Campaign for reason from the RSA

ninty9er

Basically this is off the back of the letter I posted elsewehere lastnight. There seems to be no reasoning with the RSA at the moment and the sooner it cops on that young male drivers are only a part of the driving population and that all campaigns should be aimed at all drivers.

I have attached it with one significant change in part C: Changing "any" to "many" in the brackets.

Again. Feel free to edit. It'll cost you between 8-10 envelopes and stamps, depending on what part of the coutry you live in. Less if you live in Meath West, Dún Laoghaire or Dublin North West.

It is now in Word 2003 format as I have managed to get through the day without collapsing of the heat.

Gary ITR

I'll stick this for a few days, this campaign can be discussed here but if I see any off topic posts or arguing or any going against the forum charter we will be banning people without warning. This is the only warning that will be posted on thread.

Berty

Fantastic letter and extremely well worded.

I suggest that from reading it there is not enough emphasis placed on the premise that Learner Drivers can be ANY AGE.

I know it was mentioned but I think it deserves more credence.

I cannot comment too much as I speak from the 25+ bracket which means Im obviously a safe driver. :rolleyes:

Junior #8

Excellent letter, there is an excellent thread about the campaign
maybe we have something good coming along here.
The question is, is it safe for me to drive and get one of these printed off if my girlfriend is in the car?

Seth Brundle

looks good - some possible modifications?

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D) These opinions make no accommodation for the fact that there are men and women in this country who were given driving licences simply because they requested them, rather than having taken a practical (or theory) test. There are fully licenced drivers on our roads that have no inkling about roundabout usage, a seriously dangerous situation.

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D) These opinions make no accommodation for the fact that there are men and women in this country who were given driving licences simply because they requested them, rather than having taken a practical (or theory) test (most notably your own chairman). There are fully licenced drivers on our roads that have no inkling about roundabout usage, a seriously dangerous situation.

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E) If road safety is paramount, all drivers with full licences should be equal under law, and if that law should be changed to introduce restrictions, they should apply to all drivers be they 20 or 40!

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E) If road safety is paramount, all drivers with full licences should be equal under law, and if that law should be changed to introduce restrictions, they should apply to all drivers be they 20 or 60; male or female!

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F) The Taoiseach recently saw fit to appoint, for the first time, a Minister with responsibility for Road Safety, his duty as a holder of public office is to the public interest, following recent comments, I’m not sure the same can be said for Mr. Byrne.

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F) The Taoiseach recently saw fit to appoint, for the first time, a Minister with responsibility for Road Safety, his duty as a holder of public office is to the public interest. Following recent comments, I’m not sure the same can be said for Mr. Byrne.

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I’ll leave you with a thought. Has it occurred to the RSA that young males are more likely to die driving a car because they rack up more driving hours than anyone else on the road? Statistical significance has been completely ignored by the RSA, and I would encourage it to radically rethink its policy if it wishes to reach ALL drivers. There is also a growing body of thought that suggests single vehicle accidents (many of which young male deaths fall under) may be suicide.

to

I’ll leave you with a final thought. Has it occurred to the RSA that young males are more likely to die driving a car because they rack up more driving hours than anyone else on the road (any source?)? Statistical significance has been completely ignored by the RSA, and I would encourage it to radically rethink its policy if it wishes to reach ALL drivers. There is also a growing body of thought that suggests single vehicle accidents (many of which young male deaths fall under) may be suicide. Is the RSA deliberately ignoring this?

Stainless_Steel

Thanks very much for your efforts. I will also send similar letters.

ninty9er

Some good changes there kbannon. I'll leave it to the RSA to disporve the point rather than prove it myself on more hours. I'm not sure it would be completely true, but given the socialising habits of the age group, I would imagine at the times this happens they would be the main road user group along with the Haulage industry.

AugustusMaximus

Thanks for the effort. I'll try to do something on the weekend. I'll probably give it a bit of an edit with more focus on the recent campaigns and what I think the RSA is completely ignoring in regards to road safety.

The irony of Gay Byrne driving on our roads for 40+ years without ever having sat a driving test won't be ignored either.

Seth Brundle

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

The irony of Gay Byrne driving on our roads for 40+ years without ever having sat a driving test won't be ignored either.

I'm fairly sure that he has sat one (no idea if he passed!).
After he was made chairman of the RSA, he admitted having been given a free licence years ago and signed up to take the test.

GTE

Fantastic letter, Ill do some posting today
Thanks for the effort you have put in also!

Sizzler

Don't forget when it is sent it should be copied to a few newspapers as well imho.

Theres a stack of facts that should be stated about Uncle Gaybo and his lack of credibility as chairman of the RSA.

AugustusMaximus

kbannon wrote: »

I'm fairly sure that he has sat one (no idea if he passed!).
After he was made chairman of the RSA, he admitted having been given a free licence years ago and signed up to take the test.

He might have taken the test a few years ago but the guy like other people his age were driving around on a full licence without taking a driving test for years.

While the ban on learner drivers never affected me, I found that initiative very hypocritical from Gay Byrne and anyone else at the RSA who might have got a driving licence without taking the driving test.

fifth

I've been working on this exact campaign for a while now but I think I'll leave it to boards now instead!

biko

Good letter.

Just as said above:

Has it occurred to the RSA that young males are more likely to die driving a car because they rack up more driving hours than anyone else on the road? Statistical significance has been completely ignored by the RSA

You need stats to back this up, particularly as you say it is of statistic significance.

There is also a growing body of thought that suggests single vehicle accidents (many of which young male deaths fall under) may be suicide.

Again, stats or proper reference needed. You can't say things like "people think this" or "suggests". Hard facts only if you take their stats on.

solo1484

ninty9er wrote: »

Basically this is off the back of the letter I posted elsewehere lastnight. There seems to be no reasoning with the RSA at the moment and the sooner it cops on that young male drivers are only a part of the driving population and that all campaigns should be aimed at all drivers.

I have attached it with one significant change in part C: Changing "any" to "many" in the brackets.

Again. Feel free to edit. It'll cost you between 8-10 envelopes and stamps, depending on what part of the coutry you live in. Less if you live in Meath West, Dún Laoghaire or Dublin North West.

It is now in Word 2003 format as I have managed to get through the day without collapsing of the heat.

Excellent stuff, very well written.

ninty9er

Magnus wrote: »

You need stats to back this up, particularly as you say it is of statistic significance.

Again, stats or proper reference needed. You can't say things like "people think this" or "suggests". Hard facts only if you take their stats on.

If it's good enough for Gay Byrne, it's good enough for someone unqualified like me whose job it definitely isn't to look into this stuff.

Like I already said, it should be up to the RSA which is professionally charged with road safety to look at the root cause of each accident. There has been very little proof to show that wrecklessness is the cause of these deaths even though young males are the main victims of road deaths.

Causation and correlation etc..etc...

mumblin deaf ro

My advice would be to take out the personal criticisms as they will be disregarded and will in fact make your otherwise cogent arguments seem less convincing. I'd suggest:

I write on the above topic following Mr. Byrne’s recent comments regarding engine size, curfews and other matters in relation to young male drivers. It have a few factual points to make.
A) Engine size bears very little relevance to the performance of many cars available in Ireland today. There are Volkswagen Group 1.4 litre engines available in the VW Golf, Passat, Audi A3 and various Seat models that are capable of producing 160bhp and attaining a speed of 100km/h in 8 seconds and continuing to 220km/h whereas there are 2 litre engines available in such vehicles as the Ford Focus which will take 11.5 seconds to get to 100km/h and max out at a much lower 180km/h. These figures are according to manufacturer specifications in both cases.
If the RSA wants to make strides in road safety, it needs to target behaviours rather than genders and age groups in its campaigns. The “He drives, she dies” campaign makes no reference to any other demographic as drivers than young males.
D) These opinions make no accommodation for the fact that there are men and women in this country who were given driving licences simply because they requested them, rather than having taken a practical (or theory) test. There are fully licenced drivers on our roads that have no inkling about roundabout usage, a seriously dangerous situation.
E) If road safety is paramount, all drivers with full licences should be equal under law, and if that law should be changed to introduce restrictions, they should apply to all drivers.
I) The RSA (or department of Road Safety should it subsume the RSA at some date) would do well to adopt a model similar to the UK where vehicles are classed by insurance group based on power to weight and not by an irrelevant arbiter such as engine size.

I’ll leave you with a thought. Has it occurred to the RSA that young males are more likely to die driving a car because they rack up more driving hours than anyone else on the road? Statistical significance has been completely ignored by the RSA, and I would encourage it to radically rethink its policy if it wishes to reach ALL drivers. There is also a growing body of thought that suggests single vehicle accidents (many of which young male deaths fall under) may be suicide.

(Q: any evidence for this?)

ninty9er

A quick google will show it's becoming an area of research down under. Things don't become areas of research for no reason.

AugustusMaximus

ninty9er wrote: »

A quick google will show it's becoming an area of research down under. Things don't become areas of research for no reason.

Its almost guaranteed that a large minority of deaths on the road are due to suicide. A lot of these single car accidents IMO are suicide. Of course, no one wants to tell it as it is for the family's sake and for the chance that a declaration of suicide would void life insurance policies etc.

I know a person who had a crash with a woman who drove head on into him on purpose.

ChristyCent

Dont forget to mention this!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-drank-and-drove-home-from-late-late-says-gay-1801757.html

AugustusMaximus

ChristyCent wrote: »

Dont forget to mention this!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/i-drank-and-drove-home-from-late-late-says-gay-1801757.html

The man has no business at all acting in the role he has with the RSA.

Beta Ray Bill

ninty9er wrote: »

Basically this is off the back of the letter I posted elsewehere lastnight. There seems to be no reasoning with the RSA at the moment and the sooner it cops on that young male drivers are only a part of the driving population and that all campaigns should be aimed at all drivers.

I have attached it with one significant change in part C: Changing "any" to "many" in the brackets.

Again. Feel free to edit. It'll cost you between 8-10 envelopes and stamps, depending on what part of the coutry you live in. Less if you live in Meath West, Dún Laoghaire or Dublin North West.

It is now in Word 2003 format as I have managed to get through the day without collapsing of the heat.

I also sent a letter to the RSA local news papers and the minister for transport about the RSA

my letter is not as good as yours,
I got a reply from him though, and your right, it seems that he just will not listen

He's a joke of a person and I wouldn't even entertain the notion writing to him again. My next letter along with this one will be to ever TD and counciller in the country, about how crap this guy is and how much he needs to be fired.

RSA is a waste of taxpayers money in my opinion.

EDIT: I used some quotes from people on this forum in my letter.

DrumSteve

can gay byrne not be the subject of retrospective legal action for admitting to drink driving (and saying thank god he never got caught)?

Saab Ed

DrumSteve wrote: »

can gay byrne not be the subject of retrospective legal action for admitting to drink driving (and saying thank god he never got caught)?

Good point. You'd never get away with saying

" Years ago we used to rape women all the time. It wasnt really rape though, it was just that they didnt want to..you know.... Anyway sure all the lads were at it at the time. Sure you'd drag her round the back of the dance hall and give her one if she wanted to or not. The lads would give you a right hard time if you didnt get the leg over. "

Now imagine the head of the rape crisis centre coming out with that today !!!! The whole things a farce

Seth Brundle

To take a case, there would need to be proof!

enda1

(I'm being Devil's advocate here by the way...)

They are not trying to target all drivers. They feel that by targeting one group, the group they feel is most dangerous and vulnerable they will have the biggest impact on road deaths.

They feel that the number of fatal crashes involving young males is highly disproportionate and thus needs to be tackled strongest.

It is widely known and believed that target advertising is very effective, if the ad is general people are less likely to pay attention, take it on board.

The ads attack the male's ego and boost the female's. The female is becoming more empowered in modern society and now has the chance to stand up and be listened to. The ad gives the push to women/girls to say NO!
And hits guys where it hurts.

They feel that even though the advertising is deliberately and obviously discriminatory, if it reduces road deaths then it is acceptable!

(Again I repeat, devil's advocate)

Eoin

Magnus wrote: »

Good letter.

Has it occurred to the RSA that young males are more likely to die driving a car because they rack up more driving hours than anyone else on the road? Statistical significance has been completely ignored by the RSA

Just as said above:

You need stats to back this up, particularly as you say it is of statistic significance.

Again, stats or proper reference needed. You can't say things like "people think this" or "suggests". Hard facts only if you take their stats on.

These stats were posted here a few weeks ago I believe, but I can't remember what thread it was. I have a feeling they won't prove the point people are hoping for, if I remember it correctly. I'll see if I can dig out the thread.

enda1

Solitaire wrote: »

There are much better places to say that than here Enda1... whole threads where we could all laugh at you for completely missing the whole point. Just like the RSA misses the point of its own existance.

They're randomly targetting a minority based on hearsay, personal misgivings and corrupted statistics. And then trying to force other sections of society to ostracise them for no good reason other than "we said so". In other circumstances this victimisation could easily be construed as a major hate-crime and result in stiff sentencing let alone fines!

But posting it here simply makes it look like you're trying to 'jack the thread. Hijacking an important sticky no less. So I suggest you drop this line of enquiry because this is the last I'll say about it here on this particular thread. If we don't then the next "response" we get could be a mod swinging a Banhammer at our scalps :eek:

Jesus chill mate!

I tried twice to clearly say this is not my opinion but (what I believe to be) theirs.

Secondly, I believe if one wants to send letters to people looking for a change in stance, they should have an idea of what the stance is. The letter won't be listened to if it is focusing on a topic they have already considered so the letter writers should be aware of exactly where they want to focus on.

Earlier in this thread people have been talking about incorrect use of roundabouts as an argument against the RSA as well as their ad's not reaching a wide target.

These people should be aware that the purpose of this campaign is to lower the number of deaths on the roads (being in the wrong lane in a roundabout will not result in a death to a driver, but maybe will to a motorcyclist or cyclist) and the ads are deliberately trying to focus on one segment of the population not all!

I'm aware this is a heated argument but threats, accusations and being personal in the letters will just end up in your argument not being listened to.

Solitaire

Sorry, I was out of line. Didn't actually mean it personally at all, came out horribly wrong and was dragged away from the comp before I had a chance to take it down

mobies

"given rural drivers among my peers are much less likely to have professional lessons than urban dwellers."
This line is as much a stereotype as the "young male drivers" stereotype.

"Rural drivers are killers, take the off our streets."

"dem Towneys cant drive proper round these parts."

All learners are as all as bad as each other.

Being urban has nothing do do with driving ability.
You could say rural people probably are more likely to be experienced out of necessity.

Junior #8

enda1 wrote: »

They feel that even though the advertising is deliberately and obviously discriminatory, if it reduces road deaths then it is acceptable!

(Again I repeat, devil's advocate)

You sound like someone trying to justify a corporation.
"If we purge Central America, we can deliver to our shareholders"