Liver transplants for alcoholics

Sulmac

Family seek speedy liver transplant
Thursday, 20 August 2009 13:54

The family of a 19-year-old Co Down man who suffered liver failure after binge drinking have been told he will not qualify for a liver transplant until he is six months alcohol-free.

Gareth Anderson is critically ill at the Ulster Hospital.

Liver specialists say most patients who develop liver failure have been drinking heavily for more than a decade.

But according to the patient's father, Brian Anderson, Gareth had what he called a few heavy weekends but did not seem to be partying more than other teenagers.

The 19-year-old is now critically ill at the Ulster Hospital because his liver failed following a binge drinking weekend with friends.

The rule is the UK is that potential recipients need to be six months alcohol-free to qualify for a liver transplant.

Mr Anderson says his son may not survive that long.

DUP Assembly member Jim Shannon has asked for the six-month rule to be waived.

So far there is no indication that an exception will be made.

Story from RTÉ News:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0820/andersong.html

Do you think he should be allowed the transplant?

Personally, I don't. It's fully self inflicted and might be taking away from someone who hasn't wasted their liver on alcoholism.

The parents also seem to be denial of the problem ("a few heavy weekends"). Where were they when he was away destroying himself?

carly_86

y is this in the leaving cert forum

Sulmac

Crap, thought it was After Hours.

Could a mod move it please?

TanG411

Rules are rules. Let him wait 6 months.

I don't see why people can't just go out and have 1 or 2 drinks. Instead you have fools who go out to get absolutely locked and ruin not only the night out for other people, but also ruin their own bodies.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

Cookie_Monster

This has come up before a few weeks ago, no? Unless that was another alcoholic Down man.

And no way should he get a liver. If he can do the 6 months than maybe but if he has even one drink after that they should cut it back out of himn and give it to someone who didn't poison themselves

DUP Assembly member Jim Shannon has asked for the six-month rule to be waived.

Why I wonder?

Long Onion

Tough one really, I can see why one would be anti-donor on this but he is going to die.

Hmmmmm - more info needed, did he wear a tracksuit for purposes other than genuine sporting ones?

Has he ever sported a soverign ring?

Has his Ma got a muffin top?

Any tattoos (for any family members?)

Did he have a job?

All of these are important considerations methinks. It would be lousy if he was a genuinely decent sort who just had a bad rection to a bender but if he was a creamer, then no liver for you boss.

On moral gounds, should we refuse to serve fast food to morbidly obese persons, or Rizla's to those with idealistic views and no job?

Confused by life really

Diabhal Beag

He was selfish enough to get into it and sadly as is the way of life he should by all means have to suffer for his problems. There are more deserving people who won't get as much publicity as this or even a mention in a local newspaper. Why should this case be different?

Ghost Train

well if there is a liver sitting in the fridge waiting to be used, he shouldn't have to wait 6 months because of a rule

if the circumstances are different to the usual then wouldn't have a problem with an exception being made, if there are people who have been waiting that are more sick then they should be treated first

murfie

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Why should this case be different?

I think its being highlighted as this kid has done nothing different than the majority of kids his age, we all at 19-20 went on weekends sessions. He must have had underlying issues that made him more prone to liver failure and had no idea.

I would examine the risk of him dying and if its determined he wont live and others on the list can he should be bumped to the top.

bleg

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

He was selfish enough to get into it and sadly as is the way of life he should by all means have to suffer for his problems. There are more deserving people who won't get as much publicity as this or even a mention in a local newspaper. Why should this case be different?

Because those cases don't get posted up on forums or generate debate.

wes

Ghost Train wrote: »

well if there is a liver sitting in the fridge waiting to be used, he shouldn't have to wait 6 months because of a rule

The chances are that, there are plenty of other people waiting on for a liver as well, so the the situation of a liver just waiting to be used is unlikely.

Zigmund

19 and drinking heavily for over a decade?

What?

ScumLord

This isn't the same storey we had a while ago, this guy sounds pretty normal it's strange he has liver failure so young.

Give the poor lad a liver I say and make sure this ones not some Chinese import that can't handle the odd binge.

Cookie_Monster

Zigmund wrote: »

19 and drinking heavily for over a decade?

What?

Read it again

Lollipops23

not all alcoholics are lying pathetic messes and he's so so young.

saying that,i don't fully believe that he'll stay on the wagon.

Pygmalion

If there's enough livers to go around after the non-alcoholics get theirs then sure.

But realistically I'm sure finding a liver is quite hard work, they need all they can get for people who didn't already ruin the one they were given.

K4t

Yes, he's just a young lad.

Everybody deserves a second chance imo.

Capt'n Midnight

Pygmalion wrote: »

If there's enough livers to go around after the non-alcoholics get theirs then sure.

That's the whole point there are nowhere near enough to go around.

If there were enough livers to go around then you could judge each case on it's own merits. But when people are dying while waiting for livers you can't really justify queue jumping by someone who hasn't yet shown they deserve.

Who would have gotten the liver George Best got ?

Hagar

Why not get a load of rich cronies to throw in a few bob each, send him to the Mayo Clinic, then pay him to do a job he's to sick to do so that he'll be financially ok, and if there's any cash left over I'll put it in my personal bank account. Sound familiar?

Cookie_Monster

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Who would have gotten the liver George Best got ?

Someone an awful lot more deserving.

That whole situation was disgraceful, using his fame to get a liver when everyone involved knew there was no way he'd stay off the booze.

veXual

Would be interesting to know how much alcohol he actually consumed on said "heavy weekends"

Although some how I don't think volumes are ever going to be quoted.

My name is URL

So if someones liver fails without the aid of alcohol what is causing it? Something caused it, livers don't fail for nothing

It could be said that an alcoholic could recover more easilly than someone with whatever health defect they have that's causing their liver to fail.

I think the 6 month rule is rubbish unless the person is older and has shown that they won't stop drinking

he has his whole life to tackle his drinking problem, unlike a middle aged man thats probably already lost it all

ScumLord

Lollipops23 wrote: »

not all alcoholics are lying pathetic messes and he's so so young.

saying that,i don't fully believe that he'll stay on the wagon.

Why, it doesn't say he's an alcoholic or that he's been drinking from a young age, it says he drinks as much as any other lad his age. There must have been something else involved.

dr.bollocko

I'm voting yes to safeguard my future.

stovelid

Sulmac wrote: »

DUP Assembly member Jim Shannon has asked for the six-month rule to be waived.

Let him skip the wait, but perhaps give him a Taig/Hun liver (delete where applicable) just to teach him a lesson?

Adamcp898

Livers for alcoholics miniature bottles of whiskey for others

Jammyc

Mr. Anderson says his son may not live that long

Is that just his thoughts or has a doctor confirmed this? If its just his speculation then its a pretty lame argument.

Euro_Kraut

Blanket rules like this are so stupid. The medical profession are smart enough to work out who is most likely to get the most out of the Liver. That’s how its done here. Your ranking is based on your life expectancy, lifestyle, age, etc.

The 6 months rules may be appropriate for a 45 year with a history of alcoholism but is inappropriate for a 19 year old who may simply have gone the off the rails somewhat recently.

Wompa1

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Blanket rules like this are so stupid. The medical profession are smart enough to work out who is most likely to get the most out of the Liver. That’s how its done here. Your ranking is based on your life expectancy, lifestyle, age, etc.

The 6 months rules may be appropriate for a 45 year with a history of alcoholism but is inappropriate for a 19 year old who may simply have gone the off the rails somewhat recently.

How much do we know about this though?...maybe he was refused on the grounds that the panel didn't believe as his dad said that it was just the occasional weekend of drinking. Maybe they looked at his liver, interviewed him and thought his story was inconsistent.

For all we know the lad could have started drinking when he was 12...in which case I'd say give the liver to somebody else. Even at 12 you'd know enough to know that drinking that young is wrong and could cause damage.

AckwelFoley

Give it to him. He deserves a chance.

However theres a caveat. I would also administer some drug that if he ever drinks again his liver would burst a hole in his back and hop in the first taxi back to the hospital

ChocolateSauce

Ordinarily I wouldn't support it, but he is only 19. I think youthful stupidity should be excused in this case.

jumpguy

I doubt this is just because of a few boozy weekends, the fellow may have been drinking since he was 15, maybe even 14. Livers are still developing then and alcohol may be more harmful. All he may have done is tipped it over the edge.
Provided this liver failure is directly related to alcohol consumption, then I see no reason he should be prioritised. However, me sitting on my nice comfy chair in my warm home with my healthy (I hope) liver it's easy to say.

Wompa1

jumpguy wrote: »

I doubt this is just because of a few boozy weekends, the fellow may have been drinking since he was 15, maybe even 14. Livers are still developing then and alcohol may be more harmful. All he may have done is tipped it over the edge.
Provided this liver failure is directly related to alcohol consumption, then I see no reason he should be prioritised. However, me sitting on my nice comfy chair in my warm home with my healthy (I hope) liver it's easy to say.

Here, Here! Let us all sit in our nice cosy home with our functioning livers and let the lad wait! "I like chicken, I like liver..miaow mix, miaow mix please deliver"

Milky Moo

No he shouldn't get a liver,in all fairness if he does get bumped to the top of the list someone who has been waiting for one that has a non inflicted ailment will be put back and may possibly died.

Of course it is a terrible situation and it is easy to say these things when you are not involved.However the transplant system is full of hard decisions like this it isn't unique it is just been brought to our attention right now.

c0rk3r

Its stories like these that put people of donating their organs when they pass away. I intend to donate all my organs, liver, heart, lungs, spleen, stomach, intestines, my muscles. Anything that can be harvested they can have. leave my bones though. I dont see why everybody doesnt donate their organs. They should be removed without telling anyone anyway. You dont need them

But if i knew someone like the guy in the story was getting my organs i wouldnt donate. You reap what you sow. I dont buy the "hes young and deserves a second chance" line. You take personal responsibility for your actions whether positive or negative. His destructive habit should ultimately destory him. Tough ****. Its not as though he didnt know what was going to happen. When he dies he should donate his other organs, at least he'd be doing something positive.

Donate your organs, theres no reason you shouldnt except the above story.

Random

My name is URL wrote: »

So if someones liver fails without the aid of alcohol what is causing it? Something caused it, livers don't fail for nothing

It could be said that an alcoholic could recover more easilly than someone with whatever health defect they have that's causing their liver to fail.

I think the 6 month rule is rubbish unless the person is older and has shown that they won't stop drinking

he has his whole life to tackle his drinking problem, unlike a middle aged man thats probably already lost it all

I'm leaning toward this

dr.bollocko wrote: »

I'm voting yes to safeguard my future.

But I'm thinking this

snyper wrote: »

Give it to him. He deserves a chance.

feeling this

However theres a caveat. I would also administer some drug that if he ever drinks again his liver would burst a hole in his back and hop in the first taxi back to the hospital[

wishing this was possible

Milky Moo wrote: »

No he shouldn't get a liver,in all fairness if he does get bumped to the top of the list someone who has been waiting for one that has a non inflicted ailment will be put back and may possibly died.

Of course it is a terrible situation and it is easy to say these things when you are not involved.However the transplant system is full of hard decisions like this it isn't unique it is just been brought to our attention right now.

There must be a better way to work the list. Organ donations should be mandatory.

genericguy

what do you get when you guzzle down beer, only stopping because death is near?
what are you at getting pissed as a teen, drinking all day till your body turns green?

oompa loompa doopety doo...

AckwelFoley

Random wrote: »

I'm leaning toward this



But I'm thinking this



feeling this


.

you are doing alot of leaning, thinking and feeling.

Last time i did i was in a bar, i was nearly arrested

Overheal

Organ Waiting Lists are nothing rosy. There are so many candidates, and so few donors. Sadly, choices have to be made and criteria has to be set. There is a board of review obviously. If they think this boy deserves the liver, fine, but somehow I think they will look poorly on alcohol related liver failure.

That rule I also assume, applies to anyone on the list who has any sort of drink. Like the odd port on your friday night? You will be behind the line to someone who doesnt.

Amalgam

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Blanket rules like this are so stupid.

I disagree. It will discourage the public from treating their long term health like a quick cook meal from a Tesco shelf..

People in this thread have fixated on the liver, as an item, when the 'problem' from the medical staff point of view is the work\man hours that need to be invested in every liver transplant. Months of preparation leading up to the event.. and quite possibly years afterwards, not to mention it being an issue for the patient, for the rest of their life.. preventing immune system responses etc.

..and yes, it is about worth, your worth to be saved from the condition. No one will admit it, but I'm sure someone at the hospital has put a statistical 'value' to the man's life.. and that it is quite low on the scale.

omahaid

Aren't we able to grow these organs in a lab yet? I mean, wtf?!?! Where is our money going? Paying for research to send people to mars when I can't get a replacement lung or whatever . Our priorites are way out of wack (although if we were paying for research instead of NAMA I probably wouldnt be as pissed off)

My name is URL

It's hard to keep everyone happy at once

the jesus freaks don't want artificial organs

the capatalisits only want those who can make money to live

I say put them in a talent show and let the public decide who gets the liver

Sulmac

My name is URL wrote: »

I say put them in a talent show and let the public decide who gets the liver

They already did that in the Netherlands, but with kidneys. :pac:

(It was actually a hoax.)

WesternNight

I really don't think he should get to jump the queue simply because he's 19. He made very bad decisions, and shouldn't necessarily be rewarded because of his age. The "ah sure he's only young" attitude is what's letting people get away with far more than they should.

It's a sad situation for him and his family to be in. But I think the 6 month rule is still a fair one, even though he's young.

gurramok

I voted a reluctant yes as after all we were all immature at 19 and didn't realise what we were doing.
Deserves a 2nd chance, still a teenager ffs.

anniehoo

I voted to give the lad a second chance. The liver is probably the most robust organ in the body so he must have done some serious boozing for it to get to the stage it has. Id be very surprised at his age there isnt some underlying issue apart from alcohol that has resulted in complete liver failure. A 19 yr old lad is not thinking about his health (were you at his age) and if he's done that much damage he deserves another chance.

Your organs are precious, but if that was the case no sunbather,smoker,overweight,drug taker,extreme sport risk taker(and they could all be just one persons summer holiday) should ever deserve a second chance.

But! And its a big but as theres always exceptions. The liver has to..and most likely will go to the "best candidate". Organ donation selection is not done lightly by the medical profession so if he does get it, it will be carefully chosen. If he gets it, and it is down to drinking here's hoping he's learned the biggest lesson of his "young" life.

Carsinian Thau

I voted no.

A large part of my reasoning is thinking of all the people who are also waiting for livers but actually did nothing to damage theirs. Those who were just very unlucky.

My name is URL

Carsinian Thau wrote: »

I voted no.

A large part of my reasoning is thinking of all the people who are also waiting for livers but actually did nothing to damage theirs. Those who were just very unlucky.

Google - dsm-iv 305.00

Alcohol abuse is a listed mental disorder, hardly lucky =p

Verchiel

Lollipops23 wrote: »

not all alcoholics are lying pathetic messes and he's so so young.,snip>.

Would you like to expand on that?

He is young

Ricky91t

He shouldn't even get a transplant,He's obviously heard of what happens to people who "binge drink" and yet he continued to,I could understand if he was marooned on a desert island with no news,Therefore he wouldn't of heard about it.

But come on,In this day and age you can barely do anything with out hearing or seeing news and I'm sure the majority of us know what happened to George Best,If they're too stupid to listen to the news and the suffering people go through then why waste a good liver on him that could actually go to someone who needs it.