Leinster vs The Bulls

Size=everything

The Bulls vs Leinster who'd take it?

The best Europe has to offer against the best the Super 14 has to offer.

Leinster still have Rocky Elsom for the hypothetical by the way...

chupacabra

The Bulls. Easy answer.

Id have to go Bulls,but if it was in Dublin I think leinster would shade it.

Saffer teams dont travel well.

(I voted bulls)

SpAcEd OuT

I am not so sure its an easy Bulls win. Leinster have the top 2 players in the world starting for them with O'Driscoll and Rocky, one of the world's best Fullbacks with Kearney, the best 8 in the Northern Hemisphere in Heaslip and two Lions in Fitzgerald and D'arcy. You throw in a fit CJ into that mix and it *could* be very close.

Depp

go away from me, are you serious????

Depp

Depp wrote: »

go away from me, are you serious????

How much super 14 do you watch,id bet none.
Anwer quick who played the Bulls in the semi final?

remus808

You'd be suprised - Halfback and 2nd row are the only areas I would see the Bulls having a clear cut advantage: everywhere else Leinster are as good or better IMO. Especially in the backrow but the greater mobility of the Bulls 2nd row negates that to a degree.

From the HEC and S14 winning squads: (won't include Hines, Van Der Linde and Reddan - think what a difference that trio of names would make too)

15. Rob Kearney - Zane Kirchner
14. Isa Nacewa - Akona Ndungane
13. Brian O'Driscoll - Jaco Pretorius
12. Gordon D'Arcy - Wynand Olivier
11. Luke Fitzgerald - Bryan Habana
10. Johnny Sexton - Morné Steyn
9. Chris Whitaker - Fourie Du Preez
8. Jamie Heaslip - Pierre Spies
7. Shane Jennings - Dewald Potgieter
6. Rocky Elsom - Deon Stegmann
5. Malcolm O'Kelly - Victor Matfield
4. Leo Cullen - Bakkies Botha
3. Stan Wright - Werner Kruger
2. Bernard Jackman - Derick Kuün
1. Cian Healy - Gurthrö Steenkamp

Looking at that I would say we have the ADV in
- 2 of the back 3
- the centres
- flankers
- 1, maybe 2 props

[Jackass]

chupacabra wrote: »

The Bulls. Easy answer.

Rewind to the 1st May and if asked the question, who'll win between Leinster and Munster, I'm sure you could substitute Munster for the Bulls in the above statement, and that would have been your answer.

To be perfectly honest, I don't know who would win, but at the same time, there isn't a club side in the world Leinster (or indeed Munster) wouldn't have a chance against. Once you have players of the quality the likes of Munster or Leinster have, you have a chance against anybody.

Macsimus

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

the best 8 in the Northern Hemisphere in Heaslip.

That is a stretch - I really like Heaslip and would love to be able to say that about him at some point in the future. But for now, he's had one good season at the highest level, and still has a lot to prove before we can call him a better player than Parisse or Hari...

I got to go Bulls on this one, the High intensity offloading game they played in the final would devastate any defense north or south - though I'd hope we would keep the margin lower than the Crusaders did

Aidric

Size=everything wrote: »

The Bulls vs Leinster who'd take it?

Are you for real? The Bulls would do a demolition job on Leinster.

Size=everything

Aidric wrote: »

Are you for real? The Bulls would do a demolition job on Leinster.

I highly doubt that, the Leinster team of last season had some of the world's best players playing there. A 1/3 of the Leinster team would be regarded as some of the best players in the world in their respective positions and Leinster currently have quite possibly the most potent backline in club rugby.

Demolition job? :rolleyes:

Size=everything

karmabass wrote: »

You'd be suprised - Halfback and 2nd row are the only areas I would see the Bulls having a clear cut advantage: everywhere else Leinster are as good or better IMO. Especially in the backrow but the greater mobility of the Bulls 2nd row negates that to a degree.

From the HEC and S14 winning squads: (won't include Hines, Van Der Linde and Reddan - think what a difference that trio of names would make too)

15. Rob Kearney - Zane Kirchner
14. Isa Nacewa - Akona Ndungane
13. Brian O'Driscoll - Jaco Pretorius
12. Gordon D'Arcy - Wynand Olivier
11. Luke Fitzgerald - Bryan Habana
10. Johnny Sexton - Morné Steyn
9. Chris Whitaker - Fourie Du Preez
8. Jamie Heaslip - Pierre Spies -EVEN
7. Shane Jennings - Dewald Potgieter
6. Rocky Elsom - Deon Stegmann
5. Malcolm O'Kelly - Victor Matfield
4. Leo Cullen - Bakkies Botha
3. Stan Wright - Werner Kruger
2. Bernard Jackman - Derick Kuün
1. Cian Healy - Gurthrö Steenkamp

Looking at that I would say we have the ADV in
- 2 of the back 3
- the centres
- flankers
- 1, maybe 2 props

....

Hyperbullet

Size=everything wrote: »

I highly doubt that, the Leinster team of last season had some of the world's best players playing there. A 1/3 of the Leinster team would be regarded as some of the best players in the world in their respective positions and Leinster currently have quite possibly the most potent backline in club rugby.

Demolition job? :rolleyes:

What third exactly? Name the 5 players. Outside of O Driscoll, Elsom, and Heaslip I dont see how the rest of that squad are the best in the world in there respective positions. But thats my opinion.

Bulls by 12-15 points easily.

Stev_o

Steyn and Du Preez would kick Leinster out of it then Botha and Victor would do a job on the lineout followed by a over powering display by the forwards.

ch2008

How many of each teams players will square up in Croke Park? Might give an indication of a realistic outcome. Personally I think it would be close.

Size=everything

Hyperbullet wrote: »

What third exactly? Name the 5 players. Outside of O Driscoll, Elsom, and Heaslip I dont see how the rest of that squad are the best in the world in there respective positions. But thats my opinion.

Bulls by 12-15 points easily.

Kearney would be considered one of the top 3 full backs in the world whilst Luke Fitzgerald would be considered one of the best in the NH.

So thats :
Rocky
O'Driscoll
Heaslip
Kearney
Fitzgerald

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Steyn and Du Preez would kick Leinster out of it then Botha and Victor would do a job on the lineout followed by a over powering display by the forwards.

At the same time I could say Steyn and Du Preez would be kicking to one of the best full backs in the world and one of the most offensively excellent back 3 in club rugby. I could also mention how Leinster's 6,7,8 combination would very likely destroy the Bulls on the deck or how Leinster's centre partnership would punch holes through the Bulls. I really don't know how you can say the Bulls would overpower Leinster in the forwards when the only players better than a Leinster forward in the same position are Matfield and Botha.

Stev_o

Size=everything wrote: »

At the same time I could say Steyn and Du Preez would be kicking to one of the best full backs in the world and one of the most offensively excellent back 3 in club rugby. I could also mention how Leinster's 6,7,8 combination would very likely destroy the Bulls on the deck or how Leinster's centre partnership would punch holes through the Bulls. I really don't know how you can say the Bulls would overpower Leinster in the forwards when the only players better than a Leinster forward in the same position are Matfield and Botha.

I hoped you watched the 3N where Steyn and Du Preez kicked the worlds best fullback into tomorrow and pretty much killed off the threat of two of the worlds best wingers.

The battle of the deck would been in the Bulls favour, McCaw the worlds best openside failed to make any impression on the deck against that pack thus it's unlikely Leinster would.

Sorry but that Bulls teams would comfortably beat ANY NH team around.

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

I hoped you watched the 3N where Steyn and Du Preez kicked the worlds best fullback into tomorrow and pretty much killed off the threat of two of the worlds best wingers.

The battle of the deck would been in the Bulls favour, McCaw the worlds best openside failed to make any impression on the deck against that pack thus it's unlikely Leinster would.

Sorry but that Bulls teams would comfortably beat ANY NH team around.

New Zealand were absolutely woeful it had nothing to do with Steyn and Du Preez being able to outplay the back 3 and more to do with New Zealand have a terrible day at the office combined with bad conditions.

And I don't think anyone can disagree that when they played McCaw was not in form. If you don't think the likes of Rocky along with Heaslip and Jennings couldn't make an impression on the deck you are very misguided. Rocky is without doubt the best player in the world on the ground.

Stev_o

Stev_o wrote: »

I hoped you watched the 3N where Steyn and Du Preez kicked the worlds best fullback into tomorrow and pretty much killed off the threat of two of the worlds best wingers.

The battle of the deck would been in the Bulls favour, McCaw the worlds best openside failed to make any impression on the deck against that pack thus it's unlikely Leinster would.

Sorry but that Bulls teams would comfortably beat ANY NH team around.

After watching that match and the super 14 I can say with some confidence that both kearney and Bryne are miles ahead of mils.

He failed to dominate anything in the air and his kicking game is ****e,answer me why was Steven Donald having to go for the high balls and failing,where the **** was Mils?

Worlds best fulback my arse,if you go by 2009 its
1-Kearney
2-Byrne
3-Mils


If the Final had been in NZ I dont even think the Bulls would have won,Home advantage counts for so much its nearly impossible to say who would win but the Bulls would take that SH cockness in and would have nothing to fear which gives them the edge.

Player wise

15. Rob Kearney - Zane Kirchner
14. Isa Nacewa - Akona Ndungane
13. Brian O'Driscoll - Jaco Pretorius
12. Gordon D'Arcy - Wynand Olivier
11. Luke Fitzgerald - Bryan Habana
10. Johnny Sexton - Morné Steyn
9. Chris Whitaker - Fourie Du Preez
8. Jamie Heaslip - Pierre Spies
7. Shane Jennings - Dewald Potgieter
6. Rocky Elsom - Deon Stegmann
5. Malcolm O'Kelly - Victor Matfield
4. Leo Cullen - Bakkies Botha
3. Stan Wright - Werner Kruger
2. Bernard Jackman - Derick Kuün
1. Cian Healy - Gurthrö Steenkamp

Leinster -8
Bulls-7

Thats how I see it anyway but you have to take into account the location of the match.
SOme of the Bulls players are utterly overrated like the ever ****e Steenkamp and their whole back 5 bar habana.

Thats how I see it

Size=everything

Hayes Chubby Finch wrote: »

15. Rob Kearney - Zane Kirchner
14. Isa Nacewa - Akona Ndungane
13. Brian O'Driscoll - Jaco Pretorius
12. Gordon D'Arcy - Wynand Olivier
11. Luke Fitzgerald - Bryan Habana
10. Johnny Sexton - Morné Steyn
9. Chris Whitaker - Fourie Du Preez
8. Jamie Heaslip - Pierre Spies
7. Shane Jennings - Dewald Potgieter
6. Rocky Elsom - Deon Stegmann
5. Malcolm O'Kelly - Victor Matfield
4. Leo Cullen - Bakkies Botha
3. Stan Wright - Werner Kruger
2. Bernard Jackman - Derick Kuün
1. Cian Healy - Gurthrö Steenkamp

Leinster -8
Bulls-7

See this is why I don't understand why some here are claiming The Bulls would demolish Leinster. On paper Leinster are superior and have without doubt the 2 best players in the world in their starting 15.

danthefan

Depends where it was played. High Veldt then Bulls would be very very strong favourites, in the RDS Leinster can beat anyone imo.

leeroybrown

I went for The Bulls but not by much. If you had both sides best 22, both playing the standard of rugby they reached at the end of last season and using a set of rules they were accustomed to, then The Bulls would shade it due to their power and kicking game.

Size=everything

Stev_o wrote: »

Sorry but that Bulls teams would comfortably beat ANY NH team around.

In fairness the form Leinster reached at the end of the season was streets ahead of the closest NH teams. Would the Bulls comfortably beat every other NH team? Yes but would they beat Leinster in that kind of form? In my eyes its a close call and either could edge it.

chupacabra

SpAcEd OuT wrote: »

the best 8 in the Northern Hemisphere in Heaslip

You having a laugh? Harinorduquy (cant be arsed to spell it properly) and Parisee are better than him. He could grow into one of the best tho.

The battle of the packs would be really interesting. No doubt Leinster have it in the front row except for Hooker, Kuun is a very underrated player. Second row, no contest, Bulls all the way. And back row.. Potgieter has it on Jennings and Spies is incredibly over-rated so id say we are even with maybe a little edge to Heaslip as he is a savage tackler and is superior at ruck time. And Stegmann... wouldn't stand a donkeys chance against Rocky or even Sean O'Brien. And as for the backs, a lot is said about Steyn and Du Preez' kicking game, but with Kearney at full back it is completely negated, the man is simply world class. Sextons tactical kicking has been sublime for leinster and i reckon a few up and under's under Kirchner with Fitzy chasing them down would shut his game down fairly quickly.... Habana is something else tho, and with him flying down the wing to chase the restarts he is always dangerous. The centers are no contest but you have to say in a beauty contest Olivier would single handedly blow BOD and Darce out of it. Handsome bastard.

danthefan

Heaslip and Hairdonkey* came up against each other in the 6N, Heaslip came out on top and won MotM in fact. He also had a very good game against Italy. Parisse might be better but I wouldn't have Hairydonkey ahead of him.

* I can't spell his name, sorry.

anonymous_joe

danthefan wrote: »

Heaslip and Hairdonkey* came up against each other in the 6N, Heaslip came out on top and won MotM in fact. He also had a very good game against Italy. Parisse might be better but I wouldn't have Hairydonkey ahead of him.

* I can't spell his name, sorry.

Imanol Harinordoquy I think.

In my mind, the Leinster HC team versus the Blue Bulls S14 Finals team would depend on one factor firstly;

- venue - no-one seemed to mention at the time the massive effect playing at home at altitude had for them.

Assuming an even plain in terms of conditions, I'd give a narrow win to the Bulls, because, like South Africa versus the Lions, the two teams would be much more even than anyone anticipated, but Morne Steyn and Du Preez would be good enough to edge them ahead.

handsomecake

bulls easy. no contest

wixfjord

handsomecake wrote: »

bulls easy. no contest

Why do you think that? Give us some analysis because thats a big statement to make.

For me, all conditions being equal i.e. not at altitude or not in December in the R.D.S. the Bulls by a few points.

anonymous_joe

handsomecake wrote: »

bulls easy. no contest

They've some shíte players though. (As do Leinster. In the grand scheme of things obviously.)

I mean, they've got Morne Steyn, whose well on the way to proving himself as world class, we've got Sexton whose trying to do the same but in all fairness is a bit behind him.

But I mean, Zane Kirchner? He was crap. Ndungane's decent, but no better nor worse than Shaggy or Nacewa, while Habana's great, but then, Luke Fitzgerald's hardly a weak link.

Same with the pack, we all know Botha and Matfield are great, but what about their front row? Or their back row for that matter? They're not bad, not at all, but not exceptional. I'd definitely have Elsom, Jennings and Heaslip over Stegman, Potgieter and Spies.

ScrubsfanChris

The results on the poll so far says it all.

ScrubsfanChris

Look I am going with Bulls if its in SA and Leinster if its in Ireland.

When the Bulls won the super 14 it was in the high velt,at altitude which helps them.

Look at SA record in the tri nations and against Ireland in recent years,fair enough they have a marvelous first 15,but the depth aint that big and the Bulls have alot of **** players.

Their centres wouldnt even make the Leinster bench,nor ndungani or kirshner.
50/50.

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

The results on the poll so far says it all.

I bet you have never watched a game of super 14 in your life,like the majority of idiots talking crap in this thread.

anonymous_joe

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

The results on the poll so far says it all.

You'd have gotten similar results for the Munster-Leinster game tbh.

Keep in mind that I'm a diehard Leinster fan who thinks they could win but on the balance of things the half-backs of Steyn and du Preez would give the Bulls the edge.

Then there's the S14 fans who just assume a S14 is in some ways amazing.

Crash

anonymous_joe wrote: »

You'd have gotten similar results for the Munster-Leinster game tbh.

Keep in mind that I'm a diehard Leinster fan who thinks they could win but on the balance of things the half-backs of Steyn and du Preez would give the Bulls the edge.

Then there's the S14 fans who just assume a S14 is in some ways amazing.

Pretty much my view on it - all things even it would be close, but the halfback pairing would make the difference for the bulls.

yupyup7up

Why is this even a thread? The Bulls would HAMMER Leinster. Leinster's stand out performer of 08/09 was Elsom and he's back in AUS. Their kicking would be far better, you wouldn't win ANY lineout ball and they would be far more physical. Did you watch the S14 final? Leinster barely beat a crap Leicester team in the H-Cup final! and I'd like to point out that Munster are still the best team in europe, followed by Leicester and THEN Leinster :rolleyes: oh ya, and which idiot thinks Fitzgerald is better than Habana on the wing? are you mental?

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/121_9900.php

I think it will be between the Bull and Crusaders this year. Carter is back so should be interesting...

sock puppet

yupyup7up wrote: »

Why is this even a thread? The Bulls would HAMMER Leinster. Leinster's stand out performer of 08/09 was Elsom and he's back in AUS. Their kicking would be far better, you wouldn't win ANY lineout ball and they would be far more physical. Did you watch the S14 final? Leinster barely beat a crap Leicester team in the H-Cup final! and I'd like to point out that Munster are still the best team in europe, followed by Leicester and THEN Leinster :rolleyes: oh ya, and which idiot thinks Fitzgerald is better than Habana on the wing? are you mental?

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/121_9900.php

I think it will be between the Bull and Crusaders this year. Carter is back so should be interesting...

Interesting. I've always been of the opinion that Clermont were a better team than the Saracens. I guess you've showed me though.

Riskymove

anonymous_joe wrote: »

They've some shíte players though. (As do Leinster. In the grand scheme of things obviously.)

oh come on now...its that kind of cheap comment that leads to rows all over this forum

neither the bulls or leinster have "****e" players

they may not all be world class but none of them are "****e"

Four-Percent

Why is there even a thread on this?

Leinster aren't even the best team in Europe, how can they be expected to match the Bulls?

I doubt Munster could do it either.

smurphy29

You'd have to think if they played 10 times the Bulls would win more, but Leinster would have a shot at the RDS. People have short memories though - we all recall how brilliant Leinster were against Munster and when we finally got our back-line moving at the end of the season, but watching the Chamipions of Europe DVD just brought back the full horror of the Dr Hyde version of Leinster... there was, after all, a reason why Munster were so heavily favoured in the semi-final. Just how bad did we look in the games against Edinburgh at home, Wasps away and Castres home and away? The Bulls would eat us for breakfast if we played like that, Rocky or no Rocky.

wixfjord

sock puppet wrote: »

Interesting. I've always been of the opinion that Clermont were a better team than the Saracens. I guess you've showed me though.

I think the fact that Biarritz are above Cardiff and Perpignan, not to mention Ospreys Irish and Stade proves these rankings are useless in determining who the best in Europe is at the one time. That was a fairly ill informed post by yup7up.

wixfjord

handsomecake wrote: »

bulls easy. no contest

Im still waiting for analysis on this there handsome..

yupyup7up

well its not ill informed. these rankings are based on european club rugby team performance since the 05/06 season. it shows consistency(or lack there of) of the teams. I agree with your man above that Clermont are class but they are a very inconsistent team (probably by putting out rubbish 2nd string teams half the time). Whoever thinks that Leinster were top class against munster is also mental. I was at the game and munster didnt even play. theres no denying the fact that munster didnt deserve to win, but leinster only managed 25 points up on a munster team that wasnt even trying? Id say Munster would stick to the Bulls but Id be VERY worried! Leinster will crash out at the pool stage this year. I can see them F*cking up against scarlets and london irish away and possibly a close encounter with brive..

Stev_o

Please Please PLEASE lets not go down the Munster vs Leinster route ffs.

Look if you want to look at the form of the two teams at the point of the semi's and final then the Bulls clearly win, if you look at the whole campaign they are about even with bout tripping and stumbling along the way. But for what it's worth the Bulls managed to destroy a Crusaders side that was only missing Carter and then put away a Chiefs side that was the most in form team of the S14. It's nothing against Leinster but the Bulls would comfortably beat any side in the world on the form they were playing with during those two matches.

anonymous_joe

Riskymove wrote: »

oh come on now...its that kind of cheap comment that leads to rows all over this forum

neither the bulls or leinster have "****e" players

they may not all be world class but none of them are "****e"

I said in the grand scheme of things. :P

Rob Kearney's a hell of a lot better than Zane Kirchner, Potgieter and Jennings wouldn't be rated as highly (or Stegmann) as Heaslip, Spies and Elsom, Du Preez and Steyn are a cut above Sexton and Whits. Our front row (especially if we had CJ) would be better than theirs. Our centres would be better. By shíte I mean, not world-class international. Yes that's being unfair, but we are talking about a hypothetical biggest club game in rugby.

smurphy29 wrote: »

You'd have to think if they played 10 times the Bulls would win more, but Leinster would have a shot at the RDS. People have short memories though - we all recall how brilliant Leinster were against Munster and when we finally got our back-line moving at the end of the season, but watching the Chamipions of Europe DVD just brought back the full horror of the Dr Hyde version of Leinster... there was, after all, a reason why Munster were so heavily favoured in the semi-final. Just how bad did we look in the games against Edinburgh at home, Wasps away and Castres home and away? The Bulls would eat us for breakfast if we played like that, Rocky or no Rocky.

Ah yeah, we were a bit shíte, but the Wasps home game wasn't bad either.

yupyup7up wrote: »

well its not ill informed. these rankings are based on european club rugby team performance since the 05/06 season. it shows consistency(or lack there of) of the teams. I agree with your man above that Clermont are class but they are a very inconsistent team (probably by putting out rubbish 2nd string teams half the time). Whoever thinks that Leinster were top class against munster is also mental. I was at the game and munster didnt even play. theres no denying the fact that munster didnt deserve to win, but leinster only managed 25 points up on a munster team that wasnt even trying? Id say Munster would stick to the Bulls but Id be VERY worried! Leinster will crash out at the pool stage this year. I can see them F*cking up against scarlets and london irish away and possibly a close encounter with brive..

You think Munster weren't trying? :P

Amazotheamazing

The real place to ask this question would be on the planet rugby forum where there's a good number of South African posters. All you're ever going to get here is a "Leinster are great, oh no, I hate Leinster they are crap" debate.

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I said in the grand scheme of things. :P

Rob Kearney's a hell of a lot better than Zane Kirchner, Potgieter and Jennings wouldn't be rated as highly (or Stegmann) as Heaslip, Spies and Elsom, Du Preez and Steyn are a cut above Sexton and Whits. Our front row (especially if we had CJ) would be better than theirs. Our centres would be better. By shíte I mean, not world-class international. Yes that's being unfair, but we are talking about a hypothetical biggest club game in rugby.
P

So are we allowed to presume that CJ would play would that mean then you'd have to pencil out Elsom, im well confused. Are we basing the probability of who would find based on both teams most remarkable performances or just a fantasy thing

Different thing though Joe is that while the Bulls front row isn't any spectacular (beside Kunn) they are powered by the two best locks around and we all saw from the Lions series the difference between them versus a mediocre second row pairing and a good one with some brunt and i think Leinster would fall into the first category don't really think that Cullen and Mal are exceptional engines nor is Toner.

Size=everything

yupyup7up wrote: »

Why is this even a thread? The Bulls would HAMMER Leinster. Leinster's stand out performer of 08/09 was Elsom and he's back in AUS. Their kicking would be far better, you wouldn't win ANY lineout ball and they would be far more physical. Did you watch the S14 final? Leinster barely beat a crap Leicester team in the H-Cup final! and I'd like to point out that Munster are still the best team in europe, followed by Leicester and THEN Leinster :rolleyes: oh ya, and which idiot thinks Fitzgerald is better than Habana on the wing? are you mental?

http://www.ercrugby.com/eng/121_9900.php

I think it will be between the Bull and Crusaders this year. Carter is back so should be interesting...

As I have already stated Elsom is included in Leinster's starting 15 for the hypothetical match. The Bulls kicking may be better but they are kicking it to one of the best full backs in world rugby and one of the best back 3s in club rugby. Lineouts would be lost but Leinster would certainly have more advantage in the scrum and as for being more physical I would take Elsom, Jennings and Heaslip over their back 3 any day on the deck Leinster would certainly have an advantage. Also who said Fitzgerald is better than Habanna could you provide me the source please??

As for your ranking, lol. So Munster a team Leinster thrashed in the semi finals and Leicester a team Leinster beat in the final are better than Leinster??? Come off it. On 2009 form Leinster are the best in Europe simple as and if they had the form they showed towards the end of the season they would run the bulls very close.

To reiterate :

Our front row is better,
Our backrow is better,
Our back 3 is better,
Our centres are better.



So how is it we get thrashed? :rolleyes:

sock puppet

Size=everything wrote: »

As I have already stated Elsom is included in Leinster's starting 15 for the hypothetical match. The Bulls kicking may be better but they are kicking it to one of the best full backs in world rugby and one of the best back 3s in club rugby. Lineouts would be lost but Leinster would certainly have more advantage in the scrum and as for being more physical I would take Elsom, Jennings and Heaslip over their back 3 any day on the deck Leinster would certainly have an advantage. Also who said Fitzgerald is better than Habanna could you provide me the source please??

As for your ranking, lol. So Munster a team Leinster thrashed in the semi finals and Leicester a team Leinster beat in the final are better than Leinster??? Come off it. On 2009 form Leinster are the best in Europe simple as and if they had the form they showed towards the end of the season they would run the bulls very close.

To reiterate :

Our front row is better,
Our backrow is better,
Our back 3 is better,
Our centres are better.



So how is it we get thrashed? :rolleyes:

Don't know about the back 3. I'd say Ospreys' and Cardiff's are better and that's just from the ML. Nacewa's a good enough winger but he's hardly outstanding. All of his good performances this season imo came from fullback.

Four-Percent

Size=everything wrote: »

Our backrow is better,

That's fair enough, no argument from me there.

Size=everything wrote: »

Our back 3 is better,

Not so sure here.Habana is better than Horgan, and Ndungane is fantastic on his day.He could easily match or beat fitzgerald.Kearney/Nacewa, however is better than Kirchner, so I'll go for an even match here.

Size=everything wrote: »

Our centres are better.

Again, no argument from me.

So that gives Leinster an advantage in the Back row, centres and front row, while Bulls have a much bigger advantage in the 2nd row and halfbacks which are the most important positions in a team.

With a strong 2nd row the Bulls will dominate the lineout, and strong halfbacks will control the game.

The back 3 will be an even battle, but Kearney will kick all day if his recent outings are anything to go by.This will be mana from heaven for Kirchner who is a great runner.

I reckon the Bulls would have the advantage in the loose,in the kicking game and at the lineout, while Leinster will have the advantage at the scrum and an advantage at the rucks with Elsom.

Both teams could win if they stick to the right gameplan but IMO it's fair to say the bulls would win by 3 or 6, possibly more if someone goes to the bin.

RuggieBear

yupyup7up don't post again on this thread.

If you bring up leinster-munster ****e again on this forum you will not be posting here for a long time.

Size=everything

Four-Percent wrote: »

Not so sure here.Habana is better than Horgan, and Ndungane is fantastic on his day.He could easily match or beat fitzgerald.Kearney/Nacewa, however is better than Kirchner, so I'll go for an even match here.

Habanna is better than Horgan/Nacewa of that there is no doubt. However Fitzgerald is far superior to Ndungane and Kearney is streets ahead of Kirchner. Leinster most definitely have the advantage in the back 3.

So that gives Leinster an advantage in the Back row, centres and front row, while Bulls have a much bigger advantage in the 2nd row and halfbacks which are the most important positions in a team.

Great half back pairing but both player's kicking is a lot less effective when they are kicking to the likes of Rob Kearney and with the broken field running of a combination of Nacewa - Kearney - Fitzgerald.

The back 3 will be an even battle, but Kearney will kick all day if his recent outings are anything to go by.This will be mana from heaven for Kirchner who is a great runner.

When Kearney kicks he has no problem making touch and making it deep. If Nacewa or Fitzgerald gets their hands on the ball in broken field play then the Bulls are going to have a serious problem especially with Nacewa. If Kearney's recent kicking is anything to go by on the contray The Bulls might want to change their strategy unless they want to find themselves back under pressure in their own 22 with the kind of returns Kearney is notorious for.

I reckon the Bulls would have the advantage in the loose,in the kicking game and at the lineout, while Leinster will have the advantage at the scrum and an advantage at the rucks with Elsom.

Once again I'm going to have to disagree. Our entire front row is extremely capable in the loose especially the likes of Cian Healy which is extremely rare. The likes of Jennings, Elsom and Heaslip are extremely capable of quickly getting around the pitch and supporting. Defensively we have the best defensive players in world rugby to have ever played in O'Driscoll. I just can't see them having an advantage in the loose

Both teams could win if they stick to the right gameplan but IMO it's fair to say the bulls would win by 3 or 6, possibly more if someone goes to the bin.

I agree but saying things such as Leisnter would get thrashed,hammered,demolished etc. is just plain wrong when you consider that on paper both sides are equal in strength and in fact
one could argue Leinster are stronger.


I don't know if its because people dislike Leinster or simply that they think that every team in the Super 14 are unstoppable but it would be a close call and not an easy win for the Bulls as people here are laughably suggesting.