Has BMW's plan backfired?

VolvoMan · 13-08-2009 7:06pm #1

The thought just crossed my mind there recently. With top class dealers such as Maxwell Motors, Capital Cars and Barry Motors ditched and replaced even in some cases with other dealers who have gone to wall in that time since (Tom Hogan Motors), has this plan not backfired on BMW a bit?

To back up my theory I have been seeing less and less new BMW's on the road these days compared to Audi's and Merc's. I have been seeing a lot more C Class' and A4's than I have 3 Series and I'm starting to wonder is this as a result of BMW's poorly judged plan?

mickdw · 13-08-2009 7:17pm

I dont think the current 3 series is a nice car whereas all models before it were pretty much the business. Current coupe looks good but not the saloon. A nicely speced C class or A4 looks better imo.
I dont know about dealers having anything to do it with, I dont even know what the sales figures are like but surely BMW still have a very broad base of dealers here.

Owen · 13-08-2009 7:28pm

It would help if you explained what the plan is supposed to be.

RedorDead · 13-08-2009 7:39pm

Im not sure the sterling collection strategy has worked for them here either. Seems to have backfired judging by the sales figures.

VolvoMan · 13-08-2009 7:41pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

It would help if you explained what the plan is supposed to be.

I presumed everyone on here would know what I mean. The plan was to overhaul their dealer network and force dealers who already had quite modern showrooms to demolish them for bigger ones.

DublinWriter · 13-08-2009 7:44pm

RedorDead wrote: »

Im not sure the sterling collection strategy has worked for them here either. Seems to have backfired judging by the sales figures.

Too little too late.

I don't like the way they're constantly cutting back on the cockpit design, car markers tend to constantly trim away features year on year to recoupe costs (Honda is especially guilty of doing that).

The 'generic' linear dash of the 3-series post 2004 has been a flop IMHO, and seems to have been a feature to make it easier to create a standard dash for right and left hand drives.

DublinWriter · 13-08-2009 7:45pm

Too little too late.

I don't like the way they're constantly cutting back on the cockpit design, car markers tend to constantly trim away features year on year to recoupe costs (Honda is especially guilty of doing that).

The 'generic' linear dash of the 3-series post 2004 has been a flop IMHO, and seems to have been a feature to make it easier to create a standard dash for right and left hand drives.

Having said that, they do plow a lot into R&D, especially with diesel.

Owen · 13-08-2009 8:38pm

VolvoMan wrote: »

I presumed everyone on here would know what I mean. The plan was to overhaul their dealer network and force dealers who already had quite modern showrooms to demolish them for bigger ones.

Have you a source for that?

VolvoMan · 13-08-2009 9:12pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Have you a source for that?

Ah now we're getting a bit ridiculous here, aren't we?

mickdw · 13-08-2009 9:34pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Have you a source for that?

It is quite well known that they did impose strict conditions on dealers re standard of showroom etc. Then again, most manufacturers did the same. One case that certainly backfired for BMW was the galway dealers where they took dealership from barry to give it to Tom Hogan.
Hogan then operated the BMW franchise from a portacabin I would think due to the onset of the recession & non availability of funding. They have since gone bust completely

copacetic · 13-08-2009 9:38pm

VolvoMan wrote: »

Ah now we're getting a bit ridiculous here, aren't we?

not really, you seem to think that this vague 'plan' that bmw had was different from audi and merc.

Then you imagine seeing a few more cars of one brand on the the road and then you think it means something.

Personally around Dublin I see way more newer BMWs than Mercs and about the same as audi, the audis are generally the new model A4. You also seem to have ignored the fact that audi and merc recently just launched brand new models, while BMW is toward the end of the cycle on both the 3 and 5 series.

So all in all a pretty ludicrous thread.

galwaytt · 13-08-2009 9:46pm

mickdw wrote: »

..... but surely BMW still have a very broad base of dealers here.

nope, not anymore. If you want a BeeEmm in the West now, you have to travel North, South or East - not a good idea. Who'd travel 100 miles to service a car, etc?

It can only play into everyone else's hands...VAG in particular.

Oh, and ugly cars ain't helping.........

Owen · 13-08-2009 10:00pm

There's a mountain of assumption, and heresay on this thread, that's why I'm questioning it. BMW don't impose showroom sizes, just fit out and display equipment, workshop equipment and regular staff training. As long as it fits into the corporate identity, and has the latest training and equipment, it can display 6 or 60 cars.

The dealerships whos contracts weren't renewed (They didn't loose the contracts) did so because of other reasons.

gears · 13-08-2009 10:06pm

mickdw wrote: »

It is quite well known that they did impose strict conditions on dealers re standard of showroom etc. Then again, most manufacturers did the same. One case that certainly backfired for BMW was the galway dealers where they took dealership from barry to give it to Tom Hogan.
Hogan then operated the BMW franchise from a portacabin I would think due to the onset of the recession & non availability of funding. They have since gone bust completely

Going slightly off topic here but was the demise of Tom Hogans not due to the groups property deals and not the lack of car sales...

Traumadoc · 13-08-2009 10:07pm

Are not mercs a lot cheaper now compared to BMWs?

I had a merc but moved to BMW because the product and service was far superior.

Tipsy Mac · 13-08-2009 10:11pm

I think the current 5 Series is more popular than any previous 5 Series BMW ever had on Irish roads, the 3 Series though looks dire and sales back this up.

galwaytt · 13-08-2009 10:15pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

There's a mountain of assumption, and heresay on this thread, that's why I'm questioning it. BMW don't impose showroom sizes, just fit out and display equipment, workshop equipment and regular staff training. As long as it fits into the corporate identity, and has the latest training and equipment, it can display 6 or 60 cars.

The dealerships whos contracts weren't renewed (They didn't loose the contracts) did so because of other reasons.

Not entirely true. The current style of BeeEmm dealership was dictated by the importer's a few years ago - if you didn't pony up and join the party, BeeEmm wouldn't renew your franchise.

Ditto for VAG.

Whilst not exactly a factor in Hogan's demise, it just goes to show the dictat of importers when Hogan's HAD to buy a new, separate premise next door to their (already glamorous one), when they took on the agency after Barry's gave it up. That is just daft.

Owen · 13-08-2009 10:20pm

galwaytt wrote: »

Not entirely true. The current style of BeeEmm dealership was dictated by the importer's a few years ago - if you didn't pony up and join the party, BeeEmm wouldn't renew your franchise.

I'm hardly making it up ... I did work in 2 franchises for the last 7 years.

-Chris- · 13-08-2009 10:51pm

RedorDead wrote: »

Im not sure the sterling collection strategy has worked for them here either. Seems to have backfired judging by the sales figures.

I'd be of the opinion that the Sterling Collection will have done more long-term damage than short-term good.

I'd say the Sterling Collection has given sales figures and turnover to dealers that they wouldn't have seen otherwise - it may be the help they need to get them through this tough patch.

Long term though, it's made ****e of the campaign that said "buying Irish is better than risking the pig-in-a-poke" that could be your next UK import. I'd say it's also done damage to BMW second-hand values.

stevenmu · 13-08-2009 10:51pm

Personally I'm not sure how much of an impact the dealer network has on sales, I'd suspect most people would decide what car they want and then find a dealer to sell it.

When I was growing up, 80s early 90s, BMW was a prestige brand. Pretty much any BMW had an aura about it, it was always something special. Since then though the rest of the pack have caught up, and BMW haven't really done anything to stay ahead. You can now buy a Ford, a VW, a Renault, a Citroen, a Volvo, or any one of countless others, that's every bit as nice, if not better than a lower end BMW.

For a while they were able to trade off their name and brand and lots of people rushed out and bought a 316/318 etc and they became common as muck. And I think people have now realised that you can buy a very nice mondeo for the same price as a 318 and they're so common that the name isn't really worth that much any more.

The mid and upper range BMs are still fantastic premium cars, but the lower end aren't anything special compared to the rest, instead of them being a cut above the rest. I'd freaking love to be able to afford an M3, but I can't. I could afford a 316/318, but I can't be ars*d.

In contrast, Mercedes has done a pretty good job of keeping their name as a premium brand, and Audi have probably increased theirs, although Jeremy Clarkson called it right, Mr BMW-man has now become Mr Audi man.

NewApproach · 13-08-2009 10:51pm

What the Sterling Collection says for me is one of two thigs:

a) We've been robbing you blind for years so no were going to reduce our prices just a little bit because we've taken all your money already and you've none left, or,

Yes, Englih cars are cheaper, better specced and better maintained, so we'll just buy those for you and slap a €2k premium on top.

whether the public have bought it or not I dont know

VolvoMan · 13-08-2009 10:55pm

copacetic wrote: »

not really, you seem to think that this vague 'plan' that bmw had was different from audi and merc.

Well there certainly is a lot less arrogance from those brands on imposing conditions and restrictions for their showrooms.

Then you imagine seeing a few more cars of one brand on the the road and then you think it means something.

I think it does, because BMW lost dealers like Maxwell Motors, who up until their demise were among the biggest sellers of the brand in the country. They now have a big void in dealer representation around South Dublin, especially in more affluent areas such as that of where Maxwell's were located.

You also seem to have ignored the fact that audi and merc recently just launched brand new models, while BMW is toward the end of the cycle on both the 3 and 5 series.

I accept that point and did just think of it myself after I started the thread. But still, weren't the E39 and E46 strong sellers right up until their demise?

The E90 by the way still has a good few years left in production and is still considered by most to be the best in the class, certainly better than the A4 at least.

So all in all a pretty ludicrous thread.

Well I'm sorry it didn't live up to your standards but I wouldn't go that far.

galwaytt · 13-08-2009 11:09pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

I'm hardly making it up ... I did work in 2 franchises for the last 7 years.

I did say 'not entirely'........and I'm not making up the Hogan's bit, either. Especially when I see the sign-guys stripping all the BeeEmm stuff off the building, for fear it would end up on eBay and 'dilute the brand'.......

...which would explain where I got my Very Large Sign..........BeeEmm dealer went to wall in the UK and the enterprising Sign Guy.......put it on eBay himself !!

Owen · 13-08-2009 11:15pm

Where'd you think I got all the large full colour MINI banners in my garage

pburns · 14-08-2009 8:01am

There is a delicous irony about Clarkson's claim that all the 'cocks' moved from BMW to Audi (mainly because so many cocks now watch TG!)

I think PaintDoctor seems a little over-defensive. Of the dealers i know the less flashy (but acceptable) showroom got the boot whilst guys like Conlons in Rathangan with a showcase showroom held the franchise.
I hate that kind of superfical marketing-led crap!

It's the same right across the industry though, the manufacturers or importers wanted every mom-and-pop dealership to resemble the McLaren Technology centre...

E39MSport · 14-08-2009 8:06am

pburns wrote: »

I hate that kind of superfical marketing-led crap!

^ +1 It's forking everywhere though (off topic). Tiny cogs in the massive machine and all that ......

mick.fr · 14-08-2009 8:10am

mickdw wrote: »

I dont think the current 3 series is a nice car whereas all models before it were pretty much the business. Current coupe looks good but not the saloon. A nicely speced C class or A4 looks better imo.
I dont know about dealers having anything to do it with, I dont even know what the sales figures are like but surely BMW still have a very broad base of dealers here.

I am a BMW addict, freak, owner, but yeah the e90 sucks big time.
Those tailights are so g@y. Interior is an insult.

Some newer models seriously are from out of there. Maybe the Asian will like them.

New Audi and Mercedes are way much better looking. Especially in white.

Anyway this is more a design issue rather than BMW Ireland deciding to get some dealerships closed down the last year or unfortunate ones who had to close because of 80+% business drop.

I suspect BMW will eventually learn from their mistakes and get things better in a few years, design wise.

E39MSport · 14-08-2009 8:13am

mick.fr wrote: »

Some newer models seriously are from out of there. Maybe the Asian will like them.

WTF ??

kmick · 14-08-2009 8:17am

My local BMW/Toyota/Lexus dealer in Rathgar said that BMW told them if the Toyotas and Lexus brends were not removed from the forecourt they would lose their franchise. Every Monday morning they were rolling off 3 and 5 series but now its all nearly new Avensis, Mondeo, SUV's and Yaris. They got the same pressure from Lexus and dumped their brand as well.

mick.fr · 14-08-2009 8:24am

E39MSport wrote: »

WTF ??

stevenmu · 14-08-2009 8:33am

mick.fr wrote: »

GT = Golfbag Transporter ?

:pac:

E39MSport · 14-08-2009 8:34am

What's 'The Asian'?

mick.fr · 14-08-2009 8:37am

E39MSport wrote: »

What's 'The Asian'?

Come on mate...

I meant that some of the new cars are so horrible, that maybe the Asian might actually like them, because the design is so special. I could have said Indian too, whatever, I just meant there is little chance this model shown here for example, is gonna sell big time in Europe.

Just my 2 cents

mick.fr · 14-08-2009 8:39am

stevenmu wrote: »

GT = Golfbag Transporter ?

:pac:

I think it means Group Therapy

That is what the design team needs seriously.

Owen · 14-08-2009 9:04am

I'm not being defensive, I am stating the facts, which as I was the only person on this thread to work with BMW, I know. I don't work with BMW anymore, so I don't have a reason to be defensive ... but the usual story with these threads is heresay gets repeated, and then digested into fact. There are many incorrect statements on this thread, all I was trying to do is identify the misnomers, and correct them.

Anan1 · 14-08-2009 10:27am

mick.fr wrote: »

Those tailights are so g@y. Interior is an insult.

Some newer models seriously are from out of there. Maybe the Asian will like them.

There's a strong smell of both racism and homophobia off this post - neither are welcome here.

maidhc · 14-08-2009 11:39am

Zube wrote: »

I don't think it's racist to say that Asian and Middle Eastern customers like to see bold new designs, and care less about tradition and continuity than European buyers.

It is probably incorrect though. Asians are generally far more conservative when it comes to cars. I believe a certain Mr. Toyoda said something along those lines in the past few days.

reverandkenjami · 14-08-2009 12:22pm

kmick wrote: »

My local BMW/Toyota/Lexus dealer in Rathgar said that BMW told them if the Toyotas and Lexus brends were not removed from the forecourt they would lose their franchise.

I find that very hard to believe seeing as they're not a BMW dealer!! :pac:

-Chris- · 14-08-2009 12:25pm

reverandkenjami wrote: »

I find that very hard to believe seeing as they're not a BMW dealer!! :pac:

*ahem*

http://www.murphygunn.ie/contentv3/

Idbatterim · 14-08-2009 12:31pm

the current 3 and 5 series are a step backwards when it comes to looks, thats for sure. I think Audi and Mercedes have definately improved their offering. I drive a bmw as much for the looks, badge and comfort. But nowadays, at the prices they are charging, i dont think its acceptable to just have the looks, or the badge etc, with the competition out there, they have to offer everything!

VolvoMan · 14-08-2009 12:52pm

-Chris- wrote: »

*ahem*

http://www.murphygunn.ie/contentv3/

I think what he means is that Murphy & Gunn Rathgar are not a BMW dealer, not Milltown.;)

-Chris- · 14-08-2009 12:53pm

I know, I'm just giving him a hard time

VolvoMan · 14-08-2009 1:07pm

-Chris- wrote: »

I know, I'm just giving him a hard time

Now Chris, you as a mod should know better...

-Chris- · 14-08-2009 1:11pm

This isn't business, it's personal...

Anyhoo - back on topic!

mickdw · 14-08-2009 1:22pm

galwaytt wrote: »

nope, not anymore. If you want a BeeEmm in the West now, you have to travel North, South or East - not a good idea. Who'd travel 100 miles to service a car, etc?

It can only play into everyone else's hands...VAG in particular.

Oh, and ugly cars ain't helping.........

Nobody would travel that far to service the car but to buy a new BMW, yes they will. Surely there are authorised service centres still in Galway. The old dealer must be an official authorised service centre still surely. Im in Mayo and the nearest BMW dealer to me has always been Martin reilly in Sligo. Thats still there and is very much in the west. Fair enough its not galway city but Im sure BMW are on the case re getting a sales outlet back into Galway.

VolvoMan · 14-08-2009 3:37pm

mickdw wrote: »

Nobody would travel that far to service the car but to buy a new BMW, yes they will. Surely there are authorised service centres still in Galway. The old dealer must be an official authorised service centre still surely. Im in Mayo and the nearest BMW dealer to me has always been Martin reilly in Sligo. Thats still there and is very much in the west. Fair enough its not galway city but Im sure BMW are on the case re getting a sales outlet back into Galway.

Apparently Barry Motors still hold the service franchise but it was still a big mistake not renewing their sales contract. I've heard that they were among the best BMW dealers in Ireland.

galwaytt · 14-08-2009 9:17pm

mickdw wrote: »

..... but Im sure BMW are on the case re getting a sales outlet back into Galway.

...ha! I bet that's what they thought when they appointed Hogan's !!

I wonder who did the 'diligence' on that deal.........??

ninty9er · 15-08-2009 2:07pm

mickdw wrote: »

They have since gone bust completely

Complete hearsay. The company is in voluntary liquidation. There might even be a decent payoff for the Hogans once everything is liquidated.

PaintDoctor wrote: »

The dealerships whos contracts weren't renewed (They didn't loose the contracts) did so because of other reasons.

This is sound logic, but tell someone who's contract "wasn't renewed" that as they weren't "made redundant" they won't be eligible for the dole!

kmick wrote: »

My local BMW/Toyota/Lexus dealer in Rathgar said that BMW told them if the Toyotas and Lexus brends were not removed from the forecourt they would lose their franchise. Every Monday morning they were rolling off 3 and 5 series but now its all nearly new Avensis, Mondeo, SUV's and Yaris. They got the same pressure from Lexus and dumped their brand as well.

I find that very hard to believe since Toyota Ireland owns Lexus Ireland.

galwaytt wrote: »

...ha! I bet that's what they thought when they appointed Hogan's !! I wonder who did the 'diligence' on that deal.........??

See my response to point 1.

Unregistered. · 15-08-2009 2:18pm

PaintDoctor wrote: »

Have you a source for that?

@Volvo-Man: +1 for a source. It would be nice if you could include that in your orignal post please.

VolvoMan · 15-08-2009 2:30pm

Unregistered. wrote: »

@Volvo-Man: +1 for a source. It would be nice if you could include that in your orignal post please.

:rolleyes:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/bumpy-ride-for-irish-garages-in-bmw-review-1213437.html

Unregistered. · 15-08-2009 7:57pm

'preciate eh

Has BMW's plan backfired?

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