women's boxing 2012

duagre

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/olympic_games/8196879.stm

eigrod

If Katie Taylor can remain at the top of her game until then then Ireland can chalk down 1 gold anyway.

cowzerp

she'll be even better by then, great its confirmed..
will be a big boost to amateur boxing, although im personally not a big fan of ladies boxing i think they shouls have the choice just like we do..

adamski8

i love amir's quote
"Deep down I think women shouldn't fight. That's my opinion. "When you get hit it's very painful. Women can get knocked out."

really amir?? has anyone told the women boxers this?:pac:

cowzerp

adamski8 wrote: »

i love amir's quote
"Deep down I think women shouldn't fight. That's my opinion. "When you get hit it's very painful. Women can get knocked out."

really amir?? has anyone told the women boxers this?:pac:

better yet, has anyone told Amir that yet!

Vintagekits

cowzerp wrote: »

better yet, has anyone told Amir that yet!

thats what I was thinkin. Anyway - I am no fan of womens boxing, there is even LESS skill in that then UFC (ducks) - but watching Katie has definately softened my attitude towards in.

cowzerp

Vintagekits wrote: »

thats what I was thinkin. Anyway - I am no fan of womens boxing, there is even LESS skill in that then UFC (ducks) -

You've just offended MMA fans, fighters and women boxers and women in general in 1 sentence-MMA is not boxing so if you look at it looking for boxing your going to be dissapointed, anyway keep on topic, Congrats Katie..

walshb

Anyone with half a brain could see that Taylor is something seriously special.

Anyway, three years is a long time to maintain brilliance and bear in mind that
she has been on TOP now for 4-5 years. So, it will be 8-9 years that Taylor
will have been the best should she take gold.

There will be new threats and opponents and she must stay ultra
focused and just hope that by 2012 that somewhere on the planet, another great
doesn't come by and upstage her.

If the games were today, she wins gold. The games are three years away, it's not as
easy to make that prediction taking this into account

BTW, I feel that Taylor's biggest obstacle could be the weight. There are three divisions
in the programme and the one after hers (56-60), is 69-75. That's a big gap and maybe too
much for Taylor to jump. So, she has to hold her weight for another three years.

It gets harder to hold weight as one gets older.

Heinrich

walshb wrote: »

There will be new threats and opponents and she must stay ultra
focused and just hope that by 2012 that somewhere on the planet, another great
doesn't come by and upstage her.

Very true and now that the Olympics have adopted ladies boxing the sport has become "respectable" and there will be a keener interest in it. That would suggest that there will be more competition coming along, particularly from the major countries, like the US, China etc where they certainly have better facilities and more athletes to chose from.

Dodser

Really thrilled that Katie will become an Olympian. I've watched her box. She's a true athlete. It would have been a shame if she never got to show her talent in the Olympics.

mike65

I pity her a bit, between now and summer of 2012 she is going to be hyped to the skies by the media, you can be sure RTE/Jimmy Magee is having orgasms at the thought. The nations best chance of gold on her shoulders.

walshb

Mike, I feel you are on the money here.

I just hope we don't get silly and start trying to make out
that this is a certainty. It's far from it. Katie has the potential, we all know
this, but three years is a long time and a lot can happen.

I have a feeling that if Taylor wasn't so so brilliant and known, and the Irish
weren't so vocal in their pleas for the sport to be accepted in the games, then
it wouldn't have made it. She is the most famous female amateur on the planet

The Davestator

walshb wrote: »

Mike, I feel you are on the money here.

I just hope we don't get silly and start trying to make out
that this is a certainty. It's far from it. Katie has the potential, we all know
this, but three years is a long time and a lot can happen.

I have a feeling that if Taylor wasn't so so brilliant and known, and the Irish
weren't so vocal in their pleas for the sport to be accepted in the games, then
it wouldn't have made it. She is the most famous female amateur on the planet

Totally agree. Delighted she'll have the chance, however this is also the reason I couldn't understand Kenny Egan staying on till 2012, its very hard to stay at the top for that long and if the last olympics are anything to go by, the chinese will have their boxers supped up on 'gear' and could be dangerous.

walshb

I'd be very surprised if Egan even made the Irish team, let alone actually qualify for the games.

Dodser

Have to say I think she's a really focused athlete. I don't think she's going to let the hype get to her. I think it's great that we have her in there with a shout.

cowzerp

She's young, early 20's and is very dedicated and is so good that she is not involved in major wars that take there toll on a fighter, she will be better by then and she is years ahead of everyone else so unless injuries or a freak of nature comes along she will be the heavy favourite and will carry the flag into the arena for Ireland..

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

She's young, early 20's and is very dedicated and is so good that she is not involved in major wars that take there toll on a fighter, she will be better by then and she is years ahead of everyone else so unless injuries or a freak of nature comes along she will be the heavy favourite and will carry the flag into the arena for Ireland..

Agreed Paul, but this is now where it gets tougher due to the Olympics allowing it.
There will be more athletes, greater involvement and a real emphasis from
the big countries like America and China and France and Britain. I see it being even
tougher in 2012 than now, and discernibly so. Hopefully Taylor stays focused, keeps motivated and trains harder. The talent and skill is there, is the patience and concentration for three years there? All will be told....
I am quietly confident, but refuse to get over hyped and excited.

alanceltic

Delighted for Katie, her whole life really is boxing and I wonder will she contemplate turning pro IF she wins a gold medal at the olympics as there isnt really much further to go and do if she gets it....

itouchmyself

walshb wrote: »

Agreed Paul, but this is now where it gets tougher due to the Olympics allowing it.
There will be more athletes, greater involvement and a real emphasis from
the big countries like America and China and France and Britain. I see it being even
tougher in 2012 than now, and discernibly so. Hopefully Taylor stays focused, keeps motivated and trains harder. The talent and skill is there, is the patience and concentration for three years there? All will be told....
I am quietly confident, but refuse to get over hyped and excited.

I agree with you and so much more effort will be put in now it is Olympic sport from other countrys!!!
Personally believe it wont matter as Katie so far ahead now! But wont be to loud about it just incase.... 3 years is a long time for any athlete let alone Amatuer Boxing, look at one off our Olympians now bearly lost to a Gold Medalist yet 1 year on aint even our number one...
Fair play though personally woulda went for the money long ago!

murpheile

delighted for Katie and cant wait to see her in London if she can stay on form. one of our greatest sports people. although i was reading today that this could see the end of the 48kg division in the mens. Is this bad news for Paddy Barnes or would ye expect him to move up a weight anyway?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0814/1224252552329.html

walshb

murpheile wrote: »

delighted for Katie and cant wait to see her in London if she can stay on form. one of our greatest sports people. although i was reading today that this could see the end of the 48kg division in the mens. Is this bad news for Paddy Barnes or would ye expect him to move up a weight anyway?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0814/1224252552329.html

Paddy is a tiny little guy who I feel could have stayed at 48 kgs, but now he has no option really. To stay amateur, he must move up in weight if he wants to be in London

ROCKMAN

walshb wrote: »

Anyone with half a brain could see that Taylor is something seriously special.

Anyway, three years is a long time to maintain brilliance and bear in mind that
she has been on TOP now for 4-5 years. So, it will be 8-9 years that Taylor
will have been the best should she take gold.

There will be new threats and opponents and she must stay ultra
focused and just hope that by 2012 that somewhere on the planet, another great
doesn't come by and upstage her.

If the games were today, she wins gold. The games are three years away, it's not as
easy to make that prediction taking this into account

BTW, I feel that Taylor's biggest obstacle could be the weight. There are three divisions
in the programme and the one after hers (56-60), is 69-75. That's a big gap and maybe too
much for Taylor to jump. So, she has to hold her weight for another three years.

It gets harder to hold weight as one gets older.

Fantastic post ! Although I believe Katie is something very special ,and if the Games where held this year , it would be gold all the way , she just that good and that far ahead of the pack at the moment .
However 3 years is a hell of a long time in Boxing Yes she is young but there a hell of a lot of tarmac to be run before the 2012 games .As for the weigh thing very very good point .
Best thing we can do is wish her the best , And let her and her team get on with it and lets hope the country does not start putting to much pressure on her young shoulders.

joepenguin

Good stuff. The divisions will be harder to win no doubt but Katies done all she can at world and euro champs anyway and took it to the top. I feel she can take the olympic gold also.

mooeire

There is no chance she will lose focus, her whole life has been geared towards fighting at the Olympics..

walshb

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Fantastic post ! Although I believe Katie is something very special ,and if the Games where held this year , it would be gold all the way , she just that good and that far ahead of the pack at the moment .
However 3 years is a hell of a long time in Boxing Yes she is young but there a hell of a lot of tarmac to be run before the 2012 games .As for the weigh thing very very good point .
Best thing we can do is wish her the best , And let her and her team get on with it and lets hope the country does not start putting to much pressure on her young shoulders.

Thanks.

I just hope this country doesn't do a Henman with her...

f1dan

walshb wrote: »

Thanks.

I just hope this country don't do a Henman with her...

The difference is that Henman was crap

walshb

f1dan wrote: »

The difference is that Henman was crap

Henman in fairness was world class; he just happened to be in the Sampras era.

Anyway, I see my analogy worked. Man, the pressure that guy used to be
subject to.

Let us quietly allow Katie to prepare and improve and work hard for the next
three years. Encourage and applaud, but keep it grounded...You hear me Jimmy MaGee?

T-K-O

It's fantastic new for Taylor but I am still not convinced womens boxing is strong enough for the Olympics.

3 years is a long time to prepare. She needs to forget the Olympics and concentrate on the her next bout. Im sure that will not be a problem she is a class act.

f1dan

walshb wrote: »

Henman in fairness was world class; he just happened to be in the Sampras era.

IMO he was just a tier below the likes of Sampras and the media hyped him up as being better than he was. Taylor has proven herself to be the best so some media hype may be justified.

Anyway, this is a boxing forum, not a tennis forum

walshb

f1dan wrote: »

Anyway, this is a boxing forum, not a tennis forum

You don't say:P

mjon3105

A long way to London 2012 yet but a very good start today,on the road to London , for Katie Taylor with a convincing win in the quarter finals in Nikolaev. For those who have not yet heard the news yet here is a brief extract from one of my website reports on the European Championships:

"Ireland's Katie Taylor stopped her Swedish challenger, Kosovare Buzuku in Nikolaev,Ukraine in this afternoon's quarter final of the VII European Womens boxing championships. Katie is now guaranteed a minimum of a bronze medal.

It was the Bray boxer's 61st win in 62 International contests and her 36th consecutive win in all fights.Taylor, who is aiming for her fourth European title in a row at the Nadezhda Sports Arena was 4-0 up when the Swede retired with a facial injury within a minute of the start of the contest. The 20 years old Sundsvall BC competitor had herself earned the right to meet Taylor with a good win in the first round against the Polish champion,Karolina Graczyk.

In Friday's semi finals, the reigning World, European and European champion and 2008 AIBA World Female Boxer of the Year will meet Denica Eliseeva of Bulgaria whom she beat on home soil in Pazardjik (8-1) in June, when she became European Union champion for the 2nd time.


Mike

Big Ears

Great stuff, thanks Mike.

I'd nearly be worried for Katie in a way that if such dominance keeps up she could grow complacent. I mean how do you keep yourself motivated when most(although not all) of the time you're not truly tested.

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

Great stuff, thanks Mike.

I'd nearly be worried for Katie in a way that if such dominance keeps up she could grow complacent. I mean how do you keep yourself motivated when most(although not all) of the time you're not truly tested.

Big, I am not sure exactly what you mean?

Do you think that the comp level is poor and she is meeting less than stellar opponents?

Or, do you mean that she is SO good that she hasn't been tested yet?

I think the latter is the case. She is being tested by some very good fighters, she is simply exceptional. Similar to Bolt's dominance in the sprints.

Mike, she won the semi final and is now in the final
on Sunday, beginning at 10 am Irish time

Big Ears

walshb wrote: »

Big, I am not sure exactly what you mean?

Do you think that the comp level is poor and she is meeting less than stellar opponents?

Or, do you mean that she is SO good that she hasn't been tested yet?

I think the latter is the case. She is being tested by some very good fighters, she is simply exceptional. Similar to Bolt's dominance in the sprints.

Mike, she won the semi final and is now in the final
on Sunday, beginning at 10 am Irish time

I was thinking more of the latter Waslhb, we were given a good example of decent opposition on the women's scene when she fought Caroline Barry at The new Point. However the amount of stoppages she gets early in competitions would give an indication that while there are some very good fighters in women's boxing, that it just doesn't have the depth of the men's game(which you'd expect).

triv88

Are there any links to vids of Kt knocking out her opponent in the quarter finals of european championships?

mjon3105

I seriously doubt that there will be any coverage of these Championships on TV or even on Internet at the time; perhaps someone will upload a few clips from finals on You Tube or similar later.TV+Radio Coverage of womens boxing will continue to be very limited right up to the Olympics.



Interesting quotes from Pete Taylor in the "Independent" yesterday about possible effects of media coverage as Olympics approach. This as WALSHB has said on forums of late, and I wrote about even last year is probably KT's biggest problem, more especially from the Irish media and public.



The Russians,Chinese,Indians and others are going to be even stronger come 2012 and even in Nikolaev there were 9 Ukrainians and 7 Russians" in the semi-finals.This is what Pete said when speaking to reporters from Nikolaev:




"There has always been a media interest in Katie," he said. "But since it was announced that women's boxing will be an Olympic sport it has got particularly intense, even out here in the Ukraine.
"This is the first major women's tournament since the Olympic announcement and the spotlight is firmly on Katie. She is feeling the pressure and she was a bit nervous against the Swede.
"A lot of people expect her to just show up and win gold. If only it was so simple. Katie has to fight for everything she gets and opponents all raise their game against her.
"She's the one they all want to beat and she has to maintain a high level of performance at all times."




However if anyone can succeed then Katie can thanks to the great support of her family, friends and the Irish high performance coaches. The pressure will get greater alas and any Irish fans who think she is a Gold medal cert need to seriously re-think. IF she wins the Gold in London then she will certainly deserve to be recognised as Ireland's greatest ever female sports star.

That is not something she can claim at this time despite her successes todate but remember she is not yet 23.


Remember too that there are only 3 weight classes in London hence some of those at 54/57kg now will "upgrade" and some of the 64kg so under will slim and "downgrade" so there will be huge additional competition from the 2010 World Champs onwards.


True Irish supporters will stop all this nonsensical talk of her just having to turn up and collect the Gold. She does not need that type of additional pressure. Beating the best in the world in London will be more than hard enough without such pressure.


Mind you, here in London, my British sports journalist colleagues all wish that they had a "Katie Taylor" in their squad. Watch out though for a young lady of 18 from Hartlepool named Savannah Marshall. She shows great promise for the future and is being groomed for Olympic success.And no, she won't be in the 60kg competition! Remember the name SAVANNAH MARSHALL and you read it here first...




Mike

mjon3105

Another flawless display from Katie Taylor today as she annexed her 4th successive European 60kg title in the 7th European Womens Championships held in Nikolaev, Ukraine.

The Bray boxer did not concede a point today, indeed did not concede one in the Championships, as she outboxed Turkey's Meryem Aslan Zaybek 11-0 in the final.

For Katie it was her 38th consecutive win in the ring and she is now the proud holder of the World, European and European Union championships.


Mike

triv88

mjon3105 wrote: »

The Bray boxer did not concede a point today, indeed did not concede one in the Championships

:eek: fair play

walshb

Absolute sensational display from Katie. She is Ireland's greatest EVER
sports person and only 23/24. To be so dominant for so long says it all.
RTE would want to cop on and start showing some of Katie. This is truly a world class athlete, the best of the best, and that shower cannot show even one fight from the championships?:mad:

murpheile

Congratulations to Katie, absolutely amazing again, and thanks to Mike for the reports, although I agree with Walshb about RTE, it's a shame I have to come on a forum to see how Irelands greatest sports person is getting on in the European Championships.

Running Bing

walshb wrote: »

Absolute sensational display from Katie. She is Ireland's greatest EVER
sports person and only 23/24. To be so dominant for so long says it all.
RTE would want to cop on and start showing some of Katie. This is truly a world class athlete, the best of the best, and that shower cannot show even one fight from the championships?:mad:

Thats absolute rubbish.

Tbh I dont take womens boxing very seriously as a Sport and while Katie is a great athlete and great for the country she should not be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Sonia O'Sullivan, George Best, Eamonn Coughlan, Ronnie Delaney, Sean Kelly, Stephen Roche, Barry McGuigan.

makl

fair play katie, phenomenal performance.

runningbing, think you're dangerously underrating katie. none of the people you mentioned ever represented ireland in two sports. and her unmatched success in her chosen field stands regardless of whether you rate her sport or not.

Running Bing

makl wrote: »

fair play katie, phenomenal performance.

runningbing, think you're dangerously underrating katie. none of the people you mentioned ever represented ireland in two sports. and her unmatched success in her chosen field stands regardless of whether you rate her sport or not.

That highlights my point perfectly....can you imagine Sean Kelly hoping off his bike after the Tour De France and going out to play an international football match for Ireland? Or George Best competing for the world middleweight title during the off season?

The mere notion is absurd and it highlights the gulf between the sports.

Like I said nothing against Katie, she's clearly a very gifted person and a great athlete but I dont give womens boxing or football much credence and certainly dont think an athlete who competes in those sports should be compared to the likes of Sean Kelly or Sonia O'Sullivan.

efb

Well don't compare her to Sonia, she bottled it when it mattered.
(Have I dared to question athletics sacred cow???)

makl

Running Bing wrote: »

That highlights my point perfectly....can you imagine Sean Kelly hoping off his bike after the Tour De France and going out to play an international football match for Ireland? Or George Best competing for the world middleweight title during the off season?

The mere notion is absurd and it highlights the gulf between the sports.

roy jones jr, michael jordan, jim thorpe...

walshb

Running Bing wrote: »

Thats absolute rubbish.

Tbh I don't take women's boxing very seriously as a Sport and while Katie is a great athlete and great for the country she should not be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Sonia O'Sullivan, George Best, Eamonn Coughlan, Ronnie Delaney, Sean Kelly, Stephen Roche, Barry McGuigan.

Yeah, silly me to believe that a 4 time Euro and two time world champ beaten once in 62 fights and the most
dominant female athlete in boxing for the last 5 years would ever be considered ahead of those names:rolleyes:

You can try and demean it all you like, but the stas are the proof. She is the most dominant female athlete we have ever produced, EVER. Sorry, the most dominant athlete we have ever produced. 4 Eurpoeans and two world titles and doing it against the best female fighters on the planet. She is meeting them all. Have you ever seen her perform?

George Best? Eh, and what exactly did he win? Team sport too.
Sonia? Fantastic athlete, flopped on the big stage. World Title, one
world title.

Eamon? Great runner too. Running is the most natural sport in the world. It requires speed and endurance. It's not near as complex and difficult as
Boxing.

Kelly and Roche? Again, both great but not near as dominant as Taylor in a sport dogged by drug rumors. It's cycling, not boxing and lke running, it's not near as difficult. It is close in terms of stamina and endurance, but nothing else.

Ronnie Delaney? Again, great runner...

All the names you mention are fantastic, but none can compare to the level
of continued success and dominance that Taylor has achieved.

I'm surprised you didn't lump in Padraig bloody Harington in the list

And, your point about her excelling in two sports is laughable.
So, you are saying that because a person can excel in more than
one sport, that means they cannot be considered as really really great?

Big Ears

It's an amazing achievement and well done to Katie but let's be fair, she's still no McLarnin.

Running Bing

walshb wrote: »

Yeah, silly me to believe that a 4 time Euro and two time world champ beaten once in 62 fights and the most
dominant female athlete in boxing for the last 5 years would ever be considered ahead of those names:rolleyes:

You can try and demean it all you like, but the stas are the proof. She is the most dominant female athlete we have ever produced, EVER. Sorry, the most dominant athlete we have ever produced. 4 Eurpoeans and two world titles and doing it against the best female fighters on the planet. She is meeting them all. Have you ever seen her perform?

George Best? Eh, and what exactly did he win? Team sport too.
Sonia? Fantastic athlete, flopped on the big stage. World Title, one
world title.

Eamon? Great runner too. Running is the most natural sport in the world. It requires speed and endurance. It's not near as complex and difficult as
Boxing.

Kelly and Roche? Again, both great but not near as dominant as Taylor in a sport dogged by drug rumors. It's cycling, not boxing and lke running, it's not near as difficult. It is close in terms of stamina and endurance, but nothing else.

Ronnie Delaney? Again, great runner...

All the names you mention are fantastic, but none can compare to the level
of continued success and dominance that Taylor has achieved.

What does running and cycling not being as technically demanding as boxing have to do with anything? Boxing is not as technically demanding as gymnastics but it doesnt make it a lesser sport.

Also cycling is probably the toughest sport in the world (close between it and boxing imo) and it is incredibly demanding.

And, your point about her excelling in two sports is laughable.
So, you are saying that because a person can excel in more than
one sport, that means they cannot be considered as really really great?

No my point is such is the level of quality and lack of depth in those sports one person can be classed as amongst the best in both.

Like I said her achievements are impressive I just dont really take those sports as seriously as other ones.

For me it would be like somebody dominating in Boules or ploughing or fishing or curling.....I just dont rate those sports very highly (even though I still respect the participants and the skills necessary to succeed).

walshb

Big Ears wrote: »

It's an amazing achievement and well done to Katie but let's be fair, she's still no McLarnin.

Well, he was a man:)

Anyway, she is more dominat, that is fact. Jimmy was voted a top 5 welter ever if I am correct. It was Ring magazine who voted this. That is phenomenal

walshb

Running Bing wrote: »

Like I said her achievements are impressive I just dont really take those sports as seriously as other ones.

For me it would be like somebody dominating in Boules or ploughing or fishing or curling.....I just dont rate those sports very highly (even though I still respect the participants and the skills necessary to succeed).

You don't take womens boxing seriously? I think you think that it isn't competitive. It is, and very much so and getting stronger. We are talking about the best in the whole world here. We are talking about countries like China and India and the U.S. and France and the British and Germans and Turks. I have seen her fight several times and she is tested hard and is just so superior. She is comparable to Bolt in sprinting. She is that far ahead.

Would you dismiss Bolt because he is so dominant, hence, the talent cannot be good? No, he is just the best of the best.

One athlete comes to mind that achieved success as great as Katie. Michelle Smith with that astonishing haul in 1996. But, we all know what happened after

Running Bing

walshb wrote: »

You don't take womens boxing seriously? I think you think that it isn't competitive. It is, and very much so and getting stronger. We are talking about the best in the whole world here. We are talking about countries like China and India and the U.S. and France and the British and Germans and Turks. I have seen her fight several times and she is tested hard and is just so superior. She is comparable to Bolt in sprinting. She is that far ahead.

Would you dismiss Bolt because he is so dominant, hence, the talent cannot be good? No, he is just the best of the best.

If she is comparable to Bolt why is she not a global superstar?:rolleyes:

Look its just a question of depth. the person who excels in a larger field of competition will always be more impressive.

Its why the Olympics is more prestigious than Irelands national championships, or the world cup is held in higher regard than the European cup, or a world boxing title is more impressive than a European title.

I dont think what I am saying is too out of whack I think its just common sense.