political practicality,what could be closed/sold tomorrow

goldenbrown

I would start with
farmleigh
jennie johnston boat
the ark cultural centre for children
women's council
every embassy outside of europe and the US
photography centre in temple bar

Random

Can we start by cutting TD salarys and expenses and move from there?

Ludo

Random wrote: »

Can we start by cutting TD salarys and expenses and move from there?

Cut number of TDs also...what the hell do we need them all for. And as for the senate....

slippy wicket

Just put a closed sign on all entry points to the country, as we are all buggered.:eek::eek::eek:

mike65

Army Equitation School, Electronic Voting machine storage (just send em to India to be recycled), government jet, all grants to overseas groups (expat Irish immigrant groups etc), of cours all these suggestions would hardly pay for a typical John Donohue overseas jaunt.

tolosenc

Slash dole, privatise healthcare, fire 90% of Public service pen-pushers, reduce number of TDs...

Riskymove

slippy wicket wrote: »

Just put a closed sign on all entry points to the country, as we are all buggered.:eek::eek::eek:

that's the spirit:pac:

goldenbrown

goldenbrown wrote: »

jennie johnston boat

Think the Labour Party might demur, wasn't that Dick's multi million pound gift to the tradesmen of North Kerry?

I'd say if you couldn't sink it now, the sea would reject it.

cyclopath2001

goldenbrown wrote: »

I would start with
farmleigh
jennie johnston boat
the ark cultural centre for children
women's council
every embassy outside of europe and the US
photography centre in temple bar

That's small potatoes. You sell off the roads, rail, buses, water, airports, electricity network, health service, RTE, schools, universities, banks. You close arts, sports, Gaeltacht.

mike65

Tomorrow?

goldenbrown

actually the army equestrian school would move to the top of the close now list,

and a lot of other army projects especially chad

Minister O'Dea has it in the Dail registrar of interests (true, check it) that he has mining investments in Africa, I suppose it would only help business if our expensive militia could keep fuss to a minimum in the area of his investments

goldenbrown

i was in one of our pointless embassies in south america, the chap/consul/ambassador well in cute hoor was running a mail order business from the space rented by our state,

Euro_Kraut

goldenbrown wrote: »

i was in one of our pointless embassies in south america, the chap/consul/ambassador well in cute hoor was running a mail order business from the space rented by our state,

Really? I would let the Dept of Forgien Affairs know.

Have you told them?

spank_inferno

I'd kinda agree with the embassy/consulate closure thing.

AFAIK, when Irish people are in dire straits in countries where we dont an embassy presence the British embassy have provided assistance.

Perhaps closing them and making an agreement with the UK gov for urgent assistance for our citizens might be usefull?

narwog81

spank_inferno wrote: »

I'd kinda agree with the embassy/consulate closure thing.

AFAIK, when Irish people are in dire straits in countries where we dont an embassy presence the British embassy have provided assistance.

Perhaps closing them and making an agreement with the UK gov for urgent assistance for our citizens might be usefull?

why don't we just shut up shop altogether and sell our sovereignty to the highest bidder, that should raise some cash....

not content with underfunding our only means of ensuring our neutrality i.e. the Defence Forces, lets just go the whole hog and close the foreign affairs department and let it be run from a desk in whitehall. or brussels,berlin,wherever will take us...

next we could sell the scraps of our national pride and dignity, who needs an international presence anyway, we're only little and sure we're great craic altogether....

spank_inferno

narwog81 wrote: »

why don't we just shut up shop altogether and sell our sovereignty to the highest bidder, that should raise some cash....

not content with underfunding our only means to ensuring our neutrality i.e. the Defence Forces, lets just go the whole hog and close the foreign affairs department and let it be run from a desk in whitehall. or brussels,berlin,wherever will take us...

next we could sell the scraps of our national pride and dignity, who needs an international presence anyway, we're only little and sure we're great craic altogether....

Thats the spirit!

kraggy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

That's small potatoes. You sell off the roads, rail, buses, water, airports, electricity network, health service, RTE, schools, universities, banks. You close arts, sports, Gaeltacht.

So we can have to pay tolls everywhere we go?

So we can have no bus services servicing rural parts of Ireland that private bus companies wouldn't touch with a barge pole?

So we can have to pay exhorbitant prices for the most important commodity in life?

Sell our main airport so that the new owners can have a monopoly in the capital and increase passenger charges steadily?

Give up the thing that lights our country?

Health- what about those on welfare. How do they fit in?

RTE?! - So an individual can have control over what we see in the news and which adverts are shown on television á la Berlusconi's Italy?

I could go on but there's a valid reason to NOT do each of the things you suggest.

Some services and goods need to stay in government control.

Personally, social welfare, namely Unemployment benefit and assistance need to come down drastically.

But I would concentrate on those who have been signing on the longest. Cut theirs the most, because if you couldn't get a job in Ireland 4 or 5 years ago, you didn't want a job.

cyclopath2001

kraggy wrote: »

Sell our main airport so that the new owners can have a monopoly in the capital and increase passenger charges steadily?

Fianna Fail doesn't care about job losses in Dublin, its votes comes from the morally superior, 'rural Ireland'. So, selling off Dublin Airport makes perfect sense for them

ynotdu

Sell NAMA(to the lowest bidder!)

irish_bob

kraggy wrote: »

So we can have to pay tolls everywhere we go?

So we can have no bus services servicing rural parts of Ireland that private bus companies wouldn't touch with a barge pole?

So we can have to pay exhorbitant prices for the most important commodity in life?

Sell our main airport so that the new owners can have a monopoly in the capital and increase passenger charges steadily?

Give up the thing that lights our country?

Health- what about those on welfare. How do they fit in?

RTE?! - So an individual can have control over what we see in the news and which adverts are shown on television á la Berlusconi's Italy?

I could go on but there's a valid reason to NOT do each of the things you suggest.

Some services and goods need to stay in government control.

Personally, social welfare, namely Unemployment benefit and assistance need to come down drastically.

But I would concentrate on those who have been signing on the longest. Cut theirs the most, because if you couldn't get a job in Ireland 4 or 5 years ago, you didn't want a job.

as i explained on other posts , with the level of wellfare we have in this country , thier is no reason anyone shouldnt be able to afford health insurance , im single and my health insurance with quinn is 700 quid a year , for a husband and wife with four kids , its around 2500 and thier is a generous tax write off , even for those on wellfare , thats only 50 quid a week , most smokers spend that each week on fags


you havent given one valid reason if you ask me

ynotdu

irish_bob wrote: »

as i explained on other posts , with the level of wellfare we have in this country , thier is no reason anyone shouldnt be able to afford health insurance , im single and my health insurance with quinn is 700 quid a year , for a husband and wife with four kids , its around 2500 and thier is a generous tax write off , even for those on wellfare , thats only 50 quid a week , most smokers spend that each week on fags


you havent given one valid reason if you ask me

You say you are single,well in that case if you have the misfortune to become unemployed your weekly benifit would be e204(who knows what after December budget?)

even for people on social welfare you say e50 is affordable?i.e a quater of your income before ANY other outgoings,catch a grip!!!!!

P.S do you know the receipe for turning water into wine?

irish_bob

ynotdu wrote: »

You say you are single,well in that case if you have the misfortune to become unemployed your weekly benifit would be e204(who knows what after December budget?)

even for people on social welfare you say e50 is affordable?i.e a quater of your income before ANY other outgoings,catch a grip!!!!!

P.S do you know the receipe for turning water into wine?

so you think its impossible to find 50 euro a week out of 204 , thier are many on the dole who go to the chipper a few nights a week , have sky sports , as i said earlier , smoke like a train , surely theese things would come to 50 quid a week and are less important than having health insurance , whats so miracolous about that

it would be impossible in northern ireland to afford health insurance but thier dole is a third of ours which is why those on the dole here should be able to afford health insurance in an enviroment where thier existed a functioning health care system , right now , someone would be crazy to have health insurance while on the dole as they get a medical card under the present system and besides , having health insurance offers you little advantage under the present mish mash bastardised system we have in place

what i would like is if we had private hospitals free of political interferance and all that that entails , not being able to fire surplus to requirments due to union uproar or for the simple reason of local politicans loosing votes from the sacked persons family , the present system costs a fortune and increased spending has delivered no improovement other than for the bank accounts of the nurses , doctors and beauracrats plus the politicans who benefit from the votes of theese health workers

Liam Byrne

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Fianna Fail doesn't care about job losses in Dublin, its votes comes from the morally superior, 'rural Ireland'. So, selling off Dublin Airport makes perfect sense for them

That's bull**** for a start.....FF shafted Shannon when Aer Fungus decided to abandon it.....despite being a major shareholder for just such an eventuality, they washed their hands of it and said that they "couldn't interfere with a commercial decision"...

Much the same as they're doing now - having "interfered" with the banking system using our cash, they now "can't interfere" with the "commercial decision" to raise interest rates.

Plus, throw in the fact that Dublin was where the scheister B-B-Bertie was fawned on as if he was a saint instead of a Haughey clone, and you could blame "de Dubs" for half of our woes.

So the first thing I'd close would be Leinster House.....the country would work better without it.

freedom of info

irish_bob wrote: »

as i explained on other posts , with the level of wellfare we have in this country , thier is no reason anyone shouldnt be able to afford health insurance , im single and my health insurance with quinn is 700 quid a year , for a husband and wife with four kids , its around 2500 and thier is a generous tax write off , even for those on wellfare , thats only 50 quid a week , most smokers spend that each week on fags


you havent given one valid reason if you ask me

dole payments 204 euro, rent minimum 24 euro, esb, food, car or public transport,? what would you like, all of us to go out and graze,

my weekly expenditure.
rent inclusive of all household bills 100 euro, entertainment for 2 young kids at weekends 60 euro, public transport 10euro, repayments on a failed business loan 25 euro, ( by special arrangement) it will take 30 years to pay off, 1 pack of cheapo rolly tobacco 8 euro,

people like you live with your heads firmly rammed up your own ring pieces, try living on the scratch before you make uneducated bull sh!t arguments,

irish_bob

freedom of info wrote: »

dole payments 204 euro, rent minimum 24 euro, esb, food, car or public transport,? what would you like, all of us to go out and graze,

my weekly expenditure.
rent inclusive of all household bills 100 euro, entertainment for 2 young kids at weekends 60 euro, public transport 10euro, repayments on a failed business loan 25 euro, ( by special arrangement) it will take 30 years to pay off, 1 pack of cheapo rolly tobacco 8 euro,

people like you live with your heads firmly rammed up your own ring pieces, try living on the scratch before you make uneducated bull sh!t arguments,

your spending 60 euro a week on kids entertainment , what are you doing , bringing them to the cinema several times a week , if your on the dole , the dole isnt for paying off debt or for financing peoples nicotine addiction , oh and regarding your claim that my post is uneducated bull**** , dont confuse opinion with fact , thiers a good lad

freedom of info

irish_bob wrote: »

your spending 60 euro a week on kids entertainment , what are you doing , bringing them to the cinema several times a week , if your on the dole , the dole isnt for paying off debt or for financing peoples nicotine addiction , oh and regarding your claim that my post is uneducated bull**** , dont confuse opinion with fact , thiers a good lad

you obviously dont have kids, when bankrupt you dont have other options, i used to smoke a 100 superkings a day, 1 pack of rolled tobacco is a major improvement, try living in the real world, if ub is cut as you suggest, what happens is this, people use loan sharks, crime goes up, suicide rates go up, what would you like 419000 peoplesitting on o'connell bridge with a polystryrene cup begging for alms, i paid my taxes for 28 years, from the day i left school, why shouldnt i claim a reasonable few bob, and yes your claim is uneducated bull****, if you were forced to live on it you wouldnt talk such crap, maybe with luck, unemployment will befall you

freedom of info

irish_bob wrote: »

your spending 60 euro a week on kids entertainment , what are you doing , bringing them to the cinema several times a week , if your on the dole , the dole isnt for paying off debt or for financing peoples nicotine addiction , oh and regarding your claim that my post is uneducated bull**** , dont confuse opinion with fact , thiers a good lad

also, for 3 tickets to the cinema costs 21 euro, followed by the crap fast food costs an extra 15 euro, try entertaining kids for less, now why dont you be a good lad.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

ninty9er

freedom of info wrote: »

also, for 3 tickets to the cinema costs 21 euro, followed by the crap fast food costs an extra 15 euro, try entertaining kids for less, now why dont you be a good lad.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

A DVD in Xtra Vision costs less than a fiver and a pizza in Aldi is less than €2.

Cop the **** on!

freedom of info

ninty9er wrote: »

A DVD in Xtra Vision costs less than a fiver and a pizza in Aldi is less than €2.

Cop the **** on!

kids get bored in a gaff, neither kids will eat pizza, nor do they eat road kill, this is their one and only treat.

expecting the poorest in society to pay for the cushy lives of others who ruined this country isnothing short of disgusting, most of us are not milking the system, i claim for nothing else, including the course i finished in may, nor medical card, nor rent allowance.

the true freeloaders are the rich who pay less than 5% tax, courtesy of great accountants, a self serving govt, a crap civil service, so go kiss my hairy a

---

e

ninty9er

freedom of info wrote: »

kids get bored in a gaff, neither kids will eat pizza, nor do they eat road kill, this is their one and only treat.

I'm a child of the early 90s...the cinema was something that came once every 6 months...and my parents both worked. Treats don't come weekly they come once in a blue moon. Your lifestyle is not the responsibility of the state.

I don't really give a **** if your kids get bored...they'll just have to deal with it like kids did in the past. I became immune to the phrase "use your imagination" around 1995...maybe the kids of today could gain a lot if they didn't have more than 4 channels, a sega megadrive with 2 games (I was lucky to have it), and lego.

You forget to mention children's allowance which is €38 a week per kid for the first 2 and €47 per child thereafter. So with 2 kids that's €282, plus the €13 increase in the dole per child, so with 2 kids that's a total of €308. Not a whole lot, but more than enough to get by on.

The poorest in society aren't paying for anything, nevermind anyone else's lifestyle.

irish_bob

freedom of info wrote: »

you obviously dont have kids, when bankrupt you dont have other options, i used to smoke a 100 superkings a day, 1 pack of rolled tobacco is a major improvement, try living in the real world, if ub is cut as you suggest, what happens is this, people use loan sharks, crime goes up, suicide rates go up, what would you like 419000 peoplesitting on o'connell bridge with a polystryrene cup begging for alms, i paid my taxes for 28 years, from the day i left school, why shouldnt i claim a reasonable few bob, and yes your claim is uneducated bull****, if you were forced to live on it you wouldnt talk such crap, maybe with luck, unemployment will befall you

im not interested in the nonsensical rantings of some malcontent

ps

are you jamess kimble byrne

irish_bob

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm a child of the early 90s...the cinema was something that came once every 6 months...and my parents both worked. Treats don't come weekly they come once in a blue moon. Your lifestyle is not the responsibility of the state.

I don't really give a **** if your kids get bored...they'll just have to deal with it like kids did in the past. I became immune to the phrase "use your imagination" around 1995...maybe the kids of today could gain a lot if they didn't have more than 4 channels, a sega megadrive with 2 games (I was lucky to have it), and lego.

You forget to mention children's allowance which is €38 a week per kid for the first 2 and €47 per child thereafter. So with 2 kids that's €282, plus the €13 increase in the dole per child, so with 2 kids that's a total of €308. Not a whole lot, but more than enough to get by on.

The poorest in society aren't paying for anything, nevermind anyone else's lifestyle.

too right and if they can afford to go to the cinema every week , thier not really poor , just OFFICALY VULNERABLE

danfoley

spank_inferno wrote: »

I'd kinda agree with the embassy/consulate closure thing.

AFAIK, when Irish people are in dire straits in countries where we dont an embassy presence the British embassy have provided assistance.

Perhaps closing them and making an agreement with the UK gov for urgent assistance for our citizens might be usefull?

To be fair Ireland's foreign service is relatively modest. Most of the embassies are genuinely needed and do a lot more than just assisting Irish backpackers.

Could probably close a few more embassies (South Korea, Singapore, Malaysia) but I'd keep the rest.

Actually Martin did announce he's closing the Welsh consulate a few months back.

Purple Gorilla

TBH I really think that the Utitilies and bare necessities need to stay in government ownership. Companies like ESB, Bord Gáis etc. should be kept in state ownership because they are highly profitable and pay good dividends. Sure, selling them off now would mean a big injection of cash into State coffers, but what happens when we're out of recession and back to normal? We'll have to find more ways to plug the hole that State companies fill. In 2007, ESB paid €127m in dividends to the government and I believe the ESB has never gone to the government for money so why sell it?

Water, Electricity supply, Gas supply etc. should remain in government hands as much as possible. As for healthcare, it should never be privatised. Do people really want to follow the American model where the dollar is paramount and is valued higher than someone's health?

The government will find savings in cutting some fat off the public sector and some other expenses. The dole needs to be cut in line with deflation. Prices fell 2% this month. That figure is excluding interest rates so social welfare should be cut accordingly. Maybe apply cuts to anyone on social welfare for more than 6 months? If they want to receive the same amount of Welfare after 6 months then they have to do a certain amount of community service each week.

irish_bob

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

TBH I really think that the Utitilies and bare necessities need to stay in government ownership. Companies like ESB, Bord Gáis etc. should be kept in state ownership because they are highly profitable and pay good dividends. Sure, selling them off now would mean a big injection of cash into State coffers, but what happens when we're out of recession and back to normal? We'll have to find more ways to plug the hole that State companies fill. In 2007, ESB paid €127m in dividends to the government and I believe the ESB has never gone to the government for money so why sell it?

Water, Electricity supply, Gas supply etc. should remain in government hands as much as possible. As for healthcare, it should never be privatised. Do people really want to follow the American model where the dollar is paramount and is valued higher than someone's health?

The government will find savings in cutting some fat off the public sector and some other expenses. The dole needs to be cut in line with deflation. Prices fell 2% this month. That figure is excluding interest rates so social welfare should be cut accordingly. Maybe apply cuts to anyone on social welfare for more than 6 months? If they want to receive the same amount of Welfare after 6 months then they have to do a certain amount of community service each week.

why would the esb need to go begging to the goverment when they can beggar the people instead to pay thier employees on average 90 k per year , we have the highest electricity costs in europe in this country

dave-higgz

freedom of info wrote: »

kids get bored in a gaff, neither kids will eat pizza, nor do they eat road kill, this is their one and only treat.

expecting the poorest in society to pay for the cushy lives of others who ruined this country isnothing short of disgusting, most of us are not milking the system, i claim for nothing else, including the course i finished in may, nor medical card, nor rent allowance.

the true freeloaders are the rich who pay less than 5% tax, courtesy of great accountants, a self serving govt, a crap civil service, so go kiss my hairy a

---

e

Just go to the Pirate Bay and get all the free cinema movie you want. You obviously have a computer. Sit the kids down at the screen and you could watch 10 movies in a weekend. That'd keep them occupied and it's free.

Purple Gorilla

irish_bob wrote: »

why would the esb need to go begging to the goverment when they can beggar the people instead to pay thier employees on average 90 k per year , we have the highest electricity costs in europe in this country

And that's why it's great that Bord Gáis entered the electricity market. We'll have competition between 2 state-owned companies.

irish_bob

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

And that's why it's great that Bord Gáis entered the electricity market. We'll have competition between 2 state-owned companies.

i myself have taken lucy kennedys advice and switched to bord gais , ive barely noticed the difference in price

Purple Gorilla

irish_bob wrote: »

i myself have taken lucy kennedys advice and switched to bord gais , ive barely noticed the difference in price

Well the difference is there. And didn't Bord Gáis' entry into the electricity market prompt ESB to lower their electricity prices by 10% in May which technically led to upto 24% of electricity prices for those who moved to BGE.

Be patient. It's been what..4? 5 months since BGE entered the electricity market?

freedom of info

ninty9er wrote: »

I'm a child of the early 90s...the cinema was something that came once every 6 months...and my parents both worked. Treats don't come weekly they come once in a blue moon. Your lifestyle is not the responsibility of the state.

I don't really give a **** if your kids get bored...they'll just have to deal with it like kids did in the past. I became immune to the phrase "use your imagination" around 1995...maybe the kids of today could gain a lot if they didn't have more than 4 channels, a sega megadrive with 2 games (I was lucky to have it), and lego.

You forget to mention children's allowance which is €38 a week per kid for the first 2 and €47 per child thereafter. So with 2 kids that's €282, plus the €13 increase in the dole per child, so with 2 kids that's a total of €308. Not a whole lot, but more than enough to get by on.

The poorest in society aren't paying for anything, nevermind anyone else's lifestyle.

you assume i have my kids all week, i have them for weekends only, their mother receives all other allowances for them, and again i workedfor 28years paid all my taxes now that im unemployed why shouldnt i receive a deal, im also diabetic, i dont claimany allowances for that,

there are those who claim for everything, im not one, i did a year long course, of which i could have claimed an allowance of up to 3000 i didnt claim, i receive a total of 204.30 per week, nothing else, and i am eternally grateful to receive it.

if cuts are to made in social welfare, then start by cutting payments to all non eu citizens, then pay social welfare at the same levels paid in all other eu countries to their citizens, abolish rent allowance, for all non irish people, problem solved

ninty9er

freedom of info wrote: »

you assume i have my kids all week, i have them for weekends only, their mother receives all other allowances for them, and again i workedfor 28years paid all my taxes now that im unemployed why shouldnt i receive a deal, im also diabetic, i dont claimany allowances for that,

there are those who claim for everything, im not one, i did a year long course, of which i could have claimed an allowance of up to 3000 i didnt claim, i receive a total of 204.30 per week, nothing else, and i am eternally grateful to receive it.

if cuts are to made in social welfare, then start by cutting payments to all non eu citizens, then pay social welfare at the same levels paid in all other eu countries to their citizens, abolish rent allowance, for all non irish people, problem solved

You should claim everything you are entitled to, I have no problem with that and I think Irish people need to wise up and swallow their pride. In fairness, those who have been working like you have paid for it, but the rate for the dole is simply unsustainable. Whether you have your kids during the week or not is irrelevant, the fact is you can't afford to take them to the cinema, you will be able to when you find work again, in the meantime, you and they will just have to make do with DVDs and supermarket food.

If their mother isn't on the dole you should also be claiming an allowance for each child on your dole payment. You should thank your lucky stars you're getting the full rate, my mother will be waiting until November fot her €160 per week, and no that's not means tested, it's based on her income for the last 3 years, and she's not entitled to claim anything in the meantime. Fair enough her redundancy will just about tide her over til November and my parents didn't overstretch themselves so they can cover the mortgage on one income.

Nobody is going to thank you for not claiming all you're entitled to, but there's no point claiming the €204 isn't enough, when clearly it's bankrupting the state. It's not a one off cost like a recapitalisation, it's infinite and it costing more each year than the banks ever will.

freedom of info

ninty9er wrote: »

You should claim everything you are entitled to, I have no problem with that and I think Irish people need to wise up and swallow their pride. In fairness, those who have been working like you have paid for it, but the rate for the dole is simply unsustainable. Whether you have your kids during the week or not is irrelevant, the fact is you can't afford to take them to the cinema, you will be able to when you find work again, in the meantime, you and they will just have to make do with DVDs and supermarket food.

If their mother isn't on the dole you should also be claiming an allowance for each child on your dole payment. You should thank your lucky stars you're getting the full rate, my mother will be waiting until November fot her €160 per week, and no that's not means tested, it's based on her income for the last 3 years, and she's not entitled to claim anything in the meantime. Fair enough her redundancy will just about tide her over til November and my parents didn't overstretch themselves so they can cover the mortgage on one income.

Nobody is going to thank you for not claiming all you're entitled to, but there's no point claiming the €204 isn't enough, when clearly it's bankrupting the state. It's not a one off cost like a recapitalisation, it's infinite and it costing more each year than the banks ever will.

thank you for reasoned comment, i was beginning to think this was a forum for the friends of fianna fail.

the unfortunate thing about this is my kids will pay the price for our fcuked up country well into adulthood, what most people on this forum dont get is most people on the dole would rather be working, unfortunately the freeloaders in society ( those who wouldnt scratch themselves to keep warm) have ruined the concept of a fair and equal society.

i intend to set up another business as soon as i finish the next level of my course, (horticulture) which i would recommend to anyone, i used to be a van courier, of which the costs exceeded the income limits and got steadily worse, granted, i made a lot of mistakes starting out, i bought a sh!t franchise, a new van,i ran the business with honesty and paid my bills on time, i learned some valuable lessons.

looking at things simply, any future boom will be built on small business not multi nationals, get the unemployed back into a working set up not by cutting the dole but by allowing them to set up small businesses, with as much help and support as is required, that could take the form of mentoring by established successful business people, and i dont mean the super rich, taxes need to be fair all round.

rather than giving multi nationals tax breaks, give those breaks to our own, the myth that we are not competitive needs to be put to bed once and for all, reward those that do the work, cut rates, cut the civil service by 1/3 cut the sheer waste by govt reduce their numbers, tax those who have all the money, the excuse that these guys use is they are not resident, they make their money here pay tax, i could go on all day so i'll stop at that point

irish_bob

freedom of info wrote: »

thank you for reasoned comment, i was beginning to think this was a forum for the friends of fianna fail.

the unfortunate thing about this is my kids will pay the price for our fcuked up country well into adulthood, what most people on this forum dont get is most people on the dole would rather be working, unfortunately the freeloaders in society ( those who wouldnt scratch themselves to keep warm) have ruined the concept of a fair and equal society.

i intend to set up another business as soon as i finish the next level of my course, (horticulture) which i would recommend to anyone, i used to be a van courier, of which the costs exceeded the income limits and got steadily worse, granted, i made a lot of mistakes starting out, i bought a sh!t franchise, a new van,i ran the business with honesty and paid my bills on time, i learned some valuable lessons.

looking at things simply, any future boom will be built on small business not multi nationals, get the unemployed back into a working set up not by cutting the dole but by allowing them to set up small businesses, with as much help and support as is required, that could take the form of mentoring by established successful business people, and i dont mean the super rich, taxes need to be fair all round.

rather than giving multi nationals tax breaks, give those breaks to our own, the myth that we are not competitive needs to be put to bed once and for all, reward those that do the work, cut rates, cut the civil service by 1/3 cut the sheer waste by govt reduce their numbers, tax those who have all the money, the excuse that these guys use is they are not resident, they make their money here pay tax, i could go on all day so i'll stop at that point

fianna fail are those on social wellfares best pal , because fianna fail threw money at everyone one from public servants to those on wellfare , the country is the way it is , that is the reason this country is sufferring more in this global rescession than any other country , we spent too much when we were workin that we couldnt afford to be unemployed

freedom of info

irish_bob wrote: »

fianna fail are those on social wellfares best pal , because fianna fail threw money at everyone one from public servants to those on wellfare , the country is the way it is , that is the reason this country is sufferring more in this global rescession than any other country , we spent too much when we were workin that we couldnt afford to be unemployed

true to a large degree, they also threw vast amounts of money at their cronies the speculator and developer, no questions asked, they spent a fortune on idiotic tribunals, of which no good will come from it, massive bonuses to the likes of brendan drumm,

this global recession could have been tempered had they invested in infrastructure and sought value for money, the state coffers would not have dried up so quickly what annoys me is those who got the greatest gains should take the lions share of the responsibility are still being looked after and protected, while those unemployed and on low wages are been asked to share the burden disproportunately.

we are told that the cost of living has fallen by 5.9%, most of which is the price of clothes, cars and houses,( both sales and rentals) deduct that and the real cost of living has fallen below 3%. i dont know anyone on the dole buying cars or houses.

if we do manage to pull out of recession, then must not make the same mistakes again, some method of price controls must be found, or an excessive profits tax, when a cup of coffee and a sandwich costs nearly a tenner questions should be asked

cheers

irish_bob

freedom of info wrote: »

true to a large degree, they also threw vast amounts of money at their cronies the speculator and developer, no questions asked, they spent a fortune on idiotic tribunals, of which no good will come from it, massive bonuses to the likes of brendan drumm,

this global recession could have been tempered had they invested in infrastructure and sought value for money, the state coffers would not have dried up so quickly what annoys me is those who got the greatest gains should take the lions share of the responsibility are still being looked after and protected, while those unemployed and on low wages are been asked to share the burden disproportunately.

we are told that the cost of living has fallen by 5.9%, most of which is the price of clothes, cars and houses,( both sales and rentals) deduct that and the real cost of living has fallen below 3%. i dont know anyone on the dole buying cars or houses.


basic consumer items are expensive in this country because wages and wellfare are both high , when they both drop so will the price of goods , why , because merchants have to keep thier merchandise at a price which is within thier customers purchasing power
if we do manage to pull out of recession, then must not make the same mistakes again, some method of price controls must be found, or an excessive profits tax, when a cup of coffee and a sandwich costs nearly a tenner questions should be asked

cheers

basic consumer items are expensive in this country because wages and wellfare are both high , when they both drop so will the price of goods , why , because merchants have to keep thier merchandise at a price which is within thier customers purchasing power
if we do manage to pull out of recession, then must not make the same mistakes again, some method of price controls must be found, or an excessive profits tax, when a cup of coffee and a sandwich costs nearly a tenner questions should be asked

kraggy

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Fianna Fail doesn't care about job losses in Dublin, its votes comes from the morally superior, 'rural Ireland'. So, selling off Dublin Airport makes perfect sense for them

It wouldn't make sense for them if they want this country to go down the swanny even more. Giving over control of the main airport in the country, and the only airport in the capital would be a irresponsible manoeuvre.

irish_bob wrote: »

as i explained on other posts , with the level of wellfare we have in this country , thier is no reason anyone shouldnt be able to afford health insurance , im single and my health insurance with quinn is 700 quid a year , for a husband and wife with four kids , its around 2500 and thier is a generous tax write off , even for those on wellfare , thats only 50 quid a week , most smokers spend that each week on fags


you havent given one valid reason if you ask me

Valid reason for what exactly? For privatising healthcare?

If that's the case, and you suggest people should be able to pay for healthcare out of their welfare, then that further cements my argument that welfare should be reduced.

It is far too high. It is providing no incentive to work. It is contributing to crime and to people working jobs unofficially and not paying income tax.

Welfare is not there to pay for all of a person's lifestyle choices. It is not there to pay for trips to the cinema. It is not there to pay for cigarettes. It is not there to pay for nights out.

But unfortunately, it is so high in this country that people choose to spend it on such extravagances.

And it is not there to pay for private healthcare. If a person can manage their money and pay for it, then good and well.

But the level of welfare should not be maintained at a higher than European average to facilitate payment of healthcare.

freedom of info

irish_bob wrote: »

basic consumer items are expensive in this country because wages and wellfare are both high , when they both drop so will the price of goods , why , because merchants have to keep thier merchandise at a price which is within thier customers purchasing power
if we do manage to pull out of recession, then must not make the same mistakes again, some method of price controls must be found, or an excessive profits tax, when a cup of coffee and a sandwich costs nearly a tenner questions should be asked

wages and sw are high because prices are so high, take a cup of coffee, average retail price approx 2.80, here because of the high cost of rates insurance and way over the top profit margins, or the jewellry trade, a piece of low cost jewelry has a profit margin of up to 600% these two areas of employment can never be accused of over paying their staff.

realistically in the boom, directors and shareholders of plcs received huge bonuses and wages, the civil service got benchmarking, of which the lower levels got modest increases while the top got massive increases, surely in a time of doom and gloom those who have had the most benefit should be shouldering the lions share of the cuts.

also why should a multi millionaire receive a medical card? and why should his family receive a free education? while he can avoid paying his fair share of tax.

the real big fish pay no income tax at all, most of them avoid tax by not being resident in the country, what im trying to convey is this if everyone paid their fair share then what real probllems do we have, hitting the weakest will solve nothing, dont get me wrong i have no problem with anyone making a stack of money, but i do have a problem if they made that money on the backs of their staff, while claiming they cant afford to pay them a fair wage, a business is only as good as the people who work in it,

take henry ford snr, a difficult task master, but paid his well, they worked their arses off for him, or rockefella a notorius miser, only paid a ramsom for his grandson under duress, he also had the right idea with employees, reward those that do the work, a level of fairness has to be part of the equation, or we run the risk of a them or us attitude,

sorry for rambling

freedom of info

kraggy wrote: »

It wouldn't make sense for them if they want this country to go down the swanny even more. Giving over control of the main airport in the country, and the only airport in the capital would be a irresponsible manoeuvre.




Valid reason for what exactly? For privatising healthcare?

If that's the case, and you suggest people should be able to pay for healthcare out of their welfare, then that further cements my argument that welfare should be reduced.

It is far too high. It is providing no incentive to work. It is contributing to crime and to people working jobs unofficially and not paying income tax.

Welfare is not there to pay for all of a person's lifestyle choices. It is not there to pay for trips to the cinema. It is not there to pay for cigarettes. It is not there to pay for nights out.

But unfortunately, it is so high in this country that people choose to spend it on such extravagances.

And it is not there to pay for private healthcare. If a person can manage their money and pay for it, then good and well.

But the level of welfare should not be maintained at a higher than European average to facilitate payment of healthcare.

you obviously never signed on, a packet of cigs is sfa, to expect kids to have a truly miserable life shows the type you are, what is your annual salary do you have a gauranteed job for life does mummy tuck you in at night, keeping people in abject poverty to no comforts whatsoever will lead to crime rates never seen before, no incentive to work, what work ?there is fcuk all work out there, take a trip down to fas have a look, most people on the dole are not there out of choice, they are there out of neccesity , ask yourself, do you think anyone who loses their job is jumping for joy

ninty9er

freedom of info wrote: »

you obviously never signed on, a packet of cigs is sfa, to expect kids to have a truly miserable life shows the type you are

Bull****. Money doen't make life any less miserable for kids. If you want to go attacking people implying they are a type, then do it elsewhere. Attack the argument. It's not possible. Parks and playgrounds are free, nobody has defined a trip to the cinema or a dominos as the difference between a miserable childhood and a happy one.

Like I've already stated, your kids' entertainment is nobody's problem but your own. There is plenty to do that costs little or nothing. Sure their friends might have Nike while they have Dunnes, but imagine what that was like before Dunnes ever had any idea that clothes were supposed to be designed.

I have NEVER in my life paid €2.80 for a cup of coffee...the average price of a cup of coffee is about €2 not €2.80, and what the hell is someone on the dole doing buying coffee in café's in such large amounts that it becomes a burden.
Wake up and smell the em...coffee!

Wages are not high because of prices, it is the other way around!

kraggy

freedom of info wrote: »

you obviously never signed on, a packet of cigs is sfa, to expect kids to have a truly miserable life shows the type you are, what is your annual salary do you have a gauranteed job for life does mummy tuck you in at night, keeping people in abject poverty to no comforts whatsoever will lead to crime rates never seen before, no incentive to work, what work ?there is fcuk all work out there, take a trip down to fas have a look, most people on the dole are not there out of choice, they are there out of neccesity , ask yourself, do you think anyone who loses their job is jumping for joy

Despite your reactive, immature post, I'll reply to it anyway.

Firstly, yes I have signed on. I know what it's like. I also know that I could have lived on less money than I was receiving.

Secondly, a pack of smokes on their own is only 4% of a weekly unemployment benefit payment (or in your own eloquent words "Sfa") but a pack a day each day for 7 days amounts to a not-so-sfa 30% of the weekly payment. I smoke myself, BUT WHY SHOULD THE GOVERNMENT PAY FOR MY HABIT?

Thirdly, who said anything about giving children a miserable life? I had damn all when I was a kid but I didn't turn to crime. I used my imagination, played soccer and hurling outside on the street with the neighbours. They didn't turn to crime either.

Also, no my mammy doesn't tuck me in at night. And no I don't have a guaranteed job for life. I'm not working at the moment actually. Not that it's any of your business.

And where exactly did I say that people should have no comforts whatsoever? Did I say that? No I didn't. Maybe if some people on the dole didn't spend 30% (or more) of their dole on cigarettes, maybe even more on booze/drugs/gambling, then said people would have more to spend on comforts for their children.

Regardless, the State is not here to provide gifts and good times for people who are unemployed. They are here to provide subsistence; financial help to pay for food, bills etc. Not to buy Beyonce a trip to Disneyland.

Yes, there are people struggling and most are not abusing the system. But Unemployment payments have to come down. And down they'll come. The cost of living is coming down and so should the dole.

And as I've said already, people on the dole for 3 years and more should be hit the most. They more than likely could have gained employment back then if they wanted to. It is having provided no incentive to work when there was plenty of work available that is part of the reason why our balance sheet is looking so atrocious right now.

I'll end by asking a question. How do you suppose people in other European countries manage when they receive unemployment benefit/assistance which in some cases is less than half of ours with a similar cost of living?

freedom of info

ninty9er wrote: »

Bull****. Money doen't make life any less miserable for kids. If you want to go attacking people implying they are a type, then do it elsewhere. Attack the argument. It's not possible. Parks and playgrounds are free, nobody has defined a trip to the cinema or a dominos as the difference between a miserable childhood and a happy one.

Like I've already stated, your kids' entertainment is nobody's problem but your own. There is plenty to do that costs little or nothing. Sure their friends might have Nike while they have Dunnes, but imagine what that was like before Dunnes ever had any idea that clothes were supposed to be designed.

I have NEVER in my life paid €2.80 for a cup of coffee...the average price of a cup of coffee is about €2 not €2.80, and what the hell is someone on the dole doing buying coffee in café's in such large amounts that it becomes a burden.
Wake up and smell the em...coffee!

Wages are not high because of prices, it is the other way around!

never said i bought coffee, i do look at prices, kids dont wear nikes either they wear dunnes or pennys, when i need clothes i shop in charity shops, surprised, i also gave up driving icouldnt afford it, the pc i use is a little acer aspire one, given to me as a birthday present, so please get the rose tinted glasses off, and the clothes in dunnes were better in the 80's, the only reason i have any quality oflife is because im frugal, i grow most of my veg as well, i also play football with my boy and as for playstations they might have one in their mothers, again i do not enjoy being on the dole, there is piss all work out there, what jobs that are out there, im not qualified to do, or physically be able to do