Will the cops not just admit they have lost control ?

Ally Dick

I am sick and tired of this country's lawlessness. Another stabbing in Bray last night. The murders and crimes are racking up at an alarming rate. The gardai seem to be totally ineffectual in dealing with the situation. For the love of God, will they not just admit that they have lost control ? It's only with a formal admission of helplessness that we can move on and establish a proper police force. It seems to me that the bulk of the gardai are in place because of nepotism. Why don't we get John Timoney over from New York and pay him a bundle to implement zero tolerance over here ? That's what is needed I'm afraid.

phasers

Doesn't admitting that there's no control generally lead to complete anarchy?

Prof.Badass

Crime will never go away under the current system. There is too much money to be made by criminals. This fuels violent crime and a crime culture is developed that trickles down through society.

In 20 years time someone will make a post shockingly simmilar to your own.

Robbo

I feel the only solution for this is an internet based vigilante system, where targets are decided by polls on AH.

Mr Jinx

Ally Dick wrote: »

I am sick and tired of this country's lawlessness. Another stabbing in Bray last night. The murders and crimes are racking up at an alarming rate. The gardai seem to be totally ineffectual in dealing with the situation. For the love of God, will they not just admit that they have lost control ? It's only with a formal admission of helplessness that we can move on and establish a proper police force. It seems to me that the bulk of the gardai are in place because of nepotism. Why don't we get John Timoney over from New York and pay him a bundle to implement zero tolerance over here ? That's what is needed I'm afraid.

Yes, because the Gardai are able to predict that scumbags are going to get drunk and stab someone. They turn up just before the crime happens !!:rolleyes:

TheZohanS

How the hell do you expect the Gardai to stop some idiot from stabbing someone in a private house at 4.30am?

Biggins

The law is an ass and they know it more so.

A LOT of the present Gardi are VERY disillusioned and dis-heartened.
* They see scum in the courts every day only to be let off with lite slaps on the wrist, told "never to sin again"
* They are political fodder for the parties!
* They are moving, easy to pick on targets for those that want a quick answer to why there is so much crime! (Blame them, they mustn't be doing their job! :rolleyes: )
* They face a mountain of paper work for the smallest of things!
* Frankly the public does not help them as much as they could - and they could! For crying out loud - at least use the confidential number sometimes people!
* Their training, their funding, their tools and equipment has been cut.

If they have lost control as you say completely, I personally don't lay the blame first at their doorstep.
Any workman is only as good as the tools he/she has within reach to use and with the training and permission to use!

El Weirdo

vinylmesh wrote: »

Crime will never go away under the current system. There is too much money to be made by criminals. This fuels violent crime and a crime culture is developed that trickles down through society.

In 20 minutes time someone will make a post shockingly simmilar to your own.

FYP

Moriarty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

14th lowest homicide rate in the world.

If you think crime is out of control here, you need to familiarise yourself with what goes on in the rest of the world.

thecornerboy

Won't somebody please think of the children?

Hysterical Liveline statements are stupid.

dsmythy

So how do you propose stopping me from taking a knife out of my kitchen and stabbing the first person i meet?

K-9

So then, a guard in every house on a Saturday night then!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Biggins wrote: »

The law is an ass and they know it more so.

A LOT of the present Gardi are VERY disillusioned and dis-heartened.
* They see scum in the courts every day only to be let off with lite slaps on the wrist, told "never to sin again"
* They are political fodder for the parties!
* They are moving, easy to pick on targets for those that want a quick answer to why there is so much crime! (Blame them, they mustn't be doing their job! :rolleyes: )
* They face a mountain of paper work for the smallest of things!
* Frankly the public does not help them as much as they could - and they could! For crying out loud - at least use the confidential number sometimes people!
* Their training, their funding, their tools and equipment has been cut.

If they have lost control as you say completely, I personally don't lay the blame first at their doorstep.
Any workman is only as good as the tools he/she has within reach to use and with the training and permission to use!

Sometimes you make me think I posted, then I look at your name :P

Sure there are some guards that are scum, you get that with every job, in every country.

Moriarty wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

14th lowest homicide rate in the world.

If you think crime is out of control here, you need to familiarise yourself with what goes on in the rest of the world.

Check out LA, Rio, Jamaica, columbia, south africa... Something tells me the OP doesn't have a clue. Sheltered life? I think so.

Mr Jinx

Ariyah Angry Wintergreen wrote: »

Sometimes you make me think I posted, then I look at your name :P

Sure there are some guards that are scum, you get that with every job, in every country.



Check out LA, Rio, Jamaica, columbia, south africa... Something tells me the OP doesn't have a clue. Sheltered life? I think so.

I'm fairly sure thats not what he was getting at !

CrazyRabbit

Oh for crying out loud stop blaming the Gardai for crime and point the finger in the right direction....parents.

I was raised correctly by my parents and I know the difference between right and wrong. I am self-disciplined and never allow myself to lose control due to alcohol or peer pressure. And I don't use drugs either. For these reasons, I don't go around stealing, murdering, raping etc.

One of the biggest problems in the world is that someone forgot to write a manual on raising kids correctly and force all parents to read/learn it and then take an exam on it.

There are more laws to protect society from bad drivers than from bad parents...and look at the poor quality of the drivers on the road!!! Scary :eek:

Mailman

When the Gardai catch them the criminals are not punished.
The Judges give lenient sentences. The defence solicitors/barristers inflict humiliation upon the witnesses who take the time to go to court.
The Government paid €30M to the brother in law of an FF TD for a Prison in North County Dublin that looks like it is never going to get built.

The Gardai are generally doing their job well.

weldoninhio

There is no disputing that the Gardai have a tough job, but having travelled extensively I can honestly say that Ireland is the only place i have seen the police sit in their car and watch 2 guys beat lumps out of each other, only getting out to deal with it when the guys are all punched out.

El Weirdo

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I was raised correctly by my parents and I know the difference between right and wrong. I am self-disciplined and never allow myself to lose control due to alcohol or peer pressure. And I don't use drugs either. For these reasons, I don't go around stealing, murdering, raping etc.

I can assure you that there are plenty of people who use drugs that don't go around stealing, murdering and raping.

Edit: Did someone edit this post to remove the "don't" that I am sure that I originally typed?!?

Wertz

dsmythy wrote: »

So how do you propose stopping me from taking a knife out of my kitchen and stabbing the first person i meet?

Shooting you on your way into the kitchen.

Biggins

weldoninhio wrote: »

There is no disputing that the Gardai have a tough job, but having travelled extensively I can honestly say that Ireland is the only place i have seen the police sit in their car and watch 2 guys beat lumps out of each other, only getting out to deal with it when the guys are all punched out.

If two thickos are that highly strung, they are going to damage something. Better it be themselves than Gardi to be honest. If the Gardi were attacked, due to their sudden inability to perform normal duties for the day (due to subsequent injury), a further strain is put on others on the same duty shift and even more delays are inevitable. Never mind maybe further lives put at risk...
Maybe the Gardi were also waiting for the "burnout" point too? They have to judge each situation as they occur.
(Some do be REALLY hyped up on drugs)

Even IF Gardi were seen sitting around watching a fight, I've seen many a time far more so where the Gardi have gone into places and up against faces that even a brave person might shudder too.
Its all too easy to tar all with the same brush, not by you by the way but by some in general.
We never hear about the vast majority of the brave times daily Gardi face hard situations, be it fights, walking in and facing/finding suicides in baths, deaths of children at accidents, etc.

Please try and take it easier on the gardi - you might feel justified but they are really up against it in so, so many ways that the public will never, ever know.

major bill

blaming the parents is the easiet cop out ever. i know of lads that come from decent backgrounds yet still went off the rails.

its hard to point the finger at where the problems lays, i blame money to be honest. we got too rich of a country too fast and people changed.

laoisforliam

We need to take time to re tool our people and concentrae on high end poh lease work.

El Weirdo

major bill wrote: »

blaming the parents is the easiet cop out ever. i know of lads that come from decent backgrounds yet still went off the rails.

its hard to point the finger at where the problems lays, i blame money to be honest. we got too rich of a country too fast and people changed.

What are we blaming money for now? People have got to stop reading the Mail/Sunday World/Sun/Star and listening to Liveline without questioning what they're reading/hearing.

Sensationalist drivel to say the very least. If all you are reading about is this perceived lawlessness, then you start to believe that it is true.

drive3331

Moriarty wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

14th lowest homicide rate in the world.

If you think crime is out of control here, you need to familiarise yourself with what goes on in the rest of the world.

Those crime rates for Ireland are based on 2004 data and published in a 2006 UN report
http://www.unodc.org/pdf/research/9th_survey/CTS9ByIndicatorExtract.pdf

The CSO lists more current data (to 2008) for offences committed in the state,
http://www.cso.ie/statistics/CrimeandJustice.htm

dsmythy

major bill wrote: »

blaming the parents is the easiet cop out ever. i know of lads that come from decent backgrounds yet still went off the rails.

Yeah but who do you think has a better chance of ending up on the bad side of things? Person with good parents or one with bad/no parents?

TheZohanS

major bill wrote: »

blaming the parents is the easiet cop out ever. i know of lads that come from decent backgrounds yet still went off the rails.

its hard to point the finger at where the problems lays, i blame money to be honest. we got too rich of a country too fast and people changed.

You can have decent people that are sh!t parents.

weldoninhio

I think that their training, and in particular their communication/people skills needs to be massively overhauled. I was unfortunate enough to get a completly unprovoked headbutt in a club a few years ago. I was in the wrong place/wrong time. It was early enough, so i hadn't had too much to drink. The bouncers and staff were sound. Got me tissues and ice for my nose, made sure i was OK etc.

There was a police car across the road so i went over to explain what had happened and report it and i was told "there is nothing we can do about it", i pointed out the lad who had done it and said that the bouncers etc had witnessed it, as had about 10-15 others and i was told to "get away from the car or we'll arrest you for being drunk, and if we've to bring you to the station and you bleed on the back seat you'll also be charged with damage to police property"

I went to the police station the next day to report the assult, gave them the guys address, the names and phone numbers of various witnesses, a different cop took my statement, told me they would investigate it and be in touch, that was about 10 years ago, still waiting for them to get back to me.

Witcher

weldoninhio wrote: »

I think that their training, and in particular their communication/people skills needs to be massively overhauled. I was unfortunate enough to get a completly unprovoked headbutt in a club a few years ago. I was in the wrong place/wrong time. It was early enough, so i hadn't had too much to drink. The bouncers and staff were sound. Got me tissues and ice for my nose, made sure i was OK etc.

There was a police car across the road so i went over to explain what had happened and report it and i was told "there is nothing we can do about it", i pointed out the lad who had done it and said that the bouncers etc had witnessed it, as had about 10-15 others and i was told to "get away from the car or we'll arrest you for being drunk, and if we've to bring you to the station and you bleed on the back seat you'll also be charged with damage to police property"

I went to the police station the next day to report the assult, gave them the guys address, the names and phone numbers of various witnesses, a different cop took my statement, told me they would investigate it and be in touch, that was about 10 years ago, still waiting for them to get back to me.

Lesson to be learned here:

Don't get headbutted:pac:

CCCP^

I'm exactly a big fan of the Gardai, but when the **** goes down, who ya gonna call?

Biggins

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'm exactly a big fan of the Gardai, but when the **** goes down, who ya gonna call?

LOL I await the obvious Ah answer ...come on someone say it.
You know you want too... :pac:

El Weirdo

CCCP^ wrote: »

I'm exactly a big fan of the Gardai, but when the **** goes down, who ya gonna call?

I know I shouldn't but I just can't resist...

Ghostbusters?

Armin_Tamzarian

The city isn't what it used to be.
It all happened so fast. Everything went to crap.
It's like... everyone's sense of morals just... disappeared.
Bad economy made things worse.
The jobs started drying up. Then the stores had to shut down.
Then a fat man became Taoiseach. He was supposed to change things.
He didn't.
As more and more people turned to crime and violence the town becomes gripped in fear.
Dark times. The city needs protection.
There is an animal that lives by night, searches the trashcans and cleans out the garbage.
To clean out the trashcan of society he has chosen to become more than a man.
He's the hero this town needs.
He is... The Citizen

Biggins

el_weirdo wrote: »

I know I shouldn't but I just can't resist...

Ghostbusters?

LOL Give the man a cookie LOL

leitrim lad

i got banned from the politics section for this topic, but i know have grounds to appeal that ban, as im not the only one who thinks that the 14,000 overpaid underworked attitude problems who call themselves gardai, in this state, havent got a clue how to police the country,

no they let the criminals run a muck ,and chase the likes of me ,and i mean really harass me , to such an extent where i wont answer the phone, and am afraid to leave the house ,in fear of being threatened to be put in jail for life for a cracked indicator lense on one of my lorries,

come on people about time we all saw the light, this is a scandal that anyone should be murdered on this little island , let alone the circumstances sorrounding this incident last night, my heart is with the victims family.

Overheal

Moriarty wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

14th lowest homicide rate in the world.

If you think crime is out of control here, you need to familiarise yourself with what goes on in the rest of the world.

In fairness to the Gardai, when it was my stepmother who wound up dead, they were pretty effing crack about doing their job.

Still though - do you think Dublin might be better served by a londonesque CCTV system?

TheZohanS

leitrim lad wrote: »

and chase the likes of me ,and i mean really hartass me

Lol!

Hagar

leitrim lad wrote: »

i got banned from the politics section for this topic, but i know have grounds to appeal that ban, as im not the only one who thinks that the 14,000 overpaid underworked attitude problems who call themselves gardai, in this state, havent got a clue how to police the country,

Using one forum to discuss bans in another is not permitted.
Take any grieviences you have to PM or Help Desk.

Creamy Goodness

this is the worst news i've gotten.

to be woken up by my brother in boston without meeting him yet to give me this news was ****ing horrendous.

the victim was my best buddy, i was talking to him last night on msn at half ten boston time, and he abruptly went offline.

RIP dude, you will be sorely ****ing missed...

Neil.

leitrim lad

Hagar wrote: »

Using one forum to discuss bans in another is not permitted.
Take any grieviences you have to PM or Help Desk.

yes hagar,

i was using it as an example ,not deliberatly trying to break the rules

leitrim lad

Overheal wrote: »

In fairness to the Gardai, when it was my stepmother who wound up dead, they were pretty effing crack about doing their job.

Still though - do you think Dublin might be better served by a londonesque CCTV system?

the irish policing system could do it self proud to take a few leaves out of the uk policing system,

and come on ,people being murdered in mayo, who ever heard the likes of it before, next they will be dealing crack in leitrim, and importing nuclear missilles in trough the docks in sligo,

and of course it will be a case of you rub my back and you can bring in what ever you like

ScumLord

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I was raised correctly by my parents and I know the difference between right and wrong. I am self-disciplined and never allow myself to lose control due to alcohol or peer pressure. And I don't use drugs either. For these reasons, I don't go around stealing, murdering, raping etc.

Like it's already been said most drug users don't do any of those things, I've never robbed, raped or murdered anybody in my 10 years of drug use.

Blaming drugs is just naive.

weldoninhio wrote: »

I think that their training, and in particular their communication/people skills needs to be massively overhauled. I was unfortunate enough to get a completly unprovoked headbutt in a club a few years ago. I was in the wrong place/wrong time. It was early enough, so i hadn't had too much to drink. The bouncers and staff were sound. Got me tissues and ice for my nose, made sure i was OK etc.

There was a police car across the road so i went over to explain what had happened and report it and i was told "there is nothing we can do about it", i pointed out the lad who had done it and said that the bouncers etc had witnessed it, as had about 10-15 others and i was told to "get away from the car or we'll arrest you for being drunk, and if we've to bring you to the station and you bleed on the back seat you'll also be charged with damage to police property"

I went to the police station the next day to report the assult, gave them the guys address, the names and phone numbers of various witnesses, a different cop took my statement, told me they would investigate it and be in touch, that was about 10 years ago, still waiting for them to get back to me.

I experienced something similar, we found a guy trying to jump in the river one night, we stayed with him and rang the guards who where completely indifferent to someone trying to kill themselves, it wan't their problem basically.

I don't blame the guards to be honest, it's the people of Ireland that have let their community descend into the current situation. As long as we avoid our neighbours and and do nothing but gossip about what they might be up to this will continue and escalate.

Hagar

Sorry to hear that Creamy, my condolences.

leitrim lad

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

this is the worst news i've gotten.

to be woken up by my brother in boston without meeting him yet to give me this news was ****ing horrendous.

the victim was my best buddy, i was talking to him last night on msn at half ten boston time, and he abruptly went offline.

RIP dude, you will be sorely ****ing missed...

Neil.

very sorry for your troubles

irish_bob

dsmythy wrote: »

So how do you propose stopping me from taking a knife out of my kitchen and stabbing the first person i meet?

educate you to the fact that you face a 25 year sentence without paroll for doing so

irish_bob

major bill wrote: »

blaming the parents is the easiet cop out ever. i know of lads that come from decent backgrounds yet still went off the rails.

its hard to point the finger at where the problems lays, i blame money to be honest. we got too rich of a country too fast and people changed.

thats right , its societys fault that some people are mindless thugs , personal responsibility is the ultimate dirty word of the left

irish_bob

leitrim lad wrote: »

i got banned from the politics section for this topic, but i know have grounds to appeal that ban, as im not the only one who thinks that the 14,000 overpaid underworked attitude problems who call themselves gardai, in this state, havent got a clue how to police the country,

no they let the criminals run a muck ,and chase the likes of me ,and i mean really harass me , to such an extent where i wont answer the phone, and am afraid to leave the house ,in fear of being threatened to be put in jail for life for a cracked indicator lense on one of my lorries,

come on people about time we all saw the light, this is a scandal that anyone should be murdered on this little island , let alone the circumstances sorrounding this incident last night, my heart is with the victims family.

i agree that they are definatley over paid and most of them do feck all , unless you are stationed in a rough area , a guard is a doss for the most part and thats the way most of them like it

Wertz

irish_bob wrote: »

educate you to the fact that you face a 25 year sentence without paroll for doing so

But that, in reality, he'll be out in 2...that's if he's sentenced at all.

The cops are getting a lot of stick here, but if I was in the force and saw most of my hard work done arresting and bringing someone to court only to have a solicitor/barrister/judge who are all getting far higher salaries than me getting the same people back out onto the street, then I'd be getting more disillusioned by the day. I'd certainly be thinking twice about putting myself in the way of some c*nt with a knife or a syringe, or maybe a firearm...

That's not to say that there aren't bad apples in AGS that shy away from hard work, take the low hanging fruit to make up the numbers and generally act like dicks to people who don't deserve it.

We also face a severe shortage of prison spaces and staff to man them...something that judges and lawyers can't take the blame for either...

Agree with all the points re; community spirit and proper parenting...but those kinds of input take years to have results...in the wake of their breakdown, it's very difficult to re-instill them, especially in poorer areas...

Overheal

Another example. In this thread, guys car gets destroyed, calls the cops, cops never show. GRR!!!!!


Only that the guards never showed because they were too busy booking the arrest of the very bastard that smashed up the OPs car.

leitrim lad

Overheal wrote: »

Another example. In this thread, guys car gets destroyed, calls the cops, cops never show. GRR!!!!!


Only that the guards never showed because they were too busy booking the arrest of the very bastard that smashed up the OPs car.

i would say thats a once in a life time arrest, i know of a yard that was broken into and over 100ks worth of damage between theft and robbery, they came out 2 weeks later to examine it and said it would be hard to prove who did it, never bothered taking prints, and still havent arrested the culprit, 6 months on, the owner of the yard is at his wits end about it ,as the3 whole thing was caught on cctv, and the gardai have a copy of the tape,
they told him to take the lock off his gate and atleast next time he will still have a lock and gates,

what a pack of usless,usless, wasters,

karlog

The rise in crime should prompt the justice system to examine its policies for convicting criminal's.

We should adopt some of the American law's. For e.g the "three strikes and you're out law" which charges you with a mandatory life sentence for conviction on three petty crimes. By petty i mean assault, burglary etc. Or something like two violent assaults causing serious bodily harm should be punished with sentences ranging from lets say 7 to 20 years, with no more than 15% sentence reduction for good behaviour.

Criminal's thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding - As is quoted in Batman begins:D. Which makes me think, whats wrong with vigilantism if our sentencing is too lenient on criminals?

anonymous_joe

karlog wrote: »

The rise in crime should prompt the justice system to examine its policies for convicting criminal's.

We should adopt some of the American law's. For e.g the "three strikes and you're out law" which charges you with a mandatory life sentence for conviction on three petty crimes. By petty i mean assault, burglary etc. Or something like two violent assaults causing serious bodily harm should be punished with sentences ranging from lets say 7 to 20 years, with no more than 15% sentence reduction for good behaviour.

Criminal's thrive on the indulgence of society's understanding - As is quoted in Batman begins:D. Which makes me think, whats wrong with vigilantism if our sentencing is too lenient on criminals?

We should adopt the American system because it's so much safer than Ireland...?

The guy was a friend of one of my mate's, and this is a tragedy, and not some stick to beat the guards with, or parents, or society in general.