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Q for westside aficionados

Comments

  • #2
    Roper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    Have you tried both methods he's advocating there? It strikes me that in one video he's making one point, and in the other video he's making a different point completely.


  • #3
    ladowack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ladowack


    Roper wrote: »
    Have you tried both methods he's advocating there? It strikes me that in one video he's making one point, and in the other video he's making a different point completely.

    Thats exactly what I think too.


  • #4
    Roper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,448 ✭✭✭Roper


    I don't think you understand. What I mean is that in one video, he's explaining one method and in the next he's explaining a different method. That doesn't mean he's contradicting himself, just that each point is different.


  • #5
    ladowack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ladowack


    Roper wrote: »
    I don't think you understand. What I mean is that in one video, he's explaining one method and in the next he's explaining a different method. That doesn't mean he's contradicting himself, just that each point is different.

    Don't think so, the point of the first video being that he was showing THE way to bench and the second one he was completely contradicting himself!

    ".......pushing back in an arch is the stupidist thing in the world to do!"


  • #6
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    Can't watch the vid in work, but how far apart were they shot? Things change.

    Is he talking about raw in both, equipped in both, or one in each?


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  • #7
    ladowack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ladowack


    Hanley wrote: »
    Can't watch the vid in work, but how far apart were they shot? Things change.

    Is he talking about raw in both, equipped in both, or one in each?

    He demonstrates raw in both, but terms them both as proper competitive bench form, maybe theres a difference just can't understand it from these videos.


  • #8
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    I think I remember a bit of a shift in how westside benched some years ago...

    Louie used to be all about straight up and down (shortest distance and all that), and then the Metal Militia guys came along and started stomping them with their J press and things may have changed after that.

    How far about were the videos shot?


  • #9
    Remmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    Hanley wrote: »
    I think I remember a bit of a shift in how westside benched some years ago...

    Louie used to be all about straight up and down (shortest distance and all that), and then the Metal Militia guys came along and started stomping them with their J press and things may have changed after that.

    How far about were the videos shot?

    The first one looks to be an old westside clip and the second is in the elitefts warehouse.I'd say 5 years atleast?


  • #10
    ladowack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭ladowack


    Hanley wrote: »
    I think I remember a bit of a shift in how westside benched some years ago...

    Louie used to be all about straight up and down (shortest distance and all that), and then the Metal Militia guys came along and started stomping them with their J press and things may have changed after that.

    How far about were the videos shot?

    Must be a u-turn alright.

    There not EliteFTS videos, first one is possibly 5/6 years old (camcorder job) second one is (almost certainly) this year professional video.

    Guess it just annoyed me that hes so adamant in both.


  • #11
    podge57
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,640 ✭✭✭podge57


    yeah, its not really a contradiction, more of a development


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  • #12
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    ladowack wrote: »
    Must be a u-turn alright.

    There not EliteFTS videos, first one is possibly 5/6 years old (camcorder job) second one is (almost certainly) this year professional video.

    Guess it just annoyed me that hes so adamant in both.

    Sounds about the right time scale alright. I've the original EliteFTS exercise index DVD's which must be 4-5 years old at this stage and they discussed both methods in them.


  • #13
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Which method is best the straight up down or angled movement?


  • #14
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Which method is best the straight up down or angled movement?


    Raw - A slight angle, not too severe.


    Shirted benching - absolutely certainly without a doubt angled


  • #15
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    Hanley wrote: »
    Raw - A slight angle, not too severe.


    Shirted benching - absolutely certainly without a doubt angled

    Cheers Hanley,

    Would this be correct for raw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6I0z_d4xqY

    I have Mark Rippetoe's dvd but is he any good, read some people saying his squat technique is stupid
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

    Who as the best instructional videos?


  • #16
    Hanley
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 21,981 ✭✭✭✭Hanley


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    Cheers Hanley,

    Would this be correct for raw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6I0z_d4xqY

    I have Mark Rippetoe's dvd but is he any good, read some people saying his squat technique is stupid
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yha2XAc2qu8

    Who as the best instructional videos?

    Second part of the flat bench vid in the first link you posted is good.


  • #17
    cardio,shoot me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭cardio,shoot me


    the first video looked ok to me. that seems similar enough to my form


  • #18
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    enfant terrible wrote: »

    I have Mark Rippetoe's dvd but is he any good, read some people saying his squat technique is stupid

    Rips techniques are not competitive powerlifting techniques.
    They are strength training techniques, largely for novice lifters.
    As such they don't belong in a conversation about competition powerlifting style benches. Or for that matter about westside techniques.

    Note: Before someone tries to eat me, I am not implying that there is anything wrong with powerlifting, westside, being fat, powerlifters or training for powerlifting.


  • #19
    jumpin_macflash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭jumpin_macflash


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Rips techniques are not competitive powerlifting techniques.
    They are strength training techniques, largely for novice lifters.
    As such they don't belong in a conversation about competition powerlifting style benches. Or for that matter about westside techniques.

    Note: Before someone tries to eat me, I am not implying that there is anything wrong with powerlifting, westside, being fat, powerlifters or training for powerlifting.

    the whole squatting with your head down thing is a pretty crappy idea though. and for the most part a powerlifting technique is the strongest technique so they carry over well to anyone who wants to get stronger.


  • #20
    enfant terrible
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭enfant terrible


    jumpin_macflash wrote: »
    the whole squatting with your head down thing is a pretty crappy idea though. and for the most part a powerlifting technique is the strongest technique so they carry over well to anyone who wants to get stronger.

    What's the difference besides the head position?


  • #21
    Inspector Coptoor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,818 ✭✭✭Inspector Coptoor


    cardio,shoot me wrote: »
    the first video looked ok to me. that seems similar enough to my form

    all hail the form of Cardio.

    If it looks like his, then it must be right:)


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  • #22
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    jumpin_macflash wrote: »
    the whole squatting with your head down thing is a pretty crappy idea though. and for the most part a powerlifting technique is the strongest technique so they carry over well to anyone who wants to get stronger.

    There is already a thread on this.
    Also you are missing my point.

    This thread is about powerlifting bench press technique, Tate is referring specifically to techniques which limit the range of motion. Which seems like a great idea when you are trying to put up a huge total.

    It is less than Ideal for an untrained-novice person who wants to get stronger. Which is what SS is about and for.


  • #23
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    enfant terrible wrote: »
    What's the difference besides the head position?

    A lot.
    Sorry if thats a bit short, but there is a discussion all to itself about it.


  • #24
    jumpin_macflash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭jumpin_macflash


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    There is already a thread on this.
    Also you are missing my point.

    This thread is about powerlifting bench press technique, Tate is referring specifically to techniques which limit the range of motion. Which seems like a great idea when you are trying to put up a huge total.

    It is less than Ideal for an untrained-novice person who wants to get stronger. Which is what SS is about and for.

    the thread goes where the posters take it in fairness. and tate isnt just referring to techniques limiting the ROM, its about being in the strongest position to lift. pretty similar to rippetoe actually in its basic points, tight back, tucked elbows, leg drive, arch and press.

    being able to bench more is always a great idea if strength is your goal. whether your benching powerlifter style or not if it makes you stronger its a good thing no matter who endorsed the technique. your getting too caught up in what one man thinks imo. if a beginner benches like dave tate he'll be way ahead of most people in the gym which is fairly ideal to me.


  • #25
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    jumpin_macflash wrote: »
    . your getting too caught up in what one man thinks imo.

    Actually no, thats not what this is at all.
    In fact its miles away from it.
    But isn't it all the rage to throw that around these days.

    I was pointing out that the type of bench Tate is talking about, (i.e. shorter range of motion, less shoulder rotation, line around the belly) is distinct from what someone who is following something like Starting Strength will want.

    The point being that a relatively untrained beinner will benefit from a greater range of motion and more rotation of the shoulders from a higher bench line. Its just going to use more muscle. Where as the PL style of bench is about decreasing the range of motion, allowing a shorter travel from the touch to the lockout.

    My point wasn't that a person should bench the way rip says, or that one bench is better than the other. It was that powerlifting training and novice strength training are different and there is no point or place for rippetoe in a thread about Powerlifting coaching.

    And in relation to a relatively weak trainee, training a full range of motion would be much better than training a reduced range of motion. The same way below parallel squats are better than half squats, despite the fact that half squats carry more weight.

    Also, Rip doesn't teach head down, if you look at the video, the kids head is actually in a neutral position, he says "look down" because the kid was looking up with his head up. Its a cue.


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