Was I overcharged?

Baggio...

hey all,

I hope this is okay to post here - I'm not looking to name names or anything. I wonder if you could help me out though?

I've moved out to the country and I'm using one of the local mechanics here. However, I can't help thinking I'm being overcharged. I seem to remember that a service (I drive a yaris) was around 150 - 175 quid. I'm now paying qiote a bit over two hundred.

Also, I recently had a new clutch put into the car - I was charged over 570.00 euro. I can't but feel that I'm paying a bit too much . If it turns out to be true I'll simply change my mechanic. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Robert.

Heroditas

Celbridge by any chance?

spartacus93

Baggio... wrote: »

Also, I recently had a new clutch put into the car - I was charged over 570.00 euro. I can't but feel that I'm paying a bit too much . If it turns out to be true I'll simply change my mechanic. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't be too sure about these things. Seems a bit expensive tho. To give you an idea a new clutch + labour in a main Skoda dealer for an Octavia is €440. Can't see why a Yaris would be that much more expensive.

Drummerboy08

Baggio, The service sounds like alot @ €200 +. I get mine done for around the €120 mark. I'd shop around if i were you, or else i can put you in touch with a good mechanic in West Dublin, who may collect from Celbridge.

As for the clutch, well that sounds expensive. Particularly for a Yaris.

Baggio...

spartacus93 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too sure about these things. Seems a bit expensive tho. To give you an idea a new clutch + labour in a main Skoda dealer for an Octavia is €440. Can't see why a Yaris would be that much more expensive.

Many thanks for taking the time to answer!

Wow... that's a lot cheaper, considering that's form a proper dealer too - who you'd expect to be dearer than your self employed mechanic. And I reckon your right about the skoda, there's no real reason that it should be all that much different from my small Yaris Clutch.

Cheers,

Robert.

Baggio...

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Baggio, The service sounds like alot @ €200 +. I get mine done for around the €120 mark. I'd shop around if i were you, or else i can put you in touch with a good mechanic in West Dublin, who may collect from Celbridge.

As for the clutch, well that sounds expensive. Particularly for a Yaris.

Thanks for the advice and answer!

Gah... I have that sinking feeling now...:( Yeah, I thought that was very over the top for even just a service. I'm actually based close to Kildare town, so it might be a bit out of the way for your fella'. But if not, I'd be interested in him for the next time I need some work done.

Thanks again,

Robert.

Mr Benevolent

I suggest doing the service yourself next time. It's easy, interesting and gives you the confidence to tackle other jobs.

Baggio...

Confab wrote: »

I suggest doing the service yourself next time. It's easy, interesting and gives you the confidence to tackle other jobs.

With my hands? I'd probably implode the car to be honest.

Seriously tho', I' quite happy to pay a professional, as long as it's at fair price.

slimjimmc

What did the service involve Baggio? It's easy to say it was just a service but many garages and customers have differing opinions of what that actually entails. For example some places might include replacing the air filter or pollen filter, others might not. Likewise some customers assume certain things are part of the service too and don't realise what they're buying.

If your service was simply plugs, oil + oil filter then €200 is very steep imo.


I always have a laugh when I see ads listing what you get with garage X's new 20-point service for €199 or whatever. 15 of the points simply involve looking at lights, tyres and can all be done in about 3mins. Great value :rolleyes:

poxx

Have a look at your invoice and post what was done. €200 for a propper FULL service is not that bad. Did you ask what their labour rate is? how dose the car perform now? Some times you get what you pay for and some times you get shafted! :eek:

Gurgle

Baggio... wrote: »

Also, I recently had a new clutch put into the car - I was charged over 570.00 euro.

You haven't just been 'had', you've been absolutely ridden.

maidhc

Gurgle wrote: »

You haven't just been 'had', you've been absolutely ridden.

Really?

A new decent clutch is going to be the bones of €300. That leaves €270 to split the car and install. Then there is VAT, and brake fluid, and probably a new slave cylinder.

Even a clutch and pressure plate are only €200 I can't see how the job can be done for much less than €500.

I find these "have I been had" posts a bit distasteful. I'm not a mechanic, but I know a lot more than most people on this forum. If there is a job out of my league I go to a local mechanic. He charges a price, it is always fair.

People should try and build a relationship with their mechanic rather than getting excited about whether they were charged 30-40 too much. It works out better in the long run.

Fishtits

maidhc

You've said it all.

Plus, add Rates (one days turnover every week = Rates,)

Strange that I'm discharging more water than I intake, and they are charging me accordingly, Justification should be interesting...

Interceptor

maidhc wrote: »

I know a lot more than most people on this forum.

The Weetabix I had for breakfast knows more than most people on this forum...

OP - if you got a good quality job and your mechanic didn't steal your Maria Carey CDs then I wouldn't worry about it. The real test is when your car doesn't start on a winter Sunday night and you phone the guy for help - if he comes out, pay him whatever he asks and buy him a Terrys Chocolate Orange as well.

'cptr

Sam Kade

Interceptor wrote: »

The Weetabix I had for breakfast knows more than most people on this forum...

OP - if you got a good quality job and your mechanic didn't steal your Maria Carey CDs then I wouldn't worry about it. The real test is when your car doesn't start on a winter Sunday night and you phone the guy for help - if he comes out, pay him whatever he asks and buy him a Terrys Chocolate Orange as well.

'cptr

By any chance would you have a broken down car I could fix, we can discuss the cost of repairs when the job is done:rolleyes:

Baggio...

maidhc wrote: »

People should try and build a relationship with their mechanic rather than getting excited about whether they were charged 30-40 too much. It works out better in the long run.

You said it yourself your not a mechanic....

I thought we had a good relationship with ours - I was throwing him a lot of business his way too. Unfortunately, it now it seems I was over charged by way more than 30-40 euro (if it was only that amount I wouldn't bat an eyelid).

The clutch part itself was a lot cheaper than you intimated. It was a labour cost that was, in my opinion very expensive.

Anyway, there's a lot of people out there for me to choose from, I'll ask around down here, and get someone who charges a fair price.

slimjimmc wrote: »

If your service was simply plugs, oil + oil filter then €200 is very steep imo.

That was about the size of it... Nothing major.

I did notice that stuff like the wipers were constantly being replaced (and each servise and some other minor bits). Which I didn't really want done as they were in perfect condition.

maidhc

Baggio... wrote: »

You said it yourself your not a mechanic....

I thought we had a good relationship with ours - I was throwing him a lot of business his way too. Unfortunately, it now it seems I was over charged by way more than 30-40 euro (if it was only that amount I wouldn't bat an eyelid).

I'm not a mechanic but I can swap out a clutch. I know the work involved, the equipment required, and it isn't a job I'd start on saturday evening if I wanted the car for work on monday.

Also it is difficult if you are dealing with mechanical equipment to give a quote up front. God knows what snakes are lurking under the bonnet of any car. Something small like a rounded bolt in an awkward place could cost you 2 hours of your time.

If you think €300 is about right for the Yaris 3 piece clutch kit tis a relationship with your motor factors you'd want to work on.

testicle

maidhc wrote: »

Really?

A new decent clutch is going to be the bones of €300. That leaves €270 to split the car and install. Then there is VAT, and brake fluid, and probably a new slave cylinder.

Even a clutch and pressure plate are only €200 I can't see how the job can be done for much less than €500.

I find these "have I been had" posts a bit distasteful. I'm not a mechanic, but I know a lot more than most people on this forum. If there is a job out of my league I go to a local mechanic. He charges a price, it is always fair.

People should try and build a relationship with their mechanic rather than getting excited about whether they were charged 30-40 too much. It works out better in the long run.

Jow come the same job is only €440 in a Skoda Main Dealer?

bijapos

Only way to find out if you've been done on the clutch is to ring 4 or 5 Toyota dealers and ask for a quote on a clutch change. Standard job so they'll have an idea how many hours it takes. If its way over you could ask for a refund of sorts but I'd ring around first.

You cant use the Octavia price as a basis for this, all cars are built differently, and come apart differently.

As regards the service as a poster above said, check what parts were put in and ask the other garages for a quote based on this.

Baggio...

maidhc wrote: »

I'm not a mechanic but I can swap out a clutch. I know the work involved, the equipment required, and it isn't a job I'd start on saturday evening if I wanted the car for work on monday.

Also it is difficult if you are dealing with mechanical equipment to give a quote up front. God knows what snakes are lurking under the bonnet of any car. Something small like a rounded bolt in an awkward place could cost you 2 hours of your time.

"Could, may, might",etc... that's a bit of a "what if" situation without any tangibility. That can't really be quantified, as you have know idea if a bolt took the mechanic 2 hours (or some other fiddly bit may have been there). Plus, a professional, I'm sure, will have ways of speeding things up. I'm sure they are well used to working on cars that are far more awkward then a small yaris.

RoverJames wrote: »

If you think €300 is about right for the Yaris 3 piece clutch kit tis a relationship with your motor factors you'd want to work on.

The guy didn't charge 300 for the yaris clutch.

So what does the average mechanic charge for an hours work then? What is considered a fair price for their skilled work?

bijapos wrote: »

Only way to find out if you've been done on the clutch is to ring 4 or 5 Toyota dealers and ask for a quote on a clutch change. Standard job so they'll have an idea how many hours it takes. If its way over you could ask for a refund of sorts but I'd ring around first.

yeah, I might ask around a bit... To be honest I'm not really a refund type guy. I just do the typical Irish maneuver. I never go back and simply find someone else to give my hard earned cash to.

blue42

three and a half to four hours labour last time i did a yaris, quicker if you have a two post lift! i didnt.

Baggio...

blue42 wrote: »

three and a half to four hours labour last time i did a yaris, quicker if you have a two post lift! i didnt.

Thanks mate, I appreciate the answer there - that helps me a lot.

Rob.

maidhc

Baggio... wrote: »

"Could, may, might",etc... that's a bit of a "what if" situation without any tangibility. That can't really be quantified, as you have know idea if a bolt took the mechanic 2 hours (or some other fiddly bit may have been there). Plus, a professional, I'm sure, will have ways of speeding things up. I'm sure they are well used to working on cars that are far more awkward then a small yaris.

I'm not familar with the Yaris, but doing the clutch on some cars (Ford Mondeo springs to mind) is a god awful job that can take a lot of time.

As regards hourly rate for a skilled self employed mecahnic with his own premises. I don't think €60-90 is out of order.

blue42

maidhc wrote: »

As regards hourly rate for a skilled self employed mecahnic with his own premises. I don't think €60-90 is out of order.

i think 60-90 euro seems high...that more like main dealer rates!

bladebrew

it was €668 for a clutch on my saxo,that was including €90 to hire a recovery truck,€570 in an independent is really pushing it,my dad was told later the local mechanic back home would have done it for around €350!
my family know him fairly well but i dont think he was leaving himself out off pocket charging €350,

i dont claim to know more than anyone on boards, but i hope i know more than a weetabix:eek:

Baggio...

maidhc wrote: »

As regards hourly rate for a skilled self employed mecahnic with his own premises. I don't think €60-90 is out of order.

Just out of interest... how are you arriving at these figures?

maidhc wrote: »

I'm not familar with the Yaris, but doing the clutch on some cars (Ford Mondeo springs to mind) is a god awful job that can take a lot of time.

Well, as your're not familiar with a Yaris I can't really take you opinion on board. Plus, the fact that the OP has said that he's done it, and it didn't take all that long per se (3hrs or so).

ninty9er

Baggio... wrote: »

Well, as your're not familiar with a Yaris I can't really take you opinion on board. Plus, the fact that the OP has said that he's done it, and it didn't take all that long per se (3hrs or so).

And you're not familiar with it either. I suggest untwisting your knickers adn ringing around a few Toyota dealers to get the cost.

As for your service, wipers would certainly not be included in the average service, just because they were fine going in, doesn't mean they would have been fine 'til the next service. Did you have brake pads changed? Fuel Filter?? Bulbs? headlight alignment? All of these are costs outside of the average service criteria.

"pretty much" doesn't say what was or wasn't on your invoice. I know myself that the engine bay of the new Yaris is certainly a painful place to be, and I was only trying to change a bulb (and failed.)

You can't compare a Yaris with a Skoda. The parts are completely different, the clutch mount could have any number of differences, and the Yaris is one car, the Octavia is about 5, meaning it's more than likely built for more generic maintenance.

JHMEG

maidhc wrote: »

As regards hourly rate for a skilled self employed mecahnic with his own premises. I don't think €60-90 is out of order.

While I agree with the rest of your posts, €60/hr is what a main dealer in a Nissan/Honda dealership in Dublin charges. A mechanic "down the country" charges €20. I even know of one lad in Co Louth that charges €50 labour to do a timing belt.

ninty9er

JHMEG wrote: »

While I agree with the rest of your posts, €60/hr is what a main dealer in a Nissan/Honda dealership in Dublin charges. A mechanic "down the country" charges €20. I even know of one lad in Co Louth that charges €50 labour to do a timing belt.

I'd say €60 is very light. €40 might be the wage for a qualified mechanic who'd be entrusted with a clutch, €70-€90 would be more like the cost to the customer when overheads are accounted for.

JHMEG

ninty9er wrote: »

I'd say €60 is very light.

It's what I paid!

ninty9er

For a clutch??

blue42

makes no real difference if its a clutch,timing belt, or head gasket..ect, it all charged at the same hourly rate...or at least should be!

JHMEG

ninty9er wrote: »

For a clutch??

No, hourly labour rate in a main dealer.

Baggio...

ninty9er wrote: »

And you're not familiar with it either. I suggest untwisting your knickers adn ringing around a few Toyota dealers to get the cost.

Well, to I've already said I'd do that. So there's not really any point in making that point again. And I think it's obvious that I don't really know much about cars as thats why I'm here. However, I won't take the op points on board, as he seems to be going against the grain - the majority rules and all that.

Plus, I like having my knickers in a knot.:D

Baggio...

Baggio... wrote: »

Well, to I've already said I'd do that. So there's not really any point in making that point again. And I think it's obvious that I don't really know much about cars as thats why I'm here. However, I won't take the op points on board, as he seems to be going against the grain - the majority rules and all that.

Plus, I like having my knickers in a knot.:D

The 90 euro (the top end of the scale as was suggested by op) for an hour seems ludicrous. 720 euro a day!! I think not... unless your're maybe Walter Mitty.

maidhc

Baggio... wrote: »

The 90 euro (the top end of the scale as was suggested by op) for an hour seems ludicrous. 720 euro a day!! I think not... unless your're maybe Walter Mitty.

720 a day is a lot, but if you are going to assume we are talking about a one man operation he will have to pay

a) rent or a mortgage
b) insurance
c) L & H (3 phase in most cases)
d) VAT
e) a substantial outlay on equipment
f) phone, etc etc.

I am also assuming a person who charges €90 a hour is good. I.e. can actually fix a problem and do it quicker than a mechanic 1 year qualified. He may also be a specialist who knows more about a particular marque than most.

I'm not going to say any more on this matter, but some mechanics charge far more than others. It isn't necessarily a rip off. If a mechanic is skilled, just like a tax advisor, or an accountant, then why should he not be entitled to charge as he sees fit. It is up to the general public to decide if he is worth it or not.

(alternatively you can go to a main dealer and still spend upwards of €80 a hour and get an apprentice with a Lenovo thinkpad playing with your car for the day!)

Mr.Diagnostic

The better the garage the higher the overheads. The higher the overheads the higher the labour charges have to be. It really is that simple.

Often a talented tech who charges, for example, €70 per hour could fix a car in an hour by diagnosing and replacing one faulty part. A lesser tech, working for €40 per hour might fit three or four parts and take three hours to reach the same conclusion. Which one is cheaper then?

I suspect that very few people posting about labour prices have any knowledge of the level of overheads incurred in running a modern workshop.
Something that strikes me as being strange, a plumber who arrives with a bag of rusty tools is worth €100 call out but a mechanic with maybe €100k worth of equipment is only worth €40 to €60 per hour!

Voodoomelon

In regards the service, if he did oil, oil filter, air filter and plugs, you should have been charged 120-150. He may have done something to up the bill though, ask him what he did.

The clutch price is a little on the high side, but nothing astronomical, not all mechanics charge the same. I wouldn't be too worried.

kakee

There is a simple solution to all this overcharging talk. Next time just pick up the phone and contact different garages and ask for a rough guide of what they charge for a service, changing timing belt, or whatever. You could just go to a garage and pay to find out what needs to be done and then shop around for the best price.Talk to people you know and ask if they could recommend a mechanic in your area.

Baggio...

maidhc wrote: »

720 a day is a lot, but if you are going to assume we are talking about a one man operation he will have to pay

a) rent or a mortgage
b) insurance
c) L & H (3 phase in most cases)
d) VAT
e) a substantial outlay on equipment
f) phone, etc etc.

Well, I'm self-employed and I have similar overheads (computer software can run into thousands of pounds). I don't know all that many people who can charge 90 euro an hour (regardless the industry). Again, I ask where are you getting these figures from? Are you basing them of any facts at all, or are you just pulling them out of the air?

Voodoomelon wrote: »

In regards the service, if he did oil, oil filter, air filter and plugs, you should have been charged 120-150. He may have done something to up the bill though, ask him what he did.

The clutch price is a little on the high side, but nothing astronomical, not all mechanics charge the same. I wouldn't be too worried.

I'll definitely shop around in the future and see what's on offer. 150 was what I was paying up in dublin as opposed to (230-250) down here.

Thanks!

Mr.Diagnostic

Baggio... wrote: »

Well, I'm self-employed and I have similar overheads (computer software can run into thousands of pounds). I don't know all that many people who can charge 90 euro an hour (regardless the industry).

You say you have similar overheads. Before you can say that you would have to know what the cost of overheads is to a workshop. Do you, and if so, how do you know this?

Baggio... wrote: »

Again, I ask where are you getting these figures from? Are you basing them of any facts at all, or are you just pulling them out of the air?

I think the same question applies to yourself.

BTW I have an in depth first hand knowledge of workshop overheads and would be happy to debate them with you if you care to post facts and figures to back up what you are saying……

Baggio...

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

You say you have similar overheads. Before you can say that you would have to know what the cost of overheads is to a workshop. Do you, and if so, how do you know this?

I take your point... Perhaps I wasn't too clear. I'm referring to a person who works as a mechanic for a workshop, or something similar. Sorry, I should have clarified that.

Still, even if you have major overheads, as a shop owner there's seems to be big disparity between prices (just from what is mentioned here) - can you explain why this is?

Again, I have no problem with paying a skilled mechanic a fair industry wage. But I would just like to know what I should be paying. As I was saying, I don't know that many people who can charge 90 euro an hour for their skills.

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

BTW I have an in depth first hand knowledge of workshop overheads and would be happy to debate them with you if you care to post facts and figures to back up what you are saying……

I'm sure you have... And I have to admit I couldn't argue this with you, as I don't possess the knowledge. However, I'm not really here for a debate on overheads. I'm just looking for what people should charge for their services.

Mr.Diagnostic

Baggio... wrote: »

Still, even if you have major overheads, as a shop owner there's seems to be big disparity between prices (just from what is mentioned here) - can you explain why this is?

Every garage will have different levels of overheads and run at different efficiencies. There is also a great variety of quality as well. This will have a direct bearing on what they charge.

Baggio... wrote: »

Again, I have no problem with paying a skilled mechanic a fair industry wage. But I would just like to know what I should be paying. As I was saying, I don't know that many people who can charge 90 euro an hour for their skills.

But a mechanic must work in a garage and with tools, equipment etc. Labour charges based on an industry standard wage for a mechanic would be great but could only work if overheads were free.

Baggio... wrote: »

I'm sure you have... And I have to admit I couldn't argue this with you, as I don't possess the knowledge. However, I'm not really here for a debate on overheads. I'm just looking for what people should charge for their services.

There is no such thing as a standard charge.
As a businessman I am sure you must appreciate that cost of sales has a direct bearing on the sale price.

Look at it this way. A garage is in the business of selling. The subject here in this thread is how much they should sell their time for. That would depend on the cost of it.
Also, like any business that sells anything, they can overprice it if they like. Its up to the customer to check out the value same as they would when buying anything else.

Baggio...

Mr.Diagnostic wrote: »

Look at it this way. A garage is in the business of selling. The subject here in this thread is how much they should sell their time for. That would depend on the cost of it. Also, like any business that sells anything, they can overprice it if they like. Its up to the customer to check out the value same as they would when buying anything else.

Yes, you're right of course... It's very hard to get a set "standard price" in any industry, as you correctly pointed out. Thanks for the reply.



Well, thanks to everyone for their help. Seems I have been overcharged somewhat according to the general consensus of replies. So I'll shop around and see if I can get a better deal.

Thanks,

Robert.

ninty9er

blue42 wrote: »

makes no real difference if its a clutch,timing belt, or head gasket..ect, it all charged at the same hourly rate...or at least should be!

I wouldn't be too happy being charged the same rate for an apprentice as a 10 year qualified mechanic. There is, or at least should be a massive disparity in the rate.

For example a trainee accountant will cost a client between €25-€35 an hour, their manager €80-€100 an hour, the director between €150 and €200 and the partner €300+ per hour charged out. None of those people see anywhere near that amount in their pay packet, but that's what it costs the client, due to the expertise provided.

Gurgle

maidhc wrote: »

A new decent clutch is going to be the bones of €300.

~€160 from www.irishautoparts.ie

maidhc wrote: »

That leaves €270 to split the car and install.

~2 hour job, €70 per hour (to cover rates and VAT) that would be €140 labour.

Total: €300

Yes, OP you were absolutely ridden.

blue42

ninty9er wrote: »

I wouldn't be too happy being charged the same rate for an apprentice as a 10 year qualified mechanic. There is, or at least should be a massive disparity in the rate.

For example a trainee accountant will cost a client between €25-€35 an hour, their manager €80-€100 an hour, the director between €150 and €200 and the partner €300+ per hour charged out. None of those people see anywhere near that amount in their pay packet, but that's what it costs the client, due to the expertise provided.

i take your point but sadly thats how it works in main dealerships garages,the apprentice dose a considerable amount of the the work,but its all charged out at full rate to the customer! my advice is steer clear of main dealers...no pun intented!:)

rockmax

do any body knows where to get the good servise for my 05 passat new shape i am realy confused abt that and my air bag light is also flashing on driver side. i spend 140 euro on sweeneys gaurage in dublin 8 the man there don':mad:t have clue and light is still on he is telling me to beypass it by cutting the wire i said to him are u mad to do that :eek:

TheUsual

maidhc wrote: »

People should try and build a relationship with their mechanic rather than getting excited about whether they were charged 30-40 too much. It works out better in the long run.

Bull****, I have a mechanic I don't kiss his ass and he doesn't want his ass kissed. A rare find. I will keep going back.
Don't accept stupid prices. And don't try and be friends with someone you meet once a year.

cock robin

maidhc wrote: »

Something small like a rounded bolt in an awkward place could cost you 2 hours of your time.

If your mechanic is taking two hours to remove a rounded bolt that he obviously rounded and then charging you the labour cost to remove it then you should have him killed slowly.