RTE Current Affairs show looking for people in negative equity

frontline

Hi,
I'm working on a new RTE Current Affairs TV show, The Frontline, presented by Pat Kenny.
The show will be replacing Questions and Answers on a Monday night on RTE ONE and will have major audience interaction on the various topics discussed.
For our first show on September 21st we are looking to get in touch wtih people in negative equity who are angry at their situation and would be willing to chat to me about it.
If this is you please get in touch by emailing aoife.stokes@rte.ie.
Thanks

mathie

Will Pat be discussing his property-related grievances?

The_Conductor

mathie wrote: »

Will Pat be discussing his property-related grievances?

Be nice Mathie....

Diarmuid

frontline wrote: »

For our first show on September 21st we are looking to get in touch wtih people in negative equity who are angry at their situation and would be willing to chat to me about it.

Angry at whom?

AARRRGH

Diarmuid wrote: »

Angry at whom?

Anyone but themselves no doubt.

Riskymove

so RTE want people who are "angry" to go on their show heh?

so much for a balanced examination of the current situation in the property market so.....we already have Joe for such things

I had expected good things from this new Kenny Show but now?

gurramok

There is a poster on AAM who is angry at the recent Carroll judgement as it will mean in his eyes that prices will keep falling further due to firesales keeping him in further negative equity. http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=909768&postcount=45

You see, that is the type of person who blames everyone else including ACC bank rather than look in the mirror at bad financial decisions. Talk about been blind at a false market.

oceanclub

Sorry, but this sounds like a step above Jerry Springer. Get a bunch of people on to shout about how it's all the fault of the developers/bankers/politicians/immigrants. Zero chance of Pat turning around and asking them "did you ever think you shouldn't believe the media telling you that property prices will go up forever?";

P.

AARRRGH

gurramok wrote: »

There is a poster on AAM who is angry at the recent Carroll judgement as it will mean in his eyes that prices will keep falling further due to firesales keeping him in further negative equity. http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showpost.php?p=909768&postcount=45

You see, that is the type of person who blames everyone else including ACC bank rather than look in the mirror at bad financial decisions. Talk about been blind at a false market.

That moron thinks house prices are currently at crazy low prices.

The world is full of thick people like him. It's scary.

AARRRGH

oceanclub wrote: »

Sorry, but this sounds like a step above Jerry Springer. Get a bunch of people on to shout about how it's all the fault of the developers/bankers/politicians/immigrants. Zero chance of Pat turning around and asking them "did you ever think you shouldn't believe the media telling you that property prices will go up forever?";

P.

I agree.

The problem is the public don't understand the concept of vested interests, so they believe everything the media tell them, especially if the opinions are coming from someone who sounds and looks respectable, e.g. a banker, a politician, a doctor, etc.

faceman

You have to have some sympathy though. The government and the banks were pushing for people to take out mortgages and buy houses. Incentives were put out there for people to do so without any warnings of the pitfalls.

Negative equity is only an issue if you are selling. So if the show is only going to have people on who are in negative equity but arent selling, then its a pretty pointless show.

oceanclub

AARRRGH wrote: »

That moron thinks house prices are currently at crazy low prices.

The world is full of thick people like him. It's scary.

That poster says "the current valuations are similarly crazy" and his posting is left up on AAM.

I posted with the line "prices are still way too high" and the posting was deleted by Brendan Burgess specifically for that line as "We do not allow discussion of house prices".

So, saying "prices are too low" is fine, "prices are still way too high" is "discussing house prices" and forbidden.

AskAboutMoney - what a heap of ****.

P.

AARRRGH

faceman wrote: »

You have to have some sympathy though.

I don't like to see anyone suffer, but people need to learn to take personal responsibility for their decisions.

I could see we were in a bubble (I have always said this in my posts) so I refused to buy.

If I was able to do resist temptation, they should have been able to too.

jhegarty

Diarmuid wrote: »

Angry at whom?

I presume angry at the presenters of i'm an adult get me out of here , house hunters..etc..etc..

faceman

AARRRGH wrote: »

I don't like to see anyone suffer, but people need to learn to take personal responsibility for their decisions.

I could see we were in a bubble (I have always said this in my posts) so I refused to buy.

If I was able to do resist temptation, they should have been able to too.

What about couples or people who have been forced into an unforseen situation with their property due to redundancy or marriage break up?

Nobody buys a house with the expectation that things are going to get rough and lets be honest, nobody foresaw the how bad the recession would hit Ireland.

Salvelinus

faceman wrote: »

You have to have some sympathy though. The government and the banks were pushing for people to take out mortgages and buy houses. Incentives were put out there for people to do so without any warnings of the pitfalls.

Negative equity is only an issue if you are selling. So if the show is only going to have people on who are in negative equity but arent selling, then its a pretty pointless show.

I have very sympathy for people who are suffering but as others have said personal responsibility ocmes into it. Alot of people thought of their house as an atm or that if their house price rose they were millionaires. Some of the old threads on here are scary.

oceanclub

jhegarty wrote: »

I presume angry at the presenters of i'm an adult get me out of here , house hunters..etc..etc..

If they had a show which featured RTE's promoted expert on property Liz O'Kane explaining to the angry people why she was right all along, I'd certainly turn in; virtual lynchings can be fun.

http://quotesfromthebubble.blogspot.com/2009/07/liz-okane-property-tv-show-presenter.html

P.

AARRRGH

faceman wrote: »

What about couples or people who have been forced into an unforseen situation with their property due to redundancy or marriage break up?

Nobody buys a house with the expectation that things are going to get rough and lets be honest, nobody foresaw the how bad the recession would hit Ireland.

Sure, I would have sympathy for couples who have broken up and now are desperate to get away from each other and get rid of the property, but the majority of people complaining aren't in that sort of situation.

Paulw

I bought near the end of the boom.

I'm most probably in negative equity.

Am I angry??? No. I knew the risks. I knew prices could go up more or could also go down. I budgeted on what I could afford (even factoring in a 2% rise in mortgage rates above what they were at the time). Thankfully mortgage rates have dropped, so my mortgage payments have also dropped.

No one forced anyone to buy. I was renting, and decided it was time to buy. I should have done it 2 years previous, but I was lazy. But, now I have a property that I really like, and I've no plans on selling for now.

People need to grow up and take responsibility for the choices that THEY made. They have no one to blame but themselves.

Kipperhell

I think being angry about house price drops is like being angry about gravity. Pension drops on the other hand will have a longer lasting effect and had less control in people's hands. Many of the people advocating investment schemes over property are actually in worse situations loosing more money with nothing to show.

While negative equity isn't nice I think comparatively speaking I would prefer that on an investment property than to have simply lost the money I had. Diluted shares and simply complete loss may mean the money may be gone while property will probably rise again in the long term which was always how such investments are meant to viewed.

gurramok

faceman wrote: »

Nobody buys a house with the expectation that things are going to get rough and lets be honest, nobody foresaw the how bad the recession would hit Ireland.

Thats not entirely true. Prominent non-bank paid economists foretold there was a severe recession ahead post '06 but they were told to commit suicide.

Posters on this forum including myself, basing my judgement from economic arguments put forward by others warned of impending doom since 2006 but were laughed at and ridiculed by the same people who have mostly disappeared from this forum since then with egg on their faces

faceman

Paulw wrote: »

People need to grow up and take responsibility for the choices that THEY made. They have no one to blame but themselves.

My point is concerning where there are factors that force a couple/individual into a position where negative equity is an issue.

gurramok wrote: »

Thats not entirely true. Prominent non-bank paid economists foretold there was a severe recession ahead post '06 but they were told to commit suicide.

True but unfortunately the government did all it could to shut them up and ridicule them, bar putting a gagging order on them. Not everyone in the country is expected to be an economist, nor should they have to be. An element of responsibility lies with those with power and leadership to ensure joe public can make an informed decision, particularly one that effects everyone regardless of whether you own a home or not.

wrote:

Posters on this forum including myself, basing my judgement from economic arguments put forward by others warned of impending doom since 2006 but were laughed at and ridiculed by the same people who have mostly disappeared from this forum since then with egg on their faces

Ive been here through (most) of it! I have no problem putting my hands up to say some of my early posts comments and prediction turned out to be about as useful as a chocolate teapot!

Paulw

faceman wrote: »

My point is concerning where there are factors that force a couple/individual into a position where negative equity is an issue.

Yeah, life sucks. These things happen. But, why is someone else to blame? It is unfortunate that some people are forced in to a situation where they have to sell, but surely, when they were buying, they had already considered the fact that prices can go down, as well as up?

faceman wrote: »

An element of responsibility lies with those with power and leadership to ensure joe public can make an informed decision, particularly one that effects everyone regardless of whether you own a home or not.

Should people not use their own ability to research things, before they form any decision? There were property booms and busts in the UK in the 80s. It was news here in Ireland too. It happens, and people should have considered that when buying.

People can't go blaming banks/estate agents/government. They must take responsibility for the decisions that they made. No one forced them to buy. They were simply encouraged (by govt) and given the resources to buy (by banks). But, it was their decision to buy. They should have bought within their means, and considered the potential for prices to drop.

How Strange

faceman wrote: »

True but unfortunately the government did all it could to shut them up and ridicule them, bar putting a gagging order on them. Not everyone in the country is expected to be an economist, nor should they have to be. An element of responsibility lies with those with power and leadership to ensure joe public can make an informed decision, particularly one that effects everyone regardless of whether you own a home or not.

Faceman, I'm firmly in the 'taking personal responsibility' camp. Irish people refused to believe the 'bubble' was a bubble even though a few independent economists provided imperical evidence time and again since 2004 to show we were in a bubble similar to numerous countries before us. But the powers that be said 'oh no, we're different, we're unique,' and joe and josephine soap chose to believe it even if it seemed irrational.

Yes, I have alot of empathy and sympathy for people in negative equity, of course I do, but if they want to direct their anger any where it should be at themselves.

RTE is being irresponsible with our licence fee if it uses it to make these populist, mass appeal 'lets blame someone' programmes.

IMO, we were drunk on cheap money and forgot we'd have one hell of a hangover when the party ended.

faceman

Just to clarify, Im not saying buyers are free of responsibility. Im saying that its incorrect to place the majority of the blame with buyers.

Paulw wrote: »

Should people not use their own ability to research things, before they form any decision? There were property booms and busts in the UK in the 80s. It was news here in Ireland too. It happens, and people should have considered that when buying.

THis is true. But bare in mind that a generation in Ireland upto now have never know hardship, financially or economically. "It will never happen to me" syndrome takes over no different than someone choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

The alternatives to buying are renting or living at home. The rental was and still is badly regulated leaving very few long term rental options for people in Ireland, particularly when compared with other EU countries.

Of course the Irish and English hard on for property ownership is something that I reckon will take decades to fizzle out. IMO of course.

Salvelinus

faceman wrote: »

Just to clarify, Im not saying buyers are free of responsibility. Im saying that its incorrect to place the majority of the blame with buyers.



THis is true. But bare in mind that a generation in Ireland upto now have never know hardship, financially or economically. "It will never happen to me" syndrome takes over no different than someone choosing not to wear a seatbelt.

The alternatives to buying are renting or living at home. The rental was and still is badly regulated leaving very few long term rental options for people in Ireland, particularly when compared with other EU countries.

Of course the Irish and English hard on for property ownership is something that I reckon will take decades to fizzle out. IMO of course.

Remember the rent is dead money brigade.

amdublin

Did RTE not cover this already on the LLS and a million other programs????

I'm so sick of RTE journalists coming on here looking for people who are "angry"

Angry at what? The decisions THEY made?? I'm in negative equity......but so what, I've just got to deal with it.

I wish RTE would stop rabble rousing and stop wasting my licence money paying journalists who come on to boards looking for easy sources.

amdublin

amdublin wrote: »

Did RTE not cover this already on the LLS and a million other programs????

fao OP - you used to work on the LLS right?

Is this what our licence fee is paying you to do? To repeat topics ad nauseam?

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to say that you worked on a new current affairs show that had some originality to it? Why not make that a work objective/aspiration?

SkepticOne

Salvelinus wrote: »

Remember the rent is dead money brigade.

I suspect a fair number of those same people are now blaming society for their problems.

Keith C

Regarding negative equity, why not get Brendan from AAM on & ask him why his website, used by a lot of people to get info regarding buying houses, why he banned the discussion of house prices & banned posters who tried to warn readers about a potential housing crash.
For your research I suggest you read www.thepropertypin.com & the informed posters over there who defected from AAM & posted excellant advice.
On AAM you will get people complaining about buying at the wrong time & being in negative equity. On the pin you get posters thanking members for helping them not to buy.
why not hold a poll prior to your programme about which websites, if any, buyers read for advice prior to purchasing in the last 3 years.

oceanclub

Keith C wrote: »

Regarding negative equity, why not get Brendan from AAM on & ask him why his website, used by a lot of people to get info regarding buying houses, why he banned the discussion of house prices & banned posters who tried to warn readers about a potential housing crash.
For your research I suggest you read www.thepropertypin.com & the informed posters over there who defected from AAM & posted excellant advice.
On AAM you will get people complaining about buying at the wrong time & being in negative equity. On the pin you get posters thanking members for helping them not to buy.

Here's the kind of treatment given by AAM to those who, after getting themselves into trouble by bullish sentiment, return there to ask advice:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=114281

He's also chaired the Consumer Panel of the Financial Regulator at the same time as banning people from his website for talking about property prices.

Of all people, Michael Fingleton made an apt point:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/chairman-and-dissident-go-head-to-head-1362559.html

THE Irish Nationwide annual general meeting reached boiling point yesterday when Michael Fingleton barked at dissident member Brendan Burgess "did you or did you not serve as chairman of the consumer advisory group?"

The Nationwide chairman repeated his question, to which Mr Burgess responded by asking Mr Fingleton: "Do you play golf?"

The Nationwide boss was having none of this, however. After drawing an admission from Mr Burgess that he chaired a consumer advisory panel set up by Central Bank for two years, he said: "I did not hear you on other institutions who came in offering sub-prime loans."

P.

RebelLucanRente

Well OP, I'm interested to hear your opinion on the reply's you received. Does it not seem the more relevant path would be to investigate the vested interests who pumped the property bubble up and who are currently trying to call the bottom and return us to the bubble mentality that got us into this mess?

Of course not. That would involve far too much self examination for RTE. Turkey's do not vote for Christmas.

I suggest you go elsewhere and find someone else to do your lazy, facile journalism for you. Doesn't look like anyone here is biting.

Trampas

I see this thread made the metro this morning.

oceanclub

Trampas wrote: »

I see this thread made the metro this morning.

Ooh, can anyone scan/quote it please?

P.

mickoneill30

frontline wrote: »

For our first show on September 21st we are looking to get in touch wtih people in negative equity who are angry at their situation and would be willing to chat to me about it.

How about people in negative equity that aren't angry at their situation. I bought a house I could afford. I'm living in it, and my mortgage interest has gone down. I'm happy. I'd prefer if the house was worth more but it'd make no difference to me now.

Now if I'd bought it to make a quick buck without researching properly beforehand, I might be disappointed

mickoneill30

oceanclub wrote: »

Ooh, can anyone scan/quote it please?

P.

It's online.
http://e-edition.metroireland.ie/2009/08/14/

Blowfish

oceanclub wrote: »

Ooh, can anyone scan/quote it please?

P.

I don't have it with me, but can remember some of it. They quoted a couple of the negative comments towards the show (including your 'Jerry Springer' one) which was interesting. They did leave out through any of the quotes which gave reasons why people were reacting negatively, which was a pity.

[edit] Beaten to it

AARRRGH

oceanclub wrote: »

Here's the kind of treatment given by AAM to those who, after getting themselves into trouble by bullish sentiment, return there to ask advice:

http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=114281

He's also chaired the Consumer Panel of the Financial Regulator at the same time as banning people from his website for talking about property prices.

Of all people, Michael Fingleton made an apt point:

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/chairman-and-dissident-go-head-to-head-1362559.html

Didn't someone discover that Brendan Burgess was a significant shareholder in a few Irish banks?

Could explain why talking up the market is allowed, but talking it down is not.

godtabh

Paulw wrote: »

I bought near the end of the boom.

I'm most probably in negative equity.

Am I angry??? No. I knew the risks. I knew prices could go up more or could also go down. I budgeted on what I could afford (even factoring in a 2% rise in mortgage rates above what they were at the time). Thankfully mortgage rates have dropped, so my mortgage payments have also dropped.

No one forced anyone to buy. I was renting, and decided it was time to buy. I should have done it 2 years previous, but I was lazy. But, now I have a property that I really like, and I've no plans on selling for now.

People need to grow up and take responsibility for the choices that THEY made. They have no one to blame but themselves.

I was more or less the same.

I remember when I went to by a house I was being offered home loans up to 10 times my salary. That was irresponsible lending and I knew it but not alot of people knew it. If the banks were regulated properly and specific criteria for lending were agreed upon and stuck to I dont think we would be were we are now.

Every one is to blame. Some more than others. People I blame the most is the media.

My mortgage is about 5 times my salary which i believe is a decent ratio. In the end I bought some where beside a transport hub with large stable employment within a 2 mile radius. Great if I ever decided to rent it out. Could also be a benefit I decide to sell but that wont be happening any time soon as I’m happy where I am.

ntlbell

would someone mind copy/pasting the article?

AARRRGH

ntlbell wrote: »

would someone mind copy/pasting the article?

I read it, it's literally someone says the show sounds like Jerry Springer, and someone else says it sounds crap.

The reference to boards.ie is only about one or two lines long.

oceanclub

Here's an idea; why don't RTE, instead of coming up with programme ideas themselves and _then_ asking the public to merely appear, actually seek public advice as to what kind of programmes they want?

From this thread, it looks like people would like to see a discussion on property - but not just a one-sided one consisted of people in negative equity ranting.

RTE did "Future Shock" which they should be congratulated for, but it hardly begins to balance out the hours and hours of property shilling the channel has done.

P.

J-blk

ntlbell wrote: »

would someone mind copy/pasting the article?

Here it is - emphasis mine, to highlight the part where this thread is referred to:

THERE were plenty of programmes to look out for – and, as usual, plenty to go out for – in RTÉ’s new season line-up, unveiled yesterday.

As Ryan Tubridy makes the short trip to his new desk on The Late Late Show, predecessor Pat Kenny’s fate will be on The Frontline, a new current affairs programme which, between selected guests and a studio audience, promises to ‘instigate lively debate on the most important news stories of the week’.

One researcher from the hard-hitting programme was already trying to round up audience members on Boards.ie, whose request for angry
homeowners in negative equity was met with such replies as ‘Will Pat be
discussing his property-related grievances?’, ‘This sounds like a step
above Jerry Springer’ and ‘We already have Joe for such things’.

On the factual front, the new 2009/2010 season sees Charlie Bird
making a programme about Charlie Bird called Charlie Bird’s American
Year, in which RTÉ’s newest Washington correspondent takes us through ‘an extraordinary year in American and global politics’.
RTÉ’s comedy line-up is perhaps the most promising, with comedians
Jason Byrne, Maeve Higgins, Dave McSavage, Karl Spain and PJ Gallagher
all bestowed with their own brand new shows. A new series cowritten
by Arthur Mathews entitled Val Falvey TD will see the Father Ted
writer reunited with Ardal O’Hanlon, who will play the recently elected
politician. The brains behind the brilliant Dan&Becs are back with a new
show, Sarah & Steve, focusing on a couple from Tallaght and their struggling relationship. Ballydung bachelors Podge & Rodge will host a new
quiz from their new hangout, The Stickit Inn. Gráinne Seoige, whose
afternoon chat show is not being carried over into the new schedule, makes her return next season with the All Ireland Talent Show and Up for The Match.

And economist David McWilliams will present an examination of Ireland’s
international position in the global economic slump. Film premieres include Rocky Balboa, The Devil Wears Prada and Happy Feet.

iguana

I'm angry. Can I be on your show? I'm 30 years old and living abroad with my husband, we really, really want to move home and have been planning to for over 2 years, but with each day that passes it seems more and more impossible. I'm not in negative equity, but I'm seriously angry with the way my country has been run for the last decade and the housing bubble was a big part of that.

Instead of building a decent solid economy while we had the chance we got an economy based on building houses that nobody needs and pretending everyone was a millionaire. So now we are stuck living abroad when all we want to do is come home and raise a family where our parents and siblings live.

Oh well, at least we still have all our other Irish friends living here because none of them can move home either, despite quite a few of them wanting to. And I suspect more and more of our friends will be joining us over the next few years, those that aren't in NE anyway. Because all the state is interested in doing is propping up what was wrong in the first place.

mathie

J-blk wrote: »

Here it is - emphasis mine, to highlight the part where this thread is referred to:

I'm famous!

Oh hang on it's only the Metro.

What about the next generation or those who want to buy
They are angry, angry that the Government will take their money and use it to keep prices artificially high through NAMA

Keith C

Keith C wrote: »

Regarding negative equity, why not get Brendan from AAM on & ask him why his website, used by a lot of people to get info regarding buying houses, why he banned the discussion of house prices & banned posters who tried to warn readers about a potential housing crash.
For your research I suggest you read www.thepropertypin.com & the informed posters over there who defected from AAM & posted excellant advice.
On AAM you will get people complaining about buying at the wrong time & being in negative equity. On the pin you get posters thanking members for helping them not to buy.
why not hold a poll prior to your programme about which websites, if any, buyers read for advice prior to purchasing in the last 3 years.

yeah and while your at it find out why RTE had him on the news saying people should "fill their boots with Irish bank shares" and then they collapsed.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2631&p=126966&hilit=Brendan+Burgess+fill+your+boots#p126966

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0916/6news_av.html?2423285,null,230

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0916/6news.html
THERE IS THE VIDEO!! ^^^^^


Im angry why did RTE have this on?? Furthermore how did RTE prime time get in contact with Aileen O`Toole from the useless leeching Ideas campaign??

So many ****ing questions those pricks need to answer...am I angry enough for your show?

and here you can look at bank share prices on historical graphs to see what great advice was up on RTE courtesy of Brendan Burgess
http://www.ise.ie/app/equityDetails.asp?equity=28082&start_day=16&start_month=9&start_year=2008

**** ***** ***** ****!!!!!

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=ERJ20080610.xml&Node=H2

Brendan Burgess, former chairman of the Financial Regulator’s consumer panel, who will discuss the work of the Financial Regulator

Firetrap

faceman wrote: »

Negative equity is only an issue if you are selling. So if the show is only going to have people on who are in negative equity but arent selling, then its a pretty pointless show.

I wouldn't agree with that really. If I was a home-owner, I'd be pretty peeved if I was paying off a mortgage of 250k, say and the person next door has bought an identical house for €175k. That's a lot of lost disposable income.

DJDC

That guy from AAM deserves a mention, banning discussion about house prices on a forum about Irish money issues is ridicilous. But you get the impression that the average poster on that site isnt exactly the full shilling either.

The_Conductor

DJDC wrote: »

That guy from AAM deserves a mention, banning discussion about house prices on a forum about Irish money issues is ridicilous. But you get the impression that the average poster on that site isnt exactly the full shilling either.

As oppossed to here- where most of us are accussed almost daily of pursuing agendas :cool:

Quite what my perceived agenda is- I don't know......?

oceanclub

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah and while your at it find out why RTE had him on the news saying people should "fill their boots with Irish bank shares" and then they collapsed.

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2631&p=126966&hilit=Brendan+Burgess+fill+your+boots#p126966

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0916/6news_av.html?2423285,null,230

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0916/6news.html
THERE IS THE VIDEO!! ^^^^^

I'd never seen that before, and have to say his advice that the government not raise the minimum guarantee was bizarre. It's probably one of the few sensible options the government made; it cost nothing and prevented mass panic withdrawals from the banks. Even he admits later in the interview that that may have happened.

Burgess doesn't appear to realise that some of us may have large sums in the banks but aren't necesarily wealthy; those of us who shunned his buy-at-any-price mentality and saved for the inevitable crash, all warnings of which he astudiously deleted from his little online fiefdom.

As for "banks are very well-regulated... bank are very sound"? *snort*

P.