New Statutory Instruments

Sparks

Like busses, you wait for ages and then eight show up at once...

S.I. No. 293 of 2009
CRIMINAL JUSTICE (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) ACT 2009 (COMMENCEMENT) ORDER 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 1(3) of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009), hereby order as follows:

1. This Order may be cited as the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (Commencement) Order 2009.
2. The 27 July 2009 is appointed as the day on which section 28 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009) shall come into operation.

GIVEN under my Official Seal,
27 July 2009.

S.I. No. 295 of 2009
FIREARMS ACTS 1925 TO 2009 (FIREARM CERTIFICATE) REGULATIONS 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 3(3) (as inserted by section 28 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provision) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009)) and section 27 (as inserted by section 50 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925), hereby make the following regulations:

1. (1) These regulations may be cited as the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2009 (Firearm Certificate) Regulations 2009.
(2) These regulations come into operation on 27 July 2009.
2. In these Regulations-

"Act of 1925" means the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925);
"Act of 2009" means the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009);
"first group" has the meaning assigned to it by Regulation 4;
"group" means a group of relevant firearms certificates established under paragraph (a) of section 3(3) of the Act of 1925;
"section 3(3) of the Act of 1925" means section 3(3) (as inserted by section 28 of the Act of 2009) of the Act of 1925.

3. The number of groups, including the first group, which the Commissioner shall establish for the purposes of paragraph (a) of section 3(3) of the Act of 1925 is 9.
4. The first group established shall be known as "the first group" and each subsequent group shall be numbered in accordance with the order in which it is established.
5. The Commissioner shall assign relevant firearm certificates to each group (other than the first group) in a manner that-

(a) is random, and
(b) ensures, insofar as is practicable, that an equal number of certificates is assigned to each such group.

6. The firearm certificates assigned, in accordance with paragraph (c) of section 3(3) of the Act of 1925, to the first group shall continue in force until 31 October 2009.
7. The firearm certificates assigned, in accordance with paragraph (b) of section 3(3) of the Act of 1925, to the groups other than the first group shall continue in force in accordance with Regulation 8.
8. The firearm certificates assigned to a group mentioned in column (2) of the Schedule at any reference number shall continue in force until the date mentioned in column (3) of the Schedule opposite that reference number.

SCHEDULE

Ref. No.|Group|Date of expiry
(1)| (2)| (3)
1 |2nd |30 November 2009
2 |3rd |31 December 2009
3 |4th |31 January 2010
4 |5th |28 February 2010
5 |6th |31 March 2010
6 |7th |30 April 2010
7 |8th |31 May 2010
8 |9th |30 June 2010

GIVEN under my Official Seal,
27 July 2009.

S.I. No. 307 of 2009
FIREARMS (SECURE ACCOMMODATION) REGULATIONS 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by subsection (5) of section 4 (inserted by section 32 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925), and after consultation with the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana, hereby make the following regulations:
1. These Regulations may be cited as the Firearms (Secure Accommodation) Regulations 2009.
2. These Regulations come into operation on 1 August 2009.
3. In these Regulations-

"British Standard" means a specification published by the British Standards Institution;
"BS 3621" means British Standard 3621, entitled "Thief resistant lock assembly. Key egress";
"BS 7558" means British Standard 7558, entitled "Specification for gun cabinets";
"I.S. EN 50131" means Irish Standard EN 50131 of the National Standards Authority of Ireland;
"non-restricted", in relation to a firearm, means a firearm that is not a restricted firearm;

4. The holders of firearm certificates in respect of firearms of the types and numbers mentioned in column (2) of the Schedule at any reference number shall comply with the minimum standards in relation to the provision of secure accommodation for those firearms specified in column (3) opposite that reference number.

SCHEDULE

|Type and number of firearms| Secure accommodation standard
1 |One non-restricted shot-gun.| The shot-gun shall be disassembled and each part shall be stored securely and separately when not in use. The trigger housing shall be secured against use with an appropriate trigger lock.
2 |One restricted firearm or three or fewer non-restricted firearms. |Each firearm shall be stored securely in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.
3 |Two restricted firearms, or more than three non-restricted firearms. | Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure. The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the place shall be fitted with locks which comply with BS 3621.
4 |Three or more restricted firearms or six or more firearms, of any type, kept in the same place. | In addition to the standards specified at reference number 3, the place in which the firearms are stored shall have an intruder alarm system, installed and maintained by installers licensed by the Private Security Authority, which complies with I.S. EN 50131 or an equivalent standard approved by the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana. The alarm shall be connected to a monitoring service, operated by a person licensed by the Private Security Authority, and supported with GSM Mobile telephone service back up signalling facilities.

GIVEN under my Official Seal,
1 August 2009.

More to follow...

Sparks, is there a way to check online if my cabinet conforms to that standard?

Sparks

And the rest:

S.I. No. 308 of 2009
FIREARMS (AUTHORISATION OF RIFLE OR PISTOL CLUBS) REGULATIONS 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 4A (inserted by section 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925), and after consultation with the Commissioner of the Garda Siochana, hereby make the following regulations:

1. (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Firearms (Authorisation of Rifle or Pistol Clubs) Regulations 2009.
(2) These Regulations shall come into operation on 1 August 2009.

2. In these Regulations-

"Act of 1925" means the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925);
"Act of 2006" means the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006);
"authorisation" means an authorisation under section 4A (as inserted by section 33 of the Act of 2006) of the Act of 1925;
"club" means a rifle or pistol club;
"conditions", in relation to an authorisation, means any conditions attached to an authorisation under subsection (8) of section 4A (inserted by section 33 of the Act of 2006) of the Act of 1925;
"nominated representative" means an individual appointed by a club in accordance with Regulation 5.

3. The minimum standards to be complied with by a club before an authorisation may be granted in respect of it are specified in Regulations 4 and 5.

4. (1) The members of the club shall be of good character.
(2) No fewer than 5 members of the club shall each hold a firearm certificate which is in force.
(3) The club shall have a written constitution, which shall include provisions requiring-

(a) that each member be of good character,
(b) that each member pay an annual membership fee,
(c) that-

(i) members, and
(ii) persons who are not members but who attend events organised by the club,

shall conduct themselves in accordance with the constitution,
(d) that persons referred to in subparagraph (c) who attend events organised by the club at a shooting range shall abide by the rules, if any, of that shooting range,
(e) that when a member is notified of the revocation of his or her firearm certificate he or she shall immediately notify in writing the nominated representative of that fact,
(f) that a person who applies for the first time for membership of the club shall make that application in writing to the nominated representative and shall give the names of a proposer and seconder, both of whom shall be members of the club.

(4) A club shall not run any day or temporary membership schemes.

5. (1) The club shall appoint a nominated representative who shall be a member of the club and who shall perform the functions specified in these regulations.
(2) It shall be the duty of the nominated representative to ensure that the club-

(a) complies with these Regulations,
(b) complies with any conditions attached to an authorisation granted in respect of the club,
(c) does not permit its members, while on club premises or attending an event organised by the club, to use a firearm for any purpose other than that of promoting skill in the use of rifles and pistols for target shooting.

(3) The nominated representative shall liaise with the Garda Siochana in relation to the compliance by the club with these Regulations and with any conditions attached to an authorisation granted in respect of the club, and shall meet with a member of the Garda Siochana of the rank of superintendent or his or her representative, whenever requested by the Garda Siochana to do so.
(4) A club shall maintain a register which shall include-

(a) the name, address, date of birth and membership card number of each member,
(b) the details of every firearm certificate held by each member,
(c) the name, address, date of birth and firearm certificate number of each person using a firearm at an event organised by the club,
(d) an attendance record in relation to each member,
(e) the name of each member who holds a firearm certificate and who has not participated in any of the shooting functions organised by the club in the preceding 6 months.

(5) All records maintained by a club pursuant to these regulations shall be-

(a) retained by the club for a period of at least 6 years, and
(b) made available for inspection by a member of the Garda Siochana upon request by that member.

(6) The authorisation granted in respect of a club shall be displayed in a prominent place at the premises of the club and shall be made available for inspection by a member of the Garda Siochana upon request by that member.

GIVEN under my Official Seal,
1 August 2009.

S.I. No. 309 of 2009
CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT 2006 (COMMENCEMENT) ORDER 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 1(2) of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006), hereby order as follows:

1. This Order may be cited as the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (Commencement) Order 2009.
2. The 1st day of August 2009 is appointed as the day on which sections 28, 30, 32 and 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006) shall come into operation.
GIVEN under my Official Seal,
1 August 2009.

S.I. No. 310 of 2009
CRIMINAL JUSTICE (MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS) ACT 2009 (COMMENCEMENT) (NO. 2) ORDER 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 1(3) of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009), hereby order as follows:

1. This Order may be cited as the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (Commencement) (No. 2) Order 2009.
2. In this Order,

"Act of 2009" means the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009).

3. The 1st August 2009 is appointed as the day on which-

(a) Part 1,
(b) sections 25 to 27,
(c) sections 29 to 33,
(d) sections 35, 37 and 39,
(e) section 40 (insofar as it inserts sections 9A and 9B of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 (No. 12 of 1990)), and
(f) sections 41 to 44,

of the Act of 2009 shall come into operation.
4. The 1st January 2010 is appointed as the day on which section 34 of the Act of 2009 shall come into operation.
GIVEN under my Official Seal,
1 August 2009.

S.I. No. 311 of 2009
FIREARMS ACT 1925 (PRESCRIBED FIREARM CERTIFICATES) REGULATIONS 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by section 3B (as inserted by section 30 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 (No. 28 of 2009)) and section 27 (as inserted by section 50 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925), hereby make the following regulations:

1. (1) These regulations may be cited as the Firearms Act 1925 (Prescribed Firearm Certificates) Regulations 2009.
(2) These regulations come into operation on 1 August 2009.

2. In these Regulations-

"Act of 1925" means the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925);
"Act of 2000" means the Firearms (Firearm Certificates for Non-Residents) Act 2000 (No. 20 of 2000);
"prescribed fee" means a fee prescribed under Regulation 5;
"prescribed firearm certificate" means a firearm certificate prescribed under Regulation 3.

3. The following firearm certificates are prescribed for the purposes of section 3B of the Act of 1925:

(a) a firearms training certificate;
(b) a restricted firearm certificate;
(c) any other firearm certificate granted under the Act of 1925, other than a firearm certificate granted under the Act of 2000.

4. Where a prescribed firearm certificate is to be issued, granted or renewed, as the case may be, a notice in relation to the payment of the prescribed fee, in the form set out in Schedule 1, shall be sent to the applicant concerned.
5. There shall be charged in respect of the issue, grant or renewal of each prescribed firearms certificate set out in column (1) of Schedule 2 the fee set out in column (2) opposite mention of that firearm certificate.
6. A prescribed fee shall be paid to An Post.
7. The payment of a prescribed fee shall be made within the date specified in the notice referred to in Regulation 4, and may be made-

(a) in any post office,
(b) by post, or
(c) by telephone or internet, in accordance with procedures established by An Post.

Sparks wrote:

Schedule 1 attached to this is the actual letter the Gardai send back to you; it's got logos and graphics aplenty, so I've not copied it to here, check the attached PDF for it.

SCHEDULE 2

|Prescribed Firearm Certificate|Fee (euro)
1|Firearm Certificate (other than a firearms training certificate or a restricted firearm certificate)| 80
2|Firearms Training Certificate | 40
3|Restricted Firearm Certificate|80

The Minister for Finance consents to the making of the foregoing order.
GIVEN under the Official Seal of the Minister for Finance,
30 July 2009.

S.I. No. 312 of 2009
FIREARMS (FEES) REGULATIONS 2009

I, DERMOT AHERN, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in exercise of the powers conferred on me by sections 4A (as inserted by section 33 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006)), 9 (as amended by section 6 of the Firearms Act 1971 (No. 13 of 1971)), 10 (4A) (as inserted by section 39 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006) and 27 (as inserted by section 50 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006) of the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925) and section 2 of the Firearms (Firearm Certificates for Non-Residents) Act 2000 (No. 20 of 2000), with the consent of the Minister for Finance, hereby make the following regulations:

1. (1) These Regulations may be cited as the Firearms (Fees) Regulations 2009.
(2) These Regulations come into operation on 1 August 2009.

2. In these Regulations-

"Act of 1925" means the Firearms Act 1925 (No. 17 of 1925);
"Act of 2006" means the Criminal Justice Act 2006 (No. 26 of 2006);
"authorisation of a rifle or pistol club or shooting range" means an authorisation under section 4A (as inserted by section 33 of the Act of 2006) of the Act of 1925;
"authorisation to deal in restricted firearms" means an authorisation referred to in subsection 4A (as inserted by section 39 of the Act of 2006) of section 10 of the Act of 1925;
"non-resident's firearm certificate" means a firearm certificate granted under section 2 of the Firearms (Firearm Certificates for Non-Residents) Act 2000 (No. 20 of 2000);
"registration of ammunition-only firearms dealer" means the registration of a person in the register of firearms dealers subject to the condition referred to in subsection (8) of section 9 of the Act of 1925;
"registration of firearms dealer" means the registration of a person in the register of firearms dealers under section 9 of the Act of 1925.

3. There shall be charged in respect of each matter specified in column (1) of the Schedule, the fee specified in column (2) opposite mention of the matter.

SCHEDULE

FIREARMS REGISTRATION, CERTIFICATE AND AUTHORISATIONS FEES
Matter|Fee (euro)
Authorisation of a rifle or pistol club or shooting range|1,000
Registration of firearms dealer| 1,000
Authorisation to deal in restricted firearms| 500
Registration of ammunition-only firearms dealer| 75
Grant of non-resident's firearm certificate|40

The Minister for Finance consents to the making of the foregoing Regulations.
GIVEN under the Official Seal of the Minister for Finance,
30 July 2009.
BRIAN LENIHAN,
Minister for Finance.
GIVEN under my Official Seal,
1 August 2009.

Sparks

And thread reopened (sorry Zara, I just knew it'd take a few minutes to get both those posts out and I wanted to keep them together at the top for people).
And yes, there's a way - there should be a kitemark stamp on your safe somewhere indicating that it passed the standard. If it doesn't have that stamp, you can't really say it passed it (though what you do about equivalent ISO standards, I'm not sure). Kitemark will look like this:

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

And thread reopened (sorry Zara, I just knew it'd take a few minutes to get both those posts out and I wanted to keep them together at the top for people).
And yes, there's a way - there should be a kitemark stamp on your safe somewhere indicating that it passed the standard. If it doesn't have that stamp, you can't really say it passed it (though what you do about equivalent ISO standards, I'm not sure). Kitemark will look like this:

Cool, I also googled the safe and it seems it passes. Will check for the kitemark.

Half-cocked

I can see there is going to be a run on gun safes in the coming weeks/months. Got to check mine for a kitemark when I get home, if it's not there I'll have to go shopping before i reapply.

G17

That GSM backup alarm is an expensive doozy €12.50 a month (extra) and €149 install based on the last quote I got from a large monitoring company, plus any sim card mandatory top ups.

Also I'm wondering if the €1000 is paid once for range and once for club authorisation, just thinking out loud....

Sparks

G17 wrote: »

Also I'm wondering if the €1000 is paid once for range and once for club authorisation, just thinking out loud....

That's almost definitely a yes given how the other form's laid out, as RRPC noted earlier

G17

Sparks wrote: »

That's almost definitely a yes given how the other form's laid out, as RRPC noted earlier

Allow me, YOWSER!:eek:

Hezz700

Thanks Sparks, on the ball as usual.:)

Sparks

Hezz700 wrote: »

Thanks Sparks, on the ball as usual.:)

It's not me personally y'know! I just get sent stuff to pass on...

G17

Sparks wrote: »

It's not me personally y'know! I just get sent stuff to pass on...

And humility, gosh, what a spunk truffle!

Anything about the 'references'?

Sparks

Deleted User wrote: »

Anything about the 'references'?

They'll be covered in the commissioner's guidelines I think Zara. I've heard nothing about them yet.

G17 wrote: »

And humility, gosh, what a spunk truffle!

Not humility, realism (and I've stuffed up enough stuff to know I'm not perfect - just ask any of the NTSA lads about the schedule for the national squad training weekends...).

...and I also happen to know a few of the "pillars of the community" who're always pointing out the great contributions they've made over the years... and I'd really rather not wind up like that because I usually know what the actual stories regarding those "great contributions" are...

And I'm not even going to think about asking about the truffle. :eek:

rrpc

Deleted User wrote: »

Anything about the 'references'?

From what I'm hearing it's anyone over 18, but I'm waiting for the guidelines too.

I think take a common sense approach to this and just get the usual suspects (teacher, professor, doctor etc.)

I presume 'bank manager' is no longer acceptable

Sparks

Actually, if they're looking for character references from those of us with pre-existing licences, I'm going to be rather annoyed. I've been signed off on by a Garda Superintendent for what, seven years now? Asking me now for a character reference is actually offensive, because the only reason to ask is if they thought I was dodgy but didn't want to be the one to say it despite having the legal duty to do so.

(The DoJ have said informally that character references won't be sought except in cases where it's a new application from an unknown applicant; but again, we're waiting on the official word...)

fat-tony

rrpc wrote: »

... I presume 'bank manager' is no longer acceptable

Only the ones who got out before the banking system ended up as a basket case;)

Rovi

rrpc wrote: »

From what I'm hearing it's anyone over 18, but I'm waiting for the guidelines too.

I think take a common sense approach to this and just get the usual suspects (teacher, professor, doctor etc.)

I presume 'bank manager' is no longer acceptable

The thing is, other than the Gardai, my close family members, and a handful of friends (who are also firearm owners), very few people know I own firearms at all, and certainly not any details of numbers or types.
I'd be very loathe to go approaching anyone outside that circle of people looking for their permission to use their names on my applications for firearm certificates, no matter how well I know them, or them me.
Members of the Gardai are specifically excluded; if family members are too, I'll be approaching some of my shooting buddies.

rrpc

We're really just guessing here Rovi, but for someone with an air rifle, the issue isn't as stark as it is in your situation.

It'll be a case of horses for courses and as Sparks says, there shouldn't be an issue with existing holders.

Bananaman

but for someone with an air rifle, the issue isn't as stark as it is in your situation

Surely a reference is a reference - irrespective of the fact that you are applying for a firearms license or the calibre or action of same?

I'm in the boat as ROVI on this one - If I am told that references are required with every application - as far as i am aware the gardai have been told to treat every application, for any firearm, as a new application - then I will be seeking references from other members of my gun club or at most members of other gun clubs.

I have no intention of telling anyone that does not already know so, that I hold a firearms license.

B'Man

daveob007

thats a pain alright, i have guns for 20 years so that don't count anymore.

does anyone have the restriced list????

bigred

Sparks wrote: »

And thread reopened (sorry Zara, I just knew it'd take a few minutes to get both those posts out and I wanted to keep them together at the top for people).
And yes, there's a way - there should be a kitemark stamp on your safe somewhere indicating that it passed the standard. If it doesn't have that stamp, you can't really say it passed it (though what you do about equivalent ISO standards, I'm not sure). Kitemark will look like this:

What about the case where you've gone and bought a commercial grade safe. Not necessarily designed for firearm storage but a damn site stronger than anything by infac et. Al??

Sparks

daveob007 wrote: »

does anyone have the restriced list????

Attached, though it's floating about all over the place here.

Sparks

bigred wrote: »

What about the case where you've gone and bought a commercial grade safe. Not necessarily designed for firearm storage but a damn site stronger than anything by infac et. Al??

Reading the SI, it says "complies with"; not "certified under". So if the safe does exceed the standard in all respects, then you're okay... you just have to show it exceeds the standard.

That last bit may not be simple though.

£42 is cost of getting the relevant document from BSI.

Then whatever the cost of showing that you exceed it.

clivej

Am I getting this wrong about a reference.

WHERE does it state you must provide a reference writen or otherwise.

It only asks for 2 referees who MAY be contacted to attest to your character. Section 2.3.

And who are NOT members of the Garda. So that includes everyone else including your shooting buddy's.

So lets cut the crap -

HOW can the requirement of people that know you to be a sound chap be a bad thing????????????????????????

And if you can't provide at least the 2 referee's that support you as being of sound body and mind then how can your Super WHO MAY NOT KNOW YOU give you a license for a dangerous weapon, lets call a it as it is here, without some sort of check up first.

rant....rant...rant............................

G17

Sparks wrote: »

...and I also happen to know a few of the "pillars of the community" who're always pointing out the great contributions they've made over the years... and I'd really rather not wind up like that because I usually know what the actual stories regarding those "great contributions" are..

Still, don't underestimate the value of your postings/ramblings!! It's of huge value. Thanks.

Sparks wrote: »

And I'm not even going to think about asking about the truffle. :eek:

Probably best.:D

Sparks

clivej wrote: »

Am I getting this wrong about a reference. WHERE does it state you must provide a reference writen or otherwise.

In section 2.3, where it says (C) at the top, meaning that if it's a new application, you must fill this bit out.

So lets cut the crap -
HOW can the requirement of people that know you to be a sound chap be a bad thing?

Because of the Firearms Act, Section 4, specifically a combination of subsection 1:

An issuing person shall not grant a firearm certificate unless he or she is satisfied that the applicant complies with the conditions referred to in subsection (2)

and subsection 2, part b:

(b) can be permitted to possess, use and carry the firearm and ammunition without danger to the public safety or security or the peace

.

If I've been signed off on for seven years by a Garda Superintendent as being safe to have a firearm under 4(2)(b), what's the point of asking for a character reference? He knows who I am. If I was some random unknown person, I could understand it (and I'm told that's the intent); but making it mandatory is, to my mind at least, just looking for something to fail an application on. And if there's reason to fail an application, I'd rather it was done openly instead of pointing any civil lawsuit towards your character references instead of towards the Superintendent.

Asking applicants who have already had licences for years to produce character references... it's just plain dodgy.

clivej

Sparks wrote: »

In section 2.3, where it says (C) at the top, meaning that if it's a new application, you must fill this bit out.


Because of the Firearms Act, Section 4, specifically a combination of subsection 1:and subsection 2, part b:.

If I've been signed off on for seven years by a Garda Superintendent as being safe to have a firearm under 4(2)(b), what's the point of asking for a character reference? He knows who I am. If I was some random unknown person, I could understand it (and I'm told that's the intent); but making it mandatory is, to my mind at least, just looking for something to fail an application on. And if there's reason to fail an application, I'd rather it was done openly instead of pointing any civil lawsuit towards your character references instead of towards the Superintendent.

Asking applicants who have already had licences for years to produce character references... it's just plain dodgy.

Well then if I were you I'd put yourself down for your own character references after your not a member of the Garda force ...........

End of story or just the begining???? In 3 years time if the same form is here all this will start over again won't it?

Dr Strange

Ok, I'm getting annoyed now. I looked everywhere on my Infac Gunsafe and can't find if it adheres to the the standards or not. Anyone know where on the safe to find the symbol and/or standard number?

Sparks

Did it come with an instruction/installation manual preusse?

Dr Strange

Sparks wrote: »

Did it come with an instruction/installation manual preusse?

No, I got it from Duffy's and it came in a carboard box (that's long gone) and just had the bolts in a ziploc bag inside the safe.

johngalway

I'll have a look at mine see what I can see, no destruction manual here either.

LB6

Probably find it on the side that's bolted to the wall - same as mine!

Sparks

Typical design feature that

Dr Strange

No, I had a good look at it now (it's not bolted to the wall yet as I changed from an old cabinet a while ago but never came around to fix it into place until now). There is absolutely no marking anywhere, front, back, sides, top, or bottem. Not on the inside rim or under the soft furnishings. Maybe it doesn't adhere officially to the standards? Infac's are made in Spain as far as I know (EDIT: yes, here they are: http://www.infac-sl.com/ingles/index.htm Cupboards for Weapons ).

That would probably cause some of the dealers some headache if the Infac's are found to be non-conforming with the new standards. And a lot of shooters would have to change their safes. :mad:

johngalway

Preusse beat me to it, mines not bolted yet either

Emptied it all out, searched all over inside and out, top and bottom and I don't see that mark anywhere.

johngalway

I've emailed Infac, see what, if anything, they will know.

Dr Strange

johngalway wrote: »

I've emailed Infac, see what, if anything, they will know.

I did, too. And Duffy's as well.

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

In section 2.3, where it says (C) at the top, meaning that if it's a new application, you must fill this bit out.

And we've been told that these 'renewals' are to be treated as new applications.

If I've been signed off on for seven years by a Garda Superintendent as being safe to have a firearm under 4(2)(b), what's the point of asking for a character reference?

You've been signed off on seven years ago not continually for seven years. For all the Super knows you've taken an overdose of gamma radiation from computer screens and are no longer capable of knowing the day of the week except it's in hexadecimal.

Asking dodgy applicants who have already had licences for years to produce character references...

Fixed that for you

Callow Man

Does anyone know if the buffalo river safes meet the standards?

I have the 5 gun bronze series with the double locks but I wont be home untill Saturday so cant check for a stamp.( no standards info on their website)

Yes it does, according to the internet.

I'll look for the link again. All Bronze and Silver safes pass the standard.

http://www.scottcountry.co.uk/products_detail.asp?productID=2725 shows how Bronze Pass it, transitivity says that Silver should as well.
But for those of you who don't believe in transitivity, here is a link proving it: http://www.scottcountry.co.uk/products_detail.asp?productID=2724

johngalway

Preusse wrote: »

I did, too. And Duffy's as well.

Good stuff, I've posted questions on two British shooting forums as well, will post here if anything turns up.

fat-tony

Mine's an American make - Buffalo River. No kitemark on it either, but it says on their website that it "matches the legislation in many Countries or States" - so that's good enough for me
Seriously though - there are two 7-lever locks on the safe and it's bolted to a concrete block wall, so I can't see the CPO wanting me to detach it to look for a BSI mark. I think the Brattonsound safes are certified. The other commonly found safe is the Infac, may not have the kitemark, but these are usually ok'd by the CPOs as suitable. I'm assuming common sense will prevail and the CPOs will know which safes are ok (even without the kitemark) and which ones are junk.

Dr Strange

fat-tony wrote: »

I'm assuming common sense will prevail and the CPOs will know which safes are ok (even without the kitemark) and which ones are junk.

Your word in I]put name of preferred deity here[/I ear.

fat-tony

Hi zara, I was going to ask where you had seen the Buffalo River safes meeting the BS 7558 and I noticed when I quoted you that you had a set of links - thanks These links not visible in ordinary view, though!

Sparks

rrpc wrote: »

You've been signed off on seven years ago not continually for seven years. For all the Super knows you've taken an overdose of gamma radiation from computer screens and are no longer capable of knowing the day of the week except it's in hexadecimal.

0x04, depending on your encoding scheme.

But you're incorrect on that point - the full text of 4(1) is:

4.—(1) An issuing person shall not grant a firearm certificate unless he or she is satisfied that the applicant complies with the conditions referred to in subsection (2) and will continue to comply with them during the currency of the certificate.

(my emphasis, obviously).
So the Super should have known about my gamma radiation-induced hexadecimal handicap seven years ago.
Even before it showed up.


What? You're not suggesting that the stupid stuff in the Act only applies to us plebs, are you?
Besides, Section 5.
If they think I'm a problem, let them come say so, not hide behind my mother-in-law's character reference...

Sparks

fat-tony wrote: »

I'm assuming common sense will prevail and the CPOs will know which safes are ok (even without the kitemark) and which ones are junk.

You'd hope so, since a safe not made in the UK or Ireland isn't always going to be built to meet a British Standard, and even worse, even if it meets the BS standard it may not have a kitemark (it might have been certified by someone other than BSi Group, who own the kitemark trademark; or it might not have been certified at all).

fat-tony

fat-tony wrote: »

Hi zara, I was going to ask where you had seen the Buffalo River safes meeting the BS 7558 and I noticed when I quoted you that you had a set of links - thanks These links not visible in ordinary view, though!

I edited the post to put them in, my guess is that you saw the post before I had added them in?

fat-tony

Deleted User wrote: »

I edited the post to put them in, my guess is that you saw the post before I had added them in?

Timing's everything isn't it:D

clivej

I had the CPO here a few weeks back and he passed my Infac safe as OK on all accounts. And his report was sent to my FO.

So thats good enough for me to tick the box, right or wrong.


And here's a Kitemark for all those without one. Copy and Paste :eek::eek::eek: