Fianna Fail's election promises 2007 ?

Red Sleeping Beauty

Hi, is there anyway to view anywhere Fianna Fail's manifesto or mandate or general policies or political promises from 2007 on which the party was elected ? I know people vote on candidates and the various issues the voters discuss with the candidates but I'm just looking for the broad principles of Fianna Fail from before the 2007 general election.

starbelgrade

FF's manifesto is & has always been simple - get in with the village idiots, get elected, make money, then smile like everything's going smoothly.

starbelgrade

They are & have always been living proof that democracy is a complete failure.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Ah yeah I know all that stuff but please, I'm looking for a serious answer here only.

The only thing I can find on their website is this :
http://www.fiannafail.ie/content/pages/issues

nesf

Guys, please don't derail every thread with FF bashing. Stay on topic or don't bother posting we all already know that you hate them!

gurramok

All i can remember is that they promised the moon and the stars based on growth of 3-4% per annum.

DublinWriter

If I remember correctly, they promised to eliminate all hospital waiting lists by 2007 in 2003.

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote: »

If I remember correctly, they promised to eliminate all hospital waiting lists by 2007 in 2003.

Well, staying on topic, guess that wasn't in the 2007 manifesto then.

I mean, Michael Collins promised the Treaty would be the stepping stone to freedom for the 32 counties. When we look back, things just don't always pan out. The OP is just looking for a copy of the 2007 manifesto.

I have looked for previous manifestos for parties before, and had difficulty getting them online OP. I think across the board all parties get rid of them the minute the results come in, and only keep the other sides! Your best bet is to probably ask FG HQ...

Riskymove

To be fair, individual pary manifestos mean little when we have coalition governments, what is important is the Programme for Government, agreed this time by the Greens, FF and PDs

http://www.greenparty.ie/government/agreed_programme_for_government

Riskymove

Deleted User wrote: »

probably ask FG HQ...

freudian slip?

they would know more about Michael Collins I suppose....:pac:

nesf

gurramok wrote: »

All i can remember is that they promised the moon and the stars based on growth of 3-4% per annum.

Which seemed to be something that every major party did.

Riskymove

nesf wrote: »

Which seemed to be something that every major party did.

with Labour even promising to reduce tax

nesf

Riskymove wrote: »

with Labour even promising to reduce tax

Indeed.

starbelgrade

nesf wrote: »

Guys, please don't derail every thread with FF bashing. Stay on topic or don't bother posting we all already know that you hate them!

I never mentioned FF. To me, democracy is a failure of the masses, becuase the masses are a failure onto themselves.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Has anyone any link to any website that has any information on what Fianna Fail promised to deliver upon election in 2007 ?

Or has anyone even any information in hardcopy ?
I'd love to say I've contacted them looking for this information but I'm somewhat cynical. I have however emailed their website with a particular unique query.

Red Sleeping Beauty

I found this : http://www.labour.ie/manifesto/
At least it's available and out in the open and easily accesible .

Very easy for the Opposition to be open and frank about their promises.

Here's what we would have done if we were elected. By now you'd all be in chocolate houses riding hoverboards to work...

Did they upload the Labour manifestos for 1982 or 1992 on their site? Did the former have 'we promise record unemployment'? Did the latter have 'you know the peace process, we'll get them back bombing Canary Wharf'?

Red Sleeping Beauty

Well if they had've been elected they they'd be held accountable to their promises. Well , that's if anyone takes these things seriously but you would assume in representative democracy that a politician's and political party's policy are of great importance. Otherwise you're just electing a name next to a picture.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

Very easy for the Opposition to be open and frank about their promises.

Here's what we would have done if we were elected. By now you'd all be in chocolate houses riding hoverboards to work...

Did they upload the Labour manifestos for 1982 or 1992 on their site? Did the former have 'we promise record unemployment'? Did the latter have 'you know the peace process, we'll get them back bombing Canary Wharf'?

What other people do or don't promise is THEIR business.....the type of "whataboutery" you're engaging in is normally associated with different people.

Who's to say WHAT they would have managed ? Would they have ensured that the Financial Regulator actually did their job ? Would that have meant that the stroke-pulling and Galway Tent brigade didn't rip us all off, and that the "global" stuff wouldn't have hit us anywhere near as hard ?

Would they have put some money away for the rainy day instead of buying votes with ridiculous promises and schemes ?

Quit pointing fingers at others; the FACT is that some people fell for the election promises, and if FF were elected on that basis they should have implemented them, instead of getting sidetracked by sideshows re Bertie's finances, etc.

And here's one : John O'Donoghue's promises of ZERO TOLERANCE......haven't seen ANY indication of that even being ATTEMPTED, and it wouldn't cost much and would improve peoples' lives no end.

Of course, he probably realised that ZERO TOLERANCE would include ZERO TOLERANCE of pathetic expense claims, so he binned that as soon as his arse was on the seat. :mad:

Salvelinus

What was the lower rate of tax to be lowered to?

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Quit pointing fingers at others; the FACT is that some people fell for the election promises, and if FF were elected on that basis they should have implemented them, instead of getting sidetracked by sideshows re Bertie's finances, etc.

I'm not sure that's a fact at all. It is your opinion.

Most voters I know didn't bother reading one manifesto, let alone comparing promises and making voting decisions based on them.

Round these parts, think people just looked at the money in their wallets and thought life was good, why change things.

meditraitor

Taken from a post at Politics.ie
http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/35781-fianna-fail-election-manifesto-2007-how-many-broken-promises-will-there.html

As part of Our Next Steps Forward we will:
-Lower taxes
-Put 4,000 extra teachers in place
-Hire 2,000 extra Gardaí
-Open Local Injury Clinics around the country
-Increase the State Pension to 3300 per week
-Invest for the future by rolling out the National Development Plan.

Today Ireland’s strong economy and full employment give us grounds for confidence. But in a world of higher interest rates, rising energy costs and intense competition from emerging economies we cannot be complacent. We must ensure that Ireland is one of the most attractive places in the world to live, to learn, to work and to invest.


-Press for a single all-island corporation tax of 12.5%.

-Increase ODA to 0.7% of GNP by 2012.

-Spend at least €100 million per annum combating HIV/AIDS and other communicable
diseases in the developing world.

-Establish an annual 325 million Stability Fund, overseen by the Conflict Resolution Unit,
to fund specific efforts on the area of conflict resolution and post conflict issues in the
developing world.

-Increase funding for emigrant welfare to 334 million per annum.

-Support moves toward a single European Mortgage Market.

-Should the Constitutional Treaty or another acceptable text be agreed, we will campaign
vigorously as a party for its ratification by the people.

-Provide new tax and other incentives aimed at making cultural and educational
philanthropy more attractive. In recognition that higher economic growth can benefit
the arts, we will encourage the full participation of the private and corporate sector in
supporting the development of our arts infrastructure, and arts programmes and services.

-Act on the findings of all Tribunals which have yet to report.

-We will deliver the National Development Plan in full, on time and within budget
to raise our productivity, to enhance our competitiveness and to secure our future
prosperity.

-Keep the budget in broad balance and fully within our commitments under
the Stability & Growth Pact.

-Set aside a minimum of 1% of GNP per annum to provide for the future pensions
of today’s workers.

-Implement a series of significant and sustainable increases in key public services
such as pensions, health and schools.

-Keep the overall tax burden low and implement further changes to enhance the
rewards of work while increasing the fairness of the tax system.

-Fianna Fáil in government has committed to investing 5.4% of GNP in public infrastructure through the NDP.

-We will invest over 38.2 billion in Science, Technology and Innovation.

-We guarantee that the 12.5% rate of corporation tax will not be changed.

- Under Fianna Fáil, Ireland’s dynamic and flexible economy will continue to be one of the most attractive locations in the world to invest, to employ and to do business in.

-Fianna Fáil will abolish the PRSI ceiling for full rate payers and reduce the rate
at which this tax is levied from 4% to 2% over the lifetime of the next administration. We
will also reduce the rate of PRSI paid by the self employed to 2% from 3%.

-Specifically, we are committed to reducing the standard rate of income tax to 18% and the higher rate of income tax to 40%.

-Implement major changes in mortgage interest relief for first-time buyers and those who bought a house in the past seven years.

-Support upskilling of low-skilled workers in the manufacturing sector by investing
more than 32.8 billion over the next six years in upskilling.

-Increase the number of Labour Inspectors to 90.

-Double investment in R&D.

-Continue to move ahead with decentralisation.

-Joining the Green and Red Luas lines.

-Opening Metro North from St Stephen’s Green to Swords via Dublin Airport.

-Opening Metro-West connecting Tallaght and Ballymun through Clondalkin, Liffey Valley
and Blanchardstown.

-Open Terminal 2 at Dublin Airport in 2009

-Strengthen the role of the regional airports through continuing capital support.

-Spend 34.3 billion on non-national roads under the National Development Plan and in
particular accelerate investment in the restoration programme to improve sub-standard
roads.

-Maximise energy efficiency and energy savings across the economy with a
target of 20% energy savings by 2020 and 33% for public sector.

-The Unit mandate will be to develop the sector and work to a target of at least 500 MW of wave and tidal energy by 2020 with an interim target of 75 MW in 2012.

-Complete the roll-out of broadband throughout the country with the National Broadband
Scheme.

-Improve the energy efficiency of new Irish homes by up to 40%.

-Implement all aspects of Transport 21 to so that the use of public transport
becomes a real option for more and more people.

-Over the next 5 years Fianna Fáil will work to ensure that Ireland’s waters are the most pristine in Europe.

-Invest €335 million under the National Development Plan in marketing Irish Tourism.

-the development of a new 25,000 seater stadium to accommodate athletics and field sports.

-As income taxes are reduced, we will keep the rate of mortgage interest relief at 20% for
all home owners.

-Further increase Garda numbers to 15,000 by 2010 and 16,000 by 2012.

-In government Fianna Fáil will conduct a root-and-branch reform of court procedures which will consolidate and modernise the current court procedures, which date back to the Victorian era.

-Provide broadband on all islands.

-Increase the numbers of beds, consultants, nurses and other professionals in our
hospitals and, through the reform of key work practices and continuing substantial
investment, deliver faster and better care for patients.

-Increase the number of dedicated public-only hospital beds by 1,500.

-We will double the number of consultants, appointing an extra 2,000 and bringing the
total number to 4,000.

-Increase the number of primary teachers by at least 4,000.

-Invest €4.5 billion in providing new schools and improving existing ones, increase the
Minor Works grant and abolish the local contribution to building projects.

-Further increase the number of language support teachers from 1,450 to 1,800.

-Further increase third level participation rates, with a special focus on those from
disadvantaged areas.

meditraitor

Jasus thats some laugh :mad:

Salvelinus

The comedy writes itself.

Red Sleeping Beauty

"-Press for a single all-island corporation tax of 12.5%" this one totally slipped me by. I never knew that was an issue.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not sure that's a fact at all. It is your opinion.

That could well be true, considering that I still haven't figured out why ANYONE voted FF.

Deleted User wrote: »

Most voters I know didn't bother reading one manifesto, let alone comparing promises and making voting decisions based on them.

And therein lies the first part of the problem; whatever about people ignoring policies and promises because they're well aware that politics involves promising everything and delivering nothing (so they're not worth the paper they're written on) there should still be enough people around who both make an informed decision and hold the candidates responsible if they don't deliver.

Deleted User wrote: »

Round these parts, think people just looked at the money in their wallets and thought life was good, why change things.

And there's the second part of it; I can have plenty money in my wallet at any moment in time and spend it, but not have anything for future oil bills, emergency repairs, a necessary change of car, etc.

Just like we "trusted" banks to act in the general interest, those people trusted FF to do what they were paid to do.....and they didn't. They saved NOTHING for a rainy day, let people away without doing their jobs, paid fortunes to consultants for reports in order to look like they were doing something, and basically bled the country dry.

Of course, considering the FF sheep's reaction when people looked at the money in Bertie's wallet, I shouldn't be surprised.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That could well be true, considering that I still haven't figured out why ANYONE voted FF.

I thought I gave one.

Peace process being another. Think many on this island would have thought their role in ending the civil war that took thousands of lives wasn't such a bad thing. It mattered to me, can't always be fumbling in the greasy till and all that.

Who are you referring to when you mention 'the FF sheep'. Know plenty of intelligent articulate people who voted FF and who are extremely upset at what is happening and who would be very interested to know about berties wallet and O;'Donogues expenses and also in seeing reprecussions.

Liam Byrne

meditraitor wrote: »

Taken from a post at Politics.ie
http://www.politics.ie/fianna-fail/35781-fianna-fail-election-manifesto-2007-how-many-broken-promises-will-there.html

Fiction-writing at it's best!

Broadband on all islands ? Most of the country doesn't even have midband/mobile "broadband" !

Specifically, we are committed to reducing the standard rate of income tax to 18% and the higher rate of income tax to 40%

....ahem!

Keep the budget in broad balance

Of course, considering all of those are listed as soundbites with ZERO indication of HOW they might even start to achieve it...then it's a joke!

In order to restore faith in politics, everyone should print out that list and have it handy when FF come knocking before the end of the year.

The ONLY way to get politics back on track - with those in power working FOR those who pay their wages (not their backhanders) - is to hold the f**kers accountable!
....but feck off on holidays when we have to debate/discuss whatever's required to achieve this

Red Sleeping Beauty

I heard from a few people who voted FF and it was because they didn't wanna rock the boat as things at the time appeared "pretty damn good" as one electrician said.

Time Magazine

Fianna Fáil, PDF, 2.4MB.

If anyone has some webspace they're willing to host that on, that would be great.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought I gave one.

Didn't see one. You mentioned something out some people believing that the fact that they had money in their pockets being somehow down to FF......but that's just those people being delusional and not seeing the bigger picture; I'd prefer not to have delusional people voting..

Mind you I'd prefer to not to have delusional - "we did nothing wrong; it's a global downturn" - people in power, too.

Or in the case of Lenihan - "we did nothing wrong - we didn't even read reports".

Delusional and incompetent - what a combination!

paddyland

It could all be basically summed up in one line: Bertie promised us a high spending administration based on a low tax economy. Loaves and fishes.

We are reaping Bertie's legacy of magic wand electioneering. Now if only we could get FF and all their supporters to disappear in a puff of smoke...

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

but that's just those people being delusional and not seeing the bigger picture; I'd prefer not to have delusional people voting..

I'd say a lot of people who didn't vote FF were also those who never voted FF, rather than those who analysed it too deeply. As a matter of idle interest, you ever vote for FF?

You so far have studiously avoided any reference to the work FF did in the peace process which I mentioned may have been one reason people thought they were a safe pair of hands.

Riskymove

I agree about bertie's legacy but in fairness we cannot judge FF's (or the other parties) manifesto details for the 2007 General election against today's climate...all those manifestos were based on a period of growth not recession

in relation to Conor's point about the peace process...while I can understand how you keep mentioning it as a FF sucess I think the majority of people here in the South are happy that peace came, few would have it as a motivator to vote for someone.."its the economy stupid" as FF are likely to find out

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

I think the majority of people here in the South are happy that peace came, few would have it as a motivator to vote for someone.."its the economy stupid" as FF are likely to find out

It is the economy, I agree. The peace process would be low on people's list of priorities in the last couple of elections. I guess the point I was making was that it contributed to many's opinion that FF were a 'safe pair of hands' compared to people like Noonan and Rabbitte and Kenny. Certain posters are suggesting that prior to recent elections it was blindingly obvious that FF policy would result in where we are now and one would want to have been delusional to vote for them. I wonder can anyone who sneers at FF point to posts from, say 4 years back where they accurately predicted the world economy and the particularly acute problems here because of FF policy? And I don't mean some geerenal 'the sky will fall in' stuff which a drunk on a bar stool could have said...

Riskymove

Deleted User wrote: »

Certain posters are suggesting that prior to recent elections it was blindingly obvious that FF policy would result in where we are now and one would want to have been delusional to vote for them. I wonder can anyone who sneers at FF point to posts from, say 4 years back where they accurately predicted the world economy and the particularly acute problems here because of FF policy?

hindsight is great alright:pac:

no one could be exactly right in predicting the future especially as, at some level, you trust the Government not to be doing something that could be so destructive

having said that, from someone within the public system, I was getting more and more concerned about Bertie's throwing around of money and also the obvious build-up of issues in the housing area..particularly the advent of 100% mortgages etc

basically FF used the gains of the boom to "buy" re-election (however I have no doubt the others would have done the same) and this happens at all elections over the decades to varying extents

whats more unforgivable is the short-term "keep everyone happy" approach of Bertie which has been a significant factor in where we are. Cowen came oo late as Taoiseach and will go down in history as being unlucky with timing.

ei.sdraob

Alan Rouge wrote: »

"-Press for a single all-island corporation tax of 12.5%" this one totally slipped me by. I never knew that was an issue.

ffs i hate that 12.5 % figure

12.5% only applies to large companies with more than 5 shareholders

small "close" companies get charged with surcharges on profits so effecttive corpo tax rate is 20-30% then :mad:

this hurts alot of small companies/startups

tho i do hear corpo tax has been waive to any new company founded since jan 1st 2009

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

whats more unforgivable is the short-term "keep everyone happy" approach of Bertie which has been a significant factor in where we are. Cowen came oo late as Taoiseach and will go down in history as being unlucky with timing.

Absolutely, he threw money at every cause and project going, every lobby group must have been on cloud 9, ask and you shall get. Of course, you had the Opposition (with the exception perhaps of one or two like Joe Higgins) saying it wasn't enough or even more could be given, yet apparently we were deluded fools not to vote for that lot.

I note what you say about Coqwen, while his timing was unluocky he could have made things a bit easier for himself if he put in a good stint as Minister for Finance. Because he made his own bed, my sympathy is reduced.

DublinWriter

Riskymove wrote: »

whats more unforgivable is the short-term "keep everyone happy" approach of Bertie which has been a significant factor in where we are. Cowen came oo late as Taoiseach and will go down in history as being unlucky with timing.

...or you could call it Bertie's "Late-Late Show" approach, i.e. there's one for everyone in the audience.

His extending of the Junior Ministerships from 9 to 21 positions, with attendant Mercs and Percs, was basically unforgivable.

Mike...

whats with this all island corp tax rate craic,
I really couldn't give a toss about the North,
we should mind ourselves first

994

Riskymove wrote: »

I agree about bertie's legacy but in fairness we cannot judge FF's (or the other parties) manifesto details for the 2007 General election against today's climate...all those manifestos were based on a period of growth not recession

Didn't Cowen pressure the Dept of Finance to come up with more optimistic forecasts, and then say that anyone who pointed out the ludicrous property bubble was "talking down the economy"... ffs "talking down" isn't even an idiom.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

You so far have studiously avoided any reference to the work FF did in the peace process which I mentioned may have been one reason people thought they were a safe pair of hands.

Interesting rewriting of history, because I was under the impression that the "safe pair of hands" fallacy was related to the economy.

I don't think the peace process has that much of an impact on people's everyday lives that they'd vote based on that and ignore the corruption and condoning.

Liam Byrne

Riskymove wrote: »

Cowen came oo late as Taoiseach and will go down in history as being unlucky with timing.

.....or the fact that he appointed - and still has faith in - an incompetent cabinet that doesn't even read reports, and yet commissions even more of them to delay making tough decisions.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Interesting rewriting of history, because I was under the impression that the "safe pair of hands" fallacy was related to the economy.

No no, I am not rewriting history at all.

You seem to have taken the bizarre approach that one can only consider the economy, or only the economy can be handled well or poorly.

Are you going to pass any comment at all about the way they handled the North, for those of us who believe there is more to the whole thing than money and how to spend it, and for those of us who felt the North was at least one issue on which we could trust FF more than the Opposition? You seem to just want to avoid it.

And where is the rule that the phrase 'safe pair of hands' is only limited to financial issues? It's a strange take on a common phrase. Maybe that's a debate for another forum.

And I'll ask again, you have been posting since 2006. Can you root up any posts from that time and show us deluded types just how accurately you predicted it all would pan out? It's another question you have carefully avoided.

And the third question you avoided is when was the last time you voted FF, camndidate and election.

oscarBravo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

ffs i hate that 12.5 % figure

12.5% only applies to large companies with more than 5 shareholders

small "close" companies get charged with surcharges on profits so effecttive corpo tax rate is 20-30% then :mad:

this hurts alot of small companies/startups

Surcharges on profits? What do you mean?

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

No no, I am not rewriting history at all.

You seem to have taken the bizarre approach that one can only consider the economy, or only the economy can be handled well or poorly.

Where did I take that approach ? Obviously they are going to be judged on the thing that had the biggest impact, which is their ****-up of the economy!

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you going to pass any comment at all about the way they handled the North,

Am I going to fall for the "Bertie single-handedly finalised the peace process" bull**** ? No. Fair play to everyone who - since 1985 - was involved.

Deleted User wrote: »

..... for those of us who believe there is more to the whole thing than money and how to spend it....

I'm right with you there, y'know......beyond what you need to survive (which unfortunately is minimum of about €30K a year in this country, way more if you have kids) money has no influence on me.

So if FF screwed everyone over that amount, or all their buddies on €300K, and ensured that everyone could survive, with proper health services, roads, schools, etc - I'd have no real objection.

Deleted User wrote: »

and for those of us who felt the North was at least one issue on which we could trust FF more than the Opposition? You seem to just want to avoid it.

No, I don't. But you're avoiding the fact that the Opposition contributed in a big way too.

Deleted User wrote: »

And where is the rule that the phrase 'safe pair of hands' is only limited to financial issues? It's a strange take on a common phrase. Maybe that's a debate for another forum.

Can I remind you of the bang-on-topic MAIN FF election promises from 2007 ?

Or will I let the RTE website do it : http://www.rte.ie/news/elections2007/celtictiger.html

Deleted User wrote: »

And I'll ask again, you have been posting since 2006. Can you root up any posts from that time and show us deluded types just how accurately you predicted it all would pan out? It's another question you have carefully avoided.

I'm not paid €200K a year + so-called "expenses" to predict stuff, and even if I had Bertie and Co would have told me to f**k off and commit suicide.

I've said it on numerous occasions (maybe not all on here - I can't say) that having the same bank offer you mortgages when they had a vested interest in making sure the developer paid them back was a disaster waiting to happen (there should have been wholesale and retail banks, with both properly regulated) and how - while we're not allowed say that Bertie "lied" :rolleyes: - he had 5 different stories (odd that he's now supposedly writing his memoirs, considering his bad memory) about his cash, thereby distracting the Government, and how he self-confessed to nepotism, giving high-profile jobs to "his friends", regardless of their competence and suitability, and how privatising everything without safeguards was a disaster waiting to happen, etc.

But like I said, I'm not PAID to plan for the future of the country; and if I was, you can be DAMN SURE the first thing I'd do is read a f**king report before signing away billions!

Deleted User wrote: »

And the third question you avoided is when was the last time you voted FF, camndidate and election.

NEVER. My conscience is clear on that.

Riskymove

DublinWriter wrote: »

...His extending of the Junior Ministerships from 9 to 21 positions, with attendant Mercs and Percs, was basically unforgivable.

Minor point for info, junior ministers dont get state cars

Riskymove

Mike... wrote: »

whats with this all island corp tax rate craic,
I really couldn't give a toss about the North,
we should mind ourselves first

if lots of companies set up in the north, people from the south could work there

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Obviously they are going to be judged on the thing that had the biggest impact, which is their ****-up of the economy!

You could at least pretend to have some passing interest in the North.

I think anyone who was around on this island when every week some soldier was sent back to the UK in a bodybag or some kid never made it home thought it was pretty important. Of course it is not the be all and end all, but on the other hand let's not pretend your take on the economy of the nation was the only issue out there.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Am I going to fall for the "Bertie single-handedly finalised the peace process" bull**** ?

As a matter of interest, since it was significant enough to make you swear, who made the suggestion that Bertie single handedly finalised the Peace Process? It would be a stupid suggestion, was it here or some pundit in the media?

As for you reference to 'peace process Bull****', John Bruton wants his quote back!

Liam Byrne wrote: »

So if FF screwed everyone over that amount, or all their buddies on €300K, and ensured that everyone could survive, with proper health services, roads, schools, etc - I'd have no real objection.

And neither would I.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No, I don't. But you're avoiding the fact that the Opposition contributed in a big way too.

There may be a good debate about how much they did for the Peace Process. I was dealing with your point that anyone who voted FF was some ignorant fool.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Can I remind you of the bang-on-topic MAIN FF election promises from 2007 ?

Or will I let the RTE website do it : http://www.rte.ie/news/elections2007/celtictiger.html

You made a point about all FF voters being deluded and fools. If you want to move back to the original topic, and away from your point that you are cleverererer than one million people on this island, fair enough. When one peeled back all the layers of smugness there was a very weak argument there somewhere.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

But like I said, I'm not PAID to plan for the future of the country; and if I was, you can be DAMN SURE the first thing I'd do is read a f**king report before signing away billions!


NEVER. My conscience is clear on that.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

But like I said, I'm not PAID to plan for the future of the country...

So you are saying you are not paid enough to know the facts and figures, or make predictions, or know what would happen (which is the accusation you levelled against FF voters)...you just voted against FF and always have.

I would suggest you have very little to pat your back about then. You were bound to be right some day. Who was it said even a stopped clock is right twice a day?

ei.sdraob

oscarBravo wrote: »

Surcharges on profits? What do you mean?

see here :mad: its a recommended read to anyone starting out in business in Ireland this year

http://www.taxireland.ie/documents/general/Understanding_Tax_for_a_Small_Business.pdf

alot of people are not aware of these corpo tax related "surcharges" when starting small companies

Be aware of the rules relating t 2.3 o “close” companies
A close company is a company that is controlled by five or fewer shareholders or is controlled by
its directors.
The vast majority of companies in the SME sector are close companies and it is important to
know that there are a number of specific tax consequences that arise on transactions involving
such companies.
These include:
»» A 20% surcharge is levied on the after tax non-trading income of a company which is not
paid out as a dividend within 18 months of its year end.
»» A 15% surcharge arises on 50% of professional services income of a company if the income
is not distributed within 18 months.
»» Interest paid on directors’ loans may be treated, not as a tax deductible expense in certain
circumstances, but as a distribution (or dividend) paid to that director. This leads to a tax
cost of 12.5% of the interest paid.
»» Other expenses incurred by a company for its directors may also be treated as distributions
instead of tax deductible expenses. The result is that expenses cannot be offset against the
trading income of the company, leading to a tax cost of 12.5% of the expenses paid.
»» Companies must pay a “deposit” to Revenue on loans made by the company to its
shareholders of 25% of the net loan amount. The close company only obtains a refund
of this deposit when the loan is repaid by the shareholder. The company loses the deposit
if the loan to the shareholder is written off. It is also important to note that there are
Company Law regulations governing loans to directors. In particular, loans which exceed
10% of a company’s net assets breach company law. Breaches of company law can result
in prosecution.
Close companies can incur high effective tax rates due to the complex rules above.

also note the

"Companies must pay a “deposit” to Revenue on loans made by the company to its
shareholders of 25% of the net loan amount. "

line


now why did rules like that not apply to anglo irish last year when they were shifting money around by the dozen millions? i on other hand cant sneeze without Revenue not knowing


and the In particular, loans which exceed 10% of a company’s net assets breach company law
I actually fell foul into this rule in first year of business without being aware of such a law


the tax structure in Ireland is aimed at helping/attracting large companies, small business be damned


more info on surcharges for small "close" companies and "professionals" here @ http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/Publications/tsg/tsg9907.htm

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DublinWriter

Riskymove wrote: »

Minor point for info, junior ministers dont get state cars

By 'Mercs and Perks' I meant that they're provided with two civilian drivers, better offices, more staff, etc.

Just read this from the Independent : Taxpayers fork out €1.3m a year to drive junior ministers around