Golf GTI v Golf R32

YozzerHughes

Lads interested if anyone has driven both of the above, Mark V model. How big is the difference in performance? Essentially in the real world do you really get to use the extra engine capacity and see a return on the extra initial outlay, tax, insurance petrol etc etc.

If you do great, just interested in anyone experience.

Thanks

tossy

In a nutshell.

R32

Pro's

4motion
V6 sound
Instant pull,maximum torque available at very low revs
Some great bargains around due to the depreciation and recession
DSG

Cons

Tax
Petrol (although not as bad as some might think)
Re sale (who cares)

GTI

Pros

Remap will see R32 like figures out of the box
Also some great bargains about
Decent tax
Good MPG obtainable if you try hard.
DSG

Cons

2wd can struggle in the wet to get the power down,esp after a remap.
No V6 sound (i'm bias)

civildefence

the R32 has launch control also

eman66

civildefence wrote: »

the R32 has launch control also

GTI has too.

BArra

the difference is chalk and cheese, once u drive an R32, you would fall in love with the V6 growl, its sound is addictive

the stock GTI sounds... fairly crap whimpy really, a remap would help yes, but without bolt on mods which would cost €€€, it would still sound fairly limp

if you can stomach the tax costs of the R32, go for it

but afaik mk5 R32's are still going for over 20k, so they are hardly cheap as chips just yet!!

tossy

Launch control is not a real world tool though,as you end looking like a tool sitting at the lights waiting for the green light.

Drive wise the MK5 GTi with the rear independent suspension set up isn't that far off the R,but the 4motion on the R married with the rear independent suspension gives you that extra bit of confidence especially in the wet/cold.

unkel

tossy wrote: »

Instant pull,maximum torque available at very low revs

But the R32 breaths normally. It only has a bit more torque than the turbo GTI and the GTI has the torque available at much lower revs (1800) than the R32 (2800). That said, there's no replacement for displacement

W12, anyone?

dunkindonuts

Just get a gti and get it remapped for approx 300 euro and you get 60bhp extra thats what i did and its a rocket

Cheaper insurance etc than r32.

SomeDude

What puts me off the R32 is the positioning of the exhausts. IMO it looks very tacky and boy racerey.

YozzerHughes

Cheers for the replies. Thanks for the feedback lads. Reckon GTI with remap might be the way to go.

Big Nasty

Go for the R32 - end of!

The Gti is great but powerful FWD (especially VAG FWD) are ropey as fcuk.

4Motion all the way for me! Plus V6 over 4? No competition IMO!

BArra

anyone saying a remapped gti is as good as an R32 is kidding themselves on all levels, throw a few mods on the r32 and it will blow the gti out of the water yet again

i suggest you go drive both and make up your mind that way, getting opinions on a forum can only give you an idea on what to expect, you gotta drive them

TheBazman

As regards mods - I was reading Evo today where they have a new Focus RS and a Mountune Focus ST - which was faster?....the ST. So dont dismiss the modding option on the GTI

Saying that ...I'd still go for the R32 purely for the sound

dunkindonuts

BArra wrote: »

anyone saying a remapped gti is as good as an R32 is kidding themselves on all levels, throw a few mods on the r32 and it will blow the gti out of the water yet again

i suggest you go drive both and make up your mind that way, getting opinions on a forum can only give you an idea on what to expect, you gotta drive them

Yeah agreed but just look at the price difference and cost difference. i love my cars but r32 is just not worth it at all compared to gti with mods. well its in my price bracket so i have one. if i had more money next car would be m3 anyday

Kev.

R32 if youve got the money and can afford it-I love my GTI but would swap it anyday if I could afford it....

BTW a PROPER remap will cost you ,people tell you to get a remap only 300 euro sounds good but they havent a clue really.....

Heres a list you would need to do it properly

High flow cat looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOLF-MK5-2-0T-GTI-EXHAUST-MILLTEK-SPORTS-CAT-D-PIPE_W0QQitemZ230269131463QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item359d1c1ac7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
ignore the price, Milltek are crazy expensive. Email these guys for a quote on getting one made. Should be under £300
http://www.exhaustsuk.co.uk/frames.html

Then the cat back exhaust (i.e. from your new high flow cat, back)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MK5-VW-GOLF-2-0-TURBO-GTI-FSI-CAT-BACK-EXHAUST-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ220347694636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item334dbefe2c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Then air filter
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pipercross-air-filter-VW-Golf-Mk5-GTI-2-0T-Turbo-FSI_W0QQitemZ290169996121QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item438f7ac359&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Then a 255lt/hr fuel pump. Costs £80 approx
Then hotter spark plugs @ about £40

And of coarse the proper remap. Should be about 280bhp then.

Regards,

kev

Kev.

BArra wrote: »

anyone saying a remapped gti is as good as an R32 is kidding themselves on all levels, throw a few mods on the r32 and it will blow the gti out of the water yet again

i suggest you go drive both and make up your mind that way, getting opinions on a forum can only give you an idea on what to expect, you gotta drive them

+1

unkel

Kev. wrote: »

Then a 255lt/hr fuel pump.

:cool:

That would sustain a constant speed of 255km/h (for ease of calculations - so 1km/l) so say 2MPG giving a range of about 12 minutes. Are we talking VW Golf or VW Veyron here?

Zonda999

The costs on the R32 gotta just be the biggest turn off for any R32 buyer at the moment tbh! Road tax is now €1566 a year and even more if you want to tax it in 3 month stints! Then theres insurance, at a time when it is rising, they'd dole out a hefty premium for a R32 owner. OP, a remapped GTi would certainly cost much less to own and whereas it mightn't drive as well as a R32, it'll still be very entertaining. It'll be way easier to sell a few years down the line too

VW seem to have given up on the idea of a 6 cylinder Golf too. For the Mk6, the R series golf will just be a remapped 2.0TSi, the same engine as a Mk6 or 5, GTi.

BArra

Kev. wrote: »

R32 if youve got the money and can afford it-I love my GTI but would swap it anyday if I could afford it....

BTW a PROPER remap will cost you ,people tell you to get a remap only 300 euro sounds good but they havent a clue really.....

Heres a list you would need to do it properly

High flow cat looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOLF-MK5-2-0T-GTI-EXHAUST-MILLTEK-SPORTS-CAT-D-PIPE_W0QQitemZ230269131463QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item359d1c1ac7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
ignore the price, Milltek are crazy expensive. Email these guys for a quote on getting one made. Should be under £300
http://www.exhaustsuk.co.uk/frames.html

Then the cat back exhaust (i.e. from your new high flow cat, back)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MK5-VW-GOLF-2-0-TURBO-GTI-FSI-CAT-BACK-EXHAUST-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ220347694636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item334dbefe2c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Then air filter
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pipercross-air-filter-VW-Golf-Mk5-GTI-2-0T-Turbo-FSI_W0QQitemZ290169996121QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item438f7ac359&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Then a 255lt/hr fuel pump. Costs £80 approx
Then hotter spark plugs @ about £40

And of coarse the proper remap. Should be about 280bhp then.

Regards,

kev

dont forget an intercooler to stem the new higher temperature in the engine, if it gets too hot the car's ecu will cut a lot of power in order to keep the engine safe

in saying that i wouldnt agree that a remap for 300 will show no gains to a stock car, most turbo car's arent anyway near their potential, a remap simply opens up the nm torque range and ups the horseys, they are still proper remaps.

i havent specifically looked into the gti ones that are available, but for other turbo cars their are plenty of plug and play handheld units that you can simple do the job yourself and the results are breathtaking, totally transforming the car

the other bolt on mods would help to let the car breath better and handle the extra power more easilly

Matt Simis

unkel wrote: »

:cool:

That would sustain a constant speed of 255km/h (for ease of calculations - so 1km/l) so say 2MPG giving a range of about 12 minutes. Are we talking VW Golf or VW Veyron here?

I think you have oversimplified that a tad!

255lph is the standard and realistically minimum after market fuel pump upgrade. "255lph" is usually rated at a PSI far lower than the required PSI of the fuel injection system too, ie a Walbro 255's effective LPH can be as low as 190lph. I have a Denso 280lph at 70PSI fuel pump and Injector Duty Cycle approaches 80% (IDC shouldnt exceed 80% for optimum spray pattern from the injectors, reliability etc), on a 6 cylinder Twin Turbo. IDC on the stock pump was 97%..

Legit high power, high pressure Fuel pumps are expensive, the posters £80 guideline is quite optimistic.

Im fairly meh on Golf's, but would have to go with a R32 given such a choice. GTI= FWD, super common and looks like a 1.4 "Golf GT", exhaust note is marginal, no thanks.
Just a pity the R32 is almost untuneable.

EDIT: For reference, when upgrading to larger turbos, the Twin Turbo Supra uses twin Walbro 255 pumps (or equivalent).

unkel

Matt Simis wrote: »

I think you have oversimplified that a tad!

Really?

bumble1

i have driven both the GTI is alright nothing that special to be honest it was a bit slow for my liking the R32 it lovely and the sound is to die for but still hasnt got great performance i also think the R32 is VERY VERY VERY expensive for what it is ans the GTI is probably the better buy but if you dont mind getting attention and arent bothered by badge kudos then the Ford Focus ST is as fast as the normal R32 vheaper to buy and tax and also sounds really nice or the New RS Focus is unreal . if your buying a gti and skoda or seat cars which are the same and a lot cheaper and better buys let us know what u end up with

dunkindonuts

Kev. wrote: »

R32 if youve got the money and can afford it-I love my GTI but would swap it anyday if I could afford it....

BTW a PROPER remap will cost you ,people tell you to get a remap only 300 euro sounds good but they havent a clue really.....

Heres a list you would need to do it properly

High flow cat looks like this:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GOLF-MK5-2-0T-GTI-EXHAUST-MILLTEK-SPORTS-CAT-D-PIPE_W0QQitemZ230269131463QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item359d1c1ac7&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
ignore the price, Milltek are crazy expensive. Email these guys for a quote on getting one made. Should be under £300
http://www.exhaustsuk.co.uk/frames.html

Then the cat back exhaust (i.e. from your new high flow cat, back)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MK5-VW-GOLF-2-0-TURBO-GTI-FSI-CAT-BACK-EXHAUST-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ220347694636QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item334dbefe2c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Then air filter
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pipercross-air-filter-VW-Golf-Mk5-GTI-2-0T-Turbo-FSI_W0QQitemZ290169996121QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item438f7ac359&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A2140%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Then a 255lt/hr fuel pump. Costs £80 approx
Then hotter spark plugs @ about £40

And of coarse the proper remap. Should be about 280bhp then.

Regards,

kev

I got mine remapped and its been tested at 270kph. I think thats enough. if the chip is 280bhp then its going to be a little rocket. but do you not think it will cause any problems to the car. are they built for going 280bhp??

cabrwab

Op if you can afford both running cost tax insurance then test drive both if you can then decide.

BArra

bumble1 wrote: »

i have driven both the GTI is alright nothing that special to be honest it was a bit slow for my liking the R32 it lovely and the sound is to die for but still hasnt got great performance i also think the R32 is VERY VERY VERY expensive for what it is ans the GTI is probably the better buy but if you dont mind getting attention and arent bothered by badge kudos then the Ford Focus ST is as fast as the normal R32 vheaper to buy and tax and also sounds really nice or the New RS Focus is unreal . if your buying a gti and skoda or seat cars which are the same and a lot cheaper and better buys let us know what u end up with

Mate can you please stop posting absolute rubbish, you are a serious ST fanboy and i am also, but in no way is a stock ST on par to a stock R32, AWD vs FWD, just look at the stock 0-62 times.

Its there in black and white for you to see.

We understand you own an ST and like the car.

Take note also that paragraphs and fullstops are your friend, makes reading lines upon lines much, much easier :eek:

stealthyspeeder

I would take an R32. The noise is fabulous, the grip must be excellent in the corners with AWD.

However if you are looking at these, you are looking at hothatches, while both are well made and get great reviews, unless you are worried about "badge kudos" then I think you should widen the search, as my personal opinion is that VW's are overpriced in the hothatch market.

The cars you mention are subtlish (by hot hatch standerds!), so I would throw in the mix, the ST (in blue!) the S3, the 130i, Cupra/ Leon FR, a Renaultsport Megane. There is another one, but after the bumble1 was called an ST fanbboy, for mentioning his car, the ST, I'll let the oppertunity go!

2 Espressi

My heart says R32, but my wallet would say GTi. The shove from any point of the rev range on the V6 is more addictive than crack, and the noise, the noise, it's one of the sweetest soundtracks on earth, the seats are the best that I've ever sat in (which probably says more about my limited exposure than the quality I guess! ),

That said, for the type of driving I do, and the money I earn, I couldn't afford one. I've had my eye on the MKV GTis since they came out, a nice black 5dr would suit me down to the ground!

omega man

If you can afford and stomach the tax of the R32 then go for it. Dont buy a GTI just because you can 'remap it'. I had a Mazda 3 MPS with 260bhp through the front wheels and even with a LSD and torque control it still spun like mad on anything other than good conditioned dry roads. Personally I would go for a ST or even Leon Cupra before the GTI. By the way i would also go for the S3 over the R32.

smash

how can you go wrong with an R32 at this price http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volkswagen/Golf/R32/200933194896775/advert?channel=CARS

It would cost you 25k min to get a 06 in from the UK

bumble1

the R32 is not worth 60000+ the 0-60 on the normal model is 6.5 seconds

the DSG R32 IS only 5.9 seconds

the GTI is just as good a car

but the Leon and Octavia are just as good and alot cheaper

bumble1

steve06 wrote: »

how can you go wrong with an R32 at this price http://www.carzone.ie/search/Volkswagen/Golf/R32/200933194896775/advert?channel=CARS

It would cost you 25k min to get a 06 in from the UK

thats a bargain i would considering the cheapest 2008 GTI is 23000

tossy

bumble1 wrote: »

the R32 is not worth 60000+ the 0-60 on the normal model is 6.5 seconds

the DSG R32 IS only 5.9 seconds

the GTI is just as good a car

but the Leon and Octavia are just as good and alot cheaper

Who cares about 0-100 times? in the real world none of that matters its all about the driving characteristics and feel of the car,the MK5 GTI is a super car but the R32 is just a different level.Superb sound from the 6 pot,Superb grip from the 4motion and instant power delivery when you plant your foot no matter what gear or speed.

I would agree the S3 is a great alternative for the R,but if people think the R is over priced then check out the S3 prices!!

Having said that i couldn't live without the sound of 6 cylinders in my ear drums everyday

bumble1

yeah but the S3 doesnt have a VW badge on it haha but i nkow the s3 and the R32 are very similar i wouldnt have a S3 over an R32 because the R32 IS better looking . I agree the sound of the R32 is unreal . The GTI beats the R32 but probably has mods.

BArra

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I would take an R32. The noise is fabulous, the grip must be excellent in the corners with AWD.

However if you are looking at these, you are looking at hothatches, while both are well made and get great reviews, unless you are worried about "badge kudos" then I think you should widen the search, as my personal opinion is that VW's are overpriced in the hothatch market.

The cars you mention are subtlish (by hot hatch standerds!), so I would throw in the mix, the ST (in blue!) the S3, the 130i, Cupra/ Leon FR, a Renaultsport Megane. There is another one, but after the bumble1 was called an ST fanbboy, for mentioning his car, the ST, I'll let the oppertunity go!

put the mazda in the mix by all means, i only called him a fanboy because he has been posting some odd stuff lately that is very hard to comprehend, for instance he said his ST 225 beat a BMW M3... :pac:

theres also a lot of misinformation coming from the lad! and i am a MASSIVE focus st fanboy, i know them fairly well

the mazda is a great car and should be put in he mix for sure, but each to their own, i think the mps is as ugly as sin, but everyone is different, i value looks on a car as well as its comfort, power, interior quality, ect ect

OP, id go for the GTI route, have some fun in it and remap and mod it down the line if you want more power, it would be more financially sound on your wallet, unless of course you earn 100k+ a year!! :cool:

Cyrus

tossy wrote: »

Who cares about 0-100 times? in the real world none of that matters its all about the driving characteristics and feel of the car,the MK5 GTI is a super car but the R32 is just a different level.Superb sound from the 6 pot,Superb grip from the 4motion and instant power delivery when you plant your foot no matter what gear or speed.

I would agree the S3 is a great alternative for the R,but if people think the R is over priced then check out the S3 prices!!

Having said that i couldn't live without the sound of 6 cylinders in my ear drums everyday

er its a v6 is it not?

cabrwab

S3 no 2ltr turbo, GTI engine i think

tossy

Cyrus wrote: »

er its a v6 is it not?

The S3 uses the 4pot TFSI engine cyrus.

Cyrus

tossy wrote: »

The S3 uses the 4pot TFSI engine cyrus.

yerriknow

i was talking about the r32

conneem-TT

cabrwab wrote: »

S3 no 2ltr turbo, GTI engine i think

With a bigger turbo, intercooler, stronger internals, upgraded fuel pump amonst other things.

tossy

Cyrus wrote: »

yerriknow

i was talking about the r32

Oh i see i never said the R32 wasn't a V6.

Cyrus

tossy wrote: »

Oh i see i never said the R32 wasn't a V6.

a 6 pot is a 6 cylinder engine, not a v6

tossy

Cyrus wrote: »

a 6 pot is a 6 cylinder engine, not a v6

Errrr...

A pot is slang for a cylinder.A V6 has 6 Cylinders so therefore has 6 pots.

A straight 6 also has 6 cylinders or pots so therefore could be also called a 6 pot,i wouldn't call a V6 (even the narrow angled 15 degree V6 engine found in the R32) a straight 6,but i would call it a six pot.

I know you BMW boys get touchy about that sort of thing

Cyrus

tossy wrote: »

Errrr...

A pot is slang for a cylinder.A V6 has 6 Cylinders so therefore has 6 pots.

A straight 6 also has 6 cylinders or pots so therefore could be also called a 6 pot,i wouldn't call a V6 (even the narrow angled 15 degree V6 engine found in the R32) a straight 6,but i would call it a six pot.

I know you BMW boys get touchy about that sort of thing

never heard a v6 called a 6 pot before, but if thats correct i stand corrected

unkel

Cyrus wrote: »

a 6 pot is a 6 cylinder engine, not a v6

How many cylinders do you think a V6 engine has?

Edit: I'm too slow

upthedub

YozzerHughes wrote: »

Lads interested if anyone has driven both of the above, Mark V model. How big is the difference in performance? Essentially in the real world do you really get to use the extra engine capacity and see a return on the extra initial outlay, tax, insurance petrol etc etc.

If you do great, just interested in anyone experience.

Thanks

Performance..:D

The r32 is miles ahead in performance,there is no comparision.

tossy

Cyrus wrote: »

never heard a v6 called a 6 pot before, but if thats correct i stand corrected

You are spending too much time on BMW-driver

Cyrus

tossy wrote: »

You are spending too much time on BMW-driver

thems my dawgs

Gary ITR

I don't know what's worse the fact that you guys are arguing over what engine a 6 pot is at 11pm of a Friday night or the fact I'm sitting here reading it...

Feck this I'm going to a nightclub

Cyrus

ive a stag tmrw night, saving myself

unkel

Onkle wrote: »

Feck this I'm going to a nightclub

To work cleaning the loos, like?

tossy

I'm in work! If i was off right now you could post up that GT TDI's are better than R32's and that V6 engines are for gay lords and i couldn't car less!