How big is MMA in Ireland becoming?

Kent Brockman

MMA really seems to have taken off in this country. From reading here there is at least 6 events coming up before the end of the year:eek::eek:

Rumble in Rush, Fight before Christmas, Tribal warfare, Chaos, 2 in August (cant remember at the moment , EFR are doing one and that 8 man tournie), not to mention the MMA league:eek:
And thats not including ROT/Cot which will surely be happening again soon.

My question is this: Do we have a big enough pool of active fighters to accommodate what seems like a busy schedule? Is it the same fighters most of the time or is there foreign teams/fighters competing as well as Irish? How big can this get?

Although it seems to be working well with lots of new guys arriving on the scene and coming up through the ranks.

Is the fan base there to support all this?

Intrested to hear some views:D

OMCCABE

I don't think theres any risk of having too many shows here in Ireland a present. It provides more income to fighters and a better chance to build a record that may increase their marketability if they are to fight abroad also.

dunkamania

The growth in the local mma scene still lags that of the sport in general THis is true even among local people. Consider the UFC in Dublin that sold out very quickly, and most of the audience probably hadnt been to a local show before then, or since.

Roper

I think the audience is there but the fighters aren't. Certainly not at pro level.

At the moment I think we've hit saturation point for shows with one or two a month going on. There'll always be a lot of fighters available at C class but the question now is whether the audiences who are becoming more educated will be satisfied with seeing amateur bouts or mainly amateur bouts on a card. Certainly my show last year attracted a lot of friends and family but wasn't as satisfying to the more learned MMA fans. That one was a fun to do and a good trial run , but this time I'll have about 50-50 pro and amateur as I think that's the way shows should go. But I have the benefit of owning my own venue and ring so I won't have to go to so much expense this time too. That being said, I'll be putting on amateur only shows in the future. They give guys opportunities and often bring in new fans who get their introduction to the sport too.

But I think the biggest challenge facing MMA in Ireland is not whether there are too many shows or not, it's getting the multitude of MMA fans out there off the couch and into a local show. I don't think people realise quite how close to the top of the MMA tree a lot of the active pros operating in Ireland are. Obviously there's Tom Egan, Stevie Lynch and Colin Robinson who fought in the UFC, but there's also a few Cage Rage and Cage Warriors veterans, and guys like Greg Loughran, Steve McCombe, Neil Seery who are fighting in the UK, Europe and the US. If you go to a local show you might well be watching the future stars.

Jason Mc

It's just the way all sports are. More people watch Man U in Ireland than bother to go watch the likes of shamrock rovers at a local venue.


It will end up with a miriade of small shows and 1 or 2 big ones.

Lots of new clubs entering the scene and a lot of new faces fighting. The cream will float to the top as with any sport.

It's a good thing so many are entering the scene. I believe the irish will be a force as they are in boxing some day soon

Martin Walker

The sport has exploded in Ireland in the last few years and im pretty sure it will just get bigger and bigger.
Loads of shows but i dont see this as a problem as there are loads of new clubs appearing every week. The thing i think you will see is the death of the "Full Pro" show for a while. Cage Wars will still have there big Pro cards in Belfast a couple of times a year. EFR normally have Pro shows but they havnt put one on in a while and havnt announced any before the turn of the year. And Cage of Truth wont be putting on any this year either. Promotions now seem to be mixed level. Some people dont like this but i think its great. These young guys wanna learn and move up the ranks instead of just jumping into the deep end of pro when they arnt ready. I do agree with Barry tho. There just isnt enough pros to go around. Thats why i think the Pro shows will dry up for a while. Just until the pool of young fighters gets more experience and gets bigger. The only thing that worries me about the emergence of new clubs and Promotions is that they do things right. Be professional. Look after the fighters and dont do it just for the cash.
Just some of my thoughts
Marty

Professey Chin

It's a nice size at the moment but it'll explode when I make my debut :pac:
People like to see me get hurt for some reason:(

Really though I think its coming along nicely with a nice amount of shows.
I just wish I was able to go see more local ones. Most of them are in the north or dub.No love for the south

Raze_them_all

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

It's a nice size at the moment but it'll explode when I make my debut :pac:
People like to see me get hurt for some reason:(

Really though I think its coming along nicely with a nice amount of shows.
I just wish I was able to go see more local ones. Most of them are in the north or dub.No love for the south

That's cos the clubs down here are relatively new. Like it's been pointed out before it takes a fair bit of dosh to throw a show together, not alot of new clubs have that money lying around

calex71

As a fan , i have been to 1 Irish show

On here would be the only place I would hear about them really, and usually they are too far away for me to attend unfortunately :mad:

This is not anyones fault, just not easy for me and I guess many to attend events here. I know I know you say if i cared that much i'd make the effort but just many events are out of the way and difficult times if you are relying on good old public transport.

Guys would it be fair to say that many people at the events would be locals, club members / family and friends of fighters? Not a dig just an honest question.

Good point re: class c fights on the cards, might not be what the typical arm chair fan is expecting after ufc et al but it's difficult as the number of lads who could fight pro would be limited id imagine, not due to skill but for financial reasons and work and family commitments.

Professey Chin

Raze_them_all wrote: »

That's cos the clubs down here are relatively new. Like it's been pointed out before it takes a fair bit of dosh to throw a show together, not alot of new clubs have that money lying around

I know
Im just bitter :pac:

cowzerp

calex71 wrote: »

Guys would it be fair to say that many people at the events would be locals, club members / family and friends of fighters? Not a dig just an honest question..

Thats fair enough, thats why for a show to work you need some local fighters on it, i dont know many people who'd be willing to travel to watch MMA unless they knew somebody fighting.. Shame but true, with all the local shows that might change when the local fans realise how much they enjoy it and start seeking it out.

RugbyFanatic

Interest in watching MMA and in particular UFC is sky rocketing however I can't see it extending to people attending the domestic MMA shows in such large numbers.

I have a funny feeling its going to be not disimiliar to Irish football fans with most watching the premier league (in this case UFC) and ignoring the eircom league (in this case Irish grass roots MMA)

Hope I'm wrong though!

cowzerp

My last show in Rush sold out 2 weeks before the event, the only tickets left where 1's the other team coaches gave back and they sold as soon as they where handed back, it was because there was plenty of locals fighting but still its cool

Raze_them_all

In my experience in the shows I've been to they've all been sold out, some even over sold if I'm honest!
The fan base is definately there.

Martin Walker

Raze_them_all wrote: »

In my experience in the shows I've been to they've all been sold out, some even over sold if I'm honest!

Shhhhhhhhhhh!;)

Honestly tho Irish MMA has never been in a better place.

Roper

calex71 wrote: »

Guys would it be fair to say that many people at the events would be locals, club members / family and friends of fighters? Not a dig just an honest question.

No that's a perfectly correct observation, and comes back to my point above. I reckon while people might go and see an amateur show for their mates the first time, would they then go to another amateur show the next time, or would only a pro show get them to turn out?

I'm interested because obviously I want to sell out the shows I'm putting on, but also because I want to see the sport grow. I'd be interested in the response from any casual Irish MMA fans.

cowzerp

Roper wrote: »

I'm interested because obviously I want to sell out the shows I'm putting on, but also because I want to see the sport grow. I'd be interested in the response from any casual Irish MMA fans.

All the people who came out of my show spoke about it for weeks in Rush, i think it will sell out quicker next time tbh, but we had 6 locals on, really helps

Raze_them_all

Martin Walker wrote: »

Shhhhhhhhhhh!;)

Honestly tho Irish MMA has never been in a better place.

Exacttly what I'm saying the demand is there to sell out shows, probably twice over in some places.

I think alot of people go out of interest as it's something different, Down here where hurling rules *smacks head off wall* everytime there is a fight show put on it's sold out.

The kickboxing club has been talking about throwing a show on with one or two mma fights on it as they know mma brings in crowds more than kickboxing nowdays IMO

calex71

cowzerp wrote: »

All the people who came out of my show spoke about it for weeks in Rush, i think it will sell out quicker next time tbh, but we had 6 locals on, really helps

Some might say the people of sleepy little Rush got quite a rush that night

......I'll get my coat


Show i went to, I had 2 pals with me from dundalk. These lads would have called mma... ufc but based on the enjoyment of said event have been to several since! So there's hope for yee lot yet

colinlaird000

I think we're doing ok. There are a limited number of pro fighters, because, like you guys say, the MMA "scene" hasnt been around in ireland that long. Again, as has been said, there are a million and one guys i know who watch UFC and wear the hoodys, yet wouldnt even think about even trying a nights training.
Its the same as football. How many Man Utd fans do you see that couldnt run the length of themselves? :P Most people just like watching their team / fighter knock lumps out of someone else after having a bad week at work. Hence why theres a trend for supporting AC Milan, rather than Bangor FC. When they win, it makes people feel like theyre winning, and life isnt so bad after all!
We need to build the sport up from a grass roots level, and work from there. We dont have that many senior fighters / trainers, and the main players have been involved in the scene from way back, mostly having a significant background in another martial art. So its going to take a bit of time!
The BJJ / submission wrestling scene, which is a fundamental aspect of the MMA game, still doesnt really attract that many people. The Thai guys im sure experience the same thing. Its very difficult to commit yourself to the training required to fight under pro rules. I'll not kid myself into saying those who fight under said rules are true professionals. 95% of us have day jobs, and couldnt survive otherwise. All we can do is stick at it, and hopefully in a few years guys who arent fighting will be opening gyms, and the level will step up another notch.

sonoflife

Roper wrote: »

I think the audience is there but the fighters aren't. Certainly not at pro level.

At the moment I think we've hit saturation point for shows with one or two a month going on. There'll always be a lot of fighters available at C class but the question now is whether the audiences who are becoming more educated will be satisfied with seeing amateur bouts or mainly amateur bouts on a card. Certainly my show last year attracted a lot of friends and family but wasn't as satisfying to the more learned MMA fans. That one was a fun to do and a good trial run , but this time I'll have about 50-50 pro and amateur as I think that's the way shows should go. But I have the benefit of owning my own venue and ring so I won't have to go to so much expense this time too. That being said, I'll be putting on amateur only shows in the future. They give guys opportunities and often bring in new fans who get their introduction to the sport too.

But I think the biggest challenge facing MMA in Ireland is not whether there are too many shows or not, it's getting the multitude of MMA fans out there off the couch and into a local show. I don't think people realise quite how close to the top of the MMA tree a lot of the active pros operating in Ireland are. Obviously there's Tom Egan, Stevie Lynch and Colin Robinson who fought in the UFC, but there's also a few Cage Rage and Cage Warriors veterans, and guys like Greg Loughran, Steve McCombe, Neil Seery who are fighting in the UK, Europe and the US. If you go to a local show you might well be watching the future stars.

Very true, an very well said!!!

stevemc01

I see where the comparison with supporting UK football teams and not supporting your local team is coming from but there is one huge difference between football and MMA.

Football is at saturation point on our TV's , you can watch a football match from somewhere, be it England, Italy, Spain, Holland, France, European games/internationals nearly every night of the week during the season. Dont even talk about the weekends where you could watch wall to wall football from when you get up to when you get to bed.

Where am I going with this? Well MMA is not anywhere near that level. we have the UFC once or maybe twice a month if we are lucky and then you are restricted to old Cage Rage and Strikeforce highlights late at night and the BAMMA events on Bravo. There are hundreds maybe thousands of Irish MMA fans who know nothing about the local scene and we need more advertising of these shows to be put out there.

I know advertising costs money, but even if the promoter emailed an A4 sized poster to maybe 20 clubs around the country that they could put up in their club or in the local gym or sports club notice boards it would attract more fans and get the word out there.

colinlaird000

It depends who you want to advertise to. Putting it up in gyms will be preaching to the converted. A lot of the gyms you advertise in might either have fighters on the show, or be looking to fight in it some time ibn the future. The other side of the coin is advertising to the masses. Is it worth the risk of advertising in the local paper? Then we're back to the same old blood sport arguement with the local authorities and the press. I know the UFC pay for advertising space on billboards in any city they are holding a show in. That takes revenue. Its a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

Furious-Dave

What about flooding colleges and universities with fliers? Or would it be worth it?

arybvtcw0eolkf

calex71 wrote: »

Guys would it be fair to say that many people at the events would be locals, club members / family and friends of fighters? Not a dig just an honest question.

.

In my opinion this hits the nail on the head.

And if this forum is representitive of anything, its a sad reflection on the sport that the UFC fan boy's here rarely if ever have any kind of commentry on the local scene.

Speaking personally, I love the local MMA scene and try to attend most events around the country. I've only attended one UFC show (in the O2 here in Dublin) and found it lagged way behind the up-close and personal excitement I get from the Irish shows.

I thinks its a little pathetic that the guys here who could tell me the lenght & colour of the skid marks in Brock Lesnar jocks wouldn't know an Irish MMA fighter from the man on the moon.

Good thread!.

Roper

To give you a comparison, I used to be involved in taekwondo and tournaments would have anything up to 800 competitors. On Saturday we're having a submission tournament which is going to be massively supported by all the clubs and that will have 120 competitors. That's excellent, but you can see the difference in popularity.

I think MMA only SEEMS like it's popular because it has a big TV following. You still can't compare it to a more established martial art like TKD or Kratty which have massive amounts of clubs and kids training in them.

MMA also doesn't help itself, and this forum is as guilty as any, by constantly emphasising the tough man stuff. It's a hard sport but is it really that much tougher than rugby? My son grapples already at age 4, but would I put him into an MMA club if all I saw was forums and TV? No I wouldn't.

Furious-Dave

Roper wrote: »

Kratty

Please don't use that word. It's F'ing ignorant and downright disrespectful to the Martial Art/hobby some people have chosen to practice! :mad:

Judomad

Furious-Dave wrote: »

Please don't use that word. It's F'ing ignorant and downright disrespectful to the Martial Art/hobby some people have chosen to practice! :mad:

LOL......

Furious-Dave

Judomad wrote: »

LOL......

I know. Roper probably didn't mean anything by it, but I'm sick of it and it just hit a nerve.

colinlaird000

MMA is a hard sport, and more significantly,theres no place to hide. While rugby is confrontational by nature (unless you play in the back line ), When you're wee you can still get away with hanging off and generally "participating" while not being that involved in the action yourself. At that age its the team building thats key element.
Its this "you versus me" in MMA that puts mummy off sending their kid to MMA class. Even the stigma of "MMA" as a name kind of puts people off. A lot of kids martial arts clubs, (to the average fee paying parent anyway) are no more than a glorified creche and they arent really fussed about the sport itself. its somewhere to meet other parents, arrange school runs and keep the kids busy for an hour or two. So how do we feed young talent into our sport, and how do we market it without it intimidating parents of the very children that will keep our sport alive? The last thing i want is it to become fight-porn to the uncivilised amongst us. Are we safer to keep it broken down into boxing and jiu jitsu etc up to a certain age. After all, most of us struggle to be super good at all elements of the game, and tend to focus our attentions on one or two aspects / ranges. There just arent enough hours in the day.

angeldance

I personally think that it's the local fighters that bring the crowds to the shows. I've been to one show (I was doing ringgirl), and I wanted to get to the last chaos show but unfortunatly couldn't but will def make the next one, as I train with Evolve and wanna support the team. I think it's more exciting going to events where you know people that are fighting, you can get more involved and cheer them on. If it was all foreign fighters then I don't think the shows would be as sold out as they are when local fighters are on the bill.

Now in saying that, it mightn't be as appealing for a more sessioned MMA fan to go watch a show with all debut fighters but I think mixing it up with different amature, semi-pro and pro fights gives the crowd an action packed night. It also gives the fighters the opportunity to work their way up the rankings and gives them more exposure.

I also do kickboxing and to be honest from the sounds of things on here, the mma fightshows pull more crowds than the kickboxing shows do. God, that was abit of a rant haha.

Roper

colinlaird000 wrote: »

While rugby is confrontational by nature (unless you play in the back line ),

Please don't slag the backs, it's fvcking ignorant and disrespectful to the positions people have been picked to play in.

colinlaird000

I forgot that you glory boys have a sensitive nature. My apologies.:p

rovert

Lilyana Clumsy Transmitter wrote: »

In my opinion this hits the nail on the head.

And if this forum is representitive of anything, its a sad reflection on the sport that the UFC fan boy's here rarely if ever have any kind of commentry on the local scene.

Speaking personally, I love the local MMA scene and try to attend most events around the country. I've only attended one UFC show (in the O2 here in Dublin) and found it lagged way behind the up-close and personal excitement I get from the Irish shows.

I thinks its a little pathetic that the guys here who could tell me the lenght & colour of the skid marks in Brock Lesnar jocks wouldn't know an Irish MMA fighter from the man on the moon.

Good thread!.

It is no use to just expecting to be gifted with hordes of punters off the back of UFC's success here as that rarely goes for other sports or forms of entertainment. It is a promoter’s job to do the foot work to engage and attract people to shows as preachy as that sounds.

ginoginelli

rovert wrote: »

It is no use to just expecting to be gifted with hordes of punters off the back of UFC's success here as that rarely goes for other sports or forms of entertainment. It is a promoter’s job to do the foot work to engage and attract people to shows as preachy as that sounds.

Agreed.

Makikomi, as usual, has completely grasped the wrong end of the stick.

Martin Walker

colinlaird000 wrote: »

So how do we feed young talent into our sport,

Step up Mr Brock Lesnar and the UFC Undisputed videogame.
Love him or hate him Brock has introduced the world of MMA to a generation of young WWE fans. I work with children every day and since Brock moved to MMA and the UFC video game came out the amount of young lad that want to come to our gym has been amazing.

colinlaird000 wrote: »

how do we market it without it intimidating parents of the very children that will keep our sport alive?

Education
Education
Education

Oh and ive found that open days are a good way to get the kids parents in the gym to see what we really do.

Dragon_Photos

Unfortunatly I have not been able to get to any of the fights in Ireland yet.
But I do know "Ash the bash" we have the same coach. Have met her a few times.
Both myself and fiancee have been doing MMA for 5mths and love it.

rovert

Martin Walker wrote: »

Step up Mr Brock Lesnar and the UFC Undisputed videogame.
Love him or hate him Brock has introduced the world of MMA to a generation of young WWE fans. I work with children every day and since Brock moved to MMA and the UFC video game came out the amount of young lad that want to come to our gym has been amazing.

Who would have thought it Brock Lesnar this generation's Bruce Lee

Raze_them_all

rovert wrote: »

Who would have thought it Brock Lesnar this generation's Bruce Lee

Thank christ your only messing there!! I knew even you can't nuthug brock that much!

Dragon_Photos

There is a class in Inchicore and it is great for the kids the teacher has his own kids in it and they are thought the basics so simply and its fun even to watch and the parents watch the class also.

The coaches name is Ian, he caters for kids 5 years and up.

Martin Walker

rovert wrote: »

Who would have thought it Brock Lesnar this generation's Bruce Lee

lol. Hes such a legend i dunno what we did without him......:D

Some very good points raised here

I have to say i can draw MASSIVE similarities between the battle ye are fighting to promote MMA here and the battle i fight myself to support and promote my local LOI club, Galway United.

The similarities between the two is startling.... The vast majority of fans only want to watch the UFC, it's the same with football supporters here, they think football doesn't exist outside of the Premiership.

Personally i still haven't been to a live event here and couldn't name one fighter on the circuit, but i was actually thinking lately to try get to the next Tribal Warfare in October.

However one problem you encounter when trying to get fans with a passing interest in, is the admission prices, looking at the prices for TW a few months back, i personally found them quite expensive to see fighters i know little about(E30ish??), i'm not sure if this is a standard price across the board??.
Maybe that's something that could be looked at in the short term to get new fans in on the local circuits?

Another problem is the fact these fighters are unknown(just like League Of Ireland players), you have to make the fighters known, then there comes the glamour side of it seeing a fighter you've read about in the papers etc..... this one though can't be easy to resolve, maybe through some unified MAA circuit this could be achieved??

Anyway i'll be heading to the next TW as long as i can talk someone else in to coming and hoping for a good nights entertainment on home soil :pac:

Raze_them_all

The usual price for mma in the republic are 25-30 euro .

Trust us any home event is well woth the money, each one usually has a surprising fight thats cracking, In the last rumble in rush the two girls put on a cracker of a fight!

crusher20

Could it be that irish mma just isn't good or interesting enough? While UFC may have a large following here it can by no means be taken as a sign of the popularity of irish mma. Ive no doubt that there are capable irish fighters out there but there is something missing and i guess it will be sorted out in time but will we ever have an irish man or woman fighting with the elite? very doubtful

Judomad

crusher20 wrote: »

Could it be that irish mma just isn't good or interesting enough? While UFC may have a large following here it can by no means be taken as a sign of the popularity of irish mma. Ive no doubt that there are capable irish fighters out there but there is something missing and i guess it will be sorted out in time but will we ever have an irish man or woman fighting with the elite? very doubtful

while u sit in ur arm-chair i suppose!!!!!

crusher20

I presume the people you would like to go and watch local mma shows sit in armchairs also but hey if you want to be elitist about it

PADRAIC.M

Irish mma is absolutely interesting and good enough, going to an irish show is like watching ufc for the first time, of course you won't recognise the fighters but the next few shows you see you'll go "oh yeah remember that guy, his last fight was a war" and 30 euro isn't much compared to ufc prices and you are sure to see the same kind of action, and the majority of irish fighters have to get up and go to work on a monday morning, for the level of talent we have the irish scene is far from not good enough or not interesting. Alot of the top level Irish fighters are ranked high in uk and europe.

crusher20

you cant compare irish mma and the ufc in fairness. Im not for a second trying to dog irish mma but come on

Raze_them_all

crusher20 wrote: »

Could it be that irish mma just isn't good or interesting enough? While UFC may have a large following here it can by no means be taken as a sign of the popularity of irish mma. Ive no doubt that there are capable irish fighters out there but there is something missing and i guess it will be sorted out in time but will we ever have an irish man or woman fighting with the elite? very doubtful

No. Including up north we've had 3 in the ufc, Greg laughren fought eddie alverez and nearly caused an upset in bellator, Dave kelly and a few rhynno mma fighters were over in the uk lately, Gary morris holds a title of a uk promotion, Steve Mccombe is the number 3 or 4 fighter ranked in his weight class in europe. Ash Daley is having trouble finding girls to fight her as she's tore through everyone she's fought so far.

How many local shows have you actually been to. The atmosphere are always electric as people know someone who is fighting on the local shows.

cowzerp

crusher20 wrote: »

Could it be that irish mma just isn't good or interesting enough? While UFC may have a large following here it can by no means be taken as a sign of the popularity of irish mma.

It might not be at UFC level but the competitiveness is and the effort put in by the fighters in the ring/cage is too, Irish MMA is not that popular but it does ok and is slowly growing.

crusher20 wrote: »

I presume the people you would like to go and watch local mma shows sit in armchairs also but hey if you want to be elitist about it

It would be nice if UFC fans came once to see a show and actually checked if the enetertainment is as good as UFC but the shows do be full anyway so your not actually needed in that sense, they might be pleasantly suprised, My 1st show had lots of 1st timers and on paper could have been a flop, result-full house and everyone enjoyed it and wants more.

crusher20 wrote: »

you cant compare irish mma and the ufc in fairness. Im not for a second trying to dog irish mma but come on

UFC can be very boring a lot of the time, a lot of the time lately there is 1-2 ok fights and lots of snorefest fights, in local MMA shows most fights are tough well matched, knowing fighters does add to the entertainment, thats why UFC does so well, but the only way to get to know Irish fighters is to get up and go to the next local show close to your home..

rovert

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Thank christ your only messing there!! I knew even you can't nuthug brock that much!

Joking or not here, I’m not a Brock nut hugger. Sorry that I didn’t think Brock was a "fake fighter" and that the post match with Mir was the worst thing ever for the sport. A few weeks on from UFC 100 what have we learned: the PPV did 1.72 million buys, more network television stations want UFC in the States as a direct result of the interest Brock generated and it seems going by the early buyrate for UFC 101 that the prior show made a tonne of new fans as that level of show wouldn’t have done that pre UFC 100. Anything I’ve written about Brock has ultimately been proven right.

Lets hope Irish MMA promoters have my foresight.