Vodafone stole €1200 out of a separate joint account

Run_to_da_hills

A fortnight I posted a thread about my brothers girlfriend (not wife) phone being robbed and €1200 used in calls made to Kenya over night.

My brother has just informed me that Vodafone have deducted €1200 from separate joint account between himself and her without authorization.

Worse still after they verbally agreed to go 50/50 on the bill and never even followed up their conversation in writing. This is disgusting carry on by Vodafone. Is this legal?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055625965

Doctor DooM

Anyone contacted vodafone? Sounds like a cock up.

It's not illegal for them to take the DD from the account, which is what happened effectively.

therecklessone

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Anyone contacted vodafone? Sounds like a cock up.

It's not illegal for them to take the DD from the account, which is what happened effectively.

The deduction was from a separate account if I'm reading the OP correctly.

MarkR

How would they get a separate account number unless the person had given it to them?

Run_to_da_hills

therecklessone wrote: »

The deduction was from a separate account if I'm reading the OP correctly.

Yes a deduction from a totally seperate joint account between her and her BF who had nothing got to do with the incident.

MarkR wrote: »

How would they get a separate account number unless the person had given it to them?

Ways and means, Im sure they have their own detectives chasing up these details.

Gillo

Unless the bank f*cked up in incredible style, can they link different accounts held by the same person like that I always assumed they couldn't but maybe they've started to:eek:

OP when did they agree to go 50/50?

therecklessone

MarkR wrote: »

How would they get a separate account number unless the person had given it to them?

It sounds like a bank error.

Years ago shortly after my dad died AIB charged my mother's (they paid DD from joint account which had not been closed) ESB bill to my account...myself and my dad had the same initial, and same home address, but the accounts were in different branches (so different sort code) and obviously a different account number.

marco_polo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes a deduction from a totally seperate joint account between her and her BF who had nothing got to do with the incident.

Ways and means, Im sure they have their own detectives chasing up these details.

This cannot possibly be legal as the DD agreement must state the a/c number doies it not?

On to the bank first to find out WTF happened.

Run_to_da_hills

Gillo wrote: »

Unless the bank f*cked up in incredible style, can they link different accounts held by the same person like that I always assumed they couldn't but maybe they've started to:eek:

OP when did they agree to go 50/50?

Brother going down to the bank now to lift them out of it.

Gillo

Well read a few other threads here first, there's no point him lifting them out of it as soon as he goes in, if it was a mistake all he has to do is explain the situation and they can reverse it very easily. Chances are it's down to genuine human error which believe it or not does actually happen.

If he goes in shouting and screaming before giving them a chance to fix anything I'd personally hope he doesn't get it back.

It may be a good idea to correct your thread title.

seamus

Probably an error in automation. The DD was cancelled without notifying Vodafone. Therefore Vodafone are going to present the DD at the bank for payment.

Vodafone being a trusted DD presenter, the bank will have error checking systems in place to confirm that the name and the account number match. When the details presented didn't match, the system may have looked at the name and address of the person, found the joint account and applied the DD to that.

Vodafone didn't "steal" anything. The bank received a DD request and honoured it. The bank are the ones who screwed up, so they can fix it. There's no point in "lifting" a drone out of it when chances are no actual physical human being made an error.

Tasha90

Go to the papers or go on the radio, on the jerry ryan show or some other show similar.

therecklessone

Tasha90 wrote: »

Go to the papers or go on the radio, on the jerry ryan show or some other show similar.

:rolleyes:

He could just try and sort it out like an adult, by contacting the bank for an explanation first.

jor el

If a DD was presented to an account that had insufficient funds, then they bank may have gone to another account held by the same person to get the funds. This may have been in error, or it may be allowed, depending on how your accounts are linked. Either way, the solution is to contact the bank, as Vodafone have not stolen anything. Making an accusation like that without knowing the facts is premature.

jor el

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ways and means, Im sure they have their own detectives chasing up these details.

You can't possibly be serious with that statement. This would be highly illegal, and basically identity fraud. No company employs people to find customer's bank account details so that they can set up unauthorised direct debits.

Run_to_da_hills

jor el wrote: »

No company employs people to find customer's bank account details so that they can set up unauthorised direct debits.

They just did it ffs.

seamus

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They just did it ffs.

No they didn't. Prove it.

Run_to_da_hills

seamus wrote: »

No they didn't. Prove it.

We will find out soon enough, the bank is looking into the matter.

What annoys me is that I threatened to terminate my billed contract with them when it expires in September after the first incident.

A Vodafone rep phoned me immediately through a private number and assured me that all will be done to sort out this matter and then they do this without even having the courtacy to make an contact with the party involved. They have their address, they could have at least made written contact with them.

MysticalSoul

This is why insurance on your mobile goes a long way.

daheff

MysticalSoul wrote: »

This is why insurance on your mobile goes a long way.

not really


most insurance claims that they will cover from the time that the phone is reported stolen to the network (who will in all likelyhood cancel the number)....so you are usually only insured against incompetence on the networks part in cancelling the number

Run_to_da_hills

MysticalSoul wrote: »

This is why insurance on your mobile goes a long way.

Irrelivant, I have my phone fully covered

This case is about Vodafone failing to contact a customer and informing them of the theft of e1200 worth of calls after initially informing them that no calls were made on the phone when it was reported it stolen.

jor el

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They just did it ffs.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We will find out soon enough, the bank is looking into the matter.

You say they did do it, and that you will soon find out if they did do it. Which is it? You're speculating, as you have no proof, and you don't know what actually happened. The simple truth is that they cannot find out the bank account details of any of their customers, without the customer giving it to them. Anything else would be highly illegal.

Run_to_da_hills

Just got a text from my brother, his Girlfriend has to fill out a form with the said bank to get an immediate refund of the €1200. The bank has then got to pursue Vodafone to try and get the cash back from them. Not exactly over yet. Nice try Vodafone. :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

We will find out soon enough, the bank is looking into the matter.

Whats to find out?, sure you know they stole the money and had detetctives looking for his account number to do this.

Do you ever actually read your own posts?They'd be funny if you werent so serious.

Run_to_da_hills

Stekelly wrote: »

Whats to find out?, sure you know they stole the money and had detectives looking for his account number to do this.

Plenty to find out. For starters how did Vodafone got information and the unauthorized access into a separate joint party bank account that had absolutely nothing got to do with the original contract. Did Vodafone request these details from unsuspecting bank staff when the assigned bank account did not have €1200 to deduct from it?.

After watching this programme on Telifis Eireann nothing would surprise me how this company would treat their customers.

Prime Time's "Service with a snarl" documentary on RTE1
http://www.rte.ie/news/primetimeinvestigates/

Ah-Watch

Tasha90 wrote: »

Go to the papers or go on the radio, on the jerry ryan show or some other show similar.

Bit drastic and immature if this was only an error would you not think?

Gran Hermano

Misleading thread title, conspiracy theory.. . Reminds me of a boy crying wolf.

All this thread achieves is highlighting a mistake by a bank.

jor el

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Plenty to find out. For starters how did Vodafone got information and the unauthorized access into a separate joint party bank account that had absolutely nothing got to do with the original contract. Did Vodafone request these details from unsuspecting bank staff when the assigned bank account did not have €1200 to deduct from it?.

You're speculating again, you have no idea what actually happened. This could very easily be a bank error, so why aren't you crucifying them, calling them thieves and scammers? It's more likely that the bank used the other account, either by mistake or deliberately, than Vodafone somehow getting the other account information from somewhere.

Run_to_da_hills

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Misleading thread title, conspiracy theory.. . Reminds me of a boy crying wolf.

All this thread achieves is highlighting a mistake by a bank.

A big mistake by the bank to follow out instructions from Vodafone to debit e1200 from another account without authorisation after they agreed with the customer that they would go 50/50 on the excessive bill.

BTW do you work for Vodafone Customer care? :rolleyes:

Gran Hermano

More half truths and lies, have you proof the phone company told the bank to debit the other account?

No i don't work for them or a bank and it's 20 years since I worked in customer service, but don't let that stand in the way of the blame you're dishing out without proof.

Personally, I'd wait for facts before labelling a company or person a thief.

Run_to_da_hills

Gran Hermano wrote: »

Personally, I'd wait for facts before labelling a company or person a thief.

Perhaps you should read the lead up thread to all this. :rolleyes:

dilallio

As Seamus said earlier, it sounds like Vodafone (who did not know that the DD was cancelled) presented the DD to the bank. Because the DD was cancelled, someone in the Bank probably made an error and paid it from the other account.
The fact that the bank are going to refund the money and follow up with Vodafone re-enforces this.
It's happened to me in the past - not enough money in my current acct to honour a DD, and someone in the bank made a deduction from my savings acct instead.
It would be a criminal offence for Vodafone to hire a detective to get your brother's bank details, and forge another direct-debit in his name & other bank account no. They may be difficult to deal with, but they are not that stupid. To suggest that they would do this is ludicrous.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

BTW do you work for Vodafone Customer care? :rolleyes:

Do all rational people work for Vodafone customer care?

Run_to_da_hills

dilallio wrote: »

As Seamus said earlier, it sounds like Vodafone (who did not know that the DD was canceled) presented the DD to the bank. Because the DD was cancelled, someone in the Bank probably made an error and paid it from the other account..

They presented a DD to the bank when they knew well there was an unsettled dispute over the matter. It was irrelevant what bank account they attacked.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They presented a DD to the bank when they knew well there was an unsettled dispute over the matter. It was irrelevant what bank account they attacked.

Ah more buzz words. It's like reading the Sun. "attacked" now. It's very relevant seeign as you are accusing them or falsly obtaining details of a seperate account and committing fraud by taking money from it. In fact it could'nt be more relevant which account they "attack".

Run_to_da_hills

Stekelly wrote: »

Ah more buzz words. It's like reading the Sun. "attacked" now. It's very relevant seeign as you are accusing them or falsly obtaining details of a seperate account and committing fraud by taking money from it. In fact it could'nt be more relevant which account they "attack".

If it was a dignified company yes I wouldnt use such words but no we are dealing with a ruthless telecommunications multinational that dosen't give two shi*t about customer care. It has already been exposed by consumer programmes such as Prime Time. Its a wonder that so many of their former billed customers are leaving them in droves and joining Meteor.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If it was a dignified company yes I wouldnt use such words but no we are dealing with a ruthless telecommunications company that dosen't give two shi*t about customer care. It has already been exposed by consumer programmes such as Prime Time. Its a wonder that so many of their former billed customers are leaving them in droves and joining Meteor.

So what your sayinng is your acussations are unfounded and pretty much defamatory due to a complete lack of any evidence pointing to this being a Vodafone error, never mind a malicious and illegal act?

Run_to_da_hills

Stekelly wrote: »

So what your sayinng is your acussations are unfounded and pretty much defamatory due to a complete lack of any evidence pointing to this being a Vodafone error, never mind a malicious and illegal act?

Again you have never bothered to read the follow up thread to get the full story of this dispute.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055625965

35notout

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If it was a dignified company yes I wouldnt use such words but no we are dealing with a ruthless telecommunications multinational that dosen't give two shi*t about customer care. It has already been exposed by consumer programmes such as Prime Time. Its a wonder that so many of their former billed customers are leaving them in droves and joining Meteor.

Oh yes, Meteor AKA Eircom - the epitome of good customer service :rolleyes:

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Again you have never bothered to read the follow up thread to get the full story of this dispute.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055625965

I did read that thread too. None of it lends anything to any of the wild accusations your throwing around here.

GerardKeating

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Irrelivant, I have my phone fully covered

No you do not, the insurance would not cover a case when you were negligent.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This case is about Vodafone failing to contact a customer and informing them of the theft of e1200 worth of calls after initially informing them that no calls were made on the phone when it was reported it stolen.

Sometimes it takes a while for call (esp roaming calls) to appear on a statement.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They presented a DD to the bank when they knew well there was an unsettled dispute over the matter. It was irrelevant what bank account they attacked.

Or the evil hearhless computer did it when the office was empty...

Run_to_da_hills

Stekelly wrote: »

I did read that thread too. None of it lends anything to any of the wild accusations your throwing around here.

Like deducting e1200 when they verbally asked would she settle for e600 :rolleyes:

Not making any written contact or replies to their customer at all over the matter.

Giving out misleading information at the store at the time the phone was stolen telling their customer that the phone was never used at the time of theft. Then texting her a bill off e1200 a month later.

If she had known of the theft she could have reported it to the Gardai but she didn't because she thought nothing of it. Their agent told her she should only report the theft to the Gardai if she was making an insurance claim.

When I threatened to terminate my contract (After being loyal with them 8 years) their customer service contacting me immediately from an unregistered number and told me that they were a bit "over the top" at first and were willing to discuss the matter. They never got back to me or them and hit the bank instead.

Call that good customer service. :rolleyes:

GerardKeating wrote: »

No you do not, the insurance would not cover a case when you were negligent....

I have never made a claim in 5 years, in previous claims my van was broken into and the phone stolen from the glove compartment. In her case the phone itself was not worth much.and she bought a brand new one from Vodafone the next day.

GerardKeating wrote: »

Sometimes it takes a while for call (esp roaming calls) to appear on a statement....

Not the issue, whether it took a day or two days to register, Vodaphone should have had the courtesy to contact her immediately over the outstanding discrepancy in their bill.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Call that good customer service. :rolleyes:

Again I'll say it. None of that lends itself to the wild and illegal acts your accussing them of in this thread.

Run_to_da_hills

Stekelly wrote: »

Again I'll say it. None of that lends itself to the wild and illegal acts your accussing them of in this thread.

It takes two to tango.

Guy:Incognito

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It takes two to tango.

Not in this case. Your just throwing out anythign that pops into your head.

Rhymenocerous

When you sign up for a contract phone you are libel for all calls made on that account. Whether they are made by you, your OH or the person that steals your phone. This is why phone insurance covers you for unauthorised calls. So being notified by Vodafone so you can report it to the Gardaí makes no difference, you're still libel for the calls made on that account, unless you have insurance to protect you against this (which the policy holder didn't).

From what I can gather from your posts, because of the mess up in-store, vodafone have suggested they'll take 50% off the call charges (which they do not have to do) but (IIRC) that offer was declined as the policy holder figured they owed nothing. Therefore the full bill went through under it's normal billing cycle to be paid by it's normal method (i.e. Direct Debit). All is pretty standard in my opinion to this point.

Then, somehow the direct debit was cancelled, and the bank have authorised this direct debit on the wrong account. Seems like a mistake, as you've indicated that the bank have said they will refund the money, provided the correct form is filled out (this is what I get from your post anyway).

As far as your outrageous claim that Vodafone have hired a private detective to source another account number for the policy holder, well that's just nonsense and you know it. Next you'll be looking over your should for fear that Vodafone have hired some Eastern European ATM cloning gang to take your money that way. Cop on.

And before you start accusing me of working for Vodafone, I don't. I openly dislike them; however, I don't see that they've done anything wrong here except give out the wrong info about calls that really doesn't effect anything because whether they told you (or had access to even see it at the time in-store) or not, the policy holder is still libel for all calls.

Run_to_da_hills

Rhymenocerous wrote: »

When you sign up for a contract phone you are libel for all calls made on that account. Whether they are made by you, your OH or the person that steals your phone. This is why phone insurance covers you for unauthorised calls. So being notified by Vodafone so you can report it to the Gardaí makes no difference, you're still libel for the calls made on that account, unless you have insurance to protect you against this (which the policy holder didn't).

From what I can gather from your posts, because of the mess up in-store, vodafone have suggested they'll take 50% off the call charges (which they do not have to do) but (IIRC) that offer was declined as the policy holder figured they owed nothing. Therefore the full bill went through under it's normal billing cycle to be paid by it's normal method (i.e. Direct Debit). All is pretty standard in my opinion to this point.

Then, somehow the direct debit was cancelled, and the bank have authorised this direct debit on the wrong account. Seems like a mistake, as you've indicated that the bank have said they will refund the money, provided the correct form is filled out (this is what I get from your post anyway).

As far as your outrageous claim that Vodafone have hired a private detective to source another account number for the policy holder, well that's just nonsense and you know it. Next you'll be looking over your should for fear that Vodafone have hired some Eastern European ATM cloning gang to take your money that way. Cop on.

And before you start accusing me of working for Vodafone, I don't. I openly dislike them; however, I don't see that they've done anything wrong here except give out the wrong info about calls that really doesn't effect anything because whether they told you (or had access to even see it at the time in-store) or not, the policy holder is still libel for all calls.

I blame the total lack of communication with the customer on Vodafones behalf.

dilallio

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They presented a DD to the bank when they knew well there was an unsettled dispute over the matter. It was irrelevant what bank account they attacked.

Yes they did - I agree with you on this. Unfortunately, this is the real world. Their automated billing system will do this (as will the majority of other companies). Virtually every large organisation will bill now, and deal with any issues resulting from an incorrect billing later. In this case they did not know that the direct debit had been cancelled.

It was the bank's fault for paying the money to Vodafone from an alternative account. They have acknowledged this and will refund the money.

From experience, when dealing with these companies, making wild and unfounded accusations will not help you at all in the resolution of the issue.

I do sympathise with your predicament. However, if I was working for Vodafone (which I'm not), or any organisation, no matter how sympathetic I was to your issue, I would find it extremely difficult to compromise with you on a mutually acceptable solution, the second you start accusing the company of theft / hiring detectives to hack your bank account. If this occurred, I would simply follow the agreed contract to the letter, in the knowledge that if you take the case to the small-claims court, your wild accusations would not do your case any good whatsoever.

The majority of the people working for Vodafone aren't out to get you - they have procedures for everything. The more senior the person you are dealing with is, the more they can do for you here, but again, if you adopt a hard line with them, they will simply get tired of trying to deal with you, and retreat to their official procedures.

Run_to_da_hills

dilallio wrote: »

Yes they did - I agree with you on this. Unfortunately, this is the real world. Their automated billing system will do this (as will the majority of other companies). Virtually every large organisation will bill now, and deal with any issues resulting from an incorrect billing later. In this case they did not know that the direct debit had been cancelled.

It was the bank's fault for paying the money to Vodafone from an alternative account. They have acknowledged this and will refund the money.

From experience, when dealing with these companies, making wild and unfounded accusations will not help you at all in the resolution of the issue.

I do sympathise with your predicament. However, if I was working for Vodafone (which I'm not), or any organisation, no matter how sympathetic I was to your issue, I would find it extremely difficult to compromise with you on a mutually acceptable solution, the second you start accusing the company of theft / hiring detectives to hack your bank account. If this occurred, I would simply follow the agreed contract to the letter, in the knowledge that if you take the case to the small-claims court, your wild accusations would not do your case any good whatsoever.

The majority of the people working for Vodafone aren't out to get you - they have procedures for everything. The more senior the person you are dealing with is, the more they can do for you here, but again, if you adopt a hard line with them, they will simply get tired of trying to deal with you, and retreat to their official procedures.

It isn't me that has the problem. :P

Vodafone will now not talk to anyone other than the customer involved.

Walkman

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It isn't me that has the problem. :P

Vodafone will now not talk to anyone other than the customer involved.

That would be due to data protection...they are now taking the procedural approach. I have just read over this thread and the other one and am in no way a fan of Vodafone but you seem to fail to realise how DD payments work, NO ONE in Vodafone is looking at DD payments, it is an automated process carried out with minimal human interaction save to change any information on a customers account (and please no more childish talk of them obtaining different bank account information without their customers knowledge....that is just plain ridiculous)

Run_to_da_hills

Walkman wrote: »

That would be due to data protection...they are now taking the procedural approach. I have just read over this thread and the other one and am in no way a fan of Vodafone but you seem to fail to realise how DD payments work, NO ONE in Vodafone is looking at DD payments, it is an automated process carried out with minimal human interaction save to change any information on a customers account (and please no more childish talk of them obtaining different bank account information without their customers knowledge....that is just plain ridiculous)

The whole point of the matter is thet there was a serious problem and Vodafone customer care knew of it.

Rather than try to deal with the customer in question they went directly to the bank. Whether it was automated deduction or not they should have been more dignified over the matter.

It had also been explained to customer care at the time that the customer in question was unemployed and did not have e1200 in her account so what were they playing at?