Are you Fattist?

Zascar

I was told that I was "Fattist" the other day by a friend, and I have to say I can't really deny it. It may not be very PC but its something I've got little sympathy for. Met a girl a few weeks ago who was a fitness instructor and specialised in weight loss. She told me all this Genetic Predisposition stuff is all rubbish, 99.9% is bad diet and not enough exercise. She said loads of her clients loose loads of weight but few keep it off. It's just a lifestyle thing.

It may be hard for some, but ultimately everyone has control over their own weight - so really you cannot pass the blame. If you really want to do it, it can be done. I on the other hand am quite short, but there is not a dam thing I can do to make myself taller (without ridiculous surgery)

Statistics show that if you child is overweight by the age of 5, it has an 80% chance of having weight problems for the rest of its life. Many countries around the world are in pandemic states with health problems due to so many people being massively overweight. Being all PC and defending obese people is not the way to fixing the problem

MrEko

Yes, without any shame either. Whenever I see an already large kid walk (or waddle) around with an ice cream in its hand I get the urge to take it off him and just tell him 'No!'.

People who say 'Its not his/her fault' or 'They cant help be who they are' are just kidding themselves. It is all down to diet imo. If you eat too much processed foods, microwave foods, fast foods, it is going to come back and show on you. It doesn't take much to go to a fruit and veg shop, go to a butchers, and get some good food to cook from scratch. It helps so, so much.

When i was in college a lot of my friends would just throw a pizza in the oven or go to a chipper. Couple that with all the booze you'd drink and its not a good combination. College is where your eating habits for life will start, its normally the first time you live away from home and have to fend for yourself. I wish people would just start right.

So yes, I am a fattist. I look down on overwight people, I think its all down to laziness and bad habits. You may call that shallow but I sure as hell know I wont be the first or last to judge people on how they look. Thing is, if you look unhealthy, you generally are unhealthy. You have the power to change that though, you just have to choose to.

Random

So you have no sympathy for them or you dislike them and discrimate against them because they are fat?

nyarlothothep

Metabolism can slow down very much so in people in their 20s or 30s. It is a case of too much food and too little exercise in many cases, but its also context based.

ChocolateSauce

Yes and no. While I have limited sympathy for people who don't exercise and overeat, there are people who have a biological predisposition to be overweight, and these people are not at fault for their weight. I've known one person who has this really bad; she walked an hour a day, went swimming regularly, and dieted until the cows came home but couldn't get below 25 stone.

Tricity Bendix

Zascar wrote: »

I was told that I was "Fattist" the other day by a friend, and I have to say I can't really deny it. It may not be very PC but its something I've got little sympathy for. Met a girl a few weeks ago who was a fitness instructor and specialised in weight loss. She told me all this Genetic Predisposition stuff is all rubbish, 99.9% is bad diet and not enough exercise. She said loads of her clients loose loads of weight but few keep it off. It's just a lifestyle thing.

Well, I would ask your fitness instructor friend what she would make of two brothers, only two years apart, who eat the same food, lead the same lifestyle with regards to alcohol consumption and such, one of whom goes to the gym twice a week, the other does no exercise whatsoever. The brother who does exercise has been struggling with weight since his early teens, yet the one who rarely gets off his ass is a thin as a rake, and always has been.

lifestyle my ass.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Obviously some of it comes down to genetics, but this is no excuse. If you're predisposed to being fat you should be making MORE of an effort to stay slim, not using it as an excuse.

oldyouth

I'd be fattist if I saw such a person engage in obviously unhealthy eating habits. Other than that I wouldn't pass judgement

enry

People are fat because they eat more food then their body needs there is no other reason. Think about fat people you know, not the chubby, not kind of fat, I mean those people whose fingers are too fat to dial a phone with out using a pen. These people have a problem not simply a physical problem but are in fact mentally unwell and their mental illness is the cause of their physical problem.

I believe that this problem is going to grow . We in this country are way to fat we need to really educate our children we need to sort this problem out before it becomes a bigger issue then it is already.

I think if we can keep ourselves fit and healthy we can look over to our left and laugh at england (or the quite fat people) and look to our right and laugh at the USA ( or the Fattiest)

Tricity Bendix

We'll all be dead and cold in the ground before Irish people as a nation can laugh at others for being fat. Our drinking culture and general ignorance when it come to things like nutrition aren't about to disappear any time soon.

WesternNight

Plenty of slim people are lazy as all hell too. Do you look down on them too? Or just the lazy people who happen to also be overweight?

I suppose you haven't given much consideration to *why* they're overweight? I mean, aside from "well they're obviously unable to control themselves when it comes to food and can't be bothered getting off their arses".

I've been overweight since I was a child. That was almost entirely down to one of my parents. Children repeat the behaviours of their parents...and I was set a very bad example. I fully accept that now I'm an adult it's *my* problem and it's down to me and only me to fix it. But those years of bad parenting took its toll...physically and emotionally.

People who are "fattist"...have you ever been overweight yourselves? Have you any idea what a person goes through when they're overweight? It's not quite as cut and dry as "it's all down to laziness and bad habits".

Wacker

Once someone's weight impinges upon me, I'll become a 'Fattist'. I can't recall that ever happening though, and I can only imaging a handful of scenarios when it could.

Feel free to give me examples of fatties ruining things for everyone; I'm very open to correction. I just can't help but feel that I've got more important concerns in my sock drawer right now. :pac:

00sully

yep i probably am a "fattist" too. I became overweight during college from booze and unhealthy eating - never noticed it creep up until I saw pics of myself. I was disgusted so promptly sorted it out.

Its up to everyone to sort it out for themselves and everyone should. Does anyone feel sympathy for a smoker with lung cancer? I certainly didn't feel sorry for George Best either and thought the fact he was given a liver transplant was a disgrace. Well I feel little sympathy for obese people with medical conditions either.

The only sympathy I do feel for these people is for their distinct lack of will power.

two brothers, only two years apart, who eat the same food, lead the same lifestyle with regards to alcohol consumption and such, one of whom goes to the gym twice a week, the other does no exercise whatsoever. The brother who does exercise has been struggling with weight since his early teens, yet the one who rarely gets off his ass is a thin as a rake, and always has been.

well maybe the fatter one should cut out alcohol? maybe go to the gym more than twice a week? maybe eat healthier? You can't justify his condition just because someone is a little lazier but doesn't exhibit the same characteristics. (albeit thin with probably a very high cholesterol rate)

Maybe I should complain that people are more intelligent than me even though I put in as much work as them into studying?? Or just maybe I have to work harder than them. I can accept that.

There maybe a few excuses that hold up like psychological reasons but the fact remains its not hard to address and fix this issue compared to other more serious ones. It is only beneficial to be healthy.

I kinda get peeved at it as well because it sort of comes across as greed or (and I don't like to use this word) gluttony.

Am I a Fattist? Um, I probably am. but then I think most people will fall into one category or another. I'm quite skinny being over 6ft, and a high metabolism. So, I've been rather skinny all my life, and nothing seems to help. I've done the gym, protein supplements, and even some horrible tasting crap that anorexic's use, and no real improvement. And after 20 years of being like this (I'm in my 30's now) I can't be bothered trying to change it.

And I figure its similar for people with fat problems. I know how hard it was for me to gain weight & muscle (which would be lost immediately after gaining it), I figure losing weight must be even harder.

But I don't have any real sympathy for them. I sure as hell didn't get any sympathy for being skinny. And I don't really want any. Being skinny or fat is a personal thing, and nothing to do with someone else. After a few years, I grew to be generally comfortable with my weight.. although beaches still make me uncomfortable, with all those other guys with six-packs. Living in Australia was interesting. :rolleyes:

fifth

No definitely not -

If it's their lifestyle choice - let them be
If it's to do with their upbringing - which I do believe can have an unmerciful effect on a childs eating habits, very hard to shake off when older - then how could I pass judgement?

My weight fluctuated when I was younger, under control now in the last few years. I'm lucky that I can make a decision to eat less and exercise more and control how I look.

Some people, it takes a lot more time and motivation to break those habits that took years to form.

DublinWriter

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

We'll all be dead and cold in the ground before Irish people as a nation can laugh at others for being fat.

Amen to that. A recent couple of weeks in continental Europe really brought home to me what a nation of reckless porkers we all are.

DublinWriter

DublinWriter wrote: »

Amen to that. A recent couple of weeks in continental Europe really brought home to me what a nation of reckless porkers we all are.

Its more noticeable here because of population density.. Higher populations spread it out in other countries.. I don't think Ireland is all that much worse than other countries in Europe for their diet and/or exercise.

cotwold

I'm a fattist, its horrible. I used to be fat and when i see fat people i just well up with anger at them. Its purely because im afraid of ever being like that again. Also i think to myself if i could beat it so can they but i only have to remind myself how hard it is to loose weight once you are obese. Every pound lost always seems like a million more pounds too lose.

People who've never been fat have no business being fattists. Unless you fly a lot and find yourself sandwitched between two obese people all the time.

cotwold

cotwold wrote: »

People who've never been fat have no business being fattists. Unless you fly a lot and find yourself sandwitched between two obese people all the time.

I have to disagree. In Ireland, and many other countries fat people act in a manner which is designed to be abusive. I don't know if its a reaction to being criticised by society, or just because they're projecting their own insecurities, but many fat people aren't the jolly cliché anymore. Unless you're living in an isolated spot, you're going to be exposed to fat people, and that gives people the right to be fatists, if they so feel that way. Just as I have the right to be against racists, sexists, anorexics, ageist's, etc

cotwold

Deleted User wrote: »

I have to disagree. In Ireland, and many other countries fat people act in a manner which is designed to be abusive. I don't know if its a reaction to being criticised by society, or just because they're projecting their own insecurities, but many fat people aren't the jolly cliché anymore.

Yeah hatred of the kind of people you describe would be rational and hardly fattist, as you're not hating them for being fat but rather mean.

Deleted User wrote: »

Unless you're living in an isolated spot, you're going to be exposed to fat people, and that gives people the right to be fatists, if they so feel that way. Just as I have the right to be against racists, sexists, anorexics, ageist's, etc

You dont have a right to be any of those things and its completely aside from the point i was making.

dj m

I was fat.Not in my opinion but apparently a size 10-12 is now considered fat.I was called fat by strangers on the street and by a few guys i knew with their heads stuck so far up their own ass.Anyway it started to get to me and coupled with other emotional distress going on i decided to diet.No longer fat.Instead a skeleton.My heart rate was so low i spent 3 weeks on a heart montior and months in hospital.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.But is it really necessary to share it with some body you dont know?or even with some one you do know.People who are over weight are well able to see them selves in a mirror and read the scales.Theres no need to lower any ones self esteem even further

also im not saying the comments on my weight contributed to my problems but they certaintly didnt help.

Pace2008

I would never consciously look down on a person or treat them differently because of their weight, in the same way I'd never consciously look down on a person because they're ugly or disabled. However, I can't help but feel a slight sense of revulsion when I see people actively feeding their destructive lifestyles - the twenty-stoner ordering three meals at McDonalds or the colossus I see carrying a bag half his size from the chippers every evening. I know there are psychological issues at play but in most cases it's not a full-blown mental or physical illness that has them where they are; like anything it could be overcome if they bothered their arses.

Wacker wrote: »

Feel free to give me examples of fatties ruining things for everyone; I'm very open to correction. I just can't help but feel that I've got more important concerns in my sock drawer right now. [Pacman]

Obese people are a considerable drain on the health system and cost the taxpayer a good deal of money.

Well, I would ask your fitness instructor friend what she would make of two brothers, only two years apart, who eat the same food, lead the same lifestyle with regards to alcohol consumption and such, one of whom goes to the gym twice a week, the other does no exercise whatsoever. The brother who does exercise has been struggling with weight since his early teens, yet the one who rarely gets off his ass is a thin as a rake, and always has been.

Tough luck - he lost the genetic lottery and has a slower metabolism than his brother. He shouldn't be eating the same food as his brother, he should be eating less. Controlling one's weight is simple for most people: you have a basal metabolic rate - the amount of energy or calories you expend per day at rest - which could be 1500 or 3000 calories. If you take in significantly more than that amount you gain weight, if you take in less you lose it. It's as simple as that for the majority of people. It'd also be worth pointing out that exercise plays a minor role in weight control compared to diet. It would take well over an hour of steady-state cardio to burn off the calories taken in by eating a Big Mac Meal. It'd be easier to just not eat the burger.

That said - and I know it sounds like a clichéd cop-out- the government is partly to blame for this problem. The information on proper diet they provide to the public is shocking. The Food Pyramid is still being pushed as the guideline for healthy eating despite the fact that it's broken. Eating six portions of starchy carbohydrates is one of the more effective ways to put on weight and white bread is more likely to contribute to heart disease than the demonised saturated fat, which is appearing to be increasingly benign as research progresses. Between this misinformation, parental neglect in regards to nutrition, and confusing fad diets, I find it somewhat understandable that people develop bad habits and fail to keep their weight in check.

RealEstateKing

There seems to be a never-ending stream of people on boards with this sort of "Boo-hoo you're breaking my heart" , "Sort yourself out" "Take responsibility for yourself" attitude to overweight people.

Though they are correct in that any overweight person is ultimately responsible for their own fatness, there is a simplification to their thinking that misses the issue. Fatness is as complicated and difficult to solve as other issues like alcoholism and heroin addiction. Just because ultimately, being overweight is a question of eating more calories than you burn, does not make it a simple thing to change.

Imagine you were talking to an alcohol counsellor and their advice was simply: "What you need to do, is to stop drinking." You'd say "Well duh! If it was as simple as that I wouldnt need to talk to an alcohol consellor to find out how to do it!"

Of course losing weight is simply a question of eating less calories than you burn. Its how one gets into the headspace to do that that is the question. There are any number of psychological reasons that make people more likely to be over-eaters, in much the same way (and often in the same people) as there are in alcoholics and/or drug users.

There are a myriad of feelings of emptiness/depression and anxiety that the person is medicating with food in many cases. This bone-headed "Just pull-your-socks-up" attitude does not help to deal with the fundamental issue - unless we're talking about somebody who just needs to drop a dress size before a wedding or something comparitively easy.

If a person is obese, getting skinny (and remaining so) , is easily one of the hardest things any human being can possibly experience. Far harder, in fact than quitting the booze or smack would be, as those drugs satisfy no normal need in the human body: Food, on the other hand is very difficult to deprive your body of, and if a person is really obese it can take several years to lose the amount of weight needed to be a normal size. Most alcohol/drug addicts are clean within 28 days. Most of us wouldnt even be able to lose a noticable amount of weight in that time.


As well as this there ARE differences in the way different human bodies deal with energy consumption. While these differences do not explain every pound in difference between people, they are a general tendency in the same way that some people pick up musical instruments easily where others might struggle for years to learn to play a chord.

I have several friends who are rake thin, do no exercise and drink 3 or 4 pints every night - Where I myself am always potentially overweight: I cycle at least 1 and a half hours every day, and do 5 or 6 hours on both days at the weekend, and have to deny myself food that I badly want most of the rest of the time, to remain at a normalish weight. My friend desperately wants to be bulkier, and has at times even resorted to stuffing himself with more food than he wants and doing no exercise for a few weeks to bulk up, and it doesnt work. We often joke about how his metabolism mixed with mine would create the perfect guy.

Further to this, as well, is that of all the addictions/psychological illnesses that a person can suffer from, obesity must be the one that garners the least sympathy. All reasonably educated people have an enlightened attitude to alcoholism now, we see it as a disease, and those that struggle with it as deserving of our sympathy and our support. We know that there is a whole complex of psychological, physical, historical and possibly genetic factors that go into making a person an alcoholic. But for some reason, some of us do not extend this thinking to the issue of obesity.

And to add insult to injury: As well as being physically handicapping, obesity can actually destroy a person's personal life: One of my friends is obese. They are still a virgin at 32 and likely to remain so, forever. Nobody is ever likely to want a sexual relationship with this person as a result of his weight. Were he an alco or a junkie he'd actually be better off in this regard. Hell he could be a sexy wasted youth like Pete Doherty with Kate Moss on his arm.

As a result of this, I have every sympathy for those who struggle with their weight and particularly those who are obese. Its a ****in' toughie and there's no easy way around it. I in no way condone of course, those who suggest 'Fat Pride' or any of that, and I am fattist in the sense that I too would never sleep with an obese person. But I absolutely respect them for the struggle they deal with every day, that many skinny people simply dont know about or understand.

Lets be honest here... if people avoided fast food and eating late at nights most of them wouldn't have weight issues. The problem is that they gain the weight in their early twenties, keep it going into their thirties, and when they try to turn into a healthy (ish) lifestyle they have to change habits well formed.

There's nothing wrong with most of the "normal" food thats part of Irish culture. The problem is the times that people eat, and the other types of food they take in.

I have a friend who's particularly large. Moans all the time about it. Goes to the Gym and punishes herself every few days. Eats small quantities of low-fat food each day, drinks water, goes for walks.... and then goes drinking heavily on the weekend, which is usually followed up on both nights with large portions of fast food crap. At least once a week, she'll also "treat" herself to a home delivery of a Chinese or other such. (which isn't really chinese food, but more glug) And of course its ordered after 8pm.

Most fat people I know aren't really interested in losing weight. Oh a few pounds here or there, but they'll not change their lifestyle where it counts. They're convinced that punishing themselves in the gym, taking walks, and other such activities will offset their lazy attitudes towards food.

But then it also gives them something they can complain about, and considering the numbers of fat people these days, they form a club almost. Its a bit like smokers following the introduction of the smoking ban. We knew what we were doing was extremely unhealthy, but misery loves company. And misery can be awfully appealing at times.

RealEstateKing

RealEstateKing wrote: »

I have several friends who are rake thin, do no exercise and drink 3 or 4 pints every night - Where I myself am always potentially overweight: I cycle at least 1 and a half hours every day, and do 5 or 6 hours on both days at the weekend, and have to deny myself food that I badly want most of the rest of the time, to remain at a normalish weight. My friend desperately wants to be bulkier, and has at times even resorted to stuffing himself with more food than he wants and doing no exercise for a few weeks to bulk up, and it doesnt work. We often joke about how his metabolism mixed with mine would create the perfect guy.

Ever see that film Super Size Me about McDonalds' food? I saw that and thought cool (regardless of the health issues). So I ate in McDonalds for four weeks (Breakfast, lunch, and dinner), thinking I'd see some noticeable gain. Nope. Not a bit. Only thing I got was a hatred for that type of fast food..

Thanks to age, my metabolism is starting to slow down a wee bit. I take great pride that my hip bones no longer jut out. I am the normal weight for my height, but even so, I gave up on gaining muscle mass years ago. Maybe in another 5 years, I might be able to get it, and keep it.

LadyJ

Zascar wrote: »

She told me all this Genetic Predisposition stuff is all rubbish, 99.9% is bad diet and not enough exercise. She said loads of her clients loose loads of weight but few keep it off. It's just a lifestyle thing.

While this may be true, there is sometimes a lot more going on with a person than just making bad lifestyle choices. Over-eating, like anorexia, can be about control and a whole range of emotional/psychological problems can be at play, even if the person does not realise it themselves.

As for exercise, conditions like depression/anxiety can cause a lot of people to not want to go outside much and they can feel seriously demotivated.

I'm sure there are people who are just lazy out there but don't oversimplify the matter too quickly.

Starfox

Its about attitude and what kind of it you have, your body is your car and your food is your fuel, so what type of fuel do you use, or do you even care!

If you look at fat america, its easy to agree that for the most part people are overfed and undernourished and its all about taste rather than quality. (or else its all that growth hormones in their life stock) And i have to agree that unless you have some sort of condition like an overactive thyroid or something else like an emotional hold back you cant get over, you have no excuse for being a overweight and nobody to blame but yourself, eat healthy get out or get in the gym or sit on that couch and drown your sorrows eating that pie.

After i turned 20 i was heading down hill putting on weight, eating junk! but over year ago i started going to go to the gym and eating healthy, lost nearly 2 stone, toned well up and am feeling pretty dam well, so im not just waffling on here

If you want something badly enough do something about it!

Zamboni

Being fat is quite depressing.
I experienced it for a number of years and spent years struggling with it.
Then I did something that the majority of overweight people don't do and I educated myself about obesity and nutrition.
After a lot of blood, sweat and tears I brought my body back to a healthy bodyfat level.
It is not easy. And therein lies the problem. Although most overweight people hate having excess fat tissue, few are prepared to make the sacrifices required to fix the problem.
Some overweight people would rather cry into a tub full of Chinese on a Friday night then go to a gym, weigh their food, count calories, cook their own food, drink water, take measurements etc. I know this because (a) I was one and (b) I have trained a number of them.
As has been previously said, it is ultimately up to the individual, regardless of other causes such as loneliness, bad parents, psychological issues etc.
My main sympathy lies with the overweight person who makes serious attempts to lose weight only to be fooled by the many gimmicks out there such as weight loss tablets and fitness contraptions on TV ads and dodgy weight loss guru's.

Dudess

Judging someone's character based on their weight is pretty hateful really. The "they're affecting the health service/my taxes" argument is a cop-out, as well as the "they obviously have no strength of character" one. And why feel such disdain for a person whose choices do not affect you?

That said, I do have a problem with certain aspects of our culture celebrating obesity (I know our culture does the very opposite too) - e.g. very overweight women being urged to "celebrate their curves". That's of no help to them whatsoever. Overweight women should be given support and encouragement to improve their health, not that condescending "real women have curves" bullsh1t.

But while the majority of cases of obesity are due to storing too much calories, the black and white "just eat less, move more" approach is often useless - as if overweight people don't know that. There are complex psychological aspects to it, and most people don't want to be fat. As LadyJ says, anorexia is recognised as a psychologically complex relationship with food, why can't some cases of obesity be? Because they are. There are people with food addictions - like a drug or alcohol or nicotine addiction.

By the way, I do not think there are not overweight people who could just lose the weight by going about it the usual way except they're just too lazy. I also have no patience with people who whinge non stop about being overweight and never appear to make a hint of an effort to do anything about it, nor do I have patience for people coming up with all sorts of excuses for their weight.

Dudess

RealEstateKing wrote: »

There seems to be a never-ending stream of people on boards with this sort of "Boo-hoo you're breaking my heart" , "Sort yourself out" "Take responsibility for yourself" attitude to overweight people.

Though they are correct in that any overweight person is ultimately responsible for their own fatness, there is a simplification to their thinking that misses the issue. Fatness is as complicated and difficult to solve as other issues like alcoholism and heroin addiction. Just because ultimately, being overweight is a question of eating more calories than you burn, does not make it a simple thing to change.

Imagine you were talking to an alcohol counsellor and their advice was simply: "What you need to do, is to stop drinking." You'd say "Well duh! If it was as simple as that I wouldnt need to talk to an alcohol consellor to find out how to do it!"

Of course losing weight is simply a question of eating less calories than you burn. Its how one gets into the headspace to do that that is the question. There are any number of psychological reasons that make people more likely to be over-eaters, in much the same way (and often in the same people) as there are in alcoholics and/or drug users.

There are a myriad of feelings of emptiness/depression and anxiety that the person is medicating with food in many cases. This bone-headed "Just pull-your-socks-up" attitude does not help to deal with the fundamental issue - unless we're talking about somebody who just needs to drop a dress size before a wedding or something comparitively easy.

If a person is obese, getting skinny (and remaining so) , is easily one of the hardest things any human being can possibly experience. Far harder, in fact than quitting the booze or smack would be, as those drugs satisfy no normal need in the human body: Food, on the other hand is very difficult to deprive your body of, and if a person is really obese it can take several years to lose the amount of weight needed to be a normal size. Most alcohol/drug addicts are clean within 28 days. Most of us wouldnt even be able to lose a noticable amount of weight in that time.


As well as this there ARE differences in the way different human bodies deal with energy consumption. While these differences do not explain every pound in difference between people, they are a general tendency in the same way that some people pick up musical instruments easily where others might struggle for years to learn to play a chord.

I have several friends who are rake thin, do no exercise and drink 3 or 4 pints every night - Where I myself am always potentially overweight: I cycle at least 1 and a half hours every day, and do 5 or 6 hours on both days at the weekend, and have to deny myself food that I badly want most of the rest of the time, to remain at a normalish weight. My friend desperately wants to be bulkier, and has at times even resorted to stuffing himself with more food than he wants and doing no exercise for a few weeks to bulk up, and it doesnt work. We often joke about how his metabolism mixed with mine would create the perfect guy.

Further to this, as well, is that of all the addictions/psychological illnesses that a person can suffer from, obesity must be the one that garners the least sympathy. All reasonably educated people have an enlightened attitude to alcoholism now, we see it as a disease, and those that struggle with it as deserving of our sympathy and our support. We know that there is a whole complex of psychological, physical, historical and possibly genetic factors that go into making a person an alcoholic. But for some reason, some of us do not extend this thinking to the issue of obesity.

And to add insult to injury: As well as being physically handicapping, obesity can actually destroy a person's personal life: One of my friends is obese. They are still a virgin at 32 and likely to remain so, forever. Nobody is ever likely to want a sexual relationship with this person as a result of his weight. Were he an alco or a junkie he'd actually be better off in this regard. Hell he could be a sexy wasted youth like Pete Doherty with Kate Moss on his arm.

As a result of this, I have every sympathy for those who struggle with their weight and particularly those who are obese. Its a ****in' toughie and there's no easy way around it. I in no way condone of course, those who suggest 'Fat Pride' or any of that, and I am fattist in the sense that I too would never sleep with an obese person. But I absolutely respect them for the struggle they deal with every day, that many skinny people simply dont know about or understand.

Amazing post. Yeah, some people just don't like fat people for how they look, end of.

Zamboni

The more people continue to spout 'complex psychological issues' the more people will continue to die of heart disease and diabetes type 2 and other obesity related illness.
Don't judge overweight people but please don't mollycoddle them either.
If you keep focusing the why you will never get to the solution.
Overweight people need support not a get out of jail free card.

LadyJ

Zamboni wrote: »

The more people continue to spout 'complex psychological issues' the more people will continue to die of heart disease and diabetes type 2 and other obesity related illness.
Don't judge overweight people but please don't mollycoddle them either.
If you keep focusing the why you will never get to the solution.
Overweight people need support not a get out of jail free card.

Nobody is saying that they need to be mollycoddled. What they do need,(and I'm not talking about people who are a little pudgey out of laziness), like anorexics, is a lot of help and therapy. Food clinics etc.

People seem to find so much more sympathy for people who under-eat as opposed to people who over-eat. It can be almost exactly the same psychological issues at play, just the behaviour is reversed.

Anorexia can also lead to morbid conditions and death and it is a horrible disease, but a disease it is! No one should ignore or "mollycoddle" anorexics or the obese. They need help or they will die. However, there are complex psychological issues at play for both so try to understand that.

Obese people need a slap around the head and someone telling them to "cop the fúck on" as much as an anorexic needs that. They need therapy and a multidiciplinary plan.

Piglet85

No. I know it's human nature, but I would try to refrain from being judgemental about people's appearances as much as possible to be honest, because although you may think you can tell a lot from someone looks, they can definitely be deceiving.

I've been fat (size 16), and I'm a size 12 now, having been one for around three years. I have never been thinner. My diet is generally very good; I rarely eat breat, pasta, rice, potatoes, cakes etc, always have at least 5 fruit and veg a day, and keep junk food such as crisps and chocolate as an occasional treat. I also exercise five days a week, and although I am losing weight gradually at that, if I eat the way my friends and family do for even one day, I gain. I have a friend who eats way more than I do and never gets off her arse, and she's a steady stone and a half lighter than I am.

My point is, to look at us, it seems a lot of the people here would assume that I'm the lazy one, that I don't eat as well as she does or have excessive portions. That's not true, quite the opposite. I have a slow metabolism, she has a fast one. Fair enough, that's something I have to understand about myself, and I do. But I don't think it's reasonable for other people to make assumptions about me, or others, because there are always other factors which you can't tell by looking at someone. Why is it ok to be scornful of fat people when there are plenty of skinny people whose habits are just as bad, only they happen to be 'lucky'?

Having said that, I do hate to see really fat children, because I know that people don't get excessively big without eating too much of the wrong foods and/or having sedentary lifestyles, and if a child lives like this it's not their fault. Puppy fat, though, is a different thing. But as for adults, their size is their business, and the fact that I would probably no longer be perceived as fat by many people does not make me a better person than the one I was before I made the decision to lose weight.

Pace2008

RealEstateKing wrote: »

Fatness is as complicated and difficult to solve as other issues like alcoholism and heroin addiction. Just because ultimately, being overweight is a question of eating more calories than you burn, does not make it a simple thing to change.

Imagine you were talking to an alcohol counsellor and their advice was simply: "What you need to do, is to stop drinking." You'd say "Well duh! If it was as simple as that I wouldnt need to talk to an alcohol consellor to find out how to do it!"
before a wedding or something comparitively easy.

...

Most alcohol/drug addicts are clean within 28 days. Most of us wouldnt even be able to lose a noticable amount of weight in that time.

Likening obesity to alcohol or heroin dependency is a somewhat poor comparison since the latter are physical addictions that will result in serious illness on withdrawal, or even death in the case of alcohol. It's also inaccurate to state that that the addict is free once they're clean as there's also serious psychological addiction at play that can often be more difficult to overcome than the physical aspect. You seem to be treating the issue of substance abuse with the same misunderstanding and offhandedness that others show towards the issue of obesity.

I do agree in part with the rest of what you've said though. Reading back over the thread I think I and others may have been oversimplifying things a bit and come across as callous. Judging by what you've said, I think a better comparison to an obese person than the aforementioned drug addict might be someone who's extremely shy. They know what they have to do to overcome their problem but it's not that easy to just go out and be brash and assertive.

If a person is obese, getting skinny (and remaining so) , is easily one of the hardest things any human being can possibly experience. Far harder, in fact than quitting the booze or smack would be, as those drugs satisfy no normal need in the human body: Food, on the other hand is very difficult to deprive your body of, and if a person is really obese it can take several years to lose the amount of weight needed to be a normal size. Most alcohol/drug addicts are clean within 28 days. Most of us wouldn't even be able to lose a noticeable amount of weight in that time.

Agreed on some of this; not on the highlighted. There is no quick-fix for obesity and if you've got several stone to shed you're in for a long slog. Realistically speaking, you're not going to lose more than two pounds a week and this is if you unerringly stick to a strict diet, something that will take a lot of getting used to for someone who's not in the habit of counting calories and working out macro splits. I guess I can sympathise with someone who doesn't see any visibly noticeable change in body composition after months of hard work, and could understand how they'd despair at the apparent futility of it all and slip back into their self-destructive ways.

However, I don't see hunger alone as being a viable excuse for staying fat. Your body does indeed need food but even on an inadvisable very low calorie diet one's energy needs are provided for by ample stores of fat. Fat people aren't the only ones that have to contend with being hungry - not everyone who's thin is that way because of their prodigious metabolism; many of them make enormous sacrifices to stay the way they are. I'm 5'9 and have an admittedly high BMR of about 3000 calories per day, but this is offset by a freakish appetite. I can eat a wagon-wheel pizza or a chipper and Chinese together, washed down with a few beers, and still feel hungry two hours later. I would happily eat all the time and I reckon I could take in 5000-6000 calories a day. I'm hungry all the time and drink (a probably unhealthy) 10 litres of water a day just to keep somewhat full. I've never been fat , so I won't pretend I know what it's like to be that way or to understand the mentality of fat people, but if someone's overweight purely because they can't show some sacrifice in this regard I think they're fully to blame for their plight.

As you say though, it must be a fairly miserable existence being severely obese so I guess I'd have to show them some sympathy.

Zamboni

Far too many do-gooders on this thread.

I will cheer on the overweight person who becomes proactive and looks after their diet and takes up exercise.

You guys can cheer on the overweight person who sits on the couch with a curry and throws in the 'complex psychological issues' towel.

Goduznt Xzst

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

If you're predisposed to being fat you should be making MORE of an effort to stay slim, not using it as an excuse.

enry wrote: »

TELL THE HIM TO STOP EATING SO MUCH, SIMPLE AS

00sully wrote: »

Its up to everyone to sort it out for themselves and everyone should.

All of you have failed to explain "Why"?

Why is an individuals life choices of any concern to you? Why "should" they get thinner? So what if a person wants to live their life sedentary, relaxed, watching TV, eating fatty foods. Of what concern is it to you.

You call them "lazy"... why is this important. Why is the amount of movement a person does important. Is a person who sits for 3 hours of less worth then a person who runs around in a circle for 3 hours?

We all have destructive habits, or live or work in environments not conducive to a long life. If someone decides to live on a fault line then dies in an Earthquake its a tragedy. If someone decides to overeat and dies of heart disease it's their own fault and they should of known better.

People are different and values and priorities change between individuals. Some people jump out of planes with parachutes, some people eat fast food. We all are searching for what makes us happy in life, regardless of how it might lessen or increase our actual existence.

Pace2008

You wouldn't employ someone who's fat or smokes? What bearing do either of those have on someone's employability?

coconut5

Just going back to what somebody was saying about obesity being similiar to alcoholism or heroin. I don't know about that, but what I do know is that it is really hard for people to change their ways because you can't quit eating in the same way you can stop drinking or taking drugs. You have to eat something every day, and this is why it is so hard for people to get out of the overweight cycle. They have to fill their bodies with something, and suddenly switching from what you like to stuff that takes more effort to prepare and cook, I don't know. I think it's tough. You have to think about it every single day, not just keep away from the stuff.

But yeah, some of the people I saw in the US were just horrendous looking. I think Irish people have a tendency to be a bit overweight, but not in the scarily massive way that the fat people in America were (that I saw anyway).

Dudess

Zamboni wrote: »

Far too many do-gooders on this thread.

No there aren't - you're only assuming there are because you're not reading the posts properly.

You guys can cheer on the overweight person who sits on the couch with a curry and throws in the 'complex psychological issues' towel.

/facepalm

Do read the posts properly.

Zamboni

Dudess wrote: »

No there aren't - you're only assuming there are because you're not reading the posts properly.

/facepalm

Do read the posts properly.

Apologies, I should have been more specific.
Too many misguided, PC, do-gooders on this thread.
I can read quite perfectly but posters here seem to concentrate on the problems and the excuses for people being overweight.
I would rather focus on the means and solutions in which to help people overcome this.
The only attempt I have seen from the other side to address this was a mention of 'food clinics' and therapy.
As this country has neither the expertise nor the resources to provide such services, in the absence of these services I would rather help people to overcome their weight problems through tried and tested means of diet and exercise.
2005 stats from the Obesity Taskforce put 39% of the adult population in Ireland as being overweight.
If anyone here is under the impression that any decent size portion of the figure are people with complex psychological issues and emotional disorders then the country is in a far worse state than I thought.
I don't judge overweight people but I won't sit back and watch people defend obesity through some misguided political correctness.

Dudess

Presume Myers was being an ignorant ****-rag, as ever... Let me guess: "mental illness is all in the head" or other such attention-seeking nonsense.

Zamboni wrote: »

Apologies, I should have been more specific.
Too many misguided, PC, do-gooders on this thread.

Sigh. You don't even know what "PC" and "do-gooder" mean if your examples of same are some of the posts here.

I can read quite perfectly but posters here seem to concentrate on the problems and the excuses for people being overweight.

No, you are clearly not reading the posts properly - or else you're just choosing to interpret them the way you want, so that you can get to be all no-nonsense and call people "do-gooders" and bleat on about "political correctness". Nobody is saying overweight people aren't the ones ultimately who have to lose the weight, nobody is saying overweight people should stay overweight and die early... what they are saying is that in many cases, a person is overweight for reasons more than just consuming too many calories. If you want to get basic about it, well yes, that is the only reason they are overweight, but why they consume too many calories needs to be examined if they are to be able to help themselves. Sure, in many cases it's simply being a fan of too much junkfood, but in many other cases it is more complex than that - so the "just get off your ass and put down the fork" approach is useless to them. What is being advocated here is not the neglecting of obesity - as you seem so keen to tell us is the case - it is the opposite, a tackling of it in a more useful, beneficial way.

I would rather focus on the means and solutions in which to help people overcome this.

... but that to you is "cop on and stop eating crap" whereas those of us who are "do-gooders" or whatever are advocating a far more valuable approach.

The only attempt I have seen from the other side to address this was a mention of 'food clinics' and therapy.

That's just disingenuousness - plenty of people are calling for a more holistic approach to addressing this rather than coming from one narrow angle.

As this country has neither the expertise nor the resources to provide such services, in the absence of these services I would rather help people to overcome their weight problems through tried and tested means of diet and exercise.

And there you go - missing the point. Do you not think overweight people with psychological issues when it comes to food don't know they need to eat healthily and exercise? Yet they're not managing to do it. Now some people just don't bother, but I'm not talking about those - I'm talking about those who try but who just find it too much of a struggle and need to get things sorted in their heads before they can tackle this obstacle which is a huge one for them.

2005 stats from the Obesity Taskforce put 39% of the adult population in Ireland as being overweight.
If anyone here is under the impression that any decent size portion of the figure are people with complex psychological issues and emotional disorders then the country is in a far worse state than I thought.

Why wouldn't that be the case with a decent portion? Just because it doesn't suit your argument? I'm very confident that is the case - I really can't see why it wouldn't be.

I don't judge overweight people but I won't sit back and watch people defend obesity through some misguided political correctness.

Oh now you're scraping the bottom of the barrel - who the **** is defending obesity? And no, people aren't more understanding of the difficulties an obese person has just for the sake of being "politically correct"... :rolleyes:
Political correctness is a system of ensuring nobody is offended yet I would say the following: obesity is dreadfully unhealthy, it's unattractive (generally speaking), fat women are not "curvy", fat people who are unhappy about their weight should not simply "accept themselves" - they should go down whatever avenues they can to lose the weight healthily (I'm not including surgery or fad diets), obesity is celebrated in some quarters - it shouldn't be.

starflake

I was obese 16 months ago 20 stone 5 at 5 foot 6! I'm now 4 stone lighter. I've lost 20% of my body weight in 16 months and still have another 6 stone to go! people still look at me like I'm **** even though I eat really well, exercise more now than i was physically able to do last year.

All I can say is there's nothing more soul destroying than looking into strangers faces knowing that they're disgusted by you.

Reading these posts and thinking if certain posters here saw me on the street ye would be disgusted by me.

I've put my heart and soul into losing weight the last year and I'm doing it.. but I firmly believe that only people who have been as obese as I was/am can know the pain felt knowing that you're disgusting to society. If it was as easy as just eating less I would have done it years ago. but it's not. I have never known anything but disordered eating. Never. when i was a child i ate too much, when I was a teenager there was other problems... As a young adult I ate too much. Now that's gone... My whole way of thinking about food has had to change. My life has had to change.. I still disgust myself... and others... all I'm saying is give us a break eh?!

We know we're disgusting, we know we're unhealthy, we hate ourselves... but hearing that reenforced by others is really just adding insult to injury...

My aim is to be half my original body weight on my 25th birthday... i'm proud of myself I really am, I'm just afraid that when all this fat and stuff is gone... I will still feel the same underneath... I can be as brave and gutsy as hell and lose weight week by week but.... if I still feel the same shame and disgust at myself then... i don't know if I can be brave if I'm faced with that...

Just try sticking your feet in the other sides shoes... look at it from both sides... nothing is that simple guys.

Zamboni

starflake wrote: »

I was obese 16 months ago 20 stone 5 at 5 foot 6! I'm now 4 stone lighter. I've lost 20% of my body weight in 16 months and still have another 6 stone to go!

That is awesome progress starflake.
Ignore people that give you looks. They're idiots.
You may not have all your issues resolved from the weight loss but being in good shape can have an extremely positive mental effect on your outlook which I am sure will help you tremendously.

starflake

Thank you Zamboni... here's hoping! It just goes to show that being obese damages your physical health but it can damage your mental health more... Thanks again

herya

Deleted User wrote: »

Lets be honest here... if people avoided fast food and eating late at nights most of them wouldn't have weight issues.

While I agree with you in general (and specifically about junk food role) I believe that the "eating late=overweight" myth has been debunked? Calorie intake is calorie intake after all and you still burn sleeping.

Handsome Bob

MrEko wrote: »

Yes, without any shame either. Whenever I see an already large kid walk (or waddle) around with an ice cream in its hand I get the urge to take it off him and just tell him 'No!'.

People who say 'Its not his/her fault' or 'They cant help be who they are' are just kidding themselves.

Well if he's a kid, I wouldn't say it's his fault, since it would most likely be the parents that are fostering the lifestyle in him.

RealEstateKing wrote: »

There seems to be a never-ending stream of people on boards with this sort of "Boo-hoo you're breaking my heart" , "Sort yourself out" "Take responsibility for yourself" attitude to overweight people.

Though they are correct in that any overweight person is ultimately responsible for their own fatness, there is a simplification to their thinking that misses the issue. Fatness is as complicated and difficult to solve as other issues like alcoholism and heroin addiction. Just because ultimately, being overweight is a question of eating more calories than you burn, does not make it a simple thing to change.

Imagine you were talking to an alcohol counsellor and their advice was simply: "What you need to do, is to stop drinking." You'd say "Well duh! If it was as simple as that I wouldnt need to talk to an alcohol consellor to find out how to do it!"

Of course losing weight is simply a question of eating less calories than you burn. Its how one gets into the headspace to do that that is the question. There are any number of psychological reasons that make people more likely to be over-eaters, in much the same way (and often in the same people) as there are in alcoholics and/or drug users.

There are a myriad of feelings of emptiness/depression and anxiety that the person is medicating with food in many cases. This bone-headed "Just pull-your-socks-up" attitude does not help to deal with the fundamental issue - unless we're talking about somebody who just needs to drop a dress size before a wedding or something comparitively easy.

If a person is obese, getting skinny (and remaining so) , is easily one of the hardest things any human being can possibly experience. Far harder, in fact than quitting the booze or smack would be, as those drugs satisfy no normal need in the human body: Food, on the other hand is very difficult to deprive your body of, and if a person is really obese it can take several years to lose the amount of weight needed to be a normal size. Most alcohol/drug addicts are clean within 28 days. Most of us wouldnt even be able to lose a noticable amount of weight in that time.


As well as this there ARE differences in the way different human bodies deal with energy consumption. While these differences do not explain every pound in difference between people, they are a general tendency in the same way that some people pick up musical instruments easily where others might struggle for years to learn to play a chord.

I have several friends who are rake thin, do no exercise and drink 3 or 4 pints every night - Where I myself am always potentially overweight: I cycle at least 1 and a half hours every day, and do 5 or 6 hours on both days at the weekend, and have to deny myself food that I badly want most of the rest of the time, to remain at a normalish weight. My friend desperately wants to be bulkier, and has at times even resorted to stuffing himself with more food than he wants and doing no exercise for a few weeks to bulk up, and it doesnt work. We often joke about how his metabolism mixed with mine would create the perfect guy.

Further to this, as well, is that of all the addictions/psychological illnesses that a person can suffer from, obesity must be the one that garners the least sympathy. All reasonably educated people have an enlightened attitude to alcoholism now, we see it as a disease, and those that struggle with it as deserving of our sympathy and our support. We know that there is a whole complex of psychological, physical, historical and possibly genetic factors that go into making a person an alcoholic. But for some reason, some of us do not extend this thinking to the issue of obesity.

And to add insult to injury: As well as being physically handicapping, obesity can actually destroy a person's personal life: One of my friends is obese. They are still a virgin at 32 and likely to remain so, forever. Nobody is ever likely to want a sexual relationship with this person as a result of his weight. Were he an alco or a junkie he'd actually be better off in this regard. Hell he could be a sexy wasted youth like Pete Doherty with Kate Moss on his arm.

As a result of this, I have every sympathy for those who struggle with their weight and particularly those who are obese. Its a ****in' toughie and there's no easy way around it. I in no way condone of course, those who suggest 'Fat Pride' or any of that, and I am fattist in the sense that I too would never sleep with an obese person. But I absolutely respect them for the struggle they deal with every day, that many skinny people simply dont know about or understand.

Spot on, probably the best post I've read in regards to weight issues on Boards.

Look, I used to be 16 stone at a relatively small height. Fat all my life as far as can remember. What this guy above me says is absolutely spot on, you have no idea have much it takes to mentally get yourself in the zone for losing weight. You are looking at yourself in the mirror and you can't see the end of the road, so it takes a significant amount of mental strength to get active, and stay active.

Am I a fattist? No, and I'll never will be. I pity fat people because I know what it's like to be in their shoes. Anyone who thinks a fat person is happy the way they are needs to wake up. I hated myself for so long but I couldn't bring myself to get out to the gym because I was too ashamed of myself. I used to get abuse yelled at me just walking on the street, so I would be absolutely terrified to even try to go on a run. Just imagine the abuse I would have got then. The gym is the same, full of snobby idiots sniggering at the fat guy struggling on the machines.

I remember talking to a girl about her weight issues (she knew I had lost the weight so felt she could confide in me). She told me that she would get constant abuse on the street from kids and adults. It got to the point where she would just put on her Ipod at full blast, just so she could drown out the abuse. That's absolutely heartbreaking to me, what gives any of you the right to make someone feel like that? You all have your vices, so get off your high horse.

lizzyvera

I know a lot of fat girls. A good friend of mine has a thing for fat girls, and fat girls tend to hang out with other fat girls so my fat girl pool of contacts is quite large. Maybe they have emotional issues but they are all gluttons and they don't do enough exercise. Sometimes you have to get past your emotions and do the sensible thing.

Perhaps there should be free counselling in colleges and schools for fat people to help them lose weight. It would probably pay off in the long run.

SLUSK

At what point is it proven dangerous to be fat? People are way fatter now than in the 50ies and 60ies yet the average life expectancy is longer. If someone else is fat it is none of your business. Leave us fatties to our hedonistic ways of living.

jumpguy

I do find that when I see a fat teen I'm rather fattist. Ironic considering I was a fat child when I was around 10/11/12. When I see a fat middle-aged man though I'm not.

At what point is it proven dangerous to be fat? Well, heart disease is the biggest risk factor. Lots of other things come to mind, it's been found that it increases your risk of developing dementia too (correct me if I'm wrong, anyone).

I.J.

Zascar wrote: »

I was told that I was "Fattist" the other day by a friend, and I have to say I can't really deny it. It may not be very PC but its something I've got little sympathy for. Met a girl a few weeks ago who was a fitness instructor and specialised in weight loss. She told me all this Genetic Predisposition stuff is all rubbish, 99.9% is bad diet and not enough exercise. She said loads of her clients loose loads of weight but few keep it off. It's just a lifestyle thing.

It may be hard for some, but ultimately everyone has control over their own weight - so really you cannot pass the blame. If you really want to do it, it can be done. I on the other hand am quite short, but there is not a dam thing I can do to make myself taller (without ridiculous surgery)

Statistics show that if you child is overweight by the age of 5, it has an 80% chance of having weight problems for the rest of its life. Many countries around the world are in pandemic states with health problems due to so many people being massively overweight. Being all PC and defending obese people is not the way to fixing the problem

Psychological issues tend to be over looked an awful lot. It is found that some people who suffer from depression can often fall into a lifestyle which leads to them being overweight. So much is the paralysis of their depression that even greater difficulty is put on them from losing weight. This is only one vague example of why some people are overweight and need our support and not to be put down and discouraged as this reaction may only make mattes worse.

stovelid

Nope.

My view of what constitutes an attractive body is pretty wide and would contravene the accepted norm for many guys. That's from what would be termed plump to skinny. All depends on the person.

I don't find a awful lot of weight or obesity attractive though.

That said: I don't like cruelty. The stop eating cakes view. We should probably reserve the same sympathy for obese people that we do for people with more 'quantifiable' body issues.