IT / Tech Support Industry Dead

J_Dublin15

Seems that getting a job in the IT or Tech Support etc industry is dead, I worked in IT for a Financial company for over a year, before moving to a telecoms company for over 2 years before being let go due to the recession, since then I've hardly been able to find a job. I've started looking at general customer service jobs too lately and admin jobs.

However Nearly every role is either very very senior or involves having a Nordic language, French, German, Spanish or Dutch, none of which I have so I'm sitting here frustrated looking on job sites every day without finding anything in the slightest as I see even the most basic jobs are only recruiting multi-lingual people.

The frustrating thing is about 6 months before being let go I had many many people contacting me about jobs, I've never really found it hard to find a job but now it's been a few months and I just can't find anything and it's so frustrating.

Social welfare are giving me hassle saying I am not looking hard enough as if I was I would have found things, but quite simply there is nothing out there!

CorkFenian

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

Seems that getting a job in the IT or Tech Support etc industry is dead, I worked in IT for a Financial company for over a year, before moving to a telecoms company for over 2 years before being let go due to the recession, since then I've hardly been able to find a job. I've started looking at general customer service jobs too lately and admin jobs.

However Nearly every role is either very very senior or involves having a Nordic language, French, German, Spanish or Dutch, none of which I have so I'm sitting here frustrated looking on job sites every day without finding anything in the slightest as I see even the most basic jobs are only recruiting multi-lingual people.

The frustrating thing is about 6 months before being let go I had many many people contacting me about jobs, I've never really found it hard to find a job but now it's been a few months and I just can't find anything and it's so frustrating.

Social welfare are giving me hassle saying I am not looking hard enough as if I was I would have found things, but quite simply there is nothing out there!

What level of support were you working at?? What kind of cert background experience have you got??For general support its very hard but far from finished IMHO...Just for the moment its tough, employers market and theres guys working in positions (myself included...and glad to be) that they wouldnt have thought of this time 18 mths ago..

J_Dublin15

Can't be too specific as don't want to be identified as know my former employers are watching these boards, but amongst others I have a Diploma in Electronic Engineering, and a few more things, I was meant to be getting trained in Cisco CCNA with my last company who were going to pay for it but it never happened as the recession took hold so thats one thing I always was disappointed in. I had a whole career plan mapped out for me, but new management came in, culled the staff hugely and outsourced everything.

I was previously working in a broadband/telecom Companys technical support department, where I was responsible for training and development of front-line staff, and also spent time as team leader, before this I was senior tech support, basically you'd have a team of customer facing tech support agents, a second level, then a third which were the call out agents, then you have me above them, who worked alongside a senior team leader, the senior team leader was more of a man manager whilst I was the technical person.

I can't even find anything entry level or right at the bottom right now, if you look on jobs.ie nearly everything needs several languages and that is where I am falling down it seems, many employers have told me my CV, experience, and skills are very good, however they'd rather take someone with a much lower CV, much lower experience and skills who has more languages.

stereo_steve

Why do you need to be sent on a CCNA course?


Just get a book and do it? If you have no job at the moment you should be able to complete the course very quickly? Then you have a cert to put in our CV?

/Steve

Santa Claus

All the english speak support jobs have gone to India or Philippines so only European language jobs left here
I'm in the same boat, doing admin & accounts work to keep going but don't see my IT skills becoming useful again anytime soon !

herya

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

Social welfare are giving me hassle saying I am not looking hard enough as if I was I would have found things, but quite simply there is nothing out there!

Mayne they can fund a language course for you then?

dc01974

I myself am working down the country in an IT role. I am finding it hard to get good service in certain niche areas of IT. It seems to me that service providers are putting the horse before the cart and have used these times to cut and slash all for the sake of their bottom lines. Which means longer waiting times and hassle i do not need.

Also I am back in collage doing a degree by night.
There where a few guys in my last course getting the social to pay for their fees or help pay for the fees at least. It be worth asking them if they hassle you, what about sending you back to collage. Because there is one thing they do like is people off the live register.

I know it might be pain but consider me i have a family and kids and can only do one night a week its going take me years to get the degree....

vibe666

keep at it, there is still stuff out there. not much admittedly, but there is still some work if you keep a close eye on the jobs sites.

i sent you a PM anyway with one i noticed today that might suit your skills, hope you find something soon.

keep the faith mate.

AARRRGH

We just hired three people (quality assurance) so the IT industry isn't dead, however it's not the free for all it was 24 months ago.

Would you consider branching out into another area of IT? The reason I say this is because software companies always employ a good few QA/BA/development people, whereas they only need one or two network/support people.

J_Dublin15

For sure, I'm happy to look into other areas in IT, I'm not restricting myself to one area at all and am always happy to look at taking things in a different direction. I'm also flexible on shifts as long as it doesn't involve working between say 11pm-5am, and also on location, with Citywest and Tallaght the only places that are akward to me. But it still doesn't seem enough.

The sticking point being most of my expertise is relatd to the areas I have outlined previously, whilst I have basic programming experience, it's just that, mostly C++, HTML, CSS, Javascript, that kind of thing rather than anything huge and thats my one major regret. Obviously if I knew this was going to happen and the jobs market was like this I would have no doubt done something to change this in the past, but alas I didn't so here we are.

I have done a lot of UAT testing, and beta testing of internal systems in the past, normally as I have a tendancy to pick up very little things, minor bugs that others may miss and am always happy to give feedback rather than sitting and ignoring things. However I have not done a few years solid of this, mostly a few months here and there as part of my job rather than a specific role which is why I don't think it gets me anywhere.

I'm passionate about my work and always want to raise the standards and constantly deliver feedback and try and improve the way things work, I'm never afraid to suggest an improvement or come up with my own ideas.

qwertz

There are jobs out there but they are much harder to get than a year ago.

I disagree with AARRRGH's statement: it's not the free for all it was 24 months ago
The market wasn't good in this sector for the past couple of years.

MysticalRain

I'm in the same boat as well myself looking for an IT support job after being out of work for a year and a half due to an injury.

I don't think the market was ever a "free-for-all" unless you count the dotcom boom which has long since passed. I don't know why employers try to encourage people to get into IT if there are so little jobs out there. Unless it's to drive down wages and keep us all desperate for work.

ntlbell

There is jobs, make yourself more employable

J_Dublin15

MysticalRain wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as well myself looking for an IT support job after being out of work for a year and a half due to an injury.

I don't think the market was ever a "free-for-all" unless you count the dotcom boom which has long since passed. I don't know why employers try to encourage people to get into IT if there are so little jobs out there. Unless it's to drive down wages and keep us all desperate for work.

It depends on how you define free for all, from having worked at supervisory level and having assisted management with a number of things in my last role, there were certainly people in our department who should not have been there, thats for sure, they thought as they had the basics thats all they need and didn't want to learn, or improve themselves or show any kind of effort.

Several of the team would sit there doing nothing all day apart from watching youtube and rushing people off the phone and not wanting to help with no care in the world. They should not have been employed in the first place but most of these people were there prior to my arrival and were almost impossible for us to shift no matter how much I knew they were unsuited because the company didn't want to pay them off and technically HR said they're not doing anything hugely wrong.

It just really struck a nerve with me as I was working 10+ hours overtime nearly every week and there were people in my department who clearly couldn't give a toss as they thought it was an easy life with good pay without having to do very little. So if there is less of that all the better because it's one type of staff I really hated and had to put so many hours extra a month in to keep things ticking over.

Sadly the new breed of these kind of people has cropped up with the recession, people without skills, who are lazy but have languages, and the companies will seem to care very little about this, if you can do a few languages as it saves them on the cost base. The trouble being that most of the jobs around Ireland are based heavily on multinationals, and the fact is they can cross skill the other people who are speaking lanaguages other than English to do English too, driving down costs and staff numbers.

shoegirl

herya wrote: »

Mayne they can fund a language course for you then?

There is no way an entry level language course would prepare this guy for a career in IT support using a foreign language. Even 5 or 6 years ago near native ability was a must.

I can confirm that where I work, one by one, all the jobs are gradually moving to offshore cheap locations on about 1/3 of the salary.

I would certainly recommend doing a CCNA and CCNP or one of the more advanced certs if possible. It might get you an interview instead of being filtered out at the first round with the trogs who think their amazing personality and special charm takes precedence over qualifications and work ethics. :rolleyes:

shoegirl

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

It depends on how you define free for all, from having worked at supervisory level and having assisted management with a number of things in my last role, there were certainly people in our department who should not have been there, thats for sure, they thought as they had the basics thats all they need and didn't want to learn, or improve themselves or show any kind of effort.

Several of the team would sit there doing nothing all day apart from watching youtube and rushing people off the phone and not wanting to help with no care in the world. They should not have been employed in the first place but most of these people were there prior to my arrival and were almost impossible for us to shift no matter how much I knew they were unsuited because the company didn't want to pay them off and technically HR said they're not doing anything hugely wrong.

It just really struck a nerve with me as I was working 10+ hours overtime nearly every week and there were people in my department who clearly couldn't give a toss as they thought it was an easy life with good pay without having to do very little. So if there is less of that all the better because it's one type of staff I really hated and had to put so many hours extra a month in to keep things ticking over.

Yes yes yes. I am on my only break today after working flat out from 10.30 until about 10 minutes ago without a break or lunch while my colleague here who comes to work every day stinking with BO browses Facebook. IT is full of people who got in maybe 10 years ago with few or no qualifications and were mis-promoted into more senior roles where they learned to talk the talk. Trouble is they've bled the business dry. They just don't want to bother their arses working, or in some cases even working the hours they are contracted to. These are people earning 40k a year and more and quite frankly I wouldn't pay the minimum wages for work of such awful quality.

MysticalRain

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

It depends on how you define free for all, from having worked at supervisory level and having assisted management with a number of things in my last role, there were certainly people in our department who should not have been there, thats for sure, they thought as they had the basics thats all they need and didn't want to learn, or improve themselves or show any kind of effort.

Several of the team would sit there doing nothing all day apart from watching youtube and rushing people off the phone and not wanting to help with no care in the world. They should not have been employed in the first place but most of these people were there prior to my arrival and were almost impossible for us to shift no matter how much I knew they were unsuited because the company didn't want to pay them off and technically HR said they're not doing anything hugely wrong.

It just really struck a nerve with me as I was working 10+ hours overtime nearly every week and there were people in my department who clearly couldn't give a toss as they thought it was an easy life with good pay without having to do very little. So if there is less of that all the better because it's one type of staff I really hated and had to put so many hours extra a month in to keep things ticking over.

Sadly the new breed of these kind of people has cropped up with the recession, people without skills, who are lazy but have languages, and the companies will seem to care very little about this, if you can do a few languages as it saves them on the cost base. The trouble being that most of the jobs around Ireland are based heavily on multinationals, and the fact is they can cross skill the other people who are speaking lanaguages other than English to do English too, driving down costs and staff numbers.

I was referring to applying for jobs rather than what happens after you get the role.

That attitude does piss me off as well, especially when jobs are so hard to come by. I was faced with a similar situation when I was working abroad a few years ago. One guy in our 3 person team basically spent half his day lounging about on the Internet doing sweet FA. This despite the fact that the work was piling up to insane levels and myself and the other guy were having to work extra hours to pick up the slack. In the end, I logged his Internet usage for several weeks, dumped the data into a spreadsheet and confronted my boss with it. The boss couldn't fire the guy, but after much verbal kicking and prodding, we finally managed to get him to do a full day's work, more or less.

J_Dublin15

shoegirl wrote: »

Yes yes yes. I am on my only break today after working flat out from 10.30 until about 10 minutes ago without a break or lunch while my colleague here who comes to work every day stinking with BO browses Facebook. IT is full of people who got in maybe 10 years ago with few or no qualifications and were mis-promoted into more senior roles where they learned to talk the talk. Trouble is they've bled the business dry. They just don't want to bother their arses working, or in some cases even working the hours they are contracted to. These are people earning 40k a year and more and quite frankly I wouldn't pay the minimum wages for work of such awful quality.

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I was pretty much the same myself, I generally didn't take breaks at all in the last 12 months. I took lunch but this could be for half an hour from anytime from 1pm to 3pm depending on what was going on. I rarely ate actually in the office, I normally went in the care across the road, or the shop, simply to get a break from the office. I had many people who took so many cigarette breaks and left work early or turned up late nearly every day, and it was really frustrating being the only one who was aware of the mess that was going on around them and trying to hold everything together, the number of things that I did which were way outside my job remit was crazy, but if I wasn't going to do it nobody else was sure as hell going to.

MysticalRain wrote: »

That attitude does piss me off as well, especially when jobs are so hard to come by. I was faced with a similar situation when I was working abroad a few years ago. One guy in our 3 person team basically spent half his day lounging about on the Internet doing sweet FA. This despite the fact that the work was piling up to insane levels and myself and the other guy were having to work extra hours to pick up the slack. In the end, I logged his Internet usage for several weeks, dumped the data into a spreadsheet and confronted my boss with it. The boss couldn't fire the guy, but after much verbal kicking and prodding, we finally managed to get him to do a full day's work, more or less.

Trust me. I know all about this, there was one guy who would spend all day watching comedies on youtube practically all day and then a few of the guys starting playing online games against each other rather than doing the work, I saw the ticket queues growing to ridicolous levels and we had to bring them all into a room and give them a good kicking, where they blamed everyone but themselves. Whilst they were in the meeting I got IT to remotely connect to their machines and edit their machine config to get the games websites to redirect to the companys home page, they came in the next day, logged in and you should have seen their faces! Priceless! The ironic thing is a few days later one of the guys handed in his resignation as he was made to do hard days work rather than spending all day playing a game! I have no problem with people browsing the net occasionally as long as it does not effect their work, but with these guys they spent longer browsing the web than working.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has often felt that if they didn't put all the extra hours into work then things would totally fall apart, but then it angers me to see these people in jobs elsewhere whilst us hard workers are still out of a job.

ntlbell

shoegirl wrote: »

Yes yes yes. I am on my only break today after working flat out from 10.30 until about 10 minutes ago without a break or lunch while my colleague here who comes to work every day stinking with BO browses Facebook. IT is full of people who got in maybe 10 years ago with few or no qualifications and were mis-promoted into more senior roles where they learned to talk the talk. Trouble is they've bled the business dry. They just don't want to bother their arses working, or in some cases even working the hours they are contracted to. These are people earning 40k a year and more and quite frankly I wouldn't pay the minimum wages for work of such awful quality.

This is not restricted to IT tho, you find these people in all walks of life and all professions.

ntlbell

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I was pretty much the same myself, I generally didn't take breaks at all in the last 12 months. I took lunch but this could be for half an hour from anytime from 1pm to 3pm depending on what was going on. I rarely ate actually in the office, I normally went in the care across the road, or the shop, simply to get a break from the office. I had many people who took so many cigarette breaks and left work early or turned up late nearly every day, and it was really frustrating being the only one who was aware of the mess that was going on around them and trying to hold everything together, the number of things that I did which were way outside my job remit was crazy, but if I wasn't going to do it nobody else was sure as hell going to.

This just makes me think you're not very good at your jobs and can't do it within the time given.

most people want to go to work start on time and go home on time, if you want to put in all the hours but imho life is just far too short.

Yes there's a few slackers and you will find these everywhere, but the majority are just absolutely average and whining that you do this and you do that is just ridiculous.

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

Trust me. I know all about this, there was one guy who would spend all day watching comedies on youtube practically all day and then a few of the guys starting playing online games against each other rather than doing the work, I saw the ticket queues growing to ridicolous levels and we had to bring them all into a room and give them a good kicking, where they blamed everyone but themselves. Whilst they were in the meeting I got IT to remotely connect to their machines and edit their machine config to get the games websites to redirect to the companys home page, they came in the next day, logged in and you should have seen their faces! Priceless! The ironic thing is a few days later one of the guys handed in his resignation as he was made to do hard days work rather than spending all day playing a game! I have no problem with people browsing the net occasionally as long as it does not effect their work, but with these guys they spent longer browsing the web than working.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has often felt that if they didn't put all the extra hours into work then things would totally fall apart, but then it angers me to see these people in jobs elsewhere whilst us hard workers are still out of a job.

maybe you need to stop paying attention to what others are doing on concentrate on what you're doing.

sounds like you were getting shafted in your old job.

hope it paid well.

MysticalRain

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

I'm glad I'm not the only one! I was pretty much the same myself, I generally didn't take breaks at all in the last 12 months. I took lunch but this could be for half an hour from anytime from 1pm to 3pm depending on what was going on. I rarely ate actually in the office, I normally went in the care across the road, or the shop, simply to get a break from the office. I had many people who took so many cigarette breaks and left work early or turned up late nearly every day, and it was really frustrating being the only one who was aware of the mess that was going on around them and trying to hold everything together, the number of things that I did which were way outside my job remit was crazy, but if I wasn't going to do it nobody else was sure as hell going to.



Trust me. I know all about this, there was one guy who would spend all day watching comedies on youtube practically all day and then a few of the guys starting playing online games against each other rather than doing the work, I saw the ticket queues growing to ridicolous levels and we had to bring them all into a room and give them a good kicking, where they blamed everyone but themselves. Whilst they were in the meeting I got IT to remotely connect to their machines and edit their machine config to get the games websites to redirect to the companys home page, they came in the next day, logged in and you should have seen their faces! Priceless! The ironic thing is a few days later one of the guys handed in his resignation as he was made to do hard days work rather than spending all day playing a game! I have no problem with people browsing the net occasionally as long as it does not effect their work, but with these guys they spent longer browsing the web than working.

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has often felt that if they didn't put all the extra hours into work then things would totally fall apart, but then it angers me to see these people in jobs elsewhere whilst us hard workers are still out of a job.

Part of it is the employers fault. There is no real justification for allowing access to non-work-related websites like Facebook, Bebo, YouTube etc. If someone does have a genuine reason to log onto those websites, then they should contact the IT department on an individual basis to obtain access.

GoneShootin

@ntbell I'm with you on your point you're trying to make, but attacking the poster is the wrong way to do it. Reduce the flame!

J_Dublin15

ntlbell wrote: »

This just makes me think you're not very good at your jobs and can't do it within the time given.

My job was not as simple as that, the fact was in the last year or so senior management with absloutely no understanding of the industry, the Irish market or how our products work were appointed. My work wasn't a fixed work for set days as per se, it was a constantly changing marketplace I was supporting and every week had different challenges, there was no typical day as per se like there are in some other roles.

It was not helped by the fact management continued to cut staff and not understand how various sytems work, and would frequently turn around and say such a task would take five minutes, when it is not as simple as that because there are several factors that need to be taken into consideration. Sometimes if management say something needs to be done it's not as simple as say do it, if it is sure I'd do it, but this is the problem you have with managers who don't understand the systems, the history and the limitations of systems that we had is they expect everything to be done there and then.

The reason I was unfortunately having to worry about what others were doing is that when a customer got pissed off enough with these peoples lack of action, a lot of escalations would end up at the top of the tree for escalations - IE ME. Who spent too much time on the phone solving simple issues which with a bit of effort and usage of common sense people could have sorted out themselves but instead they are too busy trying to get people off the phone so they can continue their game on Yahoo pool with an agent in billing.

I shouldn't have to worry about what other departments such as marketing do either, but when they advertise one thing about one of our products which is completely incorrect and inaccurate and then we get overwhelmed by calls from angry customers saying why are we claiming things on our website which isn't true, then sadly I have to get involved else the productivity will go through the floor whilst we clear up other peoples mess.

J_Dublin15

MysticalRain wrote: »

Part of it is the employers fault. There is no real justification for allowing access to non-work-related websites like Facebook, Bebo, YouTube etc. If someone does have a genuine reason to log onto those websites, then they should contact the IT department on an individual basis to obtain access.

Oh I can totally see where this comes from - I myself am somewhat of that view right now. But at the same time I don't like working environments to become like a prison, I don't think thats helpful for morale as it makes the place a little more depressing.

I have no problem with people using the web if they are up to date on their work, it doesn't bother me on the slightest, but when someone's on the phone call with a customer for example as my agents were, and they're more interested in their next shot in an online game that takes it too far. For that reason I'd like to see gaming, youtube and facebook gone but not the web as a whole.

joegtg

Have you tried any of the IT agencies? While they may not be able to get you a job they would be able to give you feedback on your CV and the likelyhood of finding employment. You could also enquire about ways to improve your chances e.g. i know CCNA was mentioned earlier but if you ask an agency they might have more call for other certifications that you had n't considered. Also I would consider any contacts that you made while in employment. Not just from the companies you worked for but people from other companies you had dealings with. I have found that contacts can make a huge difference in IT. Having interviewed people for IT positions in the past I can say personality/compatibility are as important as technical skills when making a decision on who to employ. The way you talk about other departments at your previous job and other IT workers makes you seem a little alienated and would n't IMHO come across well in an interview. Good luck.

CorkFenian

Its not just IT..Jobs are scarce across the board...Before current role..Worked on a 3rd level helpdesk with german speakers.....Some of them there because of their language skills....Languages wont cut it and is impossible for Irish IT workers..There are tons of companies who will require IT staff within next 12 months or so for project work etc...(Thats what i hope but it all depends on wider economy)...It will just be further up the skills ladder...Just like after dot com, there will be a load who will leave due to lack of interest etc or just not good at what they do...I was unemployed for a while this year...My one advice to anyone in OPs boat is to get more certifications...Not test king it but set up a lab etc...When you're back working its a lot easier to say how "easy it would have been to do them etc"...I would recommend sharepoint and CCENT,CCNA...And try and know them as well as u can...nothing beats working with it obviously...But plenty of exercise, clear head and study..I found it very hard to keep it going longer than 2-3 weeks at a time...So I know its tough work to keep it together...best of luck OP..

I must add that I didnt do one exam while I was off..I thought at the time that I had to work know it and test know it...I got it wrong...Its all about certs whether we know it or not is down to ourselves..

J_Dublin15

joegtg wrote: »

Have you tried any of the IT agencies? While they may not be able to get you a job they would be able to give you feedback on your CV and the likelyhood of finding employment. You could also enquire about ways to improve your chances e.g. i know CCNA was mentioned earlier but if you ask an agency they might have more call for other certifications that you had n't considered. Also I would consider any contacts that you made while in employment. Not just from the companies you worked for but people from other companies you had dealings with. I have found that contacts can make a huge difference in IT. Having interviewed people for IT positions in the past I can say personality/compatibility are as important as technical skills when making a decision on who to employ. The way you talk about other departments at your previous job and other IT workers makes you seem a little alienated and would n't IMHO come across well in an interview. Good luck.

I have tried a few but haven't had too much luck. Most of them said they are primarily recruiting multi-lingual canidates right now, and that they think I have a good CV and if I had another language that would really put me in a great position for many jobs. Other than that they did suggest CCNA.

I have a few contacts from my jobs, and the only roles I've got through these are those in Tallaght which is way too far out for me, and ones once again for Multi-lingual, there is another one which is slightly poorly paid, but I'm contractually not allowed to work for them for a period of 12 months after leaving my last job, and my last employers have made no secret that they will enforce it.

I did actually get on pretty well with most departments and had a good relationship with the previous MD of the company, before he got pushed out, whilst publicly you see me moaning about the departments, I had a very good working relationship with them as if I spotted any issues I pointed them out, and discussed them with them so we could get them resolved - I'm not the kind of person who sits back and watches other departments make mistakes which I know full well is going to mean sooner or later there is going to be a great big mess that is going to need clearing up by our department when I can nip things in the bud before they seriously cause problems for the business.

My main point being, my number one priority is making my department work as efficently as it possibly can and doing all I can do ensure that. Sometimes that involves putting points across that people don't like to hear, in a tactful way, but are in the long term interests of preventing a much bigger mess later on. I'm passionate about my work and actually care not just about doing my job, but also doing it well and serving the people I'm paid to well. Luckily until the end of my time in my last job I had fantastic management who really appreciated this and was the reason I got promoted several times, but some people simply don't like being told when they are wrong, when they obviously are.

MysticalRain

I have a few contacts from my jobs, and the only roles I've got through these are those in Tallaght which is way too far out for me, and ones once again for Multi-lingual, there is another one which is slightly poorly paid, but I'm contractually not allowed to work for them for a period of 12 months after leaving my last job, and my last employers have made no secret that they will enforce it.

Let me get this straight. Your last employer laid you off, and on top of that they are legally preventing you from obtaining work elsewhere.

What's this country coming to?

trad

Have a look at this crowd
http://www.pocketkingscareers.ie/Careers/IT

Always seem to be looking for staff, seem to be a good employer and onlne gambling is on the up.

no connection to them or the IT industry, just came across it in a trawl.

Stheno

MysticalRain wrote: »

Let me get this straight. Your last employer laid you off, and on top of that they are legally preventing you from obtaining work elsewhere.

What's this country coming to?

That's not unusual in cases where staff are outsourced to another company or working on outsourced contracts, there will be a standard clause stating that staff from the service provider cannot be employed by the service providee.

It can also be found in cases where one company is being subcontracted by another to provide a service to a third company.

I had to have this checked in one instance where I was being interviewed by a client of the consultancy practice I was in by the company interviewing me.

It's primarily put into contracts to prevent poaching.


Op out of curiousity how far is Tallaght from where you live?

J_Dublin15

MysticalRain wrote: »

Let me get this straight. Your last employer laid you off, and on top of that they are legally preventing you from obtaining work elsewhere.

What's this country coming to?

Sadly yes, the worst of all is that pretty much every employee had this, it was actually worse for me as everyone was on 1-3 year fixed term contracts which were renewed a few months before expiry, turns out mine happened to be out just after they were planning on making lots of people redundant, so instead of making me redundant at the same time like the rest, they figured it would be cheaper to keep me and another who was up a few weeks before working until contract expiry then on the day let me go. The rest got redundancy. They agreed to waive the clause for anyone who was not in a senior position if they got laid off or not renewed.

trad wrote: »

Have a look at this crowd
http://www.pocketkingscareers.ie/Careers/IT

Always seem to be looking for staff, seem to be a good employer and onlne gambling is on the up.

no connection to them or the IT industry, just came across it in a trawl.

Can't say I'm a huge poker fan or player myself, I guess I am missing out on something though as everybody seems to be involved in it these days and if I was into this it might help!

nouggatti wrote: »

That's not unusual in cases where staff are outsourced to another company or working on outsourced contracts, there will be a standard clause stating that staff from the service provider cannot be employed by the service providee.

I was never a contractor, always worked directly for the company, but as it was a relatively new startup within the last five years and there was a lot of specially designed and patented systems we were using, I figured they were keen on ensuring the knowledge of these systems and the way they worked did not get out to the competition.

Op out of curiousity how far is Tallaght from where you live?

Without giving too much away I'm right in the far north end of Dublin 15, go pretty much any further North and your in County Dublin. I can make South Dublin easy, just Tallaght is too far out and too long a day for me to get to.

Stheno

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

I was never a contractor, always worked directly for the company, but as it was a relatively new startup within the last five years and there was a lot of specially designed and patented systems we were using, I figured they were keen on ensuring the knowledge of these systems and the way they worked did not get out to the competition.

that makes sense tbh, in my situation I was a permanent employee of the company the clause applied in.

Without giving too much away I'm right in the far north end of Dublin 15, go pretty much any further North and your in County Dublin. I can make South Dublin easy, just Tallaght is too far out and too long a day for me to get to.

Do you drive OP? I work in Newbridge, and regularly commute from North County Dublin to Newbridge, and having lived in Dublin 15, and close to the Meath Border and commuted from there I'd not see getting from there to Tallaght as a huge commute if you drive.

Even if you don't drive, given the old adage that it's easier to find a job when you already have a job, I'd put up with a hefty commute to get a job.

herya

I hope you don't mind me saying so but there's a lot of excuses and self-restriction in your posts plus the general feeling of impossibility. I know job hunting can do it to you and perhaps it's just the way you come across in writing but maybe it signifies something deeper about your attitude?

dazberry

herya wrote: »

I hope you don't mind me saying so but there's a lot of excuses and self-restriction in your posts plus the general feeling of impossibility. I know job hunting can do it to you and perhaps it's just the way you come across in writing but maybe it signifies something deeper about your attitude?

You're probably right, but when you come from a very negative and often dysfunctional working environment, the glass is very often completely empty.

D.

the_syco

As there's no jobs to move into, a lot of people aren't moving, and thus there is no job openings.

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

I'm contractually not allowed to work for them for a period of 12 months after leaving my last job, and my last employers have made no secret that they will enforce it.

This a very gray area. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/employment-rights-and-conditions/contracts-of-employment/contract_of_employment

In recent times, some employers are adding in specific provisions in contracts of employment that limit the ability of employees to work in a certain sector, with certain suppliers, clients, for a period following termination of employment. (For example, it may specifically state that the employee cannot work in a certain sector, with or for suppliers or clients of the former employer, etc.). There is nothing in employment law in Ireland that strictly forbids this, but there is no provision in employment law that allows this either.
Essentially, this is an issue of contract law - that is, the contract of employment signed and agreed between the employer and employee. If you have any concerns about this issue, you are strongly advised to seek legal advice from a competent legal professional in advance of signing this contract. However, even if the contract is signed, you are always free to seek such legal advice. Solicitors' fees in Ireland can vary widely so shop around and obtain some quotes for legal advice before you proceed.

http://www.mjoc.ie/home_nav_59_nid_13_y_07_m_10.html is some heavy reading, but it directly relates to your problem.

There are various restrictive covenants a Sales Manager can use and include;

- Non Compete Clauses (Preventing the sales representative from working for a direct competitor or setting up themselves in direct competition with the company)

- Non Disclosure Clauses (Preventing the disclosure of confidential company information or trade secrets)

- Non Solicitation Clauses (Preventing the sales representative from soliciting your customers/suppliers/staff etc)

J_Dublin15

nouggatti wrote: »

Do you drive OP? I work in Newbridge, and regularly commute from North County Dublin to Newbridge, and having lived in Dublin 15, and close to the Meath Border and commuted from there I'd not see getting from there to Tallaght as a huge commute if you drive.

Even if you don't drive, given the old adage that it's easier to find a job when you already have a job, I'd put up with a hefty commute to get a job.

I don't drive no - I'm quite happy with commuting to Sandyford etc, all of that is do-able, Tallaght and Citywest I really need to allow at least that but more often than not a bit more thats too much for me, I'm happy to commute up to 2 hours per journey but no more than that as I've been there before and it's seriously not good for my state of mind or for those around me.

I hope you don't mind me saying so but there's a lot of excuses and self-restriction in your posts plus the general feeling of impossibility. I know job hunting can do it to you and perhaps it's just the way you come across in writing but maybe it signifies something deeper about your attitude?

So what do you expect me to do? I apply for every single job I see in the categories that are avaliable to me and the qualifications I meet, and even some I don't meet. Do you expect me to start applying for jobs that require languages I don't have? Go and look on jobs.ie under IT, Customer Service or Tech Support, and see how little jobs there are for anyone who isn't German, Spanish, French, Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Finnish etc.

There is no problem with my attitude - trust me, I'm not restricting myself to a particular job, I'm not restricting myself to working right on my doorstep as I'm willing to travel 2 hours to get to and from work, and I'm willing to work any hours apart from 11pm-6am (Because of transport else I'd be offering to work these as well!) There are many people out there I know who are moaning that they can't get their ideal job, they actually have to travel outside their area and can't work 9-5, I'm not placing any restrictions on that.

I've applied for the most junior jobs I can find as well, the very basic ones which pay 20k or so as it's better money than the dole, but I'm told I'm over qualified for these, whereas the ones paying about 25-35k are only hiring multi-lingual, and the one aboves say I'm not experienced enough as I have no CCNA. I've thought about lying on my CV and missing out the part about running a department as it may stop the over qualified bit, but I shoudln't have to.

axer

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

I have no CCNA.

Are you going to study the CCNA yourself then? I did it that way and found it fine. Do the CCENT exam first and then the CCNA that way your brain gets time to soak in all the info. I think it is a great exam for teaching general network infrastructure aswell as specific Cisco stuff which is useful on most vendor devices.

trad

OP did you look at the jobs I posted and are they in your field?

novarock

Dont mean to sound like an asshole or anything, but not taking jobs because they are far from home is the worst idea I have ever heard.. If a recruitment company called you for a role, and you wouldnt go for it because its in tallaght, they just wont deal with you. You have to be open to do anything, anywhere to get a job now.

I have worked in more senior IT roles than you for a couple of multinationals over the last few years. I got let go in february because of headcount/cutbacks. I managed to get a decent desktop job in another multinational 4 weeks later. Its 14km from home, and I work 12 hour nights and days in the same week. I would bitten their hands off for it.

Two things you should do - Get a CCNA book and a couple of emulators. Know the stuff, and be able to get it across in an interview. Even if you dont have the qualification being able to talk about it and understand it is enough. The second thing is to get a driving licence.

J_Dublin15

novarock wrote: »

Dont mean to sound like an asshole or anything, but not taking jobs because they are far from home is the worst idea I have ever heard.. If a recruitment company called you for a role, and you wouldnt go for it because its in tallaght, they just wont deal with you. You have to be open to do anything, anywhere to get a job now.

Do you know where I live? Obviously not as if so you would realise that to get to Tallaght from where I am would take at least 2 hours and thats if I don't encounter any traffic on the way and don't include time travelling from getting of luas/bus to work and meaning the earliest I could get into work would be 8.45 as I would have to go via the city centre as I don't drive.

I have worked in more senior IT roles than you for a couple of multinationals over the last few years. I got let go in february because of headcount/cutbacks. I managed to get a decent desktop job in another multinational 4 weeks later. Its 14km from home, and I work 12 hour nights and days in the same week. I would bitten their hands off for it.

[/quote]

I worked in Sandyford from where I am which is 28km away from me for 3 years and I never had a problem with this as the transport links were pretty good, but Tallaght is not so easy for me to get to, even though in theory it's 7km less I have to go via the city centre. On most mornings I could leave home at 7.20 and get into work for 9.00 with 5-10 minutes to spare when working in Sandyford and reguarly did 50-55 hour weeks, and the odd 12 hour shifts.

Just for kicks one day a week ago I tried to get to Tallaght and left at 6.50 and got off at the Square on the LUAS at just after 9.00am. There is one earlier bus I can get from home 15 minutes earlier but thats bloody tight even if I do this as that doesn't take into consideration getting to any place I need to go to to work, so all of the companies which in Tallaght are claiming that I need to start at 8 or 8.30 are just not possible unless they're fine with me being late quite often.

rickdangerouss

yes, life can be hard and unfair.
The way I see it is all these people let go in the IT, allot are taking on new certs, CCNA, CCNP, MSCE, SNIA, etc.. When you go for an interview and they ask what have you done since you got let go, what will happen?

They will employ the person who has done cert's, read books, studied, is a better tech now than before.
The IT industry is a very fast pasted and people can get left behind if they are not up to date on their field.
Ireland has open allot up and European people are in this market too with English and maybe 2 more language’s. Its sink or swim time or learn how to live under water.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

Stop. Whinging. I'm not your friend but I'm also not trying to offend.

If you have the same attitude in interviews as you have in your posts here then it's no wonder you're not being hired. We work with our colleagues for upwards of 40, 60, 80 hours a week. There are 168 hours in any given week and chances are you'll spend at least 40 of them - almost 25% - in close proximity to your line manager and colleagues. I personally would not like to spend 40 minutes around someone so negative, never mind 40 hours.

How about this: you get a job in Tallaght, you move to bloody Tallaght. Don't want to live in Tallaght? Move to somewhere along the LUAS line or a good bus route.

So, you worked for the Financial company for "over a year" and the Telecoms company for "over two"? Let's be generous and say 5 years experience altogether. You have a diploma in ElecEng which let's assume took 3 years to get. We'll also assume you went straight from school to the diploma. So, that puts you around 26 years old although I have a feeling you may be a couple of years younger.

You say up until six months ago you had people contacting you offering jobs - well, those jobs are probably filled now but chances are the people that filled them haven't passed their probation periods yet. Get back in contact with these people and tell them you're on the market again and looking for work. It's fairly easy to get rid of someone who hasn't passed a probationary period yet and at the end of the day we're all selfish individuals. Hopefully one of the people that they hired isn't working out. They'll probably be kept on if the employer has no viable alternative - become that viable alternative.

You say your expertise is mainly in the areas of your previous jobs? So, financial and telecoms line of business applications and consumer products it is. That's a pretty big area. You have some "C++, HTML, CSS, Javascript" knowledge? Everybody and their dog "knows" HTML/CSS/JS but they don't really. The guys who actually know it have been working with it full time and they know every bloody IE6 exception and hack they need to use to get their stuff displaying right in IE6+, FF2+, Chrome, Opera and Safari.

Get rid of that crap from your CV now, it's taking up valuable space advertising the "fact" you know something that you really don't. You have some C++ knowledge? Build on it. Go and learn C# or any .NET language. Look into iPhone development or work with Python. But, that's probably all pointless as from the sounds of it you know sweet FA about programming. And there are a whole lot of unemployed programmers out there.

What is your thing? What do you know most about? Not the most about compared to anyone else but what is you strongest area of expertise? Maybe it's Windows networking, maybe it's Cisco gear, maybe it's whatever IMS you were using. Doesn't matter what it is. Get out there and find companies that use it and aggressively, but politely, advertise yourself to them.

I have done a lot of UAT testing, and beta testing of internal systems in the past, normally as I have a tendancy to pick up very little things, minor bugs that others may miss and am always happy to give feedback rather than sitting and ignoring things. However I have not done a few years solid of this, mostly a few months here and there as part of my job rather than a specific role which is why I don't think it gets me anywhere.

This interests me. You know what software development companies can always use? Bloody good testers. You have a tendency to pick up on minor bugs? I can think of 5 in Firefox 3.5.2 off the top of my head and I'm useless at testing. Go and file every FF3.5.2 bug you can find in Bugzilla and become an advocate for getting them fixed.

Become an incredible bug reporter - the best testers not only find bugs but reproduce them well and dump an INCREDIBLE pile of information on the developer who has to fix it. The more information a dev has when he or she sits down to fix a bug the quicker it will be fixed. The best devs have a lovehate relationship with the best testers because although it's the best testers that will poke the most holes in a devs work they will also provide the best reports and repros so they can be fixed easily.

You were working 10+ hours of overtime every week? Big whoop, I worked over 90 hours last week and 70 hours the week before. But guess what? Nobody made me. Mandatory overtime is, by definition, not overtime. I chose to work those extra hours and will be remunerated accordingly. Like it or not, business is business. Working long hours at a young startup might get you good vibes and good will but in an established corporation, well, nobody cares.

It will be noticed and certain people will think better of you for it. Others will think less of you for it. At the end of the day you can only get done what you can get done. That sounds strange but think about it like this: you are never finished. You could work 168 hours of the week... every second of every day... and in 99% of jobs there'd still be something to do the next second. There is always something to do. Working overtime doesn't stop that. It's not like you're going to work 50 or 60 hours one week and then suddenly "be finished". That's it, job done, time to go home.

Working overtime is, and always will be, a sign of mismanagement. Maybe it's you mismanaging your own time and resources or your business unit or manager mismanaging their resources. Either way, if you're working overtime to beat a deadline then that deadline should either have been set for later, there should have been more resources allocated to the project or someone has been dossing along the way.

Regardless, point is, you worked 10+ hours overtime? You got paid for it. That's as much as you can ask for and I assume you got it. If you didn't, well, that's a different thread.

Guess what? I can train any eejit off the street to do call center tech support in a couple of weeks. They might not be brilliant at it and have the passion for it that others will but they'll do the job until I can find someone truly passionate. I can not train someone to be a native German, Spanish, French, etc. speaker in two weeks. So, I need a German helpdesk tech - which is going to work out better? Hiring you and teaching you German or hiring them and teaching them how to log an issue?

I know that's not pretty sounding but it's the way of the world. They have a skill which is in more demand than the skill you have. As such, they can do less (e.g. doss and be lazy) and still be kept on because they come from a much smaller pool of workers (in Ireland, I'm sure there is quite a large pool of German-speaking workers in Germany so they can't just be lazy all day).

You worked for a telecoms company yes? They generally are not small companies, the cost of entry to the market is too high. Guess what... you know their P+L and Balance Sheets at the end of each year? They don't have a little footnote on them saying "Would not have been possible without J" on them. If you feel like you not staying late or working longer will make everything fall apart then you are grossly overestimating your importance to the place.

I'm not saying that you were useless and it's entirely possible that you were providing an excellent return on your salary to the company - above and beyond all of those lazy techs you mentioned - but at the end of the day, you took one or two days off per fortnight yes? And things did not fall to the ground no? Exactly.

Maybe things piled up and you had a bit to deal with the morning you went back in... but guess what... if you dropped dead tomorrow the company would still go on. And after a few mornings of things piling up and going to **** somebody higher along the chain of command would have gotten wind of it and sorted things out. And then, and maybe only then, would they have realised the true value you were providing. Pity you were dead by that point.

Your next couple of posts are a bit more upbeat and you sound a lot like me in terms of doing a good job simply for the sake of it and proactively getting involved with pointing out where other business units decisions were going to affect yours and how the best way to proceed was - that type of stuff is hard to quantify on a résumé but is absolutely invaluable in a "real world" workplace. Make damn sure you're highlighting this point in interviews.

This is getting far longer than I imagine it being but with such a juicy thread title I couldn't resist! Baseless claims for everyone!

Okay, getting to the end... you mention somewhere that you're being told you're overqualified for some jobs and underqualified for others? I really, really hope I'm wrong here but are you using the same résumé for every job? You bloody better not be!

I haven't looked for a job out of necessity in a long, long time but I regularly apply for and interview for jobs both as a way of keeping my options open and networking. It's also a lot easier to negotiate a salary increase / role expansion when you know you have another offer still available.

If you are told you are overqualified for a role that means one of two things: either they don't want you but they're people pleasers so are lying -or- you've fscked up with your résumé. Dress your résumé down for the entry-level jobs. Point out your qualities that suit those jobs. Once you're there and have your foot in the door then you can open up a bit and make it known to your line managers and colleagues that you maybe know a bit more than most others in your position. This makes you an excellent candidate for internal recruitment / promotion.

Your résumé is not designed to get you a job. It's designed to get you an interview. Always remember that. The first thing you need to do is get your invite-to-interview ratio very high (I get invited to an interview for about 4 out of 5 résumés I send out) and then you need to work on your interview-to-offer ratio. That's a lot harder to manage as there are many more variables but you need, absolutely need to be getting called to interview for more than half the résumés you send out otherwise you're doing something really, really wrong on them.

Why not post your résumé here and let the forum critique it? Or email it to me and I will look at it for you personally. Obviously you can sanitise it of personally identifiable information but leave the guts of it as it is.

You seem like a nice guy who has a lot of good qualities - especially your communication and testing skillset - but it sounds like you're just not playing "the game" well enough and are maybe a bit too quick to come up with an excuses.

Best of luck with the job hunt dude.

Stheno

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

Do you know where I live? Obviously not as if so you would realise that to get to Tallaght from where I am would take at least 2 hours and thats if I don't encounter any traffic on the way and don't include time travelling from getting of luas/bus to work and meaning the earliest I could get into work would be 8.45 as I would have to go via the city centre as I don't drive.



I worked in Sandyford from where I am which is 28km away from me for 3 years and I never had a problem with this as the transport links were pretty good, but Tallaght is not so easy for me to get to, even though in theory it's 7km less I have to go via the city centre. On most mornings I could leave home at 7.20 and get into work for 9.00 with 5-10 minutes to spare when working in Sandyford and reguarly did 50-55 hour weeks, and the odd 12 hour shifts.

Just for kicks one day a week ago I tried to get to Tallaght and left at 6.50 and got off at the Square on the LUAS at just after 9.00am. There is one earlier bus I can get from home 15 minutes earlier but thats bloody tight even if I do this as that doesn't take into consideration getting to any place I need to go to to work, so all of the companies which in Tallaght are claiming that I need to start at 8 or 8.30 are just not possible unless they're fine with me being late quite often.

Would you consider moving if you were offered a job in Tallaght? Between reducing cost of transport and time saved commuting it would probably work out as a potential option?

qwytre

ntlbell wrote: »

There is jobs, make yourself more employable

There ARE jobs, learn the basics of english grammar.

qwertz

qwytre wrote: »

There ARE jobs, learn the basics of english grammar.

There are jobs, learn the basics of English grammar.

oq4v3ht0u76kf2

qwytre wrote: »

There ARE jobs, learn the basics of english grammar.

Did this enhance the conversation in any way, shape or form? (The answer to this rhetorical question is, in fact, no.)

qwertz wrote: »

There are jobs, learn the basics of English grammar.

Well played.

NullZer0

J_Dublin15 wrote: »

Without giving too much away I'm right in the far north end of Dublin 15, go pretty much any further North and your in County Dublin. I can make South Dublin easy, just Tallaght is too far out and too long a day for me to get to.

You have to see the market for what it is and be willing to put in the effort to get a job. I know many people that drive to Citywest from Longford and Westmeath DAILY for their jobs. I don't see this as bad at all.

Perhaps you don't have a car...but still where theres a will, theres a way.

The best thing you can do now (and I mean this in the kindest possible way) is to get your eyes of boards and onto the books.

FYI - the CCNA market isn't great at the moment. There are jobs coming up for CCNP/CCIE level and for people with Juniper experience/certification which is rare.

IMO the Juniper stuff can prove to be GOLD DUST in times like these. Take a look at their site, they are offering 100% free prometric exams at the moment and provide all the required materials!

jank

iRock wrote: »

You have to see the market for what it is and be willing to put in the effort to get a job. I know many people that drive to Citywest from Longford and Westmeath DAILY for their jobs. I don't see this as bad at all.

Perhaps you don't have a car...but still where theres a will, theres a way.

The best thing you can do now (and I mean this in the kindest possible way) is to get your eyes of boards and onto the books.

FYI - the CCNA market isn't great at the moment. There are jobs coming up for CCNP/CCIE level and for people with Juniper experience/certification which is rare.

IMO the Juniper stuff can prove to be GOLD DUST in times like these. Take a look at their site, they are offering 100% free prometric exams at the moment and provide all the required materials!

Wow good spot! Is there a market for this stuff? Cisco as far as I was aware is the be all for networking!

Swindon

iRock wrote: »

You have to see the market for what it is and be willing to put in the effort to get a job. I know many people that drive to Citywest from Longford and Westmeath DAILY for their jobs. I don't see this as bad at all.

Perhaps you don't have a car...but still where theres a will, theres a way.

The best thing you can do now (and I mean this in the kindest possible way) is to get your eyes of boards and onto the books.

FYI - the CCNA market isn't great at the moment. There are jobs coming up for CCNP/CCIE level and for people with Juniper experience/certification which is rare.

IMO the Juniper stuff can prove to be GOLD DUST in times like these. Take a look at their site, they are offering 100% free prometric exams at the moment and provide all the required materials!

Cannot see that offer on juniper site,is it still available do you know?

the_syco

Swindon wrote: »

Cannot see that offer on juniper site,is it still available do you know?

http://www.juniper.net/us/en/training/technical_education/
"No Charge"...