Mayweather Marquez 24/7

ODD-JOB

www.hbo.com/247

First installment - havent watched it yet

colly10

ODD-JOB wrote: »

www.hbo.com/247

First installment - havent watched it yet

It cuts me off at 5.31, anyone else getting that?

Edit: Its grand just found in on youtube

siochain

will this fight be shown live over here?

horsebox09

Yeah i'd say this fight will be on sky box office or espn,can't wait for it!

Vintagekits

horsebox09 wrote: »

Yeah i'd say this fight will be on sky box office or espn,can't wait for it!

nope! just ordinary old Sky Sports.

joepenguin

Vintagekits wrote: »

nope! just ordinary old Sky Sports.

Really? Thats odd, but could turn out to be a smart move if more people get to see it then ppv sales for the winner of mayweather-marquez vs the winner of pac-cotto would be huge.

Wonder whats the chances of getting pac-cotto on rte? :pac:

unknown13

Vintagekits wrote: »

nope! just ordinary old Sky Sports.

Seriously, but his fight with De La Hoya was on ordinary Sky Sports

walshb

I thought the Oscar-Floyd fight was Sky PPV, not ordinary Sky Sports.

ooPabsoo

from what i remember it was ppv aswel

colly10

Im suprrised this won't be PPV, it's a fight id consider getting if I wasn't going out that night

scruff321

ODD-JOB wrote: »

www.hbo.com/247

First installment - havent watched it yet

sound for putting that up ODD-JOB.

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

I thought the Oscar-Floyd fight was Sky PPV, not ordinary Sky Sports.

No I think that was ordinary Sky Sports as I drunkenly stumbled home to watch it and I wouldn't miss all of an undercard if I paid to watch it.

Vintagekits

Big Ears wrote: »

No I think that was ordinary Sky Sports as I drunkenly stumbled home to watch it and I wouldn't miss all of an undercard if I paid to watch it.

are you sure? I thought it was PPV!

Big Ears

Vintagekits wrote: »

are you sure? I thought it was PPV!

Not sure, but confident enough. I wouldn't have bothered paying ppv for a card of that quality, especially if I was gonna be going out that night.

I could be wrong though..........

akindoc

Floyd vs Oscar was not on SBO.

Aaron M

Floyd vs. Oscar was definitely on regular Sky Sports, NOT Sky Box Office.

ODD-JOB

They're showing this card in cinema's accross the US ....
and I thought i read somewhere that they were going to scrap the PPV idea after poor interest levels .

sorry dont remember where i read it , and cant give a link .

MCMT

ODD-JOB wrote: »

They're showing this card in cinema's accross the US ....
and I thought i read somewhere that they were going to scrap the PPV idea after poor interest levels .

sorry dont remember where i read it , and cant give a link .

I haven't read that they would be scrapping PPV, but I know many commentators have seen their move to show the fight in movie theatres as a means of diverting attention away from poor sales. And I know Freddie Roach sees it in this light:

http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/8/29/1006656/freddie-roach-talks-mayweather

I can't see them dropping the PPV option to be honest - it is already being sold, there are sponsors in place etc. And most importantly, Mayweather's claim to greatness (and his central bargaining ploy when it comes to Pac) are PPV numbers. Ticket sales etc don't matter much - it's all about PPV numbers.

Pac-Cotto will blow May-Marq out of the water in this regard, imo. But then, I've read 90% of PPV sales are done the week of the bout, so maybe all the promotion GB/Mayweather Promo are doing will yield some results. Just can't see it pulling in the casual fan though.

Having said that, I think it's terrific they're showing it in theatres. If they did that here I'd definitely consider it as an option.

ODD-JOB

well I agree that all the money comes in the form of PPV , but they can usually gauge interest levels from ticket sales .
before the last mayweather-marquez was cancelled , Shane mosley let slip that less than 3000 tickets were sold !
Hinting that there was no genuine training injury sustained by Mayweather .
It's hard to know what to believe , we can only take in stories that the media feed us , nothing else.

Also just to query the Cinema viewing of this fight , what do HBO have to say about this ?
As HBO are thought to have bought the screening rights , surely they can only lose PPV sales as people flock to the cinema instead .
Id be interested to know what price a cinema ticket is for this too !

nacho libre

Speaking of Mosley it looks like he'll be fighting Clottey on St Stephens day.

joepenguin

nacho libre wrote: »

Speaking of Mosley it looks like he'll be fighting Clottey on St Stephens day.

That has to be the worst day of the year to fight on!

ODD-JOB

Hey hey .... it's christmas time ! in fact its boxing day too ironicly

Mosley is 38 on monday , Clottey most under rated in the division .

cant wait ,...going the distance

colly10

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Hey hey .... it's christmas time ! in fact its boxing day too ironicly

Mosley is 38 on monday , Clottey most under rated in the division .

cant wait ,...going the distance

Thats going to be a great fight, I felt that Clottey should have got the decision against Cotto. Hoping that Mosley puts in another great performance and wins it well though

Big Ears

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Hey hey .... it's christmas time ! in fact its boxing day too ironicly

Mosley is 38 on monday , Clottey most under rated in the division .

cant wait ,...going the distance

Only slightly ironic 'Boxing Day' doesn't actually have anything to do with the sport.

I think any day in early January would be a worse day to fight tbh, you still have to do all the dieting and training throughout Christmas, but have to continue with it past New Years aswell. Where as for everyone else it's the time of the year they'll probably indulge in drink and junk food and other **** the most.

ODD-JOB

well , I was pondering a trip to Oz for Christmas but this has thrown a spanner in there . heh heh

It's just in time for "fight of the year!" too

Johnny Drama.

HBO kno how to build up a fight, there 24/7 shows for all the big fights are top class.
Maybe rte should do a 24/7 for dunnes next fight & get marty morrissey to be the narrator.

joepenguin

Johnny Drama. wrote: »

HBO kno how to build up a fight, there 24/7 shows for all the big fights are top class.
Maybe rte should do a 24/7 for dunnes next fight & get marty morrissey to be the narrator.

If they could find a slot for it, it would be great. The only thing would be getting cameras out to poonswats camp for any length of time if at all.

Maybe they could do a one hour affair. Dunnes ratings are very high apparently so it should be win win by all accounts.

Id certainly love to see it.

MCMT

ODD-JOB wrote: »

well I agree that all the money comes in the form of PPV , but they can usually gauge interest levels from ticket sales .
before the last mayweather-marquez was cancelled , Shane mosley let slip that less than 3000 tickets were sold !
Hinting that there was no genuine training injury sustained by Mayweather .
It's hard to know what to believe , we can only take in stories that the media feed us , nothing else.

Also just to query the Cinema viewing of this fight , what do HBO have to say about this ?
As HBO are thought to have bought the screening rights , surely they can only lose PPV sales as people flock to the cinema instead .
Id be interested to know what price a cinema ticket is for this too !

I agree, but unfortunately promoters judge the success of a fight (and fighters) on PPV numbers. Other factors barely get a mention. That's why Mayweather can claim he's the biggest draw in boxing, as his De La Hoya and Hatton fights drew the largest PPV numbers. But obviously, there's lots of other factors to consider. Namely, that Mayweather, whether he won or not, appears to ride on the tails of other fighters' popularity. The fact that his bout with Marquez looks like bombing is strong evidence of this.

There's a growing pile of evidence every week to suggest that this fight is being pushed on an unwilling public. Expect plenty of spin from Mayweather and co after the numbers get posted.

I'd imagine HBO are fairly happy about the cinema move. The theatre's probably pay for the right to show it publicly so they still get mullah.

I believe the cost of the ticket is the same as a regular cinema ticket. In new York, that's about $12. Elsewhere it'll be much cheaper. So all in all, a decent way of viewing the fight if you don't wish to/can't shell out the $50 they're asking. (Though a fair few have pointed out that you can't have a beer at the cinema - a sacrifice to great for some).

joepenguin

I think cinema is a great idea. Wouldnt work here though with the time of the fight.

colly10

joepenguin wrote: »

If they could find a slot for it, it would be great. The only thing would be getting cameras out to poonswats camp for any length of time if at all.

Maybe they could do a one hour affair. Dunnes ratings are very high apparently so it should be win win by all accounts.

Id certainly love to see it.

It'd be a nice idea but id give RTE less than no chance of ever producing anything of the quality of 24/7

yabadabado

oscar v floyd was ordinary sky sports

ODD-JOB

MCMT wrote: »

I believe the cost of the ticket is the same as a regular cinema ticket. In new York, that's about $12. Elsewhere it'll be much cheaper. So all in all, a decent way of viewing the fight if you don't wish to/can't shell out the $50 they're asking. (Though a fair few have pointed out that you can't have a beer at the cinema - a sacrifice to great for some).

Well if they were showing the undercard fights , then it would be great value !!
But it is peak-time Sat night in the cinemas , so they may just be showing the headline fight .

siochain

yup its on SS 1

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,12947,00.html
class

ODD-JOB

can anybody tell me what weight or catch weight these 2 are fighting at ?

Big Ears

144 lbs is the contracted weight.

142 would of been fair for me, but oh well.

slipss

Episode 2 is up on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOJH-J3qwPQ

joepenguin

142 would have made it a good even fight with both fighters taking an equal risk. Mayweather coming down 5 pounds. Marquez going up 7.

144 is a jump of 9lbs for JMM. And thats from lightweight. If pac was a superfeather you can beat your last euro jmm would have stayed at superfeather and i bet he can still make it easy.

Thats a similar jump to the one pavlik took to face hopkins(10 lbs) but at a lighter weight its more significant.

walshb

The fact that Floyd hasn't been competitive for almost two years and that his last fight saw him weigh 147 lbs, I think him coming to 144 lbs is quite generous. Remember, the layoff and age and maturity all make it very difficult to maintain weight. Marquez has been an aging and busy fighter for the past two years, so IMO, the drop in weight for Floyd is more telling than the rise in weight for Marquez...

colly10

walshb wrote: »

The fact that Floyd hasn't been competitive for almost two years and that his last fight saw him weigh 147 lbs, I think him coming to 144 lbs is quite generous. Remember, the layoff and age and maturity all make it very difficult to maintain weight. Marquez has been an aging and busy fighter for the past two years, so IMO, the drop in weight for Floyd is more telling than the rise in weight for Marquez...

Floyd was a fairly small WW and he's only 32, I doubt the 3 pounds will have much affect on him at all, the layoff will have brought back his desire, he looks really sharp in that second 24/7 episode (although it doesn't tell alot).
Marquez's trainer said he still needs to speed up at the weight, I see Floyd winning this one comfortably as much as id like to see Marquez do well

walshb

I agree that physically he was a small welter, but age wise, he is not, and as a man gets older, maturity and nature play a part. Ray Leonard was a decent sized welter at 22 or 23, but aged 30, Ray wouldn't ever have made welter. Maturity AND inactivity meant he was rising in weight.

Floyd will be two years older come Sept 19th than when he was a welter and very active.
So, he now must get to three lbs below his 147 lbs that he weighed in Dec '07.

Remember, at that weigh in, he looked very lean and ripped too. It wasn't a case
of him coming in with any excess weight.

He weighed 150 lbs in May '07 vs Oscar...
The dropping to 144 lbs after two years out and two years
aged will affect him.

walshb

Very detailed and insightful breakdown of how this fight may go.
This guy could definitely sway me....


By Paul Strauss: Get used to the idea. When it happens, it's going to make many experts and some odds-makers angry. They're going to hate it, but not because they're unhappy with El Dinamita, or that they feel sorry for Little Floyd. No it will be a matter of pride. They will be disgusted with themselves for failing to glom onto the real possibility of an upset win, let alone the KO of Small Change. Yes, they're going to be mad at themselves and will feel foolish, kind of like they did after Manny easily beat Oscar.

The same type of excuses will be made. In picking Oscar over Manny, they explained their reasoning was correct and their knowledge of the fight game sound. Oscar should have won they still say. He lost only because he didn't have the fire anymore. Or, he lost because he came into the fight drained and at too light of a weight.

After Marquez wins, they will dampen the greatness of his accomplishment by saying it was because the former P4P champ had been away from the game for too long. Or, they might say it was because of the distractions concerning his uncle, father, or possibly the target practice he'd been taking with his armed employees. Regardless, they will not look at the Marquez victory as a demonstration of his great skill, heart and determination..

If you want to become a believer and get on the Marquez band wagon now, take a look at some of his great fights, and in particular note his incredible ability to adapt and change on the fly as the fight progresses. Often times he has had to do so while under great pressure. Even though he just celebrated his 36th birthday, he is still improving as a fighter. He is getting better with age. On the other hand, Mayweather is static. He is as good as he is ever going to get, which obviously is pretty damn good. In fact, he's awesome by anyone's standards. But, there are unanswered questions about him. On the other hand, there aren't any unanswered questions concerning Marquez.

When contemplating the possibility of Marquez KO'ing No Cents, who claims to be innocent until proven guilty, think about the success Marquez has had with disparate styles. His last impressive win came against Juan Diaz, an extreme pressure, high punch volume, left hooking machine. Marquez did as he always does. While on the fly, he studied, he probed, and dissected his opponent, and then heightened his focus and took Diaz out. That was after many thought Diaz was controlling the fight and would eventually wear down the older Marquez.

Juan encountered different problems and concerns with Joel Casamayor. Casamayor is the master craftsman, very elusive, quick and a cagey southpaw (maybe even dirty at times). He is also a great counter puncher. Marquez had to be cautious concerning possible head-butts, elbows, shoulders, as well as having to deal with Casamayor's extensive experience and speed. Marquez knocked him out. The first time anyone had ever done that to El Cepillo. That occurred even though two judges had the fight a draw up until the end.

Everyone knows about his great comeback in the first fight with Pac Man, so no need to reiterate that tremendous feat. But realistically, aren't Mayweather fans and the experts right when they say just as Clint Eastwood's character Dirty Harry said, "A man has got to know his limitations."? Aren't the experts and odds-makers right in thinking that Marquez just doesn't have the physical gifts necessary to tip the pugilistic balance sheet in his favor? Aren't there too many entries on the Pay Me Now side? Further, there is always the list of liabilities, and it seems like they're all on the side of Marquez...... i.e. age (ring age), lack of size and power, too slow, and so forth.

Consequently, if Marquez should indeed pull off the huge upset, it can only be because he landed a lucky punch, right? That's the only way it could be possible! That's his only real hope and prayer. Or, will he win because he will figure out Pocket Change's style and do what's necessary to come away with the victory? Don't leave yet and kindly keep your humpfs to yourself.

Come on, jump on the band wagon and realize that Marquez already knows that Floyd was bothered by Oscar's and Castillo's jabs. Unfortunately, they both failed to use them enough. Juan won't make that same mistake. He will skillfully negate Floyd's reach advantage with good head movement and properly executed head slips forward that will enable him to make Floyd pay. Sure, he will be getting hit, and probably a lot. But, he will use his own hard jab and combinations to the body to offset those moments and to begin the setup process.

Granted Cash & Carry will make Marquez look foolish at times, but it won't bother Marquez. He will continue to feint Floyd into his patented shoulder roll, tucked-in turtle type defense. Juan, over time, will gauge Jr's moves and start catching him with well timed punches as the Little Denomination attempts to spring out of his shell with single shots.

Juan will also use his own check hook on Floyd when Jr. will leap forward with a lead left hook. The Lord of Little Value managed in the past to use his great speed to get away with this tactic, as he did against Corrales. However, like Ricky Hatton, he too drops his right hand a bit (just enough). It will be “bing” instead of “bling” for the Forged Bank Note.

Unquestionably, Floyd will look good. His speed and elusiveness will be showcased over and over again in the fight, and fans will be looking closely at Marquez for signs of quit. There will be none. Instead, Marquez will fight a complete fight, and will keep Floyd honest with hard shots to the body, lead right hands, and combinations. Even if many of the punches are only landing on Floyd's arms, he will be undeterred and will continue to throw them. He will land these shots in both close quarters and from a distance. The damage might not be immediately apparent, but they will have the desired long term effect. Gradually Floyd will be eased out of his game plan a bit and his rhythm will skip a beat. It will be the first chink in his armor.

Marquez won't be suckered either. He will throw his punches to the anticipated locations. He will be the quarterback leading his receiver. Early on in the fight, he also will jab to Floyd's chest. He will surprise Floyd by countering Floyd's counters, instead of going on the defensive like many of Floyd's previous opponents.

Floyd is also used to having the upper hand with his blinding speed, which not only causes the desired physical damage, but also flusters his opponents. That will not happen with Marquez. Instead, Marquez will answer, and always with combinations. When Floyd's counters fail to cause the desired effect, it too will take Floyd a bit more out of his rhythm and game plan.

Marquez is a master at managing distance, and he will also shock Floyd when he demonstrates the ability to reach him with long distance punches, not unlike Juan did against Casamayor. Floyd will try to occasionally change tactics and try to get inside. One of his favorite tactics is to cleverly use his forearm or elbow to elevate his opponent's chin just enough so he can shoot over his right. Floyd will be perplexed though when he discovers Marquez will not let him in close. It will be another skip in the beat.

There's no doubt Floyd will undoubtedly make Juan look bad. He will appear bigger, faster, and be harder to hit. He will move in and out of range, scoring damaging shots as he does so. Up to this point, Mayweather fans, the experts and odds-makers will be comfortable with their decision to pick Floyd to win. Things might even look bleak for the Mexican warrior. By this time, he will have missed his target with a lot of punches, and he will be bruised and possibly even cut.

However, the fight will dramatically turn in his favor. Floyd will foolishly think he can take Marquez out. He will start to set down on his punches, and try to close in for the kill. His confidence will reminiscent of Jersey Joe Walcott's comment when he said if he couldn't beat Rocky Marciano he would retire. Archie Moore felt the same way about Rocky. The old Mongoose knew he could knock out anyone he could hit, and Rocky appeared easy to hit. Well, Archie knocked Rocky down, but ended up getting KO'd himself.

Granted, there's no comparing the styles or hitting power of Rocky and Juan, but one can certainly compare their determination, strength and ability to win when all appears lost. In fact, it seems they thrive on it! That's the real key.

In the end it won't make any difference how good Floyd looks. When he confidently believes he has Juan beaten and moves in for the kill, he is going to run into Juan's punches. He will be hurt, and will instinctively try to get out of range, but will be unable to escape. Just that fast, the course of the fight will change, and the end will be near.

Despite the fact that Marquez will have been beaten up and punished, he will still get to Floyd, and those unanswered questions about Floyd will be answered. Marquez will once again be vying with Manny for best P4P. Money, for the first time, will be experiencing a foreign program to him called Lay-a-Way, which might cause him to re-retire to spend more quality time with his father. . . . .

c1979

can't wait. boxing is better with mayweather

consultech

Can't wait either... Been filling up every night on some of PBF's classics...

That "journalism" above is cringeworthy also btw. However, I almost wanna put a score on a Marquez stoppage though; but considering I had Hatton in both his previous fights and De La Hoya in DLH/Pac; I might just leave the boxing betting be this time.

EDIT:[/ladbrokes.com] Hmmmm, JMM stoppage is 7/1 though!!

slipss

walshb wrote: »

Very detailed and insightful breakdown of how this fight may go.
This guy could definitely sway me....

It's a decently written piece and shows a knowlege of both fighters but it's blatantly obvious the guy deosn't like, Floyd "pocket change, no cents, innocent untill proven guilty, spend more quality time with his father" Mayweather. Is very very biased in favour of JMM in my opinion, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

colly10

slipss wrote: »

It's a decently written piece and shows a knowlege of both fighters but it's blatantly obvious the guy deosn't like, Floyd "pocket change, no cents, innocent untill proven guilty, spend more quality time with his father" Mayweather. Is very very biased in favour of JMM in my opinion, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.

Exactly what I was going to say, his opinion means **** when he has an obvious dislike for mayweather. Also he feels that Marquez will be taking a beating for a while and this will drive him on to beat Mayweather, sounds like a Rocky film. I would be thinking that if Marquez is to win this fight he wouldn't want to be getting hit that often, he's an intelligent fighter and he needs to use that to work a way around Floyd. His determination should be used in the gym, not relied on to win the fight.

joepenguin

walshb wrote: »

Very detailed and insightful breakdown of how this fight may go.
This guy could definitely sway me....

Still undecided on this one, however this piece got me thinking...

Has Mayweather fought someone as talented as jmm at 140 or higher?

colly10

joepenguin wrote: »

Still undecided on this one, however this piece got me thinking...

Has Mayweather fought someone as talented as jmm at 140 or higher?

Definitely hasn't fought someone as talented over 140, the problem is just how much of JMM's talent transfers to 144 lbs. He's probably going to loose some speed and will be relatively weaker than he is used to

nacho libre

The thing is that Marquez adapts to nearly any style of boxing very quick and thats something Mayweather has never encountered, all fighters he has fought fight his fight. come Sep 19 that may change. i think if Mayweather isn’t at the top of his game, after his 21 month layoff, I give Marquez a good chance of pulling off the upset if this fight goes into the latter rounds.

Seillejet

ODD-JOB wrote: »

Hey hey .... it's christmas time ! in fact its boxing day too ironicly

Mosley is 38 on monday , Clottey most under rated in the division .

cant wait ,...going the distance

Yeahhhhh cannot wait for that fight. Love the fact that Mosley one that "legendary" fight against a boxer that had his gloves loaded.

MCMT

nacho libre wrote: »

The thing is that Marquez adapts to nearly any style of boxing very quick and thats something Mayweather has never encountered, all fighters he has fought fight his fight. come Sep 19 that may change. i think if Mayweather isn’t at the top of his game, after his 21 month layoff, I give Marquez a good chance of pulling off the upset if this fight goes into the latter rounds.

Fair point, but the closer it gets to this fight, I can't see the upset. There's just way too much stacked against JMM. He's one of my favorite fighters but Mayweather has all the cards on this one, I reckon.

joepenguin

So em... JMM drinking his own urine... Personally I highly doubt it but is he

A) just doing it so as to look like he will do things no-one esle is willing to do.

Promoting a new sports perfomance product jaunmanjuice which he will claim made all the difference should he beat jmm.

C) A bit of a nut.


Seeing the full time set up, everyone involved, promotion, the millions of dollars does make me feel like we as fans deserve way more match ups than what we get. These guys know who they will be fighting, what style, have every training tool available etc etc and yet anything half competitive at the top level is deemed a superfight.

Ok guys in the later stages of their career should only fight twice a year thats fair enough but we miss out on so many fights because we accept too many stay busy fights etc. while fighters are in their prime. Promoters protecting their prospects 0

We havent seen Mayweather-Mosely. Mayweather - margarito, Mayweather - Williams,Mayweather - Cotto, Cotto-Williams, Cotto-Hatton, Hatton-Gatti (i know that was on the cards but still) Hatton-Witter... yes it wouldnt have been a great fight but one that should have happened and still would have done well.

Yes its a business but a fight like Mayweather - Oscar was seen by Millions, loads of casual fans who probably have only seen a Hatton fight since, or possibly... just possibly heard of pacman.

Now if the same casual fans seen Margarito-Cotto, Vasquez-Marquez, Corales - Castillo 1 etc. Good competitive fights, then Im sure boxing would gain more and more fans.

People talk about Hagler,Hearns,Duran, Leonard in their era, and Collins,Benn, Eubank on this side of the pond as legendary but fighters nowadays arent been given the chance to do the same.