Couple of questions re: cutting

djgaillimh

Hey folks,

I've been on a bulking routine for the last two months, put on about 5-6kgs in that time. The problem is I'm starting to develop a bit of a spare tyre around the waist which I'd like to lose before I go any further, so I've decided to do a three week cut and lose about 4lbs of fat.

I've brought my calorie intake down to about 300 calories below maintenance level and have started a new cardio and weights routine with the goal of burning an extra 300-400 calories per day (so a 600-700 calorie deficit per day, which seems about right for my goal).

Anyway, I'm a little concerned about losing muscle mass during this period so what I'm wondering is this:

1. Does the body always burn excess fat before it starts to catabolise the muscle? ie am I safe to cut for three weeks (at 1 hour of cardio and weights per day) without losing what little muscle I've put on?

2. Should I keep my protein intake high? While bulking I was hitting about 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. I've worked out that I can still take in about 1g per pound and keep my calorie intake low but I don't know if this is the correct way of doing it!

Cheers.

EileenG

There is a lot of nonsense talked about starvation mode and how if you drop your calories your body will either eat all its muscles, or develop some weird mechanism so that the less you eat, the more weight you put on...

If you are working out and using your muscles, your body will assume you need them, and will hold onto them as much as possible. Bodybuilders who are at 3-% bodyfat are in a different category, they have so little fat that if they are in a calorie deficit, there's nothing to lose except muscle. For someone with a spare tire, you can safely eat below maintenance without worrying.

As for starvation mode, the clue is in the name. If you are not starving, obsessed with food, with what and when and how much you will next eat, if you are not wondering how you will get to sleep with the pain in your belly, then it's not an issue. Feeling occasionally peckish is necessary to lose weight. I've never met anyone who could lose fat while force feeding themselves.

Make sure you are getting enough protein, but 1g per pound of bodyweight, or even 1g per pound of lean mass is enough.

corkcomp

EileenG wrote: »

There is a lot of nonsense talked about starvation mode and how if you drop your calories your body will either eat all its muscles, or develop some weird mechanism so that the less you eat, the more weight you put on...

If you are working out and using your muscles, your body will assume you need them, and will hold onto them as much as possible. Bodybuilders who are at 3-% bodyfat are in a different category, they have so little fat that if they are in a calorie deficit, there's nothing to lose except muscle. For someone with a spare tire, you can safely eat below maintenance without worrying.

As for starvation mode, the clue is in the name. If you are not starving, obsessed with food, with what and when and how much you will next eat, if you are not wondering how you will get to sleep with the pain in your belly, then it's not an issue. Feeling occasionally peckish is necessary to lose weight. I've never met anyone who could lose fat while force feeding themselves.

Make sure you are getting enough protein, but 1g per pound of bodyweight, or even 1g per pound of lean mass is enough.

All of the above is very true (but I wouldnt agree you need to be hungry to lose weight - ever), people tend to think if they dont eat five meals a day and fill up before bed that their bodies will turn catabolic .. this is very unlikely if there are enough fat stores available

ragg

Keep your protein intake quite high, 1g per lbs. Cut your carbs down. You should lean out pretty quick & maintain your muscle.
Keep your training relatively similar to what you are currently doing.

djgaillimh

Cool, thanks for the replies. I'll stick with what I'm doing so. So much pseudo-science out there with regards bodybuilding it's hard to know what to believe!

john_cappa

realistically there is little point doing a cut to lose 4lb of fat

djgaillimh

Well I know most people would rather keep building and then cut for 8 weeks or so, but that wouldn't be sustainable for me. I don't enjoy extended cardio sessions and I really hate having to count my calories like this. There's no way I could keep it up for a month or two.

I'd rather do it in manageable cycles of ~2 months bulking and two weeks cutting.

corkcomp

djgaillimh wrote: »

Well I know most people would rather keep building and then cut for 8 weeks or so, but that wouldn't be sustainable for me. I don't enjoy extended cardio sessions and I really hate having to count my calories like this. There's no way I could keep it up for a month or two.

I'd rather do it in manageable cycles of ~2 months bulking and two weeks cutting.

do you plan on constantly cycling between bulking + cutting? why dont you just eat around maintenance (so neither bulk or cut as such) and lift heavy weights?? you may build a little muscle and if you lose any weight it will probably be fat !!

djgaillimh

corkcomp wrote: »

do you plan on constantly cycling between bulking + cutting? why dont you just eat around maintenance (so neither bulk or cut as such) and lift heavy weights?? you may build a little muscle and if you lose any weight it will probably be fat !!

Early days so I haven't made any decisions yet. It's likely that I'll just assess it as I go along... dependent on results, y'know.

It's working okay so far though, 11lbs since the start of July, most of which is muscle.

There was already a little bit of a beer gut there before I started. In hindsight I probably should have worked that off before I started bulking but I was too eager to get in there and start lifting!

john_cappa

djgaillimh wrote: »

It's working okay so far though, 11lbs since the start of July, most of which is muscle.

How do you know?

I doubt it mate. If 5 lb of it was muscle it would be amazing progress. Muscle does not grow that quick with out assistance.

Cutting for two weeks will do jack **** bar losing water weight. It takes your body a few weeks to begin to burn fat efficiently again. You can just bulk one week and magically cut the next week.

Continue as you are if you want but in six months time you will realise you have being going about it the wrong way

john_cappa

corkcomp wrote: »

do you plan on constantly cycling between bulking + cutting? why dont you just eat around maintenance (so neither bulk or cut as such) and lift heavy weights?? you may build a little muscle and if you lose any weight it will probably be fat !!

eating at maintenance means you wont build muscle and you wont lose fat

corkcomp

john_cappa wrote: »

eating at maintenance means you wont build muscle and you wont lose fat

a certain ammount of recomposition is possible .. fat stores will be used to provide energy .. if your eating at maintenance and lifting heavy the energy has to come from somewhere ..

Nate--IRL--

corkcomp wrote: »

a certain ammount of recomposition is possible .. fat stores will be used to provide energy .. if your eating at maintenance and lifting heavy the energy has to come from somewhere ..

Uh.. food?

Nate

104494431

ragg wrote: »

Keep your protein intake quite high, 1g per lbs. Cut your carbs down. You should lean out pretty quick & maintain your muscle.
Keep your training relatively similar to what you are currently doing.

There are a lot of opinions out there and I have to ask if you mean 1gram per pound of body mass or 1gram per pound of lean body mass.

Meaning if you are 200lbs and 15% bodyfat there's a difference of 30grams of protein depending on which approach you take. That's a lot for a difference of opinion.

Just a thought.

ragg

lean body weight if you can get an accurate reading.

30g * 4 = 120kcals so its probably not a huge issue for a 200lbs guy.
but i get what you are saying. Lean body weight is the ideal calculation.

djgaillimh

john_cappa wrote: »

How do you know?

I doubt it mate. If 5 lb of it was muscle it would be amazing progress. Muscle does not grow that quick with out assistance.

Comparison of weight and bodyfat measurements taken at the start of July and last week indicate that about 6.5lbs of it is muscle. I'm not taking anything other than HMB, creatine and glutamine.

It is good progress though. I'm wondering if it's because I was a little bit underweight when I started? Due to a protracted illness and study I'd been living a very sedentary (but fairly stressed) lifestyle and had done no exercise for about two years prior.

My natural weight before that was 12 stone, I was down to eleven (with the beginnings of a beer belly) when I started bulking so I suspect I had suffered quite a bit of muscular atrophy.

I don't know if that's relevant but the bodyfat measurements are accurate so I'm either a freak... or I'm lying and I'm pumped so full of steroids I might fly into a rage and crush your skull with my bare hands just for questioning me :pac:

kevpants

I'd love to see a Venn diagram of the people who have managed to lose fat while eating 7 meals a day and taking on 300g of protein vs the people who just advise people it's the way to go.

corkcomp

kevpants wrote: »

I'd love to see a Venn diagram of the people who have managed to lose fat while eating 7 meals a day and taking on 300g of protein vs the people who just advise people it's the way to go.

+1 would love to see that chart too a lot of the advice given on some topics is not based on the posters experience but rather some copy and paste crap ..

Roper

If you think about collectivism and the internet, you have to accept that the IQ of the web is 100. I wouldn't take advice of someone with an IQ of 100, even I'm smarter than him.

Degsy

IMO,you wanna lose fat you got to eat less..and it doesnt happen overnight either,i dropped 500 calories a day from my diet and gave up drinking completely and it took three months before the weight started to come off.
The most noticible difference was when i stopped taking protein shakes during the day and before bed,saving them for pwo only.
Fat will come off when you adjust your diet and up your excercise but unless you want to totally knacker yourself in the process it's got to happen slowly.

djgaillimh

That's interesting re: the bedtime shake... might cut that out.

A few people are taking issue with the idea of a two week cut but this is all provisional anyway and is entirely dependent on what kind of results I get. If I'm not there after two weeks, I'll cut a little while longer... if I can stand it. Three days of this and I hate it already!

I really want a big ****ing steak with spuds and mushrooms and fried onions.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

I'd love to see a Venn diagram of the people who have managed to lose fat while eating 7 meals a day and taking on 300g of protein vs the people who just advise people it's the way to go.

Right here baby!!

(well 6 meals, not 7 - does that still count??)

Degsy

Hanley wrote: »

Right here baby!!

(well 6 meals, not 7 - does that still count??)

Ah but you were flogging yourself to near-death in the gym and up by the papal cross!

Khannie

Hanley wrote: »

Right here baby!!

(well 6 meals, not 7 - does that still count??)

+1. 6 meals a day, but only 150g of protein. Hard eating that much tuna / chicken / meat / whatever and when I'm losing weight I prefer eating to shakes.