Should Provincial football winners beaten in quarter finals be given a second chance?

Spiritoftheseventies

Given that both Dublin and Mayo, two provincial winners are not now in the All Ireland Ireland series, should winners of the provincial championships be afforded a second chance if they go out in the quarter final.
In other words is the back door system helpful to some teams as we have seen with Kerry and Meath who are allowed to regroup. Given the premise that most teams have a bad day at the office, is the current system working for all teams in the all Ireland series.

Atomic Pineapple

bayviewclose wrote: »

Given that both Dublin and Mayo, two provincial winners are not now in the All Ireland Ireland series, should winners of the provincial championships be afforded a second chance if they go out in the quarter final.
In other words is the back door system helpful to some teams as we have seen with Kerry and Meath who are allowed to regroup. Given the premise that most teams have a bad day at the office, is the current system working for all teams in the all Ireland series.

Personally I think its the best you can get, what way could a provincial winner get a second chance?

A provincial winner will have shown there good enough to win a province and so should be well able to take on a team from the qualifiers.

Of course its unfair if a provincial winner has an off day and loses but I dont see how they would get a second chance?

Should the quarter finals be played on a two legged basis maybe?

Spiritoftheseventies

draffodx wrote: »

Personally I think its the best you can get, what way could a provincial winner get a second chance?

A provincial winner will have shown there good enough to win a province and so should be well able to take on a team from the qualifiers.

Of course its unfair if a provincial winner has an off day and loses but I dont see how they would get a second chance?

Should the quarter finals be played on a two legged basis maybe?

No but think if Meath and Kerry are allowed to have a bad day at the office and get game time under their belt in the mean time, there seems to be an imbalance there.

John The Bad

YES.

Some how this must be fixed. If there was a way to bring the qualifiers down to two teams; then let the 4 provincial champions play each other; then the two provincial losers play the two teams left from the qualifiers; then the two winners from this round play the winning provincial champions in the semi-finals.

Of course, the other option is to scrap the provinces altogether but do we want to do this?

eagle eye

NO.

The system isn't working though. I started a thread with a new type of format but nobody even replied to it. I think it all has to be changed.

themandan6611

The AI run along the lines of a group stage championship system would be better and fairer, it would allow teams to have a bad day but still have a chance and would reward the most consistent teams. Winning a leinster, connacht etc means less each year

Something along the lines of the c.l with 5-6 teams in each group with the top 2/3 going into a knockout stage - along with all teams getting game time it would also allow all teams to have a level playing field in terms of gaps between matches.

John The Bad

themandan6611 wrote: »

The AI run along the lines of a group stage championship system would be better and fairer, it would allow teams to have a bad day but still have a chance and would reward the most consistent teams. Winning a leinster, connacht etc means less each year

Something along the lines of the c.l with 5-6 teams in each group with the top 2/3 going into a knockout stage - along with all teams getting game time it would also allow all teams to have a level playing field in terms of gaps between matches.

You might need to lose the league to do this.

Spiritoftheseventies

John The Bad wrote: »

YES.

Some how this must be fixed. If there was a way to bring the qualifiers down to two teams; then let the 4 provincial champions play each other; then the two provincial losers play the two teams left from the qualifiers; then the two winners from this round play the winning provincial champions in the semi-finals.

Of course, the other option is to scrap the provinces altogether but do we want to do this?

Yes I think a champions league format the best. With teams seeded like they are in Champions league. Therefore Tyrone Kerry Cork and whoever anybody agrees is fourth would not be pooled together. eight groups. four pots made up of number one, two, three and four seeds. I think it is the way forward.

Atomic Pineapple

John The Bad wrote: »

You might need to lose the league to do this.

I agree, thats basically the league. It would never work over a summer championship would it?

BayViewClose wrote:

No but think if Meath and Kerry are allowed to have a bad day at the office and get game time under their belt in the mean time, there seems to be an imbalance there.

Well the provincial winners get a decent break whereas the Qualifier teams have a game week on week, theres an imbalance there too.

It worked for Cork and Tyrone but didn't for Dublin and Mayo, Why?

John The Bad

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes I think a champions league format the best. With teams seeded like they are in Champions league. Therefore Tyrone Kerry Cork and whoever anybody agrees is fourth would not be pooled together. eight groups. four pots made up of number one, two, three and four seeds. I think it is the way forward.

Not so fast lads, in calling for a group stage format, aka Champions League or World Cup. In such a format we will end up with some group matches between two teams in which both are already through to the next round so a win isn't vital, thus resulting in non-competitive football or hurling. That sort of morass is not what I want to see in the GAA championships.

(King Henry just scored a point before 20 seconds!)

I think the current format is good; we just need to figure a way to give a losing provincial champion a second shot.

themandan6611

John The Bad wrote: »

Not so fast lads, in calling for a group stage format, aka Champions League or World Cup. In such a format we will end up with some group matches between two teams in which both are already through to the next round so a win isn't vital, thus resulting in non-competitive football or hurling. That sort of morass is not what I want to see in the GAA championships.

(King Henry just scored a point before 20 seconds!)

I think the current format is good; we just need to figure a way to give a losing provincial champion a second shot.

true, but we are already seening quiet a few non-competitive matches - just look at 2 of the q/f's last week, and dublin's usual hammering of teams in leinster.

you could rectify things by giving the team who wins the group home advantage thereby leaving some incentive.

blinding

Mayo should be given enough chances until everyone else goes home to bed and as mayo are the last team on the field they are given Sam Maguire.

Spiritoftheseventies

draffodx wrote: »

I agree, thats basically the league. It would never work over a summer championship would it?



Well the provincial winners get a decent break whereas the Qualifier teams have a game week on week, theres an imbalance there too.

It worked for Cork and Tyrone but didn't for Dublin and Mayo, Why?

Cork played Donegal. Who are very unpredictable. Cork were always going to win that. Look at meaths run in since losing to Dublin. easy enough. Champions league format at least ensures that the top teams have a better chance of progressing.

Het-Field

The current format is failing. It was articulated that the primary reason for such a move in 2001 was to give smaller counties a second bite at the cherry. This has ensured a devaluation of the provincial championships, gametime advantage, and a chance to try new things for the bigger teams. Provincial champions are not afforded the luxuary.

Spiritoftheseventies

John The Bad wrote: »

Not so fast lads, in calling for a group stage format, aka Champions League or World Cup. In such a format we will end up with some group matches between two teams in which both are already through to the next round so a win isn't vital, thus resulting in non-competitive football or hurling. That sort of morass is not what I want to see in the GAA championships.

(King Henry just scored a point before 20 seconds!)

I think the current format is good; we just need to figure a way to give a losing provincial champion a second shot.

Well to rule that out, the bottom team in each group play off in a relegation play off. Worth examing i think.

John The Bad

bayviewclose wrote: »

Well to rule that out, the bottom team in each group play off in a relegation play off. Worth examing i think.

Relegation to what?

John The Bad

bayviewclose wrote: »

Cork played Donegal. Who are very unpredictable. Cork were always going to win that. Look at meaths run in since losing to Dublin. easy enough. Champions league format at least ensures that the top teams have a better chance of progressing.

The top teams are progressing, the top teams always progress -- that's what it means to be a top team. And Meath's run-in was not so easy. The system works in so far as it does what it sets out to do -- it gives all teams a second chance after losing a match. The qualifers are great. Every year they give a so-called weaker county a run in the championship -- look at Wicklow this year. The only problem is that provincial champions are disadvantaged. Fix that and we'll be sorted. I am not at all keen at the idea of a group stage. Another problem with that format is that after a while smaller counties will find it harder and harder to get to the knock-out stage and we will start seeing the same counties competing this stage.

tomdadude

The usual story.Dublin get hammered so the system needs to be changed.

No.The provincial championships and the All-Ireland championship are all separate competitions.

If any team is beaten in the All Ireland Championship than they're out.The system is fine.People were saying Tyrone, Kerry and Cork were the best teams before the season started and that's the way it's turned out.

The system is fine in that the best teams are in the semi finals.

Spiritoftheseventies

John The Bad wrote: »

The top teams are progressing, the top teams always progress -- that's what it means to be a top team. And Meath's run-in was not so easy. The system works in so far as it does what it sets out to do -- it gives all teams a second chance after losing a match. The qualifers are great. Every year they give a so-called weaker county a run in the championship -- look at Wicklow this year. The only problem is that provincial champions are disadvantaged. Fix that and we'll be sorted. I am not at all keen at the idea of a group stage. Another problem with that format is that after a while smaller counties will find it harder and harder to get to the knock-out stage and we will start seeing the same counties competing this stage.

Well I think what a champions league format does is that the perceived weaker teams dont get a relatively easy pass to to a quarter final by virtue of a kind draw. I think how a team performed over lets day last five years in All Ireland championship should be a good enough measure of seeds.
Admittedly i dont know how much appetite teams will have for playing a league and champions league. It needs working out.
Other idea is merge the provinces. Have a northern and southern conference. Based on geography. I would think it would be a good idea to merge Connaught with Munster to make it more competitive and maybe put a few Leinster teams into Ulster.

John The Bad

tomdadude wrote: »

The usual story.Dublin get hammered so the system needs to be changed.

No.The provincial championships and the All-Ireland championship are all separate competitions.

If any team is beaten in the All Ireland Championship than they're out.The system is fine.People were saying Tyrone, Kerry and Cork were the best teams before the season started and that's the way it's turned out.

The system is fine in that the best teams are in the semi finals.

A good point that and I hadn't thought of it.

Spiritoftheseventies

John The Bad wrote: »

A good point that and I hadn't thought of it.

Dont agree with that. Meath deserved their win today but are they they the fourth best team in the competition?

Pride Fighter

I had a good idea, it was posted in the GAA forum write off thread, I dont know where it is though, I'll post it up later.

Pride Fighter

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I had a good idea, it was posted in the GAA forum write off thread, I dont know where it is though, I'll post it up later.

Found it-

My new Championship idea

So for the Football championships we have had several debates over the years about how the Championship would go. Many pundits believe the Champions league style pool system will give the weaker counties more games to improve at championships and give them home games against big guns, improving the various County board coffers (imagine how packed Aughrim would be if the Dubs were to play Wicklow). Many want to see this implemented and the provincial championships abolished, here is the new idea I came up with.

Keep the provincial championships, but have a Champions league style pool system inside the provincial championship. I propose groups of 3 as it is the most logical, each team plays home and away giving every team at the minimum 4 championships games. Here is my mock draw


Ulster Championship Pool A
Armagh
Antrim
Donegal

Pool B
Fermanagh
Tyrone
Cavan

Pool C
Derry
Monaghan
Down

Winner of each group goes through, in the draw one winner gets a bye to the final while the other 2 play in the semi. The final winner goes through to the All Ireland Semi final, yes, this system would abolish the back door, but as I said, weaker counties will get 2 more games in the Championship

Connacht Pool A
Mayo
Leitrim
Roscommon

Connacht Pool B
Galway
Sligo
New York

As above, winner of each group meets in the Connacht final, Connacht Champion goes to the AI semi final.

Munster Pool A
Tipperary
Limerick
Waterford

Munster Pool B
Cork
Kerry
Clare

As all provinces would be open draws a situation like pool B could happen anywhere. A big gun will go out at the first hurdle, placing more emphasis on the clashes between the 2. Also with a weak pool A a non traditional team will make the final.

Leinster Pool A
Longford
Louth
Carlow

Pool B
Dublin
Meath
Wicklow

Pool C
Wexford
Laois
Offaly

Pool D
Kildare
Westmeath
London

For arithmetic purposes I have moved London from Connacht to Leinster, sure Leinster is the closest province to London, also London could be seen as taking Kilkennys place who have no Football team. As I said earlier could you imagine Aughrim packed to the rafters, could you imagine Croker full for Dublin/Meath and Pairc Tailteann full for the reverse fixture. Winners of each pool in Leinster progress to the semi final with the eventual champion taking Leinsters place in the AI semi final.

Dapos

IMO this is just an excuse used by counties where their teams are just not good enough.

Lets look at the situation we have now. Last four are Tyrone, Cork, Kery and Meath. Two of the four provincal champions, one who are the all-ireland champions, the other all-ireland finalists in 2007, Kerry an all-ireland finalist (and league champions) and meath, a teams who battled hard to get where they are. IMO the top three teams are in the last four and have got to this stage before through the provincal championship route and the back-door. Cream rises to the top! If you gave dublin or Mayo a second chance there is every reason to believe they would still not make it to the final four.

Now Kerry stumbled through the qualifers alright but they are a good team.

I think the current format is fine. I think it could probably do with some tweaking. The big gap between provincal finals and quarter finals needs to be closed a bit.

Another option (which is a bit out there but anyway) would maybe be to have a two game quarter-final, decided on aggrigate. This way the provincal champions would have two games to "show there worth". Not really sure how well it would work though.

Spiritoftheseventies

Pride Fighther am I reading this right. Only one to go through from Cork Kerry and Clare. Can you please clarify?

Pride Fighter

bayviewclose wrote: »

Pride Fighther am I reading this right. Only one to go through from Cork Kerry and Clare. Can you please clarify?

That is a hypothetical Munster draw, with the other 3 teams in Munster group A. The winners of each group play in the final. With the winner being Munster champion, it would be an open draw, so a situation like this year with one of the Munster big 2 not contesting the final and giving someone like a Limerick a chance to win the Munster title.

Spiritoftheseventies

Pride Fighter wrote: »

That is a hypothetical Munster draw, with the other 3 teams in Munster group A. The winners of each group play in the final. With the winner being Munster champion, it would be an open draw, so a situation like this year with one of the Munster big 2 not contesting the final and giving someone like a Limerick a chance to win the Munster title.

Yes you have obviously made an effort here but I think Dapos gets the nod. Home and away for the quarter finals which works for me.

padraig_f

No. Whenever you introduce fudges like the backdoor system, you're always going to get anomalies. To extend the second chance to the provincial winners would be adding another fudge on top of it, and only making things worse if anything.

I think the backdoor system has been a qualified success. It has brought on the weaker counties with extra championship games, but has diminished the status of the provincial finals and led to certain anomalies. If it is to change, I think you need to go with a whole new system.

My preference is:
- round-robin/league for provincial matches (ensure weaker teams get more than one match)
- top 2 of this league play in provincial final
- the 4 provincial winners go into the all-ireland semi-finals (like the old system).

This would ensure weaker counties have multiple championship matches, restore status of provincial finals, and have no inbalances where one team were playing the previous 4 weekends in a row while their opponents were out of action.

Spiritoftheseventies

padraig_f wrote: »

No. Whenever you introduce fudges like the backdoor system, you're always going to get anomalies. To extend the second chance to the provincial winners would be adding another fudge on top of it, and only making things worse if anything.

I think the backdoor system has been a qualified success. It has brought on the weaker counties with extra championship games, but has diminished the status of the provincial finals and led to certain anomalies. If it is to change, I think you need to go with a whole new system.

My preference is:
- round-robin/league for provincial matches (ensure weaker teams get more than one match)
- top 2 of this league play in provincial final
- the 4 provincial winners go into the all-ireland semi-finals (like the old system).

This would ensure weaker counties have multiple championship matches, restore status of provincial finals, and have no inbalances where one team were playing the previous 4 weekends in a row while their opponents were out of action.

whats wrong with home and away for the quarter finals. Obviously it might congest the fixture schedule but i dont see a problem. It ensures everyone gets an extra game. Obviously teams like Tyrone and Kerry might object to having to play an extra game but it at least it would reduce the risk of the one sided games we saw in Kerry Dublin game and Cork Donegal games.

plasmaguy

Serious doubt has been raised this year whether being a provincial champion is a help or a hindrance.

And would you rather have an AI medal in your back pocket or a provincial one?

The lack of competition in Leinster means Dublin are usually untested and don't learn their weaknesses are until it's usually too late and these weaknesses are found out.

The administrators of the GAA have it greatly wrong on the back door system.

You cannot have a competition where there is not a level playing field and where defeated teams are rewarded with another game while provincial champions can be dumped out first time.

It's farcical that one team can win an AI despite losing an earlier match, while another team, provincial champions, can also lose one match and not have a second chance.

Dapos

padraig_f wrote: »

No. Whenever you introduce fudges like the backdoor system, you're always going to get anomalies. To extend the second chance to the provincial winners would be adding another fudge on top of it, and only making things worse if anything.

I think the backdoor system has been a qualified success. It has brought on the weaker counties with extra championship games, but has diminished the status of the provincial finals and led to certain anomalies. If it is to change, I think you need to go with a whole new system.

My preference is:
- round-robin/league for provincial matches (ensure weaker teams get more than one match)
- top 2 of this league play in provincial final
- the 4 provincial winners go into the all-ireland semi-finals (like the old system).

This would ensure weaker counties have multiple championship matches, restore status of provincial finals, and have no inbalances where one team were playing the previous 4 weekends in a row while their opponents were out of action.

One of the benifits i see in the back-door system is it allows more than one good tram from each province progress e.g. cork and kerry in Munster, Tyrone, Armagh (and a number of other ulster teams) in Ulster

Also imo it adds a bit of variety to the championship as teams from different provinces get to play each other before the quarter final stages.

Dapos

plasmaguy wrote: »

Serious doubt has been raised this year whether being a provincial champion is a help or a hindrance.

And would you rather have an AI medal in your back pocket or a provincial one?

The lack of competition in Leinster means Dublin are usually untested and don't learn their weaknesses are until it's usually too late and these weaknesses are found out.

The administrators of the GAA have it greatly wrong on the back door system.

You cannot have a competition where there is not a level playing field and where defeated teams are rewarded with another game while provincial champions can be dumped out first time.

It's farcical that one team can win an AI despite losing an earlier match, while another team, provincial champions, can also lose one match and not have a second chance.

Disagree completly. There are plenty of competitions all over the world where teams can lose a game or two and still beat an unbeaten team further in the competition. Look at the world cup groups. You could have a team in one group with good teams go unbeaten and plays a teams from another group that struggled to get out of the group by losing and drawing matchs.

The main point is at quarter-final stage why should it matter that a provincal champions not have a second chance. If you go through the province unbeaten, you win a provincal medal. If you lose and get to the quarter final you have nothing but have battled through the qualifers to get there.

End of the day, if your lose at QF stage than you ain't good enough.

grenache

plasmaguy wrote: »

The lack of competition in Leinster means Dublin are usually untested and don't learn their weaknesses are until it's usually too late and these weaknesses are found out.

Kerry have 35 All Irelands. For years, before the emergence of Limerick, the only credible opposition they faced in Munster was Cork. It didn't seem to affect them. You're either good enough or not. Dublin, like Mayo, are not currently good enough to win Sam. The system isn't to blame for that.

padraig_f

bayviewclose wrote: »

whats wrong with home and away for the quarter finals. Obviously it might congest the fixture schedule but i dont see a problem. It ensures everyone gets an extra game. Obviously teams like Tyrone and Kerry might object to having to play an extra game but it at least it would reduce the risk of the one sided games we saw in Kerry Dublin game and Cork Donegal games.

I guess my objection to this is that GAA matches have never been two-legged affairs so this would be a more radical change, then you'd be changing not just the format of the competition, but the format of the game itself. also it still strikes me as bit of a fudge, it would mean you'd have a quarter final that's over two legs and all other matches would be over one leg.

Spiritoftheseventies

padraig_f wrote: »

I guess my objection to this is that GAA matches have never been two-legged affairs so this would be a more radical change, then you'd be changing not just the format of the competition, but the format of the game itself. also it still strikes me as bit of a fudge, it would mean you'd have a quarter final that's over two legs and all other matches would be over one leg.

yes so one game is played over two legs. Its not that radical an ideal. On the plus side a team who is not doing well in the first leg (donegal and Dublin for example) would be encouraged to chase the game more so it would end one sided affairs. Then you have other teams like mayo and Kildare who possibly fell in away in last ten minutes given the chance to fight another day. On top of that you could have two really close games which would build up rivalries.
Look at the four in a row saga between Dublin and Meath in 1991 which became the stuff of legend.
On the down side you are adding an extra game to the calendar but in that case you can either stream line the back door qualifiers or just play extra time and avoid replays.

DARK-KNIGHT

hi i think the championship is great the way it is! why all the complainiong about the championship?

BE PROUD OF WHAT WE HAVE!

and to all the soccer fans wanting a group stage or champions league set up back off and stick to wednesday nights instead of trying to change our championship!

DARK-KNIGHT

also i agree with a 2 leg quarter final!

now thats a good idea;)

Flukey

Leave things as they are. If we allow quarter-finalists a second chance, before you know it we'll have a thread in here asking should beaten semi-finalists who had not lost a match get a second chance, and then eventually beaten finalists suffering their first defeat will have a thread for their cause. Then we'll have teams who are beaten twice looking for a third chance, and on we'll go. Years from now, there will be old men posting here in a thread entitled "Should a team that has been beaten get a 93rd chance?" So, leave things as they are. As it is, all teams get another chance. It is called next year! The GAA was founded in 1884, with the first All-Ireland championship being the 1887 one. So all teams have had many, many chances, and have many more to come.

Spiritoftheseventies

So not what i'm talking about. Two provincial teams are out of the competition. We beat Meath in first round and they are in the semi. They were allowed a bad display and then handed an easy enough route after that. Not sour grapes but we win Leinster and our prize for it is drawing Kerry who were able to regroup after losing to Cork. Something is wrong with the system when two of your provincial winners get beaten.

curry-muff

Utterly Stupid

tomdadude

bayviewclose wrote: »

So not what i'm talking about. Two provincial teams are out of the competition. We beat Meath in first round and they are in the semi. They were allowed a bad display and then handed an easy enough route after that. Not sour grapes but we win Leinster and our prize for it is drawing Kerry who were able to regroup after losing to Cork. Something is wrong with the system when two of your provincial winners get beaten.

No nothing wrong with it.There are two teams in Munster better than the best team in Leinster.Dublin were beaten by one of them.

The Connacht championship is just weak.

PhosphoricAcid

an open draw with all 33 teams should take place at the start...no seeding just luck of the draw no back door would be fair and the losing teams to be places in a cup similar to Tommy Murphy but of course seeing how that failed some changes may be needed

aidz

Think the system is grand.

You got to look at the provinical championships and all-ireland seried as 2 seperate competitions. Nobody gets a second chance in winning sam (the All Ireland championship).
The bonus of runners up and winners of the provincial championships is that they get byes through a number of rounds, ie runners up get a bye into the 4th round, provincial winners bye into the 5th round/quarter finals).

PhosphoricAcid

yeah it is grand as it is though..no more soft all Irelands now the best team usually comes out on top or at least gets to the final

enner43

In my opinion this is a fairer system. I have set it up so we would end up with the same semi finalists as this year, just to avoid any arguments about who would beat who! I think that this system is fair as it gives the losing provincial champions a second chance, and ensures that they don’t just have an off day (e.g. QF this year). However, this doesn’t happen at the semi final stage (which is a flaw) but these teams would clearly be two of the best teams in the country as they would have remained undefeated up until this point, (e.g Tyrone and Cork) so there is every chance they could win anyway.

Instead of the Quarter Final, 4 Provincial Winners play each other
Tyrone v Dublin = Tyrone win
Mayo v Cork= Cork win

Last 4 Qualifiers play each other
Meath v Donegal= Meath win
Kildare v Kerry= Kerry win

Winning Qualifiers play Losers of Provincial Match
Kerry v Dublin= Kerry win
Meath v Mayo= Meath win

Semi Final (Provincial winners can’t play each other at this stage)
Tyrone v Meath
Cork v Kerry

Spiritoftheseventies

Dapos wrote: »

Disagree completly. There are plenty of competitions all over the world where teams can lose a game or two and still beat an unbeaten team further in the competition. Look at the world cup groups. You could have a team in one group with good teams go unbeaten and plays a teams from another group that struggled to get out of the group by losing and drawing matchs.

The main point is at quarter-final stage why should it matter that a provincal champions not have a second chance. If you go through the province unbeaten, you win a provincal medal. If you lose and get to the quarter final you have nothing but have battled through the qualifers to get there.

End of the day, if your lose at QF stage than you ain't good enough.

Well can you say Mayo were not good enough. One side line ball decision that went against them. From a four point game to a one point game in a matter of seconds. was the turning point of the game. Not taking anything away from Meath. They were the better team in last ten minutes. But that call turned the game on its head. But as the saying goes only winners get to write history.

busbybhoy

bayviewclose wrote: »

Well can you say Mayo were not good enough. One side line ball decision that went against them. From a four point game to a one point game in a matter of seconds. was the turning point of the game. Not taking anything away from Meath. They were the better team in last ten minutes. But that call turned the game on its head. But as the saying goes only winners get to write history.

Please shut up about the dodgy decisions...They happen in every sport (Community Shield yesterday)As a Mayoman im embarrassed reading this continuously!! We lost in Croker AGAIN. Deal with it!!!!

Spiritoftheseventies

busbybhoy wrote: »

Please shut up about the dodgy decisions...They happen in every sport (Community Shield yesterday)As a Mayoman im embarrassed reading this continuously!! We lost in Croker AGAIN. Deal with it!!!!

Well good to see you took your defeat well. Like I said Meath were the better team once the penalty went it. . But dont think you speak for ALL mayo fans as quite a number of them took issue with a few calls on Sunday game last night.

Flukey

Whatever way we do it, only one team will walk up the steps of the Hogan Stand in September. The only thing that would make some people happy would be that every single county was playing in the All-Ireland final on All-Ireland final day. Sorry, but only two can make it that far, and only one up those steps. People were not happy with the old system. The complaint then was that teams were out after one defeat in May or June. The prize for the provincial finalists is their title and having to play less matches to get to the quarter finals. At some point it has to become a full knock-out competition. The quarter-finals are a good place to do it. My county lost once and are out and one of the teams we beat are still in there, but I am not complaining. The current system isn't perfect, and that is something it has in common with every single other system that people suggest.

Every year we get loads of "Here's a new format for the championship" threads. Like the ones that will soon start popping up in relation to how tickets are distributed for the All-Ireland finals, there is no perfect system. The 32 counties cannot be in the All-Ireland Final at once. The system we have has made things more interesting, despite it's flaws. The many threads we have here on the real business of this forum, the matches, are testament to that. We'll never have a system that is perfect, so let's talk about something else - except how tickets are distributed for the All-Ireland Finals. In the same way that you can't have 32 counties on the pitch for the final, whatever system you come up with you can't fit all the people that want and even deserve to be in Croke Park on All-Ireland Finals days within the capacity it has. So let's not have the annual litany of threads with that as the topic along with all their ideas of "fairer systems". There isn't a perfect system for tickets and there isn't a perfect system for the championship. Right, now that we have that sorted once and for all, let's talk about matches.

Riskymove

Flukey wrote: »

People were not happy with the old system. The complaint then was that teams were out after one defeat in May or June.

yes but it was more about allowing weaker teams more games in order to develop, losing 1 match every year does not too much good

the problem is this became everyone getting a second chance, including the best teams. The problem there is most evident in hurling, whatever chance you get of Kilkenny losing once....twice is even more remote.

the weaker teams ina province should have some sort of group set up after which straight knockout

homerjay2005

at what point do we stop, replay the final until both teams have won it?

what i would suggest is that the province winners all have "home" advantage where possible i.e. they have a 30,000 capable ground. i would also suggest the loosing province winners have home advantage, its at that stage where they most of them are knocked out.

however, maybe the GAA would not go for that as they would lose money. i think however, they way to worked out this year, would have seen bigger attendances. taking into account the double header last Sunday.

Dublin V Kerry - same, played in Croker anyway.
Tyrone V Kildare - would defo have sold out Clones 36,000 (Healy park too small)
Mayo V Meath - 30,000 in Castebar surely
Cork V Donegal - this is the only didgy one, but surely would have got 22,000 to 25,000 there.

food for thought and should not be a problem if Dubs keep winning leinster.