Our Mental Health.

Novella

Ok, so clearly I spend a lot of time in PI and up late at night debating the ways of the world but something that has struck me over the last while is the sheer amount of people suffering with all kinds of different mental health issues.

A recent World Health Organisation fact sheet reports that in Europe, one in five people will develop a depressive episode during their lifetime and depression is a condition which is now increasingly affecting adolescents.

Also, I read in a newspaper about something which really got me thinking, "recession depression". I know that everyone is sick of hearing the r word, but every 1% rise in unemployment leads to a 0.76% rise in suicide, according to a study carried out by Oxford University, and people who are unemployed are two to three times more likely to attempt to commit suicide, even having no prior mental health problems.

In Ireland alone, a survey carried out by the HSE found that 11% of people said that they had personally experienced a mental health problem, with 23% saying that they have cared for, or are a relative of someone who has suffered.

However, what really got me thinking was the fact that six out of ten adults surveyed would not want anyone to know that they had a metal health problem and shockingly (to me, anyway) the same proportion believe that anyone suffering should not do a job of importance. One third of those surveyed suggest that people affected by a mental health problem are themselves to blame.

So I guess my questions are, do you still think that there is a stigma attached to mental health in this country?

What are your thoughts on the issue etc?

Mods, I realise that this is a touchy subject to feel free to move / delete as appropriate.

Also, seen as no medical advice can be expressed for anyone suffering or who thinks that they may be, http://www.samaritans.org/

Nervous Wreck

Course there's a stigma attached. Irish people are notoriously conceited proud when it comes to things like that. Everyone wants to be (socially) top-dawg (which is why social networking sites are so popular here-LOOK AT MY PHOTOS!!!!). Irish people are also generally quite embarrassed by anything to do with emotion (men anyway) so admitting to being depressed is like admitting that yer best mate shtiffed yer mam or something, which is prob why so many stay quiet.


However, though there is obviously gonna be a correlation between the unemployment and depression rates, saying that "every 1% rise in unemployment leads to a 0.76% rise in suicide" is baloney. The figures don't just 'work out' like that.


Also, and not to sound insensitive here but, what's the big problem getting sad sometimes? People get really melodramatic when it comes to negative emotions and act like having a bit of a cry means you're gonna kill yerself. I dunno, I'm rambling and I'm not even sure what I'm typing, such is the effect of this god-awful hangover.... Apologies for the trail-off.........

Novella

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Also, and not to sound insensitive here but, what's the big problem getting sad sometimes?

Getting sad sometimes is not the same as being depressed all the time! But yeah, know what you mean about the melodramatics.

Nervous Wreck

Novella wrote: »

Getting sad sometimes is not the same as being depressed all the time! But yeah, know what you mean about the melodramatics.

Sorry yeah, that's what I meant there. Getting sad sometimes is perfectly normal but people do get a little dramatic about it which is really annoying cos it undermines the severity of actual depression. "I'm sooooooooooooo depressed." Have a mint and fug off ye tulip!

mehmeh12

Yeh i know a guy whose cousin has been diagnosed as being bi polar. The doctor said she realistically could not be employed in a high stress level job. But what jobs are non stressful?

Mental illness is definitely stigmatized in this country. Once people in her school heard she was hospitalized for 'odd behavior' most people just jilted her. Poor girl .

Snowie

I agree especially being unemployed, it can really make
you go inwards and to a degree hide away from society... Feel very low, lonely and not much going on in your life plus with the High levels of dept could possibly be a huge weight on some peoples shoulders who are also unemployed, I can imagine in some ways its a very scary time.
The thing about mental health illness's.
Theres so many, but take depression.
Most people don't even know what depression is, they think its when your feeling glum, and low. They don't really understand where it stems from.
because they don't have it.
I think it depends really on the level of knowledge to the people around you.

sam34

i should declare my hand from the start - i'm a psychiatrist.

there is such a huge stigma against any mental illness, but particularly depression.

as others above have alluded to, i think that some confusion and misperception arises because of overuse, and misuse, of the word "depression".

it has crept into common parlance, and is used to mean anything from being fed-up, annoyed, frustrated, sad to hurt, bitter, dissatisfied etc.

when people say "im depressed", other people tend to take that at face value and assume that what the other person is experiencing is, in fact, clinical depression, when often nothing could be further from the truth.

it puzzles me a bit that this happens, i mean, when someone says "i nearly had a heart attack when i saw..." or "i had a stroke when i heard..." or "the match gave me heart failure.." we dont take them literally, so why do we take "im depressed" so literally?


i see this stigma every day at work.
people dont want to be admitted to the psych ward "what would the neighbours say?", they dont want to be sitting in the waiting room at clinic in case someone they know sees them.
i have once seen the parents of a newly diagnosed schizophrenic man argue about which side of the family he inherited it from "there was never any madness on my side, he must have gotten it from your crowd" etc.

this stigma is something that prevents a lot of people from seeking help, and from sticking with help.
ive had people tell me thay cant continue to take tablets because their mother/brother/partner doesnt agree with them.

ultimately, this stigma contributes to our shockingly high suicide rate.

there is so much ignorance and misunderstanding out there about mental illness, it's dumbfounding at times.

there's a lot of it right here on boards too. i often see posts that imply that those with mental illnesses are weak/lazy/inadequate/dangerous/odd/unreliable etc etc etc

Fugly

I think there is and realistically will always be a stigma, I'm a girl and "open" with my feelings to my f&f's, but in reality just because I show them the whole spectrum, they do see me at nearly every stage, I never let them see me when I'm medically depressed.

Most would be suprised as with as I call them my "normal" or socially acceptable emotions they'll know, They've seen me sad or "depressed" but they wouldn't realise that I bottle/hide my more "medical depression" as much as a man who is also medically depressed and bottles up eveything. I think due to me sharing some emotion rather than a male who shares none they'd be less likely to regard me as being depressed.

I hide my depression from everyone, bar doctors. I say it's because like the rest of my medical info it's none of their business. I know there's no shame in my mental illness, I know I sure as hell didn't ask for it and the majority of the time I know it's not me throwing myself a pity party, but I also know that I will, by some people be treated very differently.

Yes they're opinions are ill-informed and imo wrong, but they could still affect my life. There are also a lot of myths, I can deal with high pressure/stress in an academic/professional capacity, hell they're the times I live for, but that's me I have different triggers and luckily I can keep it from impacting my college work. Some can, some can't it depends on the person not the label.

On a social side, in my college group of friends I know a handful of ppl who suffer from depression, everyone is understanding and supporting, but I still wouldn't come out with my depression as they will view me differently. And these are ppl who could be described as not attaching stigma, they're nice people, but even in that scenario I wouldn't be that open.

I don't tell my family as there have been several friends of the family who due to depression have had miserable lives, despite having support and understanding. They've earned degrees/got married/had kids but never able to "hack it in the real world", can't handle the stress of work, lose their job/partner/children because ot it. And I wouldn't want to worry them, that this could happen to me.

It could be ego that makes me keep it to myself, but I feel less vunerable, I've lost contact with friends when I'm very down and not bothered with the world, and I'd honestly have let them and would rather them believe I'm a stuck up cow with no time to maintain friendships than be honest and forever pitied and looked upon as "weak".

RealEstateKing

is majorly biased towards being sociable, outgoing, "up for the crack" , and light-hearted and up for a party, this is the public face that is expected here. Fail to show it and you risk being considered a "dry ****e".

However, in Ireland, a large number of people are unhappy a lot of the time, for many different reasons: The weather is execrable, we drink far too much, we are still more Catholic than we'd like to admit and we are a small country with a large gap between what advertising and the media tell you is possible in life, and what is actually possible in your life.

We are saturated with a U.S. based media culture which sets our expectations of life far higher than what is actually possible for people living in a small country on the fringes of Europe: Very few of us are going to have a swimming pool in our back garden, a girl/boy-friend that looks like Paris Hilton/Brad Pitt, or any of the rest of the things we supposed to aspire to, which are illusory if you live in Florida, but downright fantastical if you live here.

This has created an enormous amount of unhappiness in Irish people over the past few years. Coupled with this is the fact that as a nation, we are actually very emotionally repressed, but we like to think of ourselves as wild and free (Which is not helped by the fact that other nations seem to like to beleive this too).

Most strong emotion in Ireland is expressed under the influence of large amounts of booze and then forgotten about the next day. We seem to have orientated our culture so that the only time it is possible for people to truly let their emotions out (whether positive or negative) is when they are four sheets to the wind. Then they wake up the next day feeling terrible , and all is buried by Monday.

As a result of booze being the fulcrum of the Irish soul, many Irish people's emotional development stops at 16 when they first start drinking regularly, and doesnt continue till they have a breakdown in their 30s. This is of course made worse by the cultural refusal of Irish people to recognise problem drinking when they see it: What would be cause for concern anywhere else is simply being one of the lads here.

Snowie

to be fair I think it depends on the friends to some degree will turn there noise up at you or say stupid things like "its all in your head"

well thanks for stating the obvious but i have trouble working things out and im prepared to pay good money and put my effort in to fix these problems was my answer. to which i got a shrug, the way I see it is some people are just plain ignorant and think they no whats best for other people, because they can control what they feel how there mind set is and generally how great they are because they've got the job/house/gf and for some reason are superior ?

which i think is a case that its more so oh depression makes you look week my advice is better for you because look how great my lifes going. I really dunno I just think some people are just bone headed rude and don't know how to understand. others.

But then from Others I've had nothing but support and understanding of my true friends which to a degree is a very over whelming feeling when you low and I'm very great full for them as friends.

pookie82

RealEstateKing wrote: »

is majorly biased towards being sociable, outgoing, "up for the crack" , and light-hearted and up for a party, this is the public face that is expected here. Fail to show it and you risk being considered a "dry ****e".

However, in Ireland, a large number of people are unhappy a lot of the time, for many different reasons: The weather is execrable, we drink far too much, we are still more Catholic than we'd like to admit and we are a small country with a large gap between what advertising and the media tell you is possible in life, and what is actually possible in your life.

We are saturated with a U.S. based media culture which sets our expectations of life far higher than what is actually possible for people living in a small country on the fringes of Europe: Very few of us are going to have a swimming pool in our back garden, a girl/boy-friend that looks like Paris Hilton/Brad Pitt, or any of the rest of the things we supposed to aspire to, which are illusory if you live in Florida, but downright fantastical if you live here.

This has created an enormous amount of unhappiness in Irish people over the past few years. Coupled with this is the fact that as a nation, we are actually very emotionally repressed, but we like to think of ourselves as wild and free (Which is not helped by the fact that other nations seem to like to beleive this too).

Most strong emotion in Ireland is expressed under the influence of large amounts of booze and then forgotten about the next day. We seem to have orientated our culture so that the only time it is possible for people to truly let their emotions out (whether positive or negative) is when they are four sheets to the wind. Then they wake up the next day feeling terrible , and all is buried by Monday.

As a result of booze being the fulcrum of the Irish soul, many Irish people's emotional development stops at 16 when they first start drinking regularly, and doesnt continue till they have a breakdown in their 30s. This is of course made worse by the cultural refusal of Irish people to recognise problem drinking when they see it: What would be cause for concern anywhere else is simply being one of the lads here.

This is an awesome post. I think you hit a great many nails on the head there.

EastWallGirl

RealEstateKing

Fantastic post, you put it very well.

pikachucheeks

Novella wrote: »

So I guess my questions are, do you still think that there is a stigma attached to mental health in this country?

What are your thoughts on the issue etc?

Mods, I realise that this is a touchy subject to feel free to move / delete as appropriate.

Also, seen as no medical advice can be expressed for anyone suffering or who thinks that they may be, http://www.samaritans.org/

I definitely think there's still a stigma attached to mental health in Ireland. I think that's part of the reason there's so many people suffering in silence, feeling completely and utterly helpless, which I find incredibly sad.

For some reason, mental health isn't seen as being as important, if not more important, than physical health. There seems to be this sweeping notion that if you're depressed or in dark bad place, you're crazy, rather than just someone in need of help.

I think Ireland needs a major re-think on how mental health is viewed - and educated to people. I think people need to be made aware of mental health and how to take care of themselves from a younger age. I think this could break down many taboos and misconceptions.

kumate_champ07

EastWallGirl wrote: »

RealEstateKing

Fantastic post, you put it very well.

except for the paris hilton part

Wibbs

It's a real problem alright and seems to be growing. Actually what is the lowdown on growth or not of mental illness, in particular depression and similar? Is it actually growing, or is it diagnosed more. Or is the range for "normal" narrowed? From what I can see the medicalisation of some emotional responses seems very OTT. Not here in Ireland, but the stats for the US are shocking. The amount of people that are on medication or in the care of a mental health professional seems excessive.

If the incidence is actually growing, then the question has to be why. Is it societal pressures that activate a genetic propensity for the condition? So a propensity for the condition is triggered by an emotional/mind reaction, that then rewires the brain after a while, to the degree that an emotional/mind reaction can't repair it? It does seem some societies have less of it than others, EG smaller close knit communities with more social and emotional outlets, better diets/exercise(sunlight seems to be a factor too*). If so are there changes that could be made to prevent or reduce it?

I would agree that aspirational societies with oft impossible standards to live up to and fewer outlets to express emotional pain(as RealEstateKing pointed out) are bound to have more of these conditions. While we're constantly evolving and have done more in the last 10,000 years than we did in the previous 100,000, much of our social brain is suited to a small village mentality. Maybe those more affected by mental illness and social phobia type illnesses are a holdover from that?

Then there's the treatment end. Both the simple access to treatment that may be lacking(especially in Ireland) and the treatment(s) itself. From what I can see is that there has been some good progress on the drug front in the last 20 years, but the same drugs can bring their own issues. I kinda see it as similar in some ways to cancer as a disease. In the past treatments had limited success and the therapies were often brutal. Now there are many cancers that can be cured, or more to the point people can be treated so they live with it for far longer, but like mental illness there is some way to go. Again like cancer I don't think we'll ever "cure" mental illness as it's not one disease/condition but many.

I would love to see research that aims to find out if there exists ways to prevent some mental illness as like many cancers prevention is better than cure. Horribly stretched analogy. :D

I presume it's like most conditions, the earlier it's diagnosed and treated appropriately, the better the outcome? So if we can spot vulnerable groups and monitor them and pre treat them(not necessarily with medications), would it be possible to head off some of the spectrum of conditions? So if there was a genetic component for say alcoholism or drug abuse, then early education of those with that component would probably help reduce the numbers.

The stigma is a hard one. To some degree or other every society has a stigma, or at least labels mental illness as something that stands out. Even those who considered such people to be "touched by God". It's a dreadful condition that strikes at the very heart of what it is to be a person and that's scary. For both the person affected and those around them. I honestly don't know how one would go about reducing that innate fear. Education, early on in schools would make a helluva difference though.

*I read an interesting article in new scientist where researchers found that vit D along with medication had an appreciable and better effect on depression than the medication alone(can't find the article online sorry). It would be interesting to see if depression is more common in the higher latitudes with less sunlight and is this related to vitamin D from sunlight and or disruption of body rhythms? The easiest way to do this I reckon would be to look at populations that originally come from hotter countries and look at their rates of depression. So is there more depression among african americans in the north of the us, compared to the sunnier south?

Xiney

There is a huge stigma surrounding mental illness, and it's not just in Ireland.

I know about it first hand. My mother is bipolar and when I was a young teen she was put kicking and screaming into a police cruiser and brought to the hospital, where she was an inpatient in the mental health unit for a few months.

The neighbours were superficially supportive to my sister and I, offering kind words and "if you need anything, let us know" but the truth of the matter is that they likely would have just wanted something more to gossip about.

When my mother returned from the hospital we found the family was pretty much ignored by all the neighbours. They would go inside if they saw us outside, that kind of thing.


Now I seem to have a touch of the recession depression as you call it: I've probably always had a tendency towards depression myself but managed to work through it on my own until now. And I find I haven't been able to tell people (apart from boardsies) despite the fact that it would have been topical at times. I can talk (if it's topical) about having been suicidal between the ages of 11 and 15 but because I'm now being treated I can't talk about it to my friends. And I'm not sure why that is. I suspect I'll have to work on that as well

Novella

I wanted to reply to all the posts on here and say a million and one different things but I am pretty much lost for words (which doesn't happen very often)! So it has taken me days to think of something to say and of course, another middle of the night post

Firstly, to the posters who have been so open about their own experiences, I can only say thank you. I, myself, have suffered from depression for years and was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder when I was eighteen so your posts were much appreciated and your honesty, admired.

To everyone else, the replies in this thread were great to read and it seems there are many more understanding people out there than I had thought! Of course, depression and other mental illnesses will probably always have a stigma attached but the reassurance offered by tLL was, as always, second to none.

I completely forget what else I wanted to say and I have been trying to write this post since 4am and it is now 4:41am so I think I will leave it at that and blame my lack of "interestingness" (so not a word!) on tiredness.

d'Oracle

sam34 wrote: »

i should declare my hand from the start - i'm a psychiatrist.

there is such a huge stigma against any mental illness, but particularly depression.

as others above have alluded to, i think that some confusion and misperception arises because of overuse, and misuse, of the word "depression".

it has crept into common parlance, and is used to mean anything from being fed-up, annoyed, frustrated, sad to hurt, bitter, dissatisfied etc.

when people say "im depressed", other people tend to take that at face value and assume that what the other person is experiencing is, in fact, clinical depression, when often nothing could be further from the truth.

it puzzles me a bit that this happens, i mean, when someone says "i nearly had a heart attack when i saw..." or "i had a stroke when i heard..." or "the match gave me heart failure.." we dont take them literally, so why do we take "im depressed" so literally?


i see this stigma every day at work.
people dont want to be admitted to the psych ward "what would the neighbours say?", they dont want to be sitting in the waiting room at clinic in case someone they know sees them.
i have once seen the parents of a newly diagnosed schizophrenic man argue about which side of the family he inherited it from "there was never any madness on my side, he must have gotten it from your crowd" etc.

this stigma is something that prevents a lot of people from seeking help, and from sticking with help.
ive had people tell me thay cant continue to take tablets because their mother/brother/partner doesnt agree with them.

ultimately, this stigma contributes to our shockingly high suicide rate.

there is so much ignorance and misunderstanding out there about mental illness, it's dumbfounding at times.

there's a lot of it right here on boards too. i often see posts that imply that those with mental illnesses are weak/lazy/inadequate/dangerous/odd/unreliable etc etc etc

Where then does clinical depression start?
I mean when does someone being down in the dumps over having a hard time of it, progress to depression?

I mean everyone has a rough time of it sometimes, but when coping with things becomes hard or when silly little things break your mood into bits and confidence goes out the window, is there a point when that becomes a clinical issue? or is it already clinical depression?

Porkpie

Everyone is normal until you get to know them.

Latchy

RealEstateKing wrote: »

is majorly biased towards being sociable, outgoing, "up for the crack" , and light-hearted and up for a party, this is the public face that is expected here. Fail to show it and you risk being considered a "dry ****e".

However, in Ireland, a large number of people are unhappy a lot of the time, for many different reasons: The weather is execrable, we drink far too much, we are still more Catholic than we'd like to admit and we are a small country with a large gap between what advertising and the media tell you is possible in life, and what is actually possible in your life.

We are saturated with a U.S. based media culture which sets our expectations of life far higher than what is actually possible for people living in a small country on the fringes of Europe: Very few of us are going to have a swimming pool in our back garden, a girl/boy-friend that looks like Paris Hilton/Brad Pitt, or any of the rest of the things we supposed to aspire to, which are illusory if you live in Florida, but downright fantastical if you live here.

This has created an enormous amount of unhappiness in Irish people over the past few years. Coupled with this is the fact that as a nation, we are actually very emotionally repressed, but we like to think of ourselves as wild and free (Which is not helped by the fact that other nations seem to like to beleive this too).

Most strong emotion in Ireland is expressed under the influence of large amounts of booze and then forgotten about the next day. We seem to have orientated our culture so that the only time it is possible for people to truly let their emotions out (whether positive or negative) is when they are four sheets to the wind. Then they wake up the next day feeling terrible , and all is buried by Monday.

As a result of booze being the fulcrum of the Irish soul, many Irish people's emotional development stops at 16 when they first start drinking regularly, and doesnt continue till they have a breakdown in their 30s. This is of course made worse by the cultural refusal of Irish people to recognise problem drinking when they see it: What would be cause for concern anywhere else is simply being one of the lads here.

A very realistic and accurate assessment not helped by the fact that the Irish generally speaking, are not the most Tolerent race of people in the world, whether it be towards foreigners or even their own .

sam34

d'Oracle wrote: »

Where then does clinical depression start?
I mean when does someone being down in the dumps over having a hard time of it, progress to depression?

I mean everyone has a rough time of it sometimes, but when coping with things becomes hard or when silly little things break your mood into bits and confidence goes out the window, is there a point when that becomes a clinical issue? or is it already clinical depression?

well, without wanting to give a checklist for diy diagnosis, because that would be irresponsible, clinical depression is when someone has pervasive low mood (ie low for most of the day, most days) for 2 weeks or more, accompanied by disturbances in biological functioning - such as impaired sleep, low energy, low appetite, weight loss, poor concentration, low sex drive, and also psychological disturbances such as lack of enjoyment/motivation, negative thoughts and preoccupations, hopelessness etc. they might also be taking less interest in their personal care and hygiene.

broadly speaking, "just" having low self-esteem or poor confidence would not be depression (altho they can occur in depression). having low mood in reaction to a stress, but without the other symptoms, would be considered reactionary or an adjustment reaction.

MJOR

I think people can sometimes be looking after so many different things and coping with life in general that they don't take time to look after their mental health. If a phsyical problem like say a verruca presents itself they know what to do. If it's mental sometimes they can't identify or recognise that something is wrong. It's not something that you can self-diagnose but often people are embarassed or unequipped to get help and that is so so sad.