Dept Of Education - New Students May Be Liable For Fees Next Year.

Sierra Oscar

And so the fun begins . . .

New students to be informed of possible fees

THE DEPARTMENT of Education has instructed third-level colleges to put new students on notice they may be liable for new fees from next year.

Students will be told of their potential liability for fees when they register for the first time next month.

Extrasupervery

Ah bollox

GA361

Extrasupervery wrote: »

Ah bollox

Let's not just lie down and take it though!

KeyLimePie

we registered already. SAFE.

-goes away to cry-

p1akuw47h5r3it

Ah well give us something to moan and protest about...will be a bit of crack:pac:


Seriously tho thats ****.

And I'm robbin ur thread and puttin it in the Trinity forum:)!

The_Minister

I expected fees to come in, but not for this years crop.

Extrasupervery

GA361 wrote: »

Let's not just lie down and take it though!

Hell yeah!

errlloyd

Lol its grand, they can't bring them in late.

The_Minister

errlloyd wrote: »

Lol its grand, they can't bring them in late.

I dunno, if the applications aren't finished yet...

Sierra Oscar

errlloyd wrote: »

Lol its grand, they can't bring them in late.

They will not be coming in this year. It means students going in this year may have to start paying for tuition from next year on.

errlloyd

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

They will not be coming in this year. It means students going in this year may have to start paying for tuition from next year on.

Which is something they actually can't do. If they do drop out rates will be ridiculous. Oh seriously any fee they charges in cash will be made back ten times in damages...

IrishKnight

errlloyd wrote: »

Lol its grand, they can't bring them in late.

You don't know how deep the government goes...it goes all the way to the president!

errlloyd

However, he insists the new fees or loan regime will apply to those beginning college next month.

Oh for **** sake, what a c*nt. You reckon points will drop on the second round because of that ?

IrishKnight

errlloyd wrote: »

Oh for **** sake, what a c*nt. You reckon points will drop on the second round because of that ?

No, why would they?! The CAO doesn't take into account external factors...

errlloyd

IrishKnight wrote: »

No, why would they?! The CAO doesn't take into account external factors...

Because people will drop out if they have to pay. The chances of anyone dropping out on the possibility of fees is low. But I can guarantee that points will drop for every course next year if fees are introduced.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

Im up for a protest anyway. Why should we have to pay an extra 5 grand each to this government who put us in this mess? As if its the feckin students fault. College is extremely expensive as it is!

errlloyd

Well we can't have a riot in UCD, its riot proof. Oh well, I guess we'll have to rip up trinity then... Shame that...

Anyone up for rolling that big gold sphere down Westmorlen Street and into the Liffey?

The_Minister

ya-ba-da-ba-doo wrote: »

Im up for a protest anyway. Why should we have to pay an extra 5 grand each to this government who put us in this mess? As if its the feckin students fault. College is extremely expensive as it is!

The real cost of college is over 20,000.
Even 5,000 is only a fraction of the true cost of college.

Sad Professor

Gee, could he have made this announcement any later? It's not like anyone has accepted their courses yet or anything.

Doing it this late is a sure-fire way to radicalise the entire incoming student population before they've even had a chance to discover politics. Everyone was going to be out protesting the return of fees anyway ("sure it'll a bit of craic, lads") but introducing them to students mid-stream is likely to cause riots.

Will the sniveling Greens present any opposition to this? O'Keefe is preempting the actual cabinet decision about the return of fees and the current programme for government doesn't allow for their return. So I guess this means we'll have to watch Gormley/Ryan bending over again in front of their FF masters on the news tomorrow.

Riskymove

agreed, deciding to tell people this after the CAO process and when they are starting is just wrong

they should be in possession of all the facts in order to make a decision

Sad Professor

Important notice for new 2009 CAO students – Free Fees Scheme
The Higher Education Authority (HEA) has asked UCD to bring the following notice to the attention of all 2009 CAO students.

Extract from letter to the President of UCD from the HEA, 11 August 2009:

‘The Minister for Education and Science has requested an examination of the range of available options for introducing a new form of student cost contribution in higher education. The Minister has now circulated a review of available options to members of Cabinet for information in advance of possible future government consideration of policy decisions on the issue.

For the purpose of clarity for incoming students in 2009/2010, the Department of Education and Science has advised that the Minister has signalled that it is not his intention to recommend the introduction of a new form of student contribution before 2010. Incoming students in the 2009/2010 academic year will not therefore be subject to any new form of student contribution in respect of the coming academic year (i.e. depending on their eligibility status, normal arrangements will apply in respect of registration charges, free fees provision or fee liability).

However, incoming students in the 2009/2010 academic year should now be on notice that in the event of a Government decision to introduce a new form of student contribution from a future point in time, any such arrangements are liable to apply, from that time, to students who enter higher education this year. For example, the effect of this could be that incoming 2009 students would be liable for a new form of charge in the second year of their studies (in the event of a future Government decision to introduce a new form of contribution from 2010).’

http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/fees/hea_notice.html

RebelGirrrl

Does that mean the deferred loan thing is gone?

Sad Professor

RebelGirrrl wrote: »

Does that mean the deferred loan thing is gone?

They haven't decided anything yet. But most likely it will take the form of a deferred loan or graduate tax. But the well-off might have to pay upfront. We'll have to wait and see.

RebelGirrrl

Who else agrees?

Riamfada

As a historical PRO fee advocate Im saying nothing cause im sick of it and well ... finished.

errlloyd

Oh Grimes mate, its not the fees. Its the principle of announcing them the day most of us accept our offers. Seems like a bit of a cheeky move, I have very little respect for it.

dajaffa

a) I don't think this would hold up in court if someone (ie any decent student union) got a decent lawyer who could argue that acceptance of the offer was the initiation of some sort of "learning contract", as against said happening when you paid your reg fee having being given a warning.

b) The Green Party membership have to vote on a new programme for government, and approve it by 66% of all ordinary members that show up for a meeting on September 12th or so, which I don't think will happen. FG will be the major party in the next government, + though they will want to bring in some sort of deferred fees, I don't think they'll enforce it on students starting this year.

(If I had my way everyone would just vote for Labour + we wouldn''t have to worry about it but I ain't that optimistic just yet)

Riamfada

errlloyd wrote: »

Oh Grimes mate, its not the fees. Its the principle of announcing them the day most of us accept our offers. Seems like a bit of a cheeky move, I have very little respect for it.

Oh you are right. I was shocked when i heard that there might be the possiblity of fees coming in this year. The USI are completely ineffective on the entire front and I swear Peter Manion is just repeating himself everyday like people will listen.

Students need to present themselves as actual people with a value to the government but also find something to hold over the minister that can force their way. Protests at the Dail and Peter Manion's moaning wont solve a thing.

Id be more than happy to lead the fees protests... but it might get a little illegal. You know .... the way students used to be ??

(if I had my way we would all vote labour and be unemployed with no economic plan to speak of :P)

bythewoods

Here, isn't there some kind of group in UCD called "FEE"?- Free Education for Everyone?

Where can I sign up?

I would choose the longest degree programme going, which also boasts some very high tuition charges...

Don't think it'll be too asy to afford 5 years of fees.
I can barely afford going to college as it is.

Riamfada

bythewoods wrote: »

Here, isn't there some kind of group in UCD called "FEE"?- Free Education for Everyone?

Where can I sign up?

You mean the guys that were all talk before the Sabbat elections and then dissapeared when they all failed and well its the Summer! College dosnt start back until September. They are on holidays. Whats the rush to fight fees, its not like they might be coming in or anything?

Extrasupervery

Don't expect the greens to show any sort of back bone or kahones in all of this.

Riamfada

As I said students do not vote, if fees come in it will cause no more trouble for the government than they are already in. Why not make a few quid before they go and cut down on the excess of Art History majors?

Fad

Grimes wrote: »

As I said students do not vote, if fees come in it will cause no more trouble for the government than they are already in. Why not make a few quid before they go and cut down on the excess of Art History majors?

Orts will collapse :eek:

If Science in UCD breaks 400, and the Orts block, I dunno, melts, UCD will probably overtake TCD in the Top 50........

El Siglo

A group like FEE are more at home with 1969 than they are with 2009. Instead of this radical, protest every visiting politician etc... Students should employ other tactics as well. Farmers for example are quick to mobilise over the slighest thing, but also they're an incredibly powerful lobby group. Seriously, they're one of the most powerful lobby groups in the EU. We need to look at the legal avenues; take the government to high court, supreme court, European Court of Human Rights. We're students, how many law students would it take, and how much money from SU Fees from each university, IT, VEC College of Further Education etc... would cover the costs of such legal action. It's ridiculous, we have the people, we have the money and yet we're doing nothing bar this mickey mouse protest rubbish. The USI needs to start acting like a union (so does the UCDSU for that matter), how many students will be affected by fees over the next decade? Condone fees my left one, start taking the government on directly. Protesting is useless when nobody listens.

Sad Professor

There's been very little coverage of this on the radio this morning. RTE barely saw fit to mention it in most of their news reports. Maybe there'll be something later in day when the members of the opposition get back from their afternoon golf match.

And the USI is an embarrassment. Their site is still down - on the one day people might want to actually look at it.

The_Minister

bythewoods wrote: »

Here, isn't there some kind of group in UCD called "FEE"?- Free Education for Everyone?

*Cough* socialist front *cough*
They campaigned, ran for election, got pasted, vanished.

errlloyd

So any first years got Dads who are epic Lawyers who wanna work Pro-bono to save themselves 21 k in the long run?

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

So any first years got Dads who are epic Lawyers who wanna work Pro-bono to save themselves 21 k in the long run?

In the long run, you will have to pay that €21k in income tax.

DennisZ

errlloyd wrote: »

So any first years got Dads who are epic Lawyers who wanna work Pro-bono to save themselves 21 k in the long run?

no, I am just an average IT guy. 7k/year - not easy (spending less on my beloved hobby - model planes) , but manageable.
just start saving year ahead.

and I have another son going to college in a five yrs time.

/Dad

errlloyd

The Economist wrote: »

In the long run, you will have to pay that €21k in income tax.

Alternatively you can say my parents have already paid that 21k in income tax...

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

Alternatively you can say my parents have already paid that 21k in income tax...

On average, every additional year of education will increase your yearly salary by 9%. If your parents are rich enough to pay €21k in tax, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

Third-level education is a private good. It's not like the Gardaí or public lighting where everyone gets the same reward. The benefits accrue almost exclusively to you. It's the best investment you will ever make. Again, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

RebelGirrrl

Do you think the deferred loan thing is still the most likely?

El Siglo

RebelGirrrl wrote: »

Do you think the deferred loan thing is still the most likely?

It depends, but probably will be the most likely outcome from this fiasco.

ya-ba-da-ba-doo

The_Minister wrote: »

The real cost of college is over 20,000.
Even 5,000 is only a fraction of the true cost of college.

Isn't it 5000 per year? Thats 20000 altogether for me.

RebelGirrrl

El Siglo wrote: »

It depends, but probably will be the most likely outcome from this fiasco.

What does anyone else think, I'd be really worried about that?

errlloyd

The Economist wrote: »

On average, every additional year of education will increase your yearly salary by 9%. If your parents are rich enough to pay €21k in tax, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

Third-level education is a private good. It's not like the Gardaí or public lighting where everyone gets the same reward. The benefits accrue almost exclusively to you. It's the best investment you will ever make. Again, why should the State step in to subsidise your investment?

Its actually not the fees that annoys me in this instance. Its the way in which they are implemented. Announcing it the day offers are accepted is just cheeky.

In essence I would love fees, points would be real low and I can afford them. I'd probably have got my first choice, even though my second is amazing too so I am not complaining.

However with a one handed grasp the government welcomed us to University, while with the other they wrote up the bill.

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

Its actually not the fees that annoys me in this instance. Its the way in which they are implemented. Announcing it the day offers are accepted is just cheeky.
...

However with a one handed grasp the government welcomed us to University, while with the other they wrote up the bill.

Actually they said "We're probably not going to be paying your bill from next year."

errlloyd

The Economist wrote: »

Actually they said "We're probably not going to be paying your bill from next year."

Don't play dumb, if your name is anything like your nature you know very well that its certain as rain.

Time Magazine

errlloyd wrote: »

Don't play dumb, if your name is anything like your nature you know very well that its certain as rain.

Actually I'm being accurate rather than sensationalist. They're not certain, the government may fall, for example.

DylanJM

When they say fees are likely to be implemented next year do they mean next year i.e 2010 or the next school year 2009/2010. In other words are gonna get away with one free year of college before fees come in?

Tom1991

Well if they do 8 grand a year is steep on the science fee and Iwill become a college dropout in 2010dont wanta 24k loan on me shoulders when i get out and try find a job