Students suffer due to greed. Have you say

Fantaman

Once more this year DCU has been one of very few colleges in Ireland to finish their year with a profit. This comes at the student expense of an overpriced Canteen and an on-campus shop that assaults students wallets. Not to mention students living on campus who can easily be fined for every new offence they can choose to create.

The student union has failed in this regard so i pose the question.... what can be done??

LongLiveQ&A

Not an awful lot I'd say, the DCU SU seems to dislike upsetting Ferdi at all. With a non-student manager of the Office of Student Life I don't think anything will change for a long time. The SU is the University's lackey as far as I can see. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be proven wrong by Keegan and his new team, only time will tell.

Fantaman

LongLiveQ&A wrote: »

Not an awful lot I'd say, the DCU SU seems to dislike upsetting Ferdi at all. With a non-student manager of the Office of Student Life I don't think anything will change for a long time. The SU is the University's lackey as far as I can see. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be proven wrong by Keegan and his new team, only time will tell.

Keegan was a big part of the SU last year where there were no real changes so i cant see him being inspirational. Conor Mortimers plans were to bring more GAA to DCU which is hardly what DCU needs. Even more emphasis on GAA! There needs to be more student involvement so the real issues can be tackled. Thanks for your comment

giveliberty

I am not one to champion the success of any Students' Union but:

1 - What is wrong with DCU making a profit - would you prefer it make a loss and invariably have to make cutbacks? You can be guaranteed if it had to make cutbacks they would be non-essential student services like other Universities have done?

2 - I agree with you, the canteen is a rip off. Scandalous in fact. Does the SU sit on the committee that awards the contract for the canteen like say they do in almost every other large HEI? UCC, NUIG, ITS are three SUs who have managed to get rid of what was considered undesirable caterers - why can't DCUSU do the same? Or does it sit on these committees? If not, why not? If the canteen is subsidized from capitation it should.

3 - Campus accommodation has INCREASED in price this year. When rents have been falling an average of 17% - why aren't people complaining about this - with the exception of Sligo and Waterford landlords, and purpose built student accommodations have been dropping their prices - in deflationary times what new service has on campus accommodation provided to justify this increase in the rent?

4 - I like fines - they work, most of the time. DCU is actually less draconian in this regard. However - the fines should be listed in the rental agreement and DCU campus accommodation should not be allowed deviate from this.

5 - Student involvement - whilst this in an honourable aspiration, from someone I no doubt has his/her eyes on the presidential office of DCUSU, I must question how much more involvement you want to see in terms of the structures that are already in place? Students have two seats on the governing council, sits on the various academic boards, sits on the disciplinary committee, it has a class rep system, and students sit on the course boards also. Where else could they sit? It could do a sit-down protest but that wouldn't get it very far! The SU sits on the various student services and welfare committees. Are you implying that the SU representatives on these committees are not doing enough to represent your views? What are the views of other students on this? Overall people were satisfied with the SU last year, mind you they did also confirm LongLiveQ&A's belief that the SU is not independent.

My analysis of the SU structures would lead me to believe that the SU is too intimately tied to the University. This has both advantages and disadvantages. Mind you a Union who can't even get access to its own offices at the weekend because the building is locked up should really question the point of its own existence, when its locked into the same working days as the public servants who are paid to liaise with them. You see locking them out of their own offices means they can't get up to anything that isn't monitored! I find it sometimes difficult to find out about the SU structures which is quite annoying. The SU website is terrible and hard to navigate but that old civil service maxim - If people don't know what you're doing, they don't know what you're doing wrong!!!

Students' Unions are all about principles. And the principle is, never act on principle.

H2G2

I do not believe it is correct to use the term "profit" in relation to a public institution. If DCU covers it operating costs and has an excess then this is a good thing for all people associated with the university. Unlike older institutions such as TCD, DCU does not have endowments, etc. to fall back on in lean times... and lean time are only starting for the 3rd level sector.

Prudent financial management is a good thing for us all!

Fantaman

giveliberty wrote: »

I am not one to champion the success of any Students' Union but:

1 - What is wrong with DCU making a profit - would you prefer it make a loss and invariably have to make cutbacks? You can be guaranteed if it had to make cutbacks they would be non-essential student services like other Universities have done?

2 - I agree with you, the canteen is a rip off. Scandalous in fact. Does the SU sit on the committee that awards the contract for the canteen like say they do in almost every other large HEI? UCC, NUIG, ITS are three SUs who have managed to get rid of what was considered undesirable caterers - why can't DCUSU do the same? Or does it sit on these committees? If not, why not? If the canteen is subsidized from capitation it should.

3 - Campus accommodation has INCREASED in price this year. When rents have been falling an average of 17% - why aren't people complaining about this - with the exception of Sligo and Waterford landlords, and purpose built student accommodations have been dropping their prices - in deflationary times what new service has on campus accommodation provided to justify this increase in the rent?

4 - I like fines - they work, most of the time. DCU is actually less draconian in this regard. However - the fines should be listed in the rental agreement and DCU campus accommodation should not be allowed deviate from this.

5 - Student involvement - whilst this in an honourable aspiration, from someone I no doubt has his/her eyes on the presidential office of DCUSU, I must question how much more involvement you want to see in terms of the structures that are already in place? Students have two seats on the governing council, sits on the various academic boards, sits on the disciplinary committee, it has a class rep system, and students sit on the course boards also. Where else could they sit? It could do a sit-down protest but that wouldn't get it very far! The SU sits on the various student services and welfare committees. Are you implying that the SU representatives on these committees are not doing enough to represent your views? What are the views of other students on this? Overall people were satisfied with the SU last year, mind you they did also confirm LongLiveQ&A's belief that the SU is not independent.

My analysis of the SU structures would lead me to believe that the SU is too intimately tied to the University. This has both advantages and disadvantages. Mind you a Union who can't even get access to its own offices at the weekend because the building is locked up should really question the point of its own existence, when its locked into the same working days as the public servants who are paid to liaise with them. You see locking them out of their own offices means they can't get up to anything that isn't monitored! I find it sometimes difficult to find out about the SU structures which is quite annoying. The SU website is terrible and hard to navigate but that old civil service maxim - If people don't know what you're doing, they don't know what you're doing wrong!!!

Students' Unions are all about principles. And the principle is, never act on principle.

Thanks for the response. There was quite a lot to read

As a typical student entering 3rd year i have to say aside from organising balls i dont know what exactly they spend their time doing? Apart from the very polite hello and goodbye yearly e-mails )

WHere i live, shanowen, dropped from 2520 a semester to 2466. While this isnt a lot its certainly welcome and is definitely going in the right direction.

I dont have an issue with DCUs profit its more the manner in which it has been obtained. Or when it is obtained it could be invested back. Living close to UCC i know they have a subsidied food system which makes it much cheaper for students. It cant be somewhat attributed to the fact were situated in the inflated capital can it?

I dont mind fines either its just the way they go about it on campus. Most peole get fined over the christmas break. Thats because you are gone home and they can give a nice detailed sneaky look at your room. Once i was in my house when they inspected it and they hardly even looked.

giveliberty

What DCU needs is a Students' Union with a pair of balls. Plain and simple.

Students need a union that isn't under the watchful eye of college.

It needs a Union that is a campaigning union - not just campaigning in frivolous non student issues but will take on campus accommodation, will stand up to Ferdy and the overpriced canteen - what exactly do they need to be afraid off.

Now don't get me wrong, confrontation is not always the answer - what I suggest above should ONLY be done when all other avenues are exhausted.

I find certain members of DCUSU (not all I stress to add) rather naive, and not terribly clued in all the time on various issues.

But that is the Students' Union the students of DCU voted for when the voted for the current constitution .

Fantaman

giveliberty wrote: »

What DCU needs is a Students' Union with a pair of balls. Plain and simple.

Students need a union that isn't under the watchful eye of college.

It needs a Union that is a campaigning union - not just campaigning in frivolous non student issues but will take on campus accommodation, will stand up to Ferdy and the overpriced canteen - what exactly do they need to be afraid off.

Now don't get me wrong, confrontation is not always the answer - what I suggest above should ONLY be done when all other avenues are exhausted.

I find certain members of DCUSU (not all I stress to add) rather naive, and not terribly clued in all the time on various issues.

But that is the Students' Union the students of DCU voted for when the voted for the current constitution .

Braver student union and one which focuses their attention on important issues i agree. Whats important to me might not be important to someone else though

Juxta Dublin

Well done DCU. Balancing the books is especially important in this fiscal environment.

D.R cowboy

Note to self 2 keep away from that 1980's built place" looks dogey

Fantaman

Fantaman wrote: »

Once more this year DCU has been one of very few colleges in Ireland to finish their year with a profit.

A hard thing to do in these turbulent times, I would not like to be in their shoes...

This comes at the student expense of an overpriced Canteen and an on-campus shop that assaults students wallets.

Quick walk to Eurospar will give you a 5.99 dinner or a full roll for around 3.50

Not to mention students living on campus who can easily be fined for every new offence they can choose to create.

Campus Res have started to calm down on their finings but at the end of the day, 5 students could pretty easily wreck an apartment...they give you notice of when to make the apartment spotless and as a university student, surely you can clean a place in 2 weeks...

The student union has failed in this regard so i pose the question.... what can be done??

Student Union should all be axed before the end of their terms if they are doing no good this year, there should definitely be some sort of a review process, definitely reduce the sabaticals anyways...I am getting very very sick of paying them and not seeing anything out of it except a few "balls"...they could be organised better without the SU...sorry alan & co

If you are thinking students are suffering now, they would be suffering more if DCU couldn't afford to pay lecturers...

giveliberty

Fantaman wrote: »

Braver student union and one which focuses their attention on important issues i agree. Whats important to me might not be important to someone else though

Does the constitution allow for petitionable referenda?

monument

I have to disagree on the issue of food and shops.

On campus you pay for convenience. You're not being forced to eat or use the shops on campus. It's just like for everybody else, use the local shop and expect to pay for it, go down the road and pay less.

Shops on the Ballymun Road are something like 450 meters from the main canteen, and the shop on Shanowen Road is under 600 meters away. There's also a reasonably decent shopping centre (Omni) less than 1.5km away from DCU. Buy food in the above shops or make it your self at home and you can eat in the canteen, or the Street in the HG building, or in the Hub etc. On a good day there's the area around the canteen, the greens, or the park.

Hell, go out on the Ballymun road and you can get the bus up to Ikea in about 10mins -- regular meatballs for €4.95, small for €3.95, or large for €6.25. Their hot and soft drinks are €1 including free refills.

A non-consecutive Student 5 Day Rambler costs €15.00, or €3 a day. The 30 day one costs €75, or €2.50 a day. It gives you unlimited use of normal Dublin Bus buses any day you use it. So, you can get to most of the city and back for €3 a day, and that opens up a lot of shops to you. And for anybody who pays €1.60 each way twice a day, that's a saving of 20c just for your commute!

I can see where there is a problem if you have mobility problems, everybody else has a large choice.

giveliberty

Monument does have a point. And what about all the students whose mothers pack their socks with food before leaving home each Sunday? Anyway.....

Former Minister for Education Mary Hanafin once remarked about the student movement that it and it's membership had so little to worry about that it would quabble over the great injustice and inequality that was parking spaces!

I often wonder if the return of fees, in the common understanding of the term, would better the student movement and once again bring into sharp focus the real influence students once had for social change.

Is there anything DCU students and by default DCUSU can collectively stand up for that means something more than just atypical selfish, desires of a privledged youth?

Fees don't even galvinise students. The student movement is in decay. They only exist not because their membership want them but because they are required by legislation.....and even that interpretation is precarious to say the least.

Rag week is simply the wake to the nearing of the end of a term of a pointless year........I really hope I'm proven wrong

loctite

Freedom of choice.. you don't have to purchase anything on campus....
I don't think that it is the quarrel of the SU if spar decide to increase the price of breakfast roll by 1 euro let the free market decide...

Fiftysix

Fantaman wrote: »

.

The student union has failed in this regard so i pose the question.... what can be done??

Supply and demand. Don't shop there.. prices will drop. Easy as tbh

giveliberty

Just wondering, and totally open to correction - do the SU not own the shop and lease it out to Spare?

That would be common practice in other colleges that the SU would have some tuck shop and stationary shop. If the SU do own it surely they had stipulated in the lease that prices had to be controlled? Or at the very least there would be significant regular offers - at least weekly - on products that students would regularly buy?

carlow_kid

giveliberty wrote: »

Just wondering, and totally open to correction - do the SU not own the shop and lease it out to Spare?

No !!

giveliberty

carlow_kid wrote: »

No !!

I called it Spare lol. Ah it's the little things that make me chuckle.

Well does the Union have any commercial services other than Ticket Master and events? They get a cut from the bar profit I would imagine? Bar their budget allocation - do they have any other forms of income?

Does the Union publish it's accounts - or does it just outline a budget at Class Council and that's the last people hear of it?

giveliberty

giveliberty wrote: »

Does the Union publish it's accounts - or does it just outline a budget at Class Council and that's the last people hear of it?

This is something that I started looking into around the time of the SU elections but then got busy with exams and lost interest...

The SU seems to have a good few holes in their communication with us - the budget and accounts is one...And tbh, that annoys me

giveliberty

Deleted User wrote: »

This is something that I started looking into around the time of the SU elections but then got busy with exams and lost interest...

The SU seems to have a good few holes in their communication with us - the budget and accounts is one...And tbh, that annoys me

Hmm. I get the feeling if I suggested that the SU isn't exactly the most of independent of organsiations I wouldn't be too far of the mark would I?

I assume any student can attend Class Council - I've got my hands on the Constitution so must give it a more detailed examination. Answers could simply be in that.

giveliberty

I'm only a third of the way through it and I have already spotted potential errors in terms of badly worded articles which directly affect its members.

giveliberty

Class Council are required to inspect the proposed budget. They can accept or reject it, but not modify it.

Is the manager of the Office of Student Life employed by DCU or DCUSU?

The SU Pres was on here regularly when he was looking for votes...would be nice if he dropped in and cleared up some of this...otherwise i will start wishing i voted for the other guy...

Tony.Time

Fantaman wrote: »

Once more this year DCU has been one of very few colleges in Ireland to finish their year with a profit. This comes at the student expense of an overpriced Canteen and an on-campus shop that assaults students wallets. Not to mention students living on campus who can easily be fined for every new offence they can choose to create.

The student union has failed in this regard so i pose the question.... what can be done??

What exactly is the motivational imperative behind this thread?

lil_cain

giveliberty wrote: »

Class Council are required to inspect the proposed budget. They can accept or reject it, but not modify it.

Is the manager of the Office of Student Life employed by DCU or DCUSU?

The Manager of the Office of Student Life is employed by the Office of Student life. On a day to day basis, she reports to the President of the S.U., however, in theory she reports to the Office of student life, which consists, iirc, of two SU exec members, two SPC members, two SCC members, one University member, a Union Council Rep, and two directly elected members. (I could be wrong. The Union, the SPC, the University and maybe an SCC rep were the only people likely to turn up while I sat on it). It's governed by its own constitution, which can be changed by two consecutive votes of Union Council.

As for the Union doing something about the prices, it tried that very publicly three years ago (Under Charlene Connelly). The students for the most part didn't back the Union, and nothing changed. All that was achieved was the burning up of an awful lot of good will with the university.

As for the Canteen, it's owned and run directly by the University. There's no contract given out, so the SU doesn't have a vote in how it is given out. It does have a seat on the board of directors of Campus Properties Ltd. who own Trispace, the company that runs the canteen. The SU also don't own the shop, nor the bars. These were Union owned once upon a time, but after they went into mountains of debt, the University took them on (This happened long before my time in University, so I'm afraid I can't give you much more in the way of details).

As for the breakdown in communication, every SU I've known in my time in DCU has worked hard to try and get people involved. In practise, getting quorum for Union Council can be difficult, and I've rarely heard the few that turn up question the exec. Getting people to listen to the accounts is more difficult than the questions on them. This is something that it'd be nice to see change, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

In terms of badly drafted articles in the constitution affecting students directly, can I ask which you refer to? The current constitution was done over two years ago, and is certainly a vast improvement on its predecessor. That said, it'll never be perfect, and I'm sure there will always be things that could be changed for the better.

And, ru, if you want to get in contact with any of the SU, drop them an email. I've found Alan, and John both reply fairly rapidly, and are always open to new ideas/people commenting on what they're doing. The SU are never going to read every internet forum all the time. That said, I'd be suprised if Alan didn't pop his head in once he hears of a thread like this. Certainly, when he was SPC chair, he would have about society stuff.

giveliberty

Thank you. That was most informative. I will reserve my analysis of the constitution for another date.

The make up of the Office of Student Life explains a lot too when it comes to the motivations behind certain decisions.

Who, may I ask is the current University rep? Does the Office of Student Life have to submit reports to anyone?

The Office of Student Life must be answerable to someone. The students or the college - the manager position is just slightly bizzare - what exactly is the remit of the Office of Student Life? Is the Manager an official College position or one that has its genesis in the Union Constitution....or if I read your message correctly the Office of Student Life has its own Constitution?

Your help is very much appreciated.

lil_cain

giveliberty wrote: »

Thank you. That was most informative. I will reserve my analysis of the constitution for another date.

The make up of the Office of Student Life explains a lot too when it comes to the motivations behind certain decisions..

I doubt it. Bar the capitation split between the SPC, SCC and the Union, it doesn't decide an awful lot.

Who, may I ask is the current University rep? Does the Office of Student Life have to submit reports to anyone?

Claire Bohan. And no. The Office of Student Life is in theory answerable to Union Council, as they're the body that (from a constitutional PoV) created it, and the body that can change its constitution. In practise, the OSL is evenly split between just about every major interest group on college. If its members were all bothered their arses turning up, it could easily report to them.

The Office of Student Life must be answerable to someone. The students or the college - the manager position is just slightly bizzare - what exactly is the remit of the Office of Student Life? Is the Manager an official College position or one that has its genesis in the Union Constitution....or if I read your message correctly the Office of Student Life has its own Constitution?

The Office of Student Life has its own constitution. The manager of the Office of Student Life, while theoretically a OSL position, is de facto a Union one, as that's who she reports to, day to day.

Your help is very much appreciated.

Fantaman

Tony.Time wrote: »

What exactly is the motivational imperative behind this thread?

Not entirely sure what you mean but i was unhappy with the current situation in DCU so i set this up to see how other people felt.

giveliberty

So where can one access this Office of Student Life Constitution?

lil_cain

giveliberty wrote: »

So where can one access this Office of Student Life Constitution?

No idea offhand, I'm afraid. Drop Una Redmond a mail is probably the fastest way. I kind of assume it's on the internet somewhere, but I haven't a bulls where.