I remember a few times getting pints of beamish and the lads in shock saying "WTF, you know theres guinness here!?!", and many think beamish drinkers only drink it since they are stingy, so I imagine many do not want to be labelled as such.

Coke has a similar sort of label of being "the one & only" that all others should bow down before and try to imitate, as though nothing could compare to it- same with heinz ketchup.

BeerNut wrote: »

Jaysus I don't. I'm just thinking "you're drinking the wrong ciders and lagers, as well as the wrong stout".

I think they are saying its the best choice in a run of the mill pub which only has the mainstream lagers. I noticed an erdinger on the table of my local on the way out a week or so ago, I was delighted to see this so next day asked if they had budvar or erdinger -barman said none, I said I had seen it -turns out they only got in N/A erdinger :mad:

BeerNut

rubadub wrote: »

I think they are saying its the best choice in a run of the mill pub which only has the mainstream lagers.

Right. I'm not used to notions that the rubbish served up in most Irish pubs is somehow representative of what beer is. It's like judging world cuisine based on the menu of a burger van.

guildofevil

BeerNut wrote: »

Right. I'm not used to notions that the rubbish served up in most Irish pubs is somehow representative of what beer is. It's like judging world cuisine based on the menu of a burger van.

Brilliant!

Oh, I'm stealing that one!

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

Jaysus I don't. I'm just thinking "you're drinking the wrong ciders and lagers, as well as the wrong stout".

Get some Salvator, some Edelstoff, some Schlenkerla, some Brooklyn, some Schiehallion into you before dissing lager in one fell swoop.

Edelstoff is my favourite lager.
But we are talking about places that sell draught Guinness here.
Little though I like it, a pint of Guinness is about all I would drink in your average pub (there being no pint bottles of Guinness in the average pub-nor Beamish outside of Cork which is a little better but still rather bland)

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

Right. I'm not used to notions that the rubbish served up in most Irish pubs is somehow representative of what beer is. It's like judging world cuisine based on the menu of a burger van.

Nobody said that it was representative of what beer is.
Just representative of beer in most Irish pubs!

rubadub

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0907/breaking3.htm

Coca-Cola is the biggest selling brand in Irish shopping baskets, it was revealed today....

In the alcohol section, Budweiser remains in the number one position, followed Smirnoff, Heineken, Bulmers and Guinness. The top-selling wine in Ireland was Wolf Blass, while Smirnoff was the top selling spirit.

I'm surprised guinness is so low down. Seeing as guinness is the stout and bulmers is the cider in most pubs I would have thought both would be higher up. I know very few bud drinkers and with the wider selection of lagers or "non-stout" beers that bud would be a lower seller than guinness.

Though it does say shopping baskets, and bud & heineken are both often "€1 bottle" beers now, while it is rare to get a good deal on guinness or bulmers from the offie.

BeerNut

This is off-trade only. There's the discount lager issue for one thing, as you say, but there's also the fact that Guinness is very much an on-trade product. Sure 'tis only in a pub, at the hands of a skilled barman, that you get proper Guinness. I'd guess there are lots of Guinness drinkers who'll buy lager in the off licence because they associate Guinness directly with the draught product and regard the cans as something lesser, bizarre and all that that is.

BaZmO*

IronMan wrote: »

I went for a few drinks last night. I ordered a couple of pints of Guinness. Has always been my default option if I'm not in the Porterhouse, Bull and Castle etc.

Warning - strong opinion ahead!

What a bland and watery drink it is. It is almost entirely lacking in flavour. It has been dumbed down to a drink that has even less taste than a pint of Heineken. It wasn't because of the skill of the barman or the run on the pipes or any of that malarkey that is thrown around about Guinness. I had pints in a few of the more famous Dublin Guinness pubs. Devoid of any real texture, it has no real creaminess. Or any the virtues associated with this beer. A bland generic, mass produced pint of almost nothing.

Which is a shame, because Stout is probably my favourite type of beer. A visit to the States will give you stouts that are full of aroma, they can be coffee like, sweet, bitter, fruity. They are dark, intensely flavoured complex beers. And I love them.



Rant over.

That is so mad. I was out the other night with the OH, and decided to have a Guinness. I was totally shocked at how bland and tasteless it was. Really really unappealing. Normally when I'm out I have two pints and then it puts me in the humour for a few more but I wasn't bothered this time, just went home instead.

I used to drink it all the time, but in the last couple of years I've been drinking all types of beer instead. Maybe my tastebuds have changed or maybe the Guinness has changed, but either way I don't think I'll be drinking it in the future. Pity, as I used to love it.

thorpe

BeerNut wrote: »

Only the draught. The cans and bottles are brewed in the Netherlands, but diluted to the special low strength for Ireland.

Along with our Coors Light can and bottle plus our Miller Genuine Draft.
Our budweiser is bottle and canned in Belfast along with our Carlsberg.

noby

Less of this 'our' business please.

mayordenis

noby wrote: »

Less of this 'our' business please.

Why? people are speaking about the versions of these beers made in this country.
It's not anybody being xenophobic.
But people are simply discussing "our" versions of said beershiz.

rubadub

BeerNut wrote: »

This is off-trade only. There's the discount lager issue for one thing, as you say, but there's also the fact that Guinness is very much an on-trade product. Sure 'tis only in a pub, at the hands of a skilled barman, that you get proper Guinness. I'd guess there are lots of Guinness drinkers who'll buy lager in the off licence because they associate Guinness directly with the draught product and regard the cans as something lesser, bizarre and all that that is.

I have guinness in most pubs if they have no decent bottled or draught beers. I would not drink it at home as it is just too expensive, I would sooner buy other beers if I was going to pay that premium, and most guinness drinkers I know would feel the same. I have heard many remark about it being one of the cheapest pints in the pub and dearest at home, and most would prefer a draught pint over the can with widget.

Since it is off-trade only I am actually surprised guinness are in the top 5. I would have thought one of big cheap brands might have beaten it, like stella. hollandia, tuborg, dutch gold etc. In the likes of O'Briens you will see massive pallets of these and only small sections for guinness.

I'd be interested in seeing the full 100 list of brands.

ManFromAtlantis

op.........never really thought about it but now that you bring it up..........you have a point.
ur the first to say the emperor has no clothes so to speak.!

noby

mayordenis wrote: »

Why? people are speaking about the versions of these beers made in this country.
It's not anybody being xenophobic.
But people are simply discussing "our" versions of said beershiz.

Er, I know. It was meant as a tongue-in-cheek remark. I forgot the tongue-in-cheek smiley.

bazwaldo

Something over the past 10 years has changed in draught Guinness in my opinion. 20 years ago when I started drinking the stuff, the quality of the pint ranged hugely. You could get some awful pints in some pubs but also some beautiful ones.

However, it must be at least 5 years since I've found a great pint. It seems that most pubs serve up much the same quality. It lacks that sweetness and flavour of a great pint.

I don't think that I've wearing rose tinted glasses remembering the good ol nights out by this. I reckon its all the Guinness quality control ensuring the pints are reasonably good across the board but have killed off the great pint. It could also be that the ingredients have cheapened too.

Anyone else agree?

rubadub

bazwaldo wrote: »

I don't think that I've wearing rose tinted glasses remembering the good ol nights out by this.

I would say the same too. I remember when going into a pub the lads would always be asking whoever was there first "so whats the guinness like", and there would be varying responses, it is rare I am asked now at all, and when I am it surprises me as it is always very similar. I would now be asked about as much as I hear others asking my mates "whats the heineken like".

bazwaldo

rubadub wrote: »

"so whats the guinness like"

And the answer is either "Not bad" or "Ahhh, its alright".

I long for the day when I can find a pint where you can lower back a good few and the last tastes as good as the first. As it does with a really good pint.

Mulligans used to be a dead cert for a really nice pint and thats the only place I frequent with any regularity. Pint tastes the same there as anywhere else though now.

The Hut in Phibsboro too but I haven't been there in years. And Kennedys in Drumcondra. Have to try them out again. Man, I'm feeling thristy now :P

Red Sleeping Beauty

BeerNut wrote: »

It's a crying shame that Foreign Extra isn't sold in pubs here, and that Special Export is pretty much unavailable: the two best Guinness beers and you just can't have them on a night out.

Go for the bottled Guinness if you can find it -- always ask -- but beyond that, if Guinness isn't doing it for you stoutwise, go somewhere that sells the alternatives.

I could've sworn I saw some bottles of Foreign Extra in a pub in town. Could've been seeing things.

I really like it but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay more to drink it in a pub compared to the cost from an offie. What would it be ? €5+ ? Feck that!

Bottled Guinness is nice though. My local GAA club has the large bottles for around the same price of a pint I think. Still don't like buying bottles in a pub though.

BeerNut wrote: »

But if you really want to test it out, go blind.
/broken record

That O'Neills mustbe the only pub in the country aside from Porterhouse that has 4 different Irish stouts is it ?

BeerNut wrote: »

This is off-trade only. There's the discount lager issue for one thing, as you say, but there's also the fact that Guinness is very much an on-trade product. Sure 'tis only in a pub, at the hands of a skilled barman, that you get proper Guinness. I'd guess there are lots of Guinness drinkers who'll buy lager in the off licence because they associate Guinness directly with the draught product and regard the cans as something lesser, bizarre and all that that is.

I see the bottled "extra stout" or original or whatever it is as an offie-only drink and I wouldn't pay extra for it just for the benefit of being able to drink it in a bar. Guinness draught cans are there if you want to drink Guinness outside the pub. They do a grand job at replicating it I suppose.



Could you do a draught on the Foreign Extra ? Stick it in a can ? On tap with nitro ? or just cask ?

Any word on an O'Hara's stout in a draught can ?

Red Sleeping Beauty

bazwaldo wrote: »

However, it must be at least 5 years since I've found a great pint. It seems that most pubs serve up much the same quality. It lacks that sweetness and flavour of a great pint.

I don't think that I've wearing rose tinted glasses remembering the good ol nights out by this. I reckon its all the Guinness quality control ensuring the pints are reasonably good across the board but have killed off the great pint. It could also be that the ingredients have cheapened too.

I don't think that mythical "Great" pint exists to be honest.

BeerNut

Alan Rouge wrote: »

That O'Neills mustbe the only pub in the country aside from Porterhouse that has 4 different Irish stouts is it ?

Not a clue. It's the only one I know of with four on nitro.

Alan Rouge wrote: »

They do a grand job at replicating it I suppose.

My point exactly. Yet pub drinkers of nitro Guinness will tend to pick something else in the off licence.

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Could you do a draught on the Foreign Extra ? Stick it in a can ? On tap with nitro ? or just cask ?

You could do any of those.

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Any word on an O'Hara's stout in a draught can ?

I certainly hope not. The draught nitro is enough of a waste of flavoursome beer.

mloc

Guinness too watery?

http://www.brewdog.com/tokyo.php

Give that a go. Just one though.

MattKane

mloc wrote: »

Guinness too watery?

http://www.brewdog.com/tokyo.php

Give that a go. Just one though.

No way! 18.2% abv! :eek:

BeerNut

MattKane wrote: »

No way! 18.2% abv! :eek:

It's only slightly stronger than some of the stuff you sell, Matt, and comes in a smaller bottle. Why the surprise?

MattKane

BeerNut wrote: »

It's only slightly stronger than some of the stuff you sell, Matt, and comes in a smaller bottle. Why the surprise?

If I drank my wine like I drink my beer (by the pint), I'd be in trouble - this one, however, is a sipper!

If I ever get my hands on something like this, I'll definitely do a video tasting. Rocket fuel.

BeerNut

MattKane wrote: »

Rocket fuel.

This is no more rocket fuel than sherry. It's considerably lower octane than whiskey.

The 330ml bottle with a £10 price tag should be the indicator that you're no more supposed to treat this like a low-strength beer than you're supposed to treat brandy like Bordeaux.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Did anyone see the state of Dublin city this evening ? That silly marketing advertisement worked - it got a shitload of people into pubs at 6pm! There was people walking around with pints in their hands. Tut tut.

I was going to go to Bull & Castle and get an O'Hara's stout and shout "To O'Hara" but then realised it'd probably be as mental as everywhere else as they serve Guinness too.

oblivious

Alan Rouge wrote: »

I was going to go to Bull & Castle and get an O'Hara's stout and shout "To O'Hara" but then realised it'd probably be as mental as everywhere else as they serve Guinness too.

Not up stairs I believe

noby

Alan Rouge wrote: »

I was going to go to Bull & Castle and get an O'Hara's stout and shout "To O'Hara"

Even doing that would be going some way to submitting to the marketing.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Yeah you're probably right. "To Galway Hookers" would've been better.

aDeener

bazwaldo wrote: »

And the answer is either "Not bad" or "Ahhh, its alright".

I long for the day when I can find a pint where you can lower back a good few and the last tastes as good as the first. As it does with a really good pint.

Mulligans used to be a dead cert for a really nice pint and thats the only place I frequent with any regularity. Pint tastes the same there as anywhere else though now.

The Hut in Phibsboro too but I haven't been there in years. And Kennedys in Drumcondra. Have to try them out again. Man, I'm feeling thristy now :P

you sir need to take a trip to Kavanagh's Gravedigger in Glasnevin. After being there, you would drink nowhere or nothing else