Cowen on Late Late

tlev

Exactly. Cowan is still a bumbling bumbler of a buffoon, just because he is slightly less inept than the others doesnt make him good. And that is the very sad fact we have to face, there seems to be no one in the country who can at least inspire some from of action and positive thinking, Im not saying one man/woman can turn it around but some action would be nice for a change.
Irish politicians are so far out of their depth that it isnt even funny anymore. I say the more power we give to the EU the better because watching this lot slowly tighten the noose around the country is unbearable.

sceptre

Cuchulain wrote: »

I gaurantee that this country would be in a worse state if FG/Enda "The Plank" Kenny was in power.

You can't guarantee anything of the sort, just like no-one else can guarantee the opposite. You can have a strong feeling or strong opinion, sure, but a guarantee? No. Nothing grounded in hard fact and evidence as it's something that neither you nor anyone else can actually know. Or guarantee.

yoshytoshy

The best thing about voting the current government out of office.
They have to take their bags with them and the new government can start from scratch ,like the rest of the world is doing.

ninty9er

yoshytoshy wrote: »

The best thing about voting the current government out of office.
They have to take their bags with them and the new government can start from scratch ,like the rest of the world is doing.

I think you'll find that every government has to start from where the last one left off. Even the lads in 1922 had to start with the situation the Brits left.

Don't kid yourself.

yoshytoshy

I wasn't kidding ,any new government in Ireland has no commitments to existing promises made by the current government.

We choose what slate we want and the goverment does the rest.

nesf

yoshytoshy wrote: »

I wasn't kidding ,any new government in Ireland has no commitments to existing promises made by the current government.

We choose what slate we want and the goverment does the rest.

Sure but it can't reverse all the legislation passed by the previous Government for free. Which is what ninety9er was getting at I think.

thebman

Cuchulain wrote: »

Ok so you all think that Cowen is a bumbling buffoon that is incapable of being a good leader. Does this automatically make Kenny a better leader?
I know that Cowen has his flaws but out of all the party leaders (other than Gilmore) he would make the best taoiseach.

I gaurantee that this country would be in a worse state if FG/Enda "The Plank" Kenny was in power.

That argument went out the window the second it became apparent that the current government had brought to the country to the point of bankruptcy.

No longer can FF say that FG can't do as good a job because its hard to believe anyone could do as bad a job as FF have been doing for the past year.

You can keep saying it of course but I don't think anyone will believe you.

nesf

thebman wrote: »

That argument went out the window the second it became apparent that the current government had brought to the country to the point of bankruptcy.

No longer can FF say that FG can't do as good a job because its hard to believe anyone could do as bad a job as FF have been doing for the past year.

You can keep saying it of course but I don't think anyone will believe you.

Actually, over the last year it'd be hard to see where FG could have done a dramatically better job.

It's over the latter boom years that one could imagine a more prudent FG not pushing up expenditure by as much, though from their election promises this didn't seem very likely.

Cuchulain

Villain wrote: »

"I'm not as bad as the other fella so you might as well leave me in charge."

What a great argument

Well please tell me what are the alternatives? Vote in FG and plunge the country further into recession? So you are saying that you would rather have Kenny as taoiseach instead of Cowan?

Villain

Cuchulain wrote: »

Well please tell me what are the alternatives? Vote in FG and plunge the country further into recession? So you are saying that you would rather have Kenny as taoiseach instead of Cowan?

I actually would rather Leave FF in power, they created the mess they should be the ones to clean it up, it would be far too easy for them to sit on the opposition side of the house, with their big Minister pensions and all the expenses they have raped the country of over the past 10 or so years and throw abuse across the floor.

The longer FF stay in power the longer it will take the party to recover, I don't like Kenny and I hope that R Bruton will be the next leader, I certainly have no love of FG but leaving any one party in for that long causes the type of problems we have seen. Cowen's so called apology on the Late Late showed all that is wrong with him and FF imo

freewheeler

FeistyOneYouAre wrote: »

The fact actually is that the current government were voted in by the people of Ireland. And before that it was Fianna Fail and before that it was Fianna Fail so its not as if no one knew what they were about. There was no threads on this 6 years ago calling the government on its decisions.

So then what deficiency do we have as a nation that these pathetic excuse for a party keep getting re-elected? apart from the fact that a lot of their supporters are either ignorant or else simply dont care that their government are a bunch of corrupt,inept,losers and simply vote for them because their daddies did?

luckat

It's worrying when the obvious question to ask a leader of a country is whether he has a drink problem.

darc

irish_bob wrote: »

spoken like a true fianna fail,r , dismiss fine gael as having put forward no policy suggestions ( despite them being the only ones who have ) and praise labour for having done so ( courting for next goverment as no other party has numbers ) despite the fact that labour have not proposed a single proposal other than populist grandstanding about taxing the super rich

I dismiss Fine Gael as they I believe simply do not provide an alternative option.

As for you comment saying its spoken as a true FF - my politics are probably the most independent you can possibly get as I vote for the person not the party and in the past have supported quality FG td's such as Gay Mitchel & Alan Shatter, also Labour, Eithne Fitgerald & FF in Seamus Brennan & Tom Kitt. In more recent years in the Kildare south, I have supported Greens, FF & Lab, but not FG as their candidate simply did not have the experience required for the job. And in recent local elections it was as simple as anyone EXCEPT Pat Black (FF) because I dispise his style of bulsh1t politics.

Liklewise if it was a choice between Bertie Ahern & Brian Cowen - It would be Brian Cowen by a mile due to his intellect rather than happy go larry bertie.

Raiser

Did anyone else notice at the start that Ryan needed no prompting to know exactly where Biffo was hiding out for his holidays?

- Bet Ryan was spotted nipping into the Pharmacy on Ballyconneely's main street for a tube of KY Jelly :eek:

peasant

Taoiseach upset at Late Late ‘mugging’
RTE executive admits Tubridy did not give Taoiseach time to answer

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/taoiseach-upset-at-late-late-lsquomuggingrsquo-1879660.html

Although that headline seems to be a bit misleading.

Reading the article, it seems Biffo is keen not to play this up, it's just the usual supects in his support camp doing the whinging and complaining.

jimmmy

deadhead13 wrote: »

When you factor in the difference in population of these countries, there is only one conclusion, Brian Cowen is grossly overpaid.

Why did Tubridy not question how come our Taoiseach is paid more than Obama , the pm of the UK, France or Germany. If we are to get out of this mess, leadership should come from the top....the very top. And why was he not asked what was he going to do about our public service being the highest paid in the known world ? The interview was soft on Cowen. People wanted answers on the state of the country / what will be done etc, not to know about that Westlife fellows marital problems / bitching about his ex wife.

Sizzler

jimmmy wrote: »

Why did Tubridy not question how come our Taoiseach is paid more than Obama , the pm of the UK, France or Germany. If we are to get out of this mess, leadership should come from the top....the very top. And why was he not asked what was he going to do about our public service being the highest paid in the known world ? The interview was soft on Cowen. People wanted answers on the state of the country / what will be done etc, not to know about that Westlife fellows marital problems / bitching about his ex wife.

It was a ridiculous interview really, he scribbled out 10 questions and couldnt wait to get them out of his mouth without any type of discussion or follow up. It was akin to a fighter letting someone get up off the canvas after one or two decent punches. A lot of media saying it was a "terrible" way to treat An Taoiseach. Bollox to that, if he cant answer a few difficult questions than he's WAY out his depth. To be honest, not even difficult questions, honest to goodness practical questions that most folk want to see asked AND answered. Tubridy was plainly not the man to do it. Perhaps he was restricted somewhat, I mean what were they going to do? Sack him :rolleyes:

Cowan didnt come out of it with any credibility as a leader to be honest and didnt demonstrate once exactly WTF he is doing to sort out the current culture of government. Most of his questions were rehearsed politcal frontline rhetoric at best.

He was asked about O'Donoughues expenses and all he could say was that wont happen again. Thats great Brian, now would you care to explain in any circumstances why such a laissez faire attiude was taken by a member of govt regarding public expenditure? Is he going to be reprimanded? Whats the recourse here? Why would anybody EVER think such indulgence would ever be acceptable regardless of the countries fiscal position? Why are we only hearing about this now? If the country was a business the place would have auditors writing a thesis on each column of expenditure in terms of reckless corporate governance.

I for one am sick of the "wait till its f**ked before we even think about fixing it" style of leadership / management. We are seeing it with the governement, the banks, Aer Lingus, we saw it with FAS and various other organisations across the country over the last year. What are these people doing FFS? If you can't keep your eye on the ball on a daily basis then you arent fit for the job, end of story. Cowan in particular is inextricably cuplable in our current circumstance.

deadhead13

jimmmy wrote: »

Why did Tubridy not question how come our Taoiseach is paid more than Obama , the pm of the UK, France or Germany. If we are to get out of this mess, leadership should come from the top....the very top. And why was he not asked what was he going to do about our public service being the highest paid in the known world ? The interview was soft on Cowen. People wanted answers on the state of the country / what will be done etc, not to know about that Westlife fellows marital problems / bitching about his ex wife.

I think anyone in RTE asking this question would be on very shaky ground. I don't know offhand, but does Tubridy earn more than Cowen?

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

Think again

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/01/the-10-highest-paid-polit_n_182003.html

All of them members of the Government of Singapore!

Have you ever been to Singapore ?
They have a proper economy, have companies that are world leaders in their fields, built an economy from nothing.
Their harbour is one of the largest in the world and handles traffic for big chunk of South East Asia.
They have one of the largest financial centres in Asia.
They have managed to create and keep together a country made up of a diverse mixture of ethnic groups and religions, all 4.8 million squashed together in a very small geographical space.

Singapore is one of the wealthiest countries in the world in terms of GDP (PPP) per capita.
They had huge foreign reserves (€150 billion plus) and they have tapped into these this year for the first time ever.
AFAIK they want to help their export earning industries through the recessionary times.
A bit different to us tapping into our measly reserves (AFAIK circa €18 billion) in comparison to help bankers and developers.
Sinagpores economy expanded by over 1% in 2008, even though ar** fell out of the market for lots of it's consumer goods and the financial markets entered freefall.
Their government are worth their money unlike the clowens belonging to your party. :mad:

Cuchulain wrote: »

Ok so you all think that Cowen is a bumbling buffoon that is incapable of being a good leader. Does this automatically make Kenny a better leader?
I know that Cowen has his flaws but out of all the party leaders (other than Gilmore) he would make the best taoiseach.
...

Well he is the f**king taoiseach and it isn't a case of would he or wouldn't make a good taoiseach.
He isn't doing it.
According to 80% odd of the country he isn't doing his job very well.

Cuchulain wrote: »

I gaurantee that this country would be in a worse state if FG/Enda "The Plank" Kenny was in power.

Ah yes, the last retort by the soldiers of dysentery. :rolleyes:
The others might be worse, the devil you know is better than ...

ninty9er wrote: »

I think you'll find that every government has to start from where the last one left off. Even the lads in 1922 had to start with the situation the Brits left.

Don't kid yourself.

I am ever so glad you have issued this statement.
It wil be handy to fire back at you when you start spouting about the tough decisions that the next government, probably made up of FG/Lab, wiull have to make in the years ahead.

Afteral they will only be working through the mess that your party has left them :rolleyes:

Ah ninety99er you are out of practice

Cuchulain wrote: »

Well please tell me what are the alternatives? Vote in FG and plunge the country further into recession? So you are saying that you would rather have Kenny as taoiseach instead of Cowan?

YES !!!!
What part of that do you not understand ?

darc

jimmmy wrote: »

Why did Tubridy not question how come our Taoiseach is paid more than Obama , the pm of the UK, France or Germany..

He's not!

Has anyone who comes up with this statement ever thought of investigating the claim instead of believing the tabloid comment?

The pm's of UK, France & USA have their (and their family's) entire day to day expenditure paid by the state including their holidays, food, travel (personal & business) & residence right down to their water charges & waste charges.

In Ireland, the Taoiseach gets paid very well, but apart from expenses incurred as part of the position, normal day to day living expenditure comes from that salary.

Also UK, French & USA leaders have a slight adavantage that their after dinner speaking careers will be very lucrative when they leave office.

jmayo

darc wrote: »

He's not!

Has anyone who comes up with this statement ever thought of investigating the claim instead of believing the tabloid comment?

The pm's of UK, France & USA have their (and their family's) entire day to day expenditure paid by the state including their holidays, food, travel (personal & business) & residence right down to their water charges & waste charges.

In Ireland, the Taoiseach gets paid very well, but apart from expenses incurred as part of the position, normal day to day living expenditure comes from that salary.

Also UK, French & USA leaders have a slight adavantage that their after dinner speaking careers will be very lucrative when they leave office.

FFS we are tiny country with a small economy in the grands scheme of things and when you compare our PM to that of countries with a comparable population (e.g New Zeland, Finland), our PM is vastly overpaid.
That doesn't even take into account he is far more inept. :rolleyes:

FFS stop comparing us to three huge countries with major economies, with much bigger populations and with major foreign policy involvement including the odd spot of war.

And Darc have you figured into your little excuse for biffos salary that there are probably a good few people around the world that would definetly want to kill the PM of the UK and President of the USA.
Thus they and their families are guarded, have their entire lives taken over and thus would have that expense paid for by the state.

And that is not even mentioning the thousands in the US itself that would want to kill the current incumbent. :rolleyes:

The possible plus of getting speaking engagments or a book deal in the future is not usually counted as a reason for not getting good current salary ?
Not in the real world, but maybe in your excuse world.

deadhead13

darc wrote: »

He's not!

Well the Government itself doesn't seem to agree with you. They have sent the Board of Remuneration out to find out what Prime Ministers, Ministers and top civil servants earn in similar size countries. The idea being, to bring Ireland into line with them. They are taking an inordinate amount of time coming back with it's finding, but I suspect we will get a "we feel your pain gesture" in the budget. And I'm sure The Sunday World could always find a place for Brian Cowen when he steps down.

amacca

jmayo wrote: »

Darc have you figured into your little excuse for biffos salary that there are probably a good few people around the world that would definetly want to kill the PM of the UK and President of the USA.

While I agree with some of your post, are you suggesting that quite a lot of people don't want to kill Cowen?:D

Posts on here over the last few months would suggest otherwise.

If the job renumeration includes danger money then perhaps he will be entitled to a raise in the future? or at least an allowance for a flak jacket and armour plating on the auld state car.

seancoistine

Tubridy asked him to apologise for the mess we are in etc. The answer was "I took the best advice available". Let me guess where he got it, the Galway tent, the executive boxes owned by the banks at Croake Park, or maybe he was with Bertie the day he was betting on the horses.

darc

jmayo wrote: »

FFS we are tiny country with a small economy in the grands scheme of things and when you compare our PM to that of countries with a comparable population (e.g New Zeland, Finland), our PM is vastly overpaid.
That doesn't even take into account he is far more inept. :rolleyes:

FFS stop comparing us to three huge countries with major economies, with much bigger populations and with major foreign policy involvement including the odd spot of war.

And Darc have you figured into your little excuse for biffos salary that there are probably a good few people around the world that would definetly want to kill the PM of the UK and President of the USA.
Thus they and their families are guarded, have their entire lives taken over and thus would have that expense paid for by the state.

And that is not even mentioning the thousands in the US itself that would want to kill the current incumbent. :rolleyes:

The possible plus of getting speaking engagments or a book deal in the future is not usually counted as a reason for not getting good current salary ?
Not in the real world, but maybe in your excuse world.

I don't see anywhere in my post that suggest I support the salary that he is on. I just get pissed off with people who do no research of their own and spurt out the utter sh1te that tabl;oid make up in their offices.

Irish polticians are over paid, they have a far too lenient expense regime, a ridiculously high pension system, there are far too many of them from TD's down to village councillors. But the probelm is once anyone mentions cutting out x number of td's / councillors / senators then the exact same mob that complain about taxes etc complain that they are losing representation. e.g. cut the numbers but not my those representing my area.

In terms of pension for the whole civil servcie, I would continue with as is, but have a cap at approx €75,000, so if you earned €200k as a minister / higher civil servant, your pension would be capped at €75k and be pro rata to the number of years you have been a representative with 20 years providing you with the maximum benefit.

jimmmy

darc wrote: »

In terms of pension for the whole civil servcie, I would continue with as is, but have a cap at approx €75,000, so if you earned €200k as a minister / higher civil servant, your pension would be capped at €75k and be pro rata to the number of years you have been a representative with 20 years providing you with the maximum benefit.

FFS we have lost the run of ourselves in this country....why should we have tens of thousands of civil and public servants on pensions of 75k in this country....along with getting tax free " gratuities" of 112.5k plus when they retire ? The prime minister of New Zealand - a country of the same approximate population - is paid only the equivalent of 75 to 80 k euro during his working years as prime minister.

darc

jimmmy wrote: »

FFS we have lost the run of ourselves in this country....why should we have tens of thousands of civil and public servants on pensions of 75k in this country....along with getting tax free " gratuities" of 112.5k plus when they retire ? The prime minister of New Zealand - a country of the same approximate population - is paid only the equivalent of 75 to 80 k euro during his working years as prime minister.

why do all your statements start with FFS? Someone who does that immediately lacks credibility.

If you read what I said correctly, the €75k is a cap. The normal TD / senior civil servant would be at €50k. The very high earners would drop down to the 75k level and would only receive this if they had 20years service in that position.

Too many peoiple have the attitude of getting civil servants / politicians to drop to level where the quality in entrants into the field would drop dramatically and then we'd be back with brown envelope politics of the eighties.

btw - I very nearly went into politics (with FG when Fitzgerald was leader) but salary of a TD was £16,600 and it would take 10 - 12 years of hard slog to get there. At the time I was earning £12,000 + commission + company car selling sports goods and was less than 2 years out of school. I wonder why I did not choose politics??? - At least now it is an attractive area to get into and therefore the quality of majority people in politics (in all parties & excluding John O Donoghue) has jumped dramatically from the eighties.

darc

jimmmy wrote: »

The prime minister of New Zealand - a country of the same approximate population - is paid only the equivalent of 75 to 80 k euro during his working years as prime minister.

Research my lad....

New Zealand Parliament Pay Rates 2008

1.$393,000 – Prime Minister (1) + Clothing allowance of $19,700
2.$276,700 – Deputy Prime Minister (1)
3.$243,700 – Cabinet Ministers, Speaker, Opposition Leader (20)
4.$204,300 – Non Cabinet Ministers (8)
5.$180,400 – Senior Government Whip (1)
6.$176,900 – Minister without portfolios (0)
7.$176,170 – Labour Deputy Leader (1)
8.$176,100 – Labour Senior Whip (1)
9.$169,900 – Deputy Speaker (1)
10.$157,000 – Parliamentary Under Secretaries (0)
11.$155,900 – Green Party Leader – Eight MPs (1)
12.$146,900 – Green Party Whip (1)
13.$144,500 – Assistant Speakers, Progressive Party Leader, Maori Party Whip, ACT Whip, National and Labour Junior Whips (7)
14.$144,500 – Select Committee Chairs (14)
15.$135,300 – Select Committee Deputy Chairs (14)
16.$131,000 – All other MPs (51)

jmayo

darc wrote: »

I don't see anywhere in my post that suggest I support the salary that he is on. I just get pissed off with people who do no research of their own and spurt out the utter sh1te that tabl;oid make up in their offices.

No you do not come out explicitly and excuse his salary, but you do question how large it really is against the salaries (plus perks) that the leaders of USA, France and UK get.
Thus it appeared to me (and possibly to some other posters around here) that you are trying to play down how much Clowen is actaully getting in real terms.
Then you drag in possible speaking fees that these leaders may get in future.
Again you are trying to make it appear as if our leader is getting much lower than these other leaders, if you break it down over many years into the future.

To most people I would bet your post looked like an excuse for his large salary, unlike your susbequent post where you actaully acknowledged that him and the other Irish politicans are over paid.

Liam Byrne

darc wrote: »

Too many peoiple have the attitude of getting civil servants / politicians to drop to level where the quality in entrants into the field would drop dramatically

What ? Are you suggesting that it's actually possible for the current standards of politicians to DROP ???? :eek:

As Vincent Browne correctly said this morning, the argument is usually that "if you pay peanuts, you'll get monkeys"; but we HAVEN'T and AREN'T paying peanuts, and we still got the monkeys.