Transsexual Inmate wins Prison Transfer

procure11

Source:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/Transsexual-Inmate-Wins-High-Court-Case-Refusal-Of-Prison-Transfer-A-Human-Rights-Violation/Article/200909115374925?lpos=UK_News_Top_Stories_Header_3&lid=ARTICLE_15374925_Transsexual_Inmate_Wins_High_Court_Case%3A_Refusal_Of_Prison_Transfer_A_Human_Rights_Violation


While I understand the need for an open mind these days,this is certainly taking things too far.Considering the fact that the dude still has male organs and his criminal history ( convicted for manslaughter and attempted rape),what is the possibility that he would not commit crimes in his new prison.Sick if you ask me!

MelonieHead

The prisoner, who cannot be identified, is serving life for manslaughter and attempted rape committed when she was a man. Justice Secretary Jack Straw had ruled the inmate should continue to be held at a male prison.

But today London's High Court declared it was a breach of the prisoner's rights under the European Convention on Human Rights to deny her relocation.

Barrister for the inmate, Phillippa Kaufmann, told the court: "An indication has just been given to us that the transfer should be effective in a few weeks."

The prisoner's female sex has been recognised under the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and her birth certificate amended accordingly, the court heard. Aspects of the inmate's male sex have been altered - including the laser removal of facial and body hair and the development of breasts with hormone treatment.

She is however forbidden from wearing skirts or more than "subtle" make-up at the men's prison where she is being held on a "vulnerable prisoners" wing. The inmate has also been denied gender reassignment surgery while she is incarcerated at the men's prison.

As part of her evidence, the inmate said she would be a woman until the day she died. "No one can take my female status away from me," she said. "For me it is simply a reflection of how it should have been from the start."

She is serving an automatic "two strikes" life sentence for manslaughter "by reason of provocation of her male partner" in 2001. She was also convicted of the attempted rape of a woman five days after her release from her five-year manslaughter sentence.

Considering "he" was convicted of rape, "she" shouldn't be let loose in a women's prison.

Borneo Fnctn

I wouldn't have a problem with it if he got rid of the knob and bollox.

ScumLord

He can think he's a kangaroo but it doesn't change the fact his a man. Why does the state pander to this kind of thing in a criminal? Is he getting gender treatment in prison?

CAPTIAN CRAZY

he'd be a real hit with the lady's in the womens prison with a cock ,maybe he clever i'm in for life why not become a trany an transfer to the womens prison sexy with a different women every day when your locked up for life is a good idea no ?:D

batbaby

I would consider myself an open minded person....
But that's just WEIRD!!!

AND - Why should he be allowed such privilege?? Isn't he supposed to be being punished??!!

Poor Uncle Tom

jackpalance wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with it if he got rid of the knob and bollox.

and if the surgeon was a little 'extra generous' with the knife work, I wouldn't shed too many tears either.....

procure11

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

and if the surgeon was a little 'extra generous' with the knife work, I wouldn't shed too many tears either.....

That would solve the problem to be honest!

ChocolateSauce

She is legally and psychologically a woman, this was the right decision.

Blazer

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

She is legally and psychologically a woman, this was the right decision.

He's a murdering and raping scumbag. He lost all rights then as far as I'm concerned.:mad:
Let him rot in the prison until he's eligible for parole, then he can fcuk off and get his gender transfer completed.
Then I'll refer to her as a female scumbag.

dr.bollocko

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

She is legally and psychologically a woman, this was the right decision.

But... physically... still has a mickey? I thought to get the whole legally recognised as a woman the full gender re-assignment thingy had to be completed no? Not being ignorant but if the surgery isn't done then how is their status now female?

CAPTIAN CRAZY

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

She is legally and psychologically a woman, this was the right decision.

how can you be a true women with a cock ?

MelonieHead

CAPTIAN CRAZY wrote: »

how can you be a true women with a cock ?

<<Insert Lady Gaga reference>>

gurramok

dr.bollocko wrote: »

But... physically... still has a mickey? I thought to get the whole legally recognised as a woman the full gender re-assignment thingy had to be completed no? Not being ignorant but if the surgery isn't done then how is their status now female?

Read again.

She couldn't get the mickey cut off as she is incarcerated at the men's prison. The rules said she must be transferred to the womens before that is done.

CAPTIAN CRAZY wrote: »

how can you be a true women with a cock ?

I think its how the person behaves personality wise(the inside) in this case to be a woman. Everything is there to be that woman on the outside, just the last physical bit to be chopped off hence the case.

nibtrix

gurramok wrote: »

I think its how the person behaves personality wise(the inside) in this case to be a woman.

I think attempting to rape a woman five days after being released from prison suggests that his personality is not all woman...

irelandrover

When did he decide he wanted to be a woman? Pscologically I wouldnt even class it as human after attempted murder and attempted rape.

ChocolateSauce

Her legally recognised birth cert states she is a woman, hence she should be in a woman's prison. I don't make the rules, and I will respect the judgment of high court judges and qualified psychologists.

A person still has rights even if they are a prisoner, and saying they don't is a very dangerous position to take.

CAPTIAN CRAZY

gurramok wrote: »

Read again.

She couldn't get the mickey cut off as she is incarcerated at the men's prison. The rules said she must be transferred to the womens before that is done.


I think its how the person behaves personality wise(the inside) in this case to be a woman. Everything is there to be that woman on the outside, just the last physical bit to be chopped off hence the case.

ye but i could be all an act to get transfered to lady's jail would be hander time

Hangsangwich

its mad to think someone can be born a man, and then have their birth cert altered. Crazy law. Where reality is disregarded and is subservient to Political corectness

gurramok

nibtrix wrote: »

I think attempting to rape a woman five days after being released from prison suggests that his personality is not all woman...

Its a strange case alright. The other side of the coin, should a woman(transgendered) be incarcerated in a mens prison?

CAPTIAN CRAZY wrote: »

ye but i could be all an act to get transfered to lady's jail would be hander time

Its a serious life changing experience to go through. The person would of seen psychiatrists and psychologists to make sure they were not been fooled.

Tipsy Mac

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

She is legally and psychologically a woman, this was the right decision.

Perhaps but he's still a bloke, born a bloke die a bloke, no matter what mods someone gets they go as they came, end of.

ejmaztec

jackpalance wrote: »

I wouldn't have a problem with it if he got rid of the knob and bollox.

Shouldn't this be in the Tubridy/Cowen Late Late Show thread?

Blazer

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

A person still has rights even if they are a prisoner, and saying they don't is a very dangerous position to take.

That's the problem right there.
As far as I'm concerned someone that murders and rapes someone loses all rights straight away.
These days it's all about prisoner rights etc....what about the rights of the man he murdered? What about the rights of the woman he raped??

Prof.Badass

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

She is legally and psychologically a woman, this was the right decision.

Genetically speaking he is male. All the cells in his body are male. The fact that he's a murderer/rapist is irrelevant. Even with all the genital mutilation and hormone treatments in the world, he'll never be a woman.

ChocolateSauce

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Perhaps but he's still a bloke, born a bloke die a bloke, no matter what mods someone gets they go as they came, end of.

Sorry, but that isn't how it works.

As far as I'm concerned someone that murders and rapes someone loses all rights straight away.

Well fortunately in this case as far as the law is concerned, your opinion doesn't matter. The reason we have an impartial justice system to facilitate social harmony, not to appease the arbitrary feelings of people. Criminals may lose their civil rights, but their human rights are invoidable.

Genetically speaking he is male. All the cells in his body are male. The fact that he's a murderer/rapist is irrelevant. Even with all the genital mutilation and hormone treatments in the world, he'll never be a woman.

Tell that to people who have been successfully and legally living for years as the opposite gender to which their bodies conformed at birth.

Prof.Badass

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Tell that to people who have been successfully and legally living for years as the opposite gender to which their bodies conformed at birth.

They have not been succesfully been living as the opposite gender because they are NOT the opposite gender. As for legality, the law is an ass, everyone knows that.

It seems obvious to me that classifying cetain mindsets/behaviours as male/female is 1000 times less politically correct than insisting on refering to someone by the gender they are.

ChocolateSauce

vinylmesh wrote: »

they are NOT the opposite gender

Yes, they are. You clearly don't understand the topic at hand. That's somewhat understandable; it's counter-intuitive and takes a bit of reading into it and also an understanding of human biology, psychology and sociology. I suggest you do this reading.

gurramok

vinylmesh wrote: »

They have not been succesfully been living as the opposite gender because they are NOT the opposite gender. As for legality, the law is an ass, everyone knows that.

It seems obvious to me that classifying cetain mindsets/behaviours as male/female is 1000 times less politically correct than insisting on refering to someone by the gender they are.

Its funny that the biology profession disagrees with you and so do the psychology/psychiatrists!

How is your opinion better than scientists?

BnA

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

....Tell that to people who have been successfully and legally living for years as the opposite gender to which their bodies conformed at birth.

No they haven't.

The had a few operations, changed their name, changed their birth cert, took a few hormones and then stuck on a Gúna and told the world they are now a woman.

Sorry bud.... You're not. You're a man in a dress. Nothing more.

Now, I have no problem with it. Whatever someone wants to do to thier body/wear/call themselves is none of my business and no skin off my nose. And if they are happy with it, then more power to them.

All I'm just sain', you ain't foolin' anyone but yourself.

Prof.Badass

gurramok wrote: »

Its funny that the biology profession disagrees with you and so do the psychology/psychiatrists!

How is your opinion better than scientists?

Strange. I could have sworn that biologists defined gender by genetics. Maybe all those lecturers were lying to me .

The way i see it, if you have a Y chromosone you are male. If you don't you are female. If you have an intersex condition it is more complex and i would refer to you as intersex.

To automatically associate certain traits/ behaviour with gender is incredibly un-pc. Why do most people not refer to incredibly camp men as women?

nix

You need a vagina and then some to be a woman, not a mutilated penis.

The law doesnt make it right, was the law right when they crucified jesus ? :P

Laws can be changed, your sex cannot.. no matter how much you sugar coat it :rolleyes:

ChocolateSauce

BnA wrote: »

No they haven't.

The had a few operations, changed their name, changed their birth cert, took a few hormones and then stuck on a Gúna and told the world they are now a woman.

Sorry bud.... You're not. You're a man in a dress. Nothing more.

Now, I have no problem with it. Whatever someone wants to do to thier body/wear/call themselves is none of my business and no skin off my nose. And if they are happy with it, then more power to them.

All I'm just sain', you ain't foolin' anyone but yourself.

I'm not fooling anyone, I'm agreeing with the broad findings and recommendations of the scientific community on the matter.

Also my own experiences. I've a friend who was born a woman, got the operation done and now lives a very happy life as a normal, well adjusted man. He has a very pretty (straight) girlfriend and is more masculine than many men I know. He's one of the lads. I knew him for several months before I learned he used to be a she. I can't even imagine him being a woman.

Lord Trollington

if this person is really a woman(inside her head), and attracted to men, would she not stay in the male prison so she could get it every which way but loose from the inmates...??off a conveyor belt so to speak.....
This person has issues, there saying they area women in a mans body, but yet rape women..

So we're dealing with A lesbian tranny.... You wouldn't mind being black or a jew in America with this kinda person around

kumate_champ07

CAPTIAN CRAZY wrote: »

how can you be a true women with a cock ?

when its inside you

Prof.Badass

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I'm not fooling anyone, I'm agreeing with the broad findings and recommendations of the scientific community on the matter.Also my own experiences. I've a friend who was born a woman, got the operation done and now lives a very happy life as a normal, well adjusted man. He has a very pretty (straight) girlfriend and is more masculine than many men I know. He's one of the lads. I knew him for several months before I learned he used to be a she. I can't even imagine him being a woman.

There you go making sweeping assumptions about gender and behaviour. How bigoted. I am having nothing more to do with this discussion.

Lord Trollington

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

when its inside you

No thats only a cock holder....bit like a glove really..

BnA

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I'm not fooling anyone, I'm agreeing with the broad findings and recommendations of the scientific community on the matter.

Also my own experiences. I've a friend who was born a woman, got the operation done and now lives a very happy life as a normal, well adjusted man. He has a very pretty (straight) girlfriend and is more masculine than many men I know. He's one of the lads. I knew him for several months before I learned he used to be a she. I can't even imagine him being a woman.

Just for the record. I didn't mean that You - ChocolateSauce - are fooling no-one.

I meant you - the imaginary trans sexual I am talking to - are fooling no-one.

But, as I said, I have no problem with it. Each to their own.

ChocolateSauce

vinylmesh wrote: »

There you go making sweeping assumptions about gender and behaviour. How bigoted. I am having nothing more to do with this discussion.

Haha, how pathetic. The highlighted points were not sweeping assumptions, they were a specific example. You're the one who is bigoted. You refused to even take into consideration the many factors of what makes us what we are, and sweep an entire class of people who have gender identity disorder into wannabes.

Intersex is a different condition from gender identity disorder.

But, as I said, I have no problem with it. Each to their own.

I guess that's the important thing.

dr.bollocko

vinylmesh wrote: »

There you go making sweeping assumptions about gender and behaviour. How bigoted. I am having nothing more to do with this discussion.

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Haha, how pathetic. The highlighted points were not sweeping assumptions, they were a specific example. You're the one who is bigoted. You refused to even take into consideration the many factors of what makes us what we are, and sweep an entire class of people who have gender identity disorder into wannabes.

Intersex is a different condition from gender identity disorder.



I guess that's the important thing.

Leave it out with the bigot stuff or face a holiday from AH.

Mossy Monk

I can see him being raped repeatedly when he goes to the womens prison.

gurramok

vinylmesh wrote: »

Strange. I could have sworn that biologists defined gender by genetics. Maybe all those lecturers were lying to me .

The way i see it, if you have a Y chromosone you are male. If you don't you are female. If you have an intersex condition it is more complex and i would refer to you as intersex.

To automatically associate certain traits/ behaviour with gender is incredibly un-pc. Why do most people not refer to incredibly camp men as women?

Think you will find that it was discovered that brains in transexuals have similar brains to females who were born female and no where near the male brain features.
Hence its whats within that counts not what you look like.

Euro_Kraut

If he is attacted to men and was a rapist, then surely its better to have him out of a mens prison?

Prof.Badass

gurramok wrote: »

Think you will find that it was discovered that brains in transexuals have similar brains to females who were born female and no where near the male brain features.
Hence its whats within that counts not what you look like.

Even if that is true they are still male.

ChocolateSauce

vinylmesh wrote: »

Even if that is true they are still male.

Breasts + vagina + oestrogen + female mindset + female brain + female lifestyle + female in law = female. Being physiologically male at birth isn't the end all and be all.

philologos

I'm not sure if such discretion should be given in terms of changing where someone is in prison because they have voluntarily decided to change what gender they appear like. It casts a lot of doubt on the law and how fairly it is to be applied to everyone.

Prof.Badass

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Breasts + vagina + oestrogen + female mindset + female brain + female lifestyle + female in law = female. Being physiologically male at birth isn't the end all and be all.

Quite frankly I find your talk of "female mindset" and "female lifestyle" offensive. As if someone else's gender sterotypes have any sort of impact on what gender you are.

And lol at mentioning breasts. As if being flat chested makes you any less of a woman.

Gender = presence/absence of a Y chromosone. I find it laughable that people can think otherwise.

Stercus Accidit

CAPTIAN CRAZY wrote: »

he'd be a real hit with the lady's in the womens prison with a cock ,maybe he clever i'm in for life why not become a trany an transfer to the womens prison sexy with a different women every day when your locked up for life is a good idea no ?:D

Putting the genius back into criminal genius.

And putting something else into the other criminals and all.

ChocolateSauce

vinylmesh wrote: »

Gender = presence/absence of a Y chromosone. I find it laughable that people can think otherwise.

And I find it sad that you can't.

Poor Uncle Tom

gurramok wrote: »

Its a serious life changing experience to go through. The person would of seen psychiatrists and psychologists to make sure they were not been fooled.

Like that has never happened before....:rolleyes:

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Well fortunately in this case as far as the law is concerned, your opinion doesn't matter. The reason we have an impartial justice system to facilitate social harmony, not to appease the arbitrary feelings of people. Criminals may lose their civil rights, but their human rights are invoidable.

What about the human rights and civil rights of a murder victim, a rape victim, direct family members of a murder victim or a rape victim ?

I would say the human rights of a murder victim were not invoidable....

Blazer

Agreed Tom....if it was a normal prisoner no one would be defending him....Because he's in the middle of a sex change operation we get the whole human rights bull**** and how we should care about his rights...


And the law's an ass. How many times have this been proven in all fairness...:mad:
Sentences are whole disproportionate to the crimes...scum getting light prison sentences for serious crimes and only laughing at the so called justice system.

asdasd

That's somewhat understandable; it's counter-intuitive and takes a bit of reading into it and also an understanding of human biology, psychology and sociology.

I imagine it takes very little understanding of biology and a lot of sociology. I personally think most sociology is bunk. As for psychology, it used to believe that homosexuality was a brain disorder, and now it seems to think the opposite - that a man who thinks he is a woman - despite the penis etc. is normal. A PC pseudo-science.


The whole gender is a construct thing was largely blown away by the case of poor old david reimer but it had little, or no, effect on sociological literature becuase the people who do sociology are unscientific morons impervious to empirical evidence.

I'm not fooling anyone, I'm agreeing with the broad findings and recommendations of the scientific community on the matter.

No, the scientific community feels that a man is born a man, and a woman a woman. Same with animals, where gender crises are rare.

There was one scientific study which showed that some transsexuals had different genes to non-transexuals, which reduced the testosterone uptake ( although that is likely to explain homosexuality, not transgenderism).

And that shouldnt concern us in this case because :

a) It wouldnt matter to the sociological literature whether that finding happened or not and
b) nobody uses these tests - for the supposed anti-testosterone gene in males - to determine whether a muppet who thinks he is a woman is in fact holding this gene.

If he is, fine. In this case a male rapist has declared himself a woman. We have no idea of whatever, if any, genetic decision influenced this. Since we are not doing any genetic tests, we can clearly conclude that he gets to be a women , legally, by merely saying he feels like one. Thats a lifestyle choice not a genetic determinent.

this man is a rapist of women, is he not? What about their rights to not be around a male rapist?

I say, if this is to happen, we lob off his knob and balls first. Before the transfer. In many ways that will keep all of us happy. A rapist is getting castrated, and a transgendered muppet gets to play woman.

( It takes a lot of surgery, though, to change what is supposedly a construct).