Are there any old orange CIE locomotives left?

me_right_one

Are there any old orange CIE locomotives left? I've noticed a marked decline in them recently. Did anyone see any around the country? If so, where?

Judgement Day

me_right_one wrote: »

Are there any old orange CIE locomotives left? I've noticed a marked decline in them recently. Did anyone see any around the country? If so, where?

You're on the wrong site for that sort of info - try http://www.irishrailwaynews.com/ a dribblers paradise!

IIMII

Judgement Day is right. But I did see one a few weeks ago in Navan

Zoney

Limerick station has some older locomotives that haven't been repainted (out at the works - the new railcars are parked closer to the station).

I think some of the ordinary locomotives used for intercity, the 201 class, are still in orange too.

Cookie_Monster

I'm all for progress on our railways and all that but there is just something cool about a loco rather than plastic fantastic DMU/EMUs.

Hopefully they'll always keep a few lying around for general usage, weed trains, permenant way that kind of thing

corktina

apart from some examples preserved the 001,201 and 121 classes are all gone.The 141/181 classes have a handful of members left , mainly on works trains and shunting and the 071 class is still complete I beleive being employed on the few remaining freight turns and as standby locos for the 201 class.Im not sure if they have any regular passenger turns left at this stage, very few anyway.

sorry to have dribbled all over this thread...

KC61

There are approximately 10 of the small GM locos left in service, with the rest all scrapped/withdrawn.

The larger 071 class (introduced in the 1970s) are still all in service (18 in total) on freight and permanent way trains, and are being repainted in black/silver livery.

There are also 10 of the far newer 201 class in storage now (those not fitted with push/pull equipment), reflecting the change in the nature of Irish railways.

As far as "dribbling" is concerned I think everyone is entitled to their interests in life...

The info above comes from wikipedia!

Cookie_Monster

KC61 wrote: »

There are approximately 10 of the small GM locos left in service, with the rest all scrapped/withdrawn.

I wonder if they'd give me one if I asked nicely:D

KC61 wrote: »

The larger 071 class (introduced in the 1970s) are still all in service (18 in total) on freight and permanent way trains, and are being repainted in black/silver livery.

Boo, the vomit orange is much better colour

KC61 wrote: »

There are also 10 of the far newer 201 class in storage now (those not fitted with push/pull equipment), reflecting the change in the nature of Irish railways.

Boo again, it really seems cray that such new locos are already being withdrawn. Effectivly knowing IR track record these locos will never see the light of day again.

Judgement Day

KC61 wrote: »

There are approximately 10 of the small GM locos left in service, with the rest all scrapped/withdrawn.

The larger 071 class (introduced in the 1970s) are still all in service (18 in total) on freight and permanent way trains, and are being repainted in black/silver livery.

There are also 10 of the far newer 201 class in storage now (those not fitted with push/pull equipment), reflecting the change in the nature of Irish railways.

As far as "dribbling" is concerned I think everyone is entitled to their interests in life...

The info above comes from wikipedia!

It was a throwaway remark - lighten up!

KC61

Judgement Day wrote: »

It was a throwaway remark - lighten up!

No worries - just expressing the thought that thankfully we all do have diverse interests - it makes the world a far better place!

Cookie_Monster

Horray!

me_right_one

Where abouts on Sesame St. is that cookie monster?

Cookie_Monster

me_right_one wrote: »

Where abouts on Sesame St. is that cookie monster?

Down at the end where all the junkies and that thing in the trash can hang out
:pac:

me_right_one

Ah go on, where is it? They're hard to find!

corktina

KC61 wrote: »

There are also 10 of the far newer 201 class in storage now (those not fitted with push/pull equipment), reflecting the change in the nature of Irish railways.

that I didnt know....it makes sense though as they are way too large and heavy for the job they are doing and the p way is in dreadful state Im told as a result. They were a bad buy (with hindsight) and should be replaced with a fleet of much lighter power cars two to a train set á lá HST in the UK or pendolino type units if IE can get away with getting rid of the "mk4" coaches in use now on the Cork line (horrible bouncy things that they are...)

Judgement Day

If the 201s were a bad buy, which I dispute, the same lunatics are still running the asylum so why should they be trusted to get any future decisions right?

me_right_one

This is a probably stupid question, but whats a "permanent way"?

corktina

why do you dispute it?

they are basically a freight loco but are re-geared for 100mph running which means you have a heavy 6 axle machine whereas a HST power car is a light 4 axle machine. a heavy machine with rigid 6 wheel bogies runing at high speed (not often 100 mph I grant you...) can do nothing but damage to the permanent way.

I would guess if you asked the Drivers and the P Way guys, theyd say they prefer the much older 071 class which did the same job previously.

corktina

me_right_one wrote: »

This is a probably stupid question, but whats a "permanent way"?

sorry...dribbling a bit too much ...its the Track....

Cookie_Monster

me_right_one wrote: »

This is a probably stupid question, but whats a "permanent way"?

The railway as such. A permanent way train is one that repairs track or clears obstructions, general maintainence, cuts the grass that kind of thing.

me_right_one

Ah I see. Thx Corktina and Cookie Monster

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

If the 201s were a bad buy, which I dispute, the same lunatics are still running the asylum so why should they be trusted to get any future decisions right?

They are too heavy for much of the network and do damage to the bits they are allowed on due to the axle load of the loco. Seems like a bad buy for me.

Bear in mind they also paid to fly one into the country as PR, the cost of which would have bought another loco:rolleyes:

me_right_one

So is there none at all left pulling passenger cars? I know the Dublin - Galway was until recently.....

me_right_one

And does anyone know a friend-of-a-friend (ahem) who might let an ordinary person into the cab for a drive?

SeanW

The modern 201 class locomotive is very heavy and has a Co-Co (6 wheels on each bogie, 2 X (3 X 2)) wheel layout and a tendancy for wheelslips, all of which mean that they are very hard on the tracks. The 22000 class DMU can do much the same speed as 201-hauled/pushed trains but with a Bo-Bo wheel layout (8 wheels total, 2 X 2 X 2) and as such should cause much less wear and tear on the track while providing the same quality of service.

As for the Mk4s, it's not so much that they're bad carriages, but they're not designed for Irish track, and specifically not designed for the UIC54 grade of track. Currently, the Dublin to Cork line is being relaid, rumours strongly suggest it's being relaid to the high quality UIC60 grade, and that travelling over the new stuff versus the old in the CAF carriages is like night and day.

shamwari

SeanW wrote: »

....rumours strongly suggest it's being relaid to the high quality UIC60 grade, and that travelling over the new stuff versus the old in the CAF carriages is like night and day.

Nice one. At last we might get true 100mph running which is what this machinery is supposed to be capable of. As an aside, if you look on RTE's news page on the web, theres an audio stream called "Shaky Trains" which explains why "passenger comfort issues have prompted Iarnród Éireann to repair a number of train carriages"

Judgement Day

me_right_one wrote: »

And does anyone know a friend-of-a-friend (ahem) who might let an ordinary person into the cab for a drive?

Those days are largely gone the way of the Dodo. In the good old days, if one was in favour with some at Connolly, it was possible to get one of these - MEMOIRS 016.JPG but there's nothing left to see from the footplate anymore anyway.

corktina

i dont know about that..Ive only done it once, in the UK from Reading to Birnmingham and back and it was quite a thrill (OK im dribbling ,I know, I dont care)

For the technically minded, that loco had one of its 6 traction motors isolated and still we blasted along between Birm International and Coventry at touching 100mph (indicated, max permitted speed 95 for that loco!). My pal the Driver was putting on a show for me I think,safely far from home...:cool:

it was 47074 for any spotters online and dribbling.

SeanW

shamwari wrote: »

Nice one. At last we might get true 100mph running which is what this machinery is supposed to be capable of. As an aside, if you look on RTE's news page on the web, theres an audio stream called "Shaky Trains" which explains why "passenger comfort issues have prompted Iarnród Éireann to repair a number of train carriages"

Well, it gets complicated but the problem isn't to do with the coaches, in as much as the coaches are operating according to their design specifications (i.e. the coaches don't seem to have been designed for worn-out low spec track unline the BREL Mark carriages and to a lesser extent the 22000s and the non 29k commuters).

So it's not really a question of "repairing" the coaches, more of getting the finger out and getting on the with Dublin-Cork track relay.

Judgement Day

Would it not be cheaper to buy some more tin cans - sorry 22000s - and scrap the MarkIVs and 201s? Why should passengers on Dublin/Cork trains have 'theoretically' better rolling stock than the rest of the country?

L1011

Aren't the 22000s slower than the Mk4/201 combo's theorethical max speed? Reduce the speed to Cork any further and the bus companies will muller the rail market share.

Sponge Bob

Ah yes, IE must have noticed the 'express bus' problem then .

Cool Mo D

According to Wikipedia, the new intercity trains can do 100 mph, and the mk4's have a theoretical max of 125 mph, although I believe they need a faster loco and some other minor mods to do this? Not sure.

Anyway, sustained speeds of 100 mph would be enough to do Dublin - Cork in under 2 hours with a few stops, so it's pretty clear that the track needs sorted, not the trains.

Judgement Day

To paraphrase Monty Python "CIE wouldn't notice anything if you put four thousand volts through them! They are bleedin' demised!"

Zoney

After hellish journeys on commuter railcars all the way from Limerick to Dublin I was very skeptical about the regional railcars (22000s) when they were first mooted and indeed right up until they were in use. However, they're fairly pleasant and comfortable (not as good seats/ride as Mk3 but more sensible temperature) and the power sockets are very handy (being able to use the laptop on the train is one of its advantages over other modes of transport). Ironically given my past skepticism about railcars, I don't much like the "Mark 4s" (although that is slightly clouded by the fact that I would be on them after changing at Limerick Junction and the train from Cork is often crowded).

I certainly hope that Dublin-Cork track is improved - as not only is it pretty much the most important route in the country, it also facilitates Limerick trains and to a lesser extent Galway too.

highlydebased

Zoney wrote: »

After hellish journeys on commuter railcars all the way from Limerick to Dublin I was very skeptical about the regional railcars (22000s) when they were first mooted and indeed right up until they were in use. However, they're fairly pleasant and comfortable (not as good seats/ride as Mk3 but more sensible temperature) and the power sockets are very handy (being able to use the laptop on the train is one of its advantages over other modes of transport). Ironically given my past skepticism about railcars, I don't much like the "Mark 4s" (although that is slightly clouded by the fact that I would be on them after changing at Limerick Junction and the train from Cork is often crowded).

I certainly hope that Dublin-Cork track is improved - as not only is it pretty much the most important route in the country, it also facilitates Limerick trains and to a lesser extent Galway too.

+1 to all of that!

What I dont like is the 2x3 22000 sets (or 3 sets) Limerick-Dublin.

KC61

Orange locos taken back in May:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30196469&l=cf26d14e89&id=1286778423

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30196464&l=784289dd01&id=1286778423

KC61 wrote: »

There are also 10 of the far newer 201 class in storage now (those not fitted with push/pull equipment), reflecting the change in the nature of Irish railways.

I never got round to updating the Wikipedia article but 214 is still in service, it was stopped for a while in July but it came back out. Currently in Ballina coupled up to 082, both locos failed to start recently. 152 is supposed to be bringing them back to Inchicore.

Cool Mo D wrote: »

According to Wikipedia, the new intercity trains can do 100 mph, and the mk4's have a theoretical max of 125 mph, although I believe they need a faster loco and some other minor mods to do this? Not sure.

That's true. The Mk4s will do 125mph with a brake modification, installation of an additional disc as far as I know. The Mk3s are also capable of 125 but we never had a loco (or track) that could do it.

corktina

did any of the Mk3's get sold yet or are they all stored (or worse)

me_right_one

Are there any preserved?

Captain Darling

corktina wrote: »

why do you dispute it?

they are basically a freight loco but are re-geared for 100mph running which means you have a heavy 6 axle machine whereas a HST power car is a light 4 axle machine. a heavy machine with rigid 6 wheel bogies runing at high speed (not often 100 mph I grant you...) can do nothing but damage to the permanent way.

I would guess if you asked the Drivers and the P Way guys, theyd say they prefer the much older 071 class which did the same job previously.

Anecdotally the PW have said that the ICR's cause a lot less wear and tear on the tracks then the 201's.

As for the orange loco's, you'll see plenty of them in Ballina (071's) hauling the norfolk liner and timber trains.

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Effectivly knowing IR track record these locos will never see the light of day again.

Track record as in ripping up track

Judgement Day wrote: »

Would it not be cheaper to buy some more tin cans - sorry 22000s - and scrap the MarkIVs and 201s? Why should passengers on Dublin/Cork trains have 'theoretically' better rolling stock than the rest of the country?

It would be very foolish if CIE put all their eggs in one basket again. Previous lessons should have been learned from disasters such as the Metrovics fitted with their original UK built Crosley engines, something that cost them millions and years of downtime, also the more recent CAF 8200 Spanish built Darts and 201's which were designed as an iron ore hauling freight locomotive for the Australian market. .

trad

Sorry to hear about the demise of the 201's. I was lucky enough to be involved in the delivery of the first 201 that was flown into Dublin in an Antonov AN124, some sight a locomotive inside an aeroplane.

My old man was a loco inspector and he reckoned they were a heap from day 1.

I have a sweat shirt somewhere that my dad got off the Canadians with a 201 on it

Run_to_da_hills

On a different note, I was disgusted to see the kingstown Special hauling Mark 1's in non period orange the other day.


Not the same loco but gives you the idea.

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

On a different note, I was disgusted to see the kingstown Special hauling Mark 1's in non period orange the other day.


Not the same loco but gives you the idea.

Nice pic, where that from & what the loco?

Missed out on ticket for the Kingston Special run. What loco was it, small brown one with no articlulted tender again? Last time I saw it run (sometime last summer) it had the old dark red/brown coaches on it.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

Those days are largely gone the way of the Dodo. In the good old days, if one was in favour with some at Connolly, it was possible to get one of these - MEMOIRS 016.JPG but there's nothing left to see from the footplate anymore anyway.

I love the pic: Reason "favour", so Irish:D

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Nice pic, where that from & what the loco?

Missed out on ticket for the Kingston Special run. What loco was it, small brown one with no articlulted tender again? Last time I saw it run (sometime last summer) it had the old dark red/brown coaches on it.

Not Dunlaoghaire line, looks like Mullingar as there is no ugly dart pylons, (Another reason IR should reserve the WRC for vintage and classic tourist traffic). The loco on that particular Dunlaoghaire run was No 4, a larger WT Class 2-6-4 configuration. I missed that run myself but chased after it on my bike to get best viewing points along the route. Worth while keeping in touch with the RPSI to find out scheduals and bookings.

Euro_Kraut

There's a couple left in Tehran it seems: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/iran-on-track-with-help-of-irish-rail-1767781.html :pac:

Cookie_Monster

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

There's a couple left in Tehran it seems: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/iran-on-track-with-help-of-irish-rail-1767781.html :pac:

Its just a stolen picture, someone on here posted up the original picture a while ago can't remember where bouts it was though.

EDIT: 2000th post, woohoo.

me_right_one

Do the RPSI have any GM loco's or MK2/3's?

Run_to_da_hills

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

There's a couple left in Tehran it seems: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/iran-on-track-with-help-of-irish-rail-1767781.html :pac:

Just shows you how good a locomotive they were, if he depicted a 201 or 22000 he wouldn't have got back into power.

me_right_one

me_right_one wrote: »

Do the RPSI have any GM loco's or MK2/3's?

They have Mk2s but they're ex BR rather than ex CIE. They use a converted CIE "Dutch" van to power them. No GM locos but the ITG are preparing to move 124 to the West Clare Railway.