When you first told your parents that you were atheist,

branie

how did they react?

rainbow kirby

I was 12, they didn't believe me.

Galvasean

Something similar to rainbow kirby but I was a bit older. When I insisted later (a Christmas morning and I refused to go to mass) my mother wasn't too pleased, but my father was intrigued, so much so that he decided he didn't want to go either. He's not an atheist by any means, but the event did spark him on his journey toward deism.

Turtwig

Haven't told em yet..it would literally TERRIFY them.

Worse thing is though that I may have missed my oppurtunity, if I come clean now they'll just assume it's because I'm unwell and in spite of God

drkpower

Why tell them?
Do you tell them that you dont believe in fairies, goblins and flying spaghetti monsters? Hardly.
Is it possible that those who do tell them are looking for some kind of reaction? And isnt that a little bit childish?

The Mad Hatter

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I was 12, they didn't believe me.

Quoted because I can't be arsed typing the same thing.

They believed me a few years later, though. My mum then tried to argue that good and evil therefore god.

Galvasean

drkpower wrote: »

Why tell them?
Do you tell them that you dont believe in fairies, goblins and flying spaghetti monsters? Hardly.
Is it possible that those who do tell them are looking for some kind of reaction? And isnt that a little bit childish?

Well since my parents didn't believe in fairies, goblins and the FSM there was no need to tell them. They did however believe in God and had me partaking in 'his' rituals.
I suppose though I was looking for a reaction, ie: to have them stop asking me to partake in said rituals.

Zillah

drkpower wrote: »

Why tell them?
Do you tell them that you dont believe in fairies, goblins and flying spaghetti monsters? Hardly.
Is it possible that those who do tell them are looking for some kind of reaction? And isnt that a little bit childish?

If my parents had been trying to take me on weekly trips to go worship goblins you can bet your ass I'd have told them.

I stopped being Catholic before I really realised I was an atheist. I didn't want to go to mass because the whole process meant nothing to me, so I essentially eased them into it. Whole blown atheism came later.

drkpower

Galvasean wrote: »

Well since my parents didn't believe in fairies, goblins and the FSM there was no need to tell them. They did however believe in God and had me partaking in 'his' rituals.
I suppose though I was looking for a reaction, ie: to have them stop asking me to partake in said rituals.

Why didnt you just say you couldnt be arsed going to mass?
Fair enough, if you were a child who was being told to go to mass, but if you were 16+, seems a little bit of a "look at me" kind of attitude.

All of my immediate family are atheist really. I've never believed in 'God'.

Galvasean

drkpower wrote: »

Why didnt you just say you couldnt be arsed going to mass?

Because thats not a bgood enough excuse. *Gets smack off parents*

drkpower wrote:

Fair enough, if you were a child who was being told to go to mass, but if you were 16+, seems a little bit of a "look at me" kind of attitude.

Im sure there are people who are like that, but if it comes up in conversation why try hide it

Turtwig

drkpower wrote: »

Why tell them?
Do you tell them that you dont believe in fairies, goblins and flying spaghetti monsters? Hardly.
Is it possible that those who do tell them are looking for some kind of reaction? And isnt that a little bit childish?

Em are you actually saying we should lie to our parents??
You know they brought up in this world, loved us, nutured us and all that. Faith is very dear to some parents but what if they were to find out by say other means??

I need to tell 'em, I'm just terrified of doing, but they need to find out from me first.
Actually, now that I reflect on it it's my brother and Cousin that I really fear the most if they were to find out...:(

drkpower

Malty_T wrote: »

Em are you actually saying we should lie to our parents??

Yes; they care deeply about something; you dont care at all about it.
Telling them will upset them greatly.
Not telling them doesnt effect you at all.

No advantage to telling them at all.

Turtwig

drkpower wrote: »

Yes; they care deeply about something; you dont care at all about it.
Telling them will upset them greatly.
Not telling them doesnt effect you at all.

No advantage to telling them at all.

Yeah and that is why I always hold back from telling em..

But seriously, I have a conscience you know keeping up an act is only tolerable for so long and faking it makes it much much worse

drkpower

Malty_T wrote: »

Yeah and that is why I always hold back from telling em..

But seriously, I have a conscience you know keeping up an act is only tolerable for so long and faking it makes it much much worse

Im not suggesting you "fake it"; just dont get into it. A non-belief is a non-belief, after all. What reason is there to assert a non-belief?

And there are plenty of reasons for refusing to go to mass that would be entirely truthful but may save you having to upset your parents anymore than you need to.

ie.
It is boring
I have football
The seats are too hard
Whatever.

Galvasean

drkpower wrote: »

Im not suggesting you "fake it"; just dont get into it. A non-belief is a non-belief, after all. What reason is there to assert a non-belief?

And there are plenty of reasons for refusing to go to mass that would be entirely truthful but may save you having to upset your parents anymore than you need to.

ie.
It is boring
I have football
The seats are too hard
Whatever.

I think you are just trolling now.

If you value football over God you might as well come out as a non-believer.

drkpower

Galvasean wrote: »

I think you are just trolling now.

If you value football over God you might as well come out as a non-believer.

Excuse me?

Read the post again. "I ahve football" was one of the myriad of reasons not to go to mass short of upsetting devout parents by declaring your non-belief.

And when did I say I am a believer?

Is it trollling to purposefullly misinterpret a very straightforward post?

Zillah

drkpower wrote: »

Is it trollling to purposefullly misinterpret a very straightforward post?

No, I don't think we should ban Galvasean for disagreeing with you.

drkpower

Zillah wrote: »

No, I don't think we should ban Galvasean for disagreeing with you.

I think you are trolling now.;)

Galvasean

drkpower wrote: »

Excuse me?

Read the post again. "I ahve football" was one of the myriad of reasons not to go to mass short of upsetting devout parents by declaring your non-belief.

And when did I say I am a believer?

Is it trollling to purposefullly misinterpret a very straightforward post?

*sigh*

You misinterprate my post.
I was implying that you appear to be just trying to 'catch out' people and seem to have no interest in listening to what they have to say in relation to coming out as atheists. All of your posts on the matter have been having subtle digs at their reasoning/integrity.

The football bit was a seperate point (hence the purposeful spacing). In this point I was clearly not addressing you as a believer, but rather pointing out the absurdity of making excuses for not wanting to go to mass when stating that you are simply not a believer would suffice. Not to mention that telling your parents that you value things like football above worship is most likely going to be just as upsetting as coming out properly as a non-believer.

But if you want to play the victim card and accuse others of doing exactly what you are doing (ie: purposefully misinterpretating other people's posts) then get in the line.

Sam Vimes

drkpower wrote: »

Im not suggesting you "fake it"; just dont get into it. A non-belief is a non-belief, after all. What reason is there to assert a non-belief?

And there are plenty of reasons for refusing to go to mass that would be entirely truthful but may save you having to upset your parents anymore than you need to.

ie.
It is boring
I have football
The seats are too hard
Whatever.

So you're not suggesting that we should fake it but you are suggesting we should give a fake reason for not going to mass because telling them the real reason would be childish and attention seeking

Not for the first time I get the impression that you think atheism is something to be ashamed of. In fact you spend an awful lot of time on this forum telling atheists that they should pretty much shut up about it, lest we offend people. If I don't believe in God and don't want to partake in catholic rituals I will tell people it's because I don't believe in God and if they don't like it that's their problem. It's not like I'm telling them I rape kids, I just don't believe in their religion. Big deal

If you were gay and your parents kept trying to set you up with women would you tell them or would that also be childish and attention seeking?

philologos

drkpower wrote: »

Why tell them?
Do you tell them that you dont believe in fairies, goblins and flying spaghetti monsters? Hardly.
Is it possible that those who do tell them are looking for some kind of reaction? And isnt that a little bit childish?

Is it better to live in a façade than to live as you really are? I don't see telling people about what you believe as being childish.

I differ with family members on certain aspects of my theology, and when I do disagree I generally would make it clear that I do in discussion.

I think it is true that there is a point when you become your own person, and a point when you think about things for yourself.

This is an interesting thread though, thanks all.

5uspect

I explained to my parents, they agreed. Everyone is much happier now.

Dades

drkpower wrote: »

And there are plenty of reasons for refusing to go to mass that would be entirely truthful but may save you having to upset your parents anymore than you need to.

ie.
It is boring
I have football
The seats are too hard
Whatever.

I'm sorry but none of those excuses offered by a child refusing to go to mass are going to result in anything but a sharp retort, or that "bigger conversation" you suggest be avoided in case you hurt feelings.

Not in the real world anyway.

robindch

drkpower wrote: »

What reason is there to assert a non-belief?

Heavens, you've been visiting here long enough that you should be able to make a stab at that yourself by now

drkpower wrote: »

And there are plenty of reasons for refusing to go to mass that would be entirely truthful but may save you having to upset your parents anymore than you need to. It is boring, I have football, The seats are too hard

As Dades says, I can't imagine there are many religious believers out there who'd take those kind of answers as anything other than a mild insult at best, and at worst, the jumping off point for a sermon on the kid's innate depravity followed by a boot in the direction of the nearest church.

studiorat

Don't think I ever saw my father in a church apart from Funerals and the like. My Mum was a Catholic and stopped bringing me as soon as I was 12 or so. I always respected her catholicism. Strange thing was when she died I was the only one sitting at the hospital bed with her when the hospital chaplin arrived. He asked my permission to bless her and obviously I agreed, since then her religion has always been important to me. I don't believe a word of it but strangely enough I respect and feel a certain attachment to catholisim because she was a member.

I don't think I ever had to tell my parents that I was of wasn't an atheist. All sounds a bit middle class to me...

Overblood

My mother is a deist I think, father is a fervent anti-theist with an extreme hatred of religion, catholicism in particular after receiving countless beatings from priests during his school years. We only went to church at Christmas.

They never told me anything about their (non)beliefs, though my dad fed me tidbits of science from a young age. Our house hadn't a bible in sight, unless you count LOTR.

I was communified... confirmed... it all meant absolutely nothing to me. Never told my parents I didn't believe in god; it was a given. There would be more of a hullabaloo if I told them I did believe in god.

drkpower

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Not for the first time I get the impression that you think atheism is something to be ashamed of. In fact you spend an awful lot of time on this forum telling atheists that they should pretty much shut up about it, lest we offend people. If I don't believe in God and don't want to partake in catholic rituals I will tell people it's because I don't believe in God and if they don't like it that's their problem. It's not like I'm telling them I rape kids, I just don't believe in their religion. Big deal

But of course, it is a big deal to some parents; so I dont see the point in upsetting them merely to assert a non-belief, a default position if you will. They will realise eventually, I can only se disadvantages to the confrontational approach.

I dont know where you get the suggestion that I believe athesim is something to be ashamed of?! Nothing could be further from the truth; but nor is it something that needs to be trumpeted and dispalyed. The same goes for the religous. If people could leave their belief/non-belief behind their own 4 walls, we would all be better off.

But I also dont find that sleeping with my girlfriend before marriage or having the odd joint anything to be ashmaed of, but, as I know my parents wouldntapprove, I have no particular wish to tell them about it.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

If you were gay and your parents kept trying to set you up with women would you tell them or would that also be childish and attention seeking?

Homosexuality is hardly non-heterosexuality though, is it?

Its funny; so many people here assert that atheism "is not a belief", is merely a non-belief, is the "default position". But when it suits them, they analogise it to situations (like homosexuality) which are entirely different.

Personally, for me, I treat it like any other non-belief; I ignore it, except where it harms or adversely affects me. But why I might want to upset a loved one to assert something which is of so little relevance is beyond me.

drkpower

Galvasean wrote: »

You misinterprate my post.
I was implying that you appear to be just trying to 'catch out' people and seem to have no interest in listening to what they have to say in relation to coming out as atheists. All of your posts on the matter have been having subtle digs at their reasoning/integrity.

I am not making "digs", subtle or overt. I am expressing my view that, essentially, upsetting loved ones to assert a default or "lack of belief" position is not very constructive, or if you like, is childish. I appreciate others do not have that view, but I do.

I have no intention to "catch people out" and if I had no interest in listening to what people were saying, I wouldnt be here. So please try and keep the personal abuse to a minimum, cheers.

Galvasean

drkpower wrote: »

Homosexuality is hardly non-heterosexuality though, is it?

Its funny; so many people here assert that atheism "is not a belief", is merely a non-belief, is the "default position". But when it suits them, they analogise it to situations (like homosexuality) which are entirely different.

Actually to homosexuals, homosexuality is their default position. Much biological evidence supports this stance.

drkpower wrote:

Personally, for me, I treat it like any other non-belief; I ignore it, except where it harms or adversely affects me. But why I might want to upset a loved one to assert something which is of so little relevance is beyond me.

As has been explained in this thread already sometimes you have the choice of asserting this non belief or directly lying to family members. If you prefer the latter so be it. Others prefer the former. Neither is the correct or proper thing to do. It's a personal choice.

drkpower

Dades wrote: »

I'm sorry but none of those excuses offered by a child refusing to go to mass are going to result in anything but a sharp retort, or that "bigger conversation" you suggest be avoided in case you hurt feelings.

Not in the real world anyway.

I live in the real world. And myself and most of my friends stopped going to mass, first by pretending we still went, then by arranging other things (ie. football) for the same time, then by saying it was boring...... That is how it happened for all of us. As we alll know, most Irish parents are a la carte Catholics and are not going to have a freak attack if theor parents stop going to mass.

Everyone did it thta way. I never had an epiphany "I dont believe" moment; I suppose I never believed.

Overblood

It's funny the way you had to escape from mass by organizing football. Reminds me of...

dvpower

If your parents had you baptised and raised you as a Christian, isn't that then the 'default' position (from their pov)? Now, i dont see much point in actively 'coming out' particulary if its going to cause upset but i wouldnt be in favour of suppressing my atheism either. Should a FG voting child hide their politics from their devout FF parents?

Galvasean

dvpower wrote: »

If your parents had you baptised and raised you as a Christian, isn't that then the 'default' position (from their pov)?

Perhaps from their distorted POV. But bear in mind the child being baptised has no idea what he/she's getting into or any concept of religion or gods, so they would be technically atheist by default (although not necessarily by choice either).

dvpower

Accepted. But there must be a point at which a child can be called a Christian in their own right. I dont know when that is but i'd put it at sometime prior to the point at which the child declares himself an atheist.

Galvasean

dvpower wrote: »

Accepted. But there must be a point at which a child can be called a Christian in their own right. I dont know when that is but i'd put it at sometime prior to the point at which the child declares himself an atheist.

The only time you could accurately describe said child as being Christian is when he/she truthfully desclares themself as such.

dvpower

That happens every sunday, when 'catholic' children recite the creed.

Sam Vimes

drkpower wrote: »

But of course, it is a big deal to some parents; so I dont see the point in upsetting them merely to assert a non-belief, a default position if you will.

Atheism is in its hole the default position in this country. It should be and it's the natural state of humanity but religion takes over mighty quickly. The default position in this country is catholicism. If atheism was the default position then no one would get upset by you telling them that you hold that position. I don't feel the need to tell anyone that I don't believe in unicorns but that's because I don't live in a country where the majority do believe in unicorns, where unicorn non-believers have to go to unicorn rituals because telling their family they don't believe in unicorns might upset them. There are no laws discriminating against me for not believing in unicorns and no one considers me an immoral person for not believing in them. And most importantly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with not believing in God and I see no reason why I should try to hide it from my loved ones. If more people admitted they didn't believe instead of tip toeing around people lest they offend their prejudices the world would be a better place. It's one thing to just not bring it up in conversation but you actively lied to your family, hiding this aspect of your personality from them because you thought it would offend them. You need to stop being ashamed of who you are mate and realise that the problem isn't with you, it's with the people who judge you for not believing in the same sky fairy that they do

drkpower wrote: »

I dont know where you get the suggestion that I believe athesim is something to be ashamed of?! Nothing could be further from the truth; but nor is it something that needs to be trumpeted and dispalyed. The same goes for the religous. If people could leave their belief/non-belief behind their own 4 walls, we would all be better off.

But that's the whole point isn't it? You live behind those four walls and if you live with a religious family they're not going to keep it to themselves, nor should they until you tell them that you don't believe as they do. Again there is a difference between not trumpeting something and actively hiding it as you did

drkpower wrote: »

Homosexuality is hardly non-heterosexuality though, is it?

Its funny; so many people here assert that atheism "is not a belief", is merely a non-belief, is the "default position". But when it suits them, they analogise it to situations (like homosexuality) which are entirely different.

Personally, for me, I treat it like any other non-belief; I ignore it, except where it harms or adversely affects me. But why I might want to upset a loved one to assert something which is of so little relevance is beyond me.

Atheism is like homosexuality in that it's a personality trait that is still considered shameful by many people. If someone is gay it might upset their family but it's part of who they are and there's nothing wrong with it so they shouldn't have to hide it from their parents. And in a country where the majority do believe in God and where atheism is very much not the default position, not sharing the beliefs of my parents is part of who I am. We don't need to hide our non-belief as if it's something to be ashamed of, we need to tell people so more people, believers and closet atheists, will realise that it's nothing to be ashamed of. Then maybe we'll get some of these political changes you keep going on about

ChocolateSauce

"Whew, I was worried for a while there!"

ChocolateSauce

dvpower wrote: »

That happens every sunday, when 'catholic' children recite the creed.

If I got my kid to recite the Communist Manifesto every Sunday, it doesn't make him a communist, just a very fast reader.

dvpower

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

If I got my kid to recite the Communist Manifesto every Sunday, it doesn't make him a communist, just a very fast reader.

Would anyone like to offer a suggestion as to when one might be considered a Christian? Does one need to be over 18?

philologos

dvpower wrote: »

Would anyone like to offer a suggestion as to when one might be considered a Christian? Does one need to be over 18?

Even if you did, it wouldn't particularly affect the question of when the Christian community regard someone as a Christian.

Sam Vimes

Jakkass wrote: »

Even if you did, it wouldn't particularly affect the question of when the Christian community regard someone as a Christian.

Of course not, they claim the kids long before the age of reason. There's no point taking a risk by waiting until they can make decisions for themselves before telling them they can't really be good and they'll burn for eternity unless accept your religious beliefs

philologos

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Of course not, they claim the kids long before the age of reason. There's no point taking a risk by waiting until they can make decisions for themselves before telling them they can't really be good and they'll burn for eternity unless accept your religious beliefs

Believe it or not Sam, I'm somewhat in agreement. It's very difficult to assess if a child has serious and committed faith in God. It is largely something that develops when someone grows up.

The disagreement comes in my feeling that children should be taught about Christianity.

dvpower

Jakkass wrote: »

The disagreement comes in my feeling that children should be taught about Christianity.

Aw crap. Do we have to go there again? I was just asking at what point can one be considered a Christian (if one professes christianity)?

ChocolateSauce

dvpower wrote: »

Would anyone like to offer a suggestion as to when one might be considered a Christian? Does one need to be over 18?

Over 18? Not at all. I think that as soon as they can explain in some detail why they believe what they claim to believe, and defend it from attack, then they can be considered as having the ability to think for themselves. There is no clear-cut age and it depends on the child. I would stress that they mustn't simply be parroting the opinions of others, and whether or not they are is difficult to assess.

Overblood

^That's a lot of pressure to put on a child with minimal life experience.

You can never ever control what parents tell their kids in the privacy of their own home, in the same way that the illegality of heroin cannot stop me from injecting a syringe into my eyeball in front of my PC right now.

It's the job of the schoolteacher to set things straight. This whole "parent telling kids about religion" issue is outside anyone's grasp.

dvpower

Jakkass wrote: »

Even if you did, it wouldn't particularly affect the question of when the Christian community regard someone as a Christian.

When would that be? Come to think of it, who are the christian community? Are ordainary cultural christians included in this or just the born again and serious ones like yourself?

Overblood

dvpower wrote: »

When would that be? Come to think of it, who are the christian community? Are ordainary cultural christians included in this or just the born again and serious ones like yourself?

I'm guessing that a christian is essentially somebody who believes in jesus' divinity and lives by his moral code?

dvpower

Overblood wrote: »

I'm guessing that a christian is essentially somebody who believes in jesus' divinity and lives by his moral code?

So is that the majority of people who call themselves christians in or out?

Overblood

Well since the majority of Irish homes (that I have visited anyway) have a picture of blue-eyes jesus on their walls, I'm guessing that makes them christian.