Father prays daughter to death

mike65

click

A man in the US accused of killing his 11-year-old diabetic daughter by praying instead of seeking medical care has been found guilty of second-degree reckless homicide.

Dale Neumann, 47, was convicted over the death of his daughter, Madeline, from undiagnosed diabetes.

Prosecutors contended he should have rushed the girl to a hospital because she couldn't walk, talk, eat or drink. Instead, Madeline died on the floor of the family's rural home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone called an ambulance when she stopped breathing/

/Their case is believed to be the first in the midwestern state of Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.

Last month, a jury in the western US state of Oregon convicted a man of misdemeanour criminal mistreatment for relying on prayer instead of seeking medical care for his 15-month-old daughter who died of pneumonia and a blood infection in March 2008. Both of the girl's parents were acquitted of a more serious manslaughter charge.

:rolleyes:

Ghost Train

idiots

mikemac

People surrounded her but only one person got convicted?

I wonder who the others were. Most likely the rest of the family but not much info in the article

bronte

Why are these people allowed to have children? :rolleyes:

tallus

mikemac wrote: »

People surrounded her but only one person got convicted?

I wonder who the others were. Most likely the rest of the family but not much info in the article

I'd say the father is in trouble because he's the legal guardian of the child.

Seriously though, these fcuking morons should be made to take an intelligence test before they are allowed to have children. It's a bloody disgrace.

cHaTbOx

bronte wrote: »

Why are these people allowed to have children? :rolleyes:

Nazi's gave Eugenics a bad name I guess?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Ghost Train wrote: »

idiots

Amen to that.

.

Caoimhín

I despair when I read something like that. The newspapers are full of woe today. I might just close the curtains, turn on the TV and ignore the rest of the world for the day. Maybe a nice walk before dinner, read my book, do some gardening. Ahh, life is good again.:)

*Please excuse my ramblings.

Thoushaltnot

This is what you'd expect from the history books, not "the West".

Religious leaders *need* to come out publicly and loudly and repeatedly to nip this in the bud and keep it nipped. To tell their flock to take the clearly ill and suffering in their care to a hospital or doctor in these cases. They can pray in the ambulance or at the hospital. "God helps those that help themselves", no?

Where religious leaders refuse, they should be co-prosecuted and membership of their congregation should be used as a weighting factor by social services to intervene and take guardianship of the young or otherwise vulnerable person.

And may she rest in peace, poor kid. Her and the 15 month old, also mentioned in the OP.

cruiser178

He should have been shot in the ****** and told pray to his so called god for healing

davyjose

cruiser178 wrote: »

He should have been shot in the ****** and told pray to his so called god for healing

Maybe he was praying he wouldn't get shot in the ******.

Zillah

cHaTbOx wrote: »

Nazi's gave Eugenics a bad name I guess?

Hey now let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

Rebelheart

Just read this story this morning. Here's a picture of this nutcase in court smiling:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8180116.stm

MagicMarker

Common Sense - Zero
Religious Nut Balls - 12,425,235,987

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

What. The. Fuck. How could somebody be so deeply deluded that their religious belief over rides their parental instincts? Like, how could anybody sit and watch an eleven year old die on the floor? I have to stop clicking news related threads

Banter Joe

Thats really unfair. It was clearly God's fault.

donkey balls

was there not a court case here about a child that needed a blood transfusion and the parents refused because of there religious belives.

where if the child did not get the transfusion they would die FFS there is some looneys out there

ihadu

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

This is what you'd expect from the history books, not "the West".

Religious leaders *need* to come out publicly and loudly and repeatedly to nip this in the bud and keep it nipped. To tell their flock to take the clearly ill and suffering in their care to a hospital or doctor in these cases. They can pray in the ambulance or at the hospital. "God helps those that help themselves", no?

Where religious leaders refuse, they should be co-prosecuted and membership of their congregation should be used as a weighting factor by social services to intervene and take guardianship of the young or otherwise vulnerable person.

And may she rest in peace, poor kid. Her and the 15 month old, also mentioned in the OP.

and admit this hocuspocus nonsense is just that. their flock should grow up, take ownership of their lives and realise theyve wasted their short time on this earth dreaming about some fantasy land that doesn't exist.

thomond2006

If there is a God, he wouldn't bestow the gift of children on pr1cks like that. :mad:

Tea_Bag

he makes me sick.

ShooterSF

So wait, a court who asks people to swear to a god that they tell the truth punish a man who prayed to the same omnipotent god (a god who is supposed to decide to take someone up to heaven or not) not to take his daughter.
Seriously?

towel401

AH just loves to hate religion

El Guapo!

I agree its stupid and I think its right that he got charged, but if he can be prosecuted then why cant they prosecute people in other religions who refuse transplants and blood transfusions??
Seems a bit hypocritical to me. :rolleyes:

Biggins

Serve him right. Gets what he deserves.

Jenroche

What is it with these people? Hello, you're supposed to call the ambulance before the person stops breathing. Dumbasses. :mad:

Jen ;->

Turtwig

Dean09 wrote: »

I agree its stupid and I think its right that he got charged, but if he can be prosecuted then why cant they prosecute people in other religions who refuse transplants and blood transfusions??
Seems a bit hypocritical to me. :rolleyes:

Or wears a T-shirt proclaiming

Homosexuality is a sin, Islam is Evil and abortion is murder

:rolleyes:

Allowed on the grounds of religion by the US courts.

ShooterSF

Dean09 wrote: »

I agree its stupid and I think its right that he got charged, but if he can be prosecuted then why cant they prosecute people in other religions who refuse transplants and blood transfusions??
Seems a bit hypocritical to me. :rolleyes:

Well the courts can force a parent to allow a child to get transplants I believe. In all of this I just don't understand how the court can not see it's hypocritical stance.

galwayrush

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg3mUhGVCgo

And if you think that what you think is true,
if you found peace deep inside of you,
if your faith made a mountain move for you then,
don't forget to pray for me, hear me now
if you think that jesus has saved you,
mother mary is waiting there for you,
if you think that god has spoke to you then,
don't forget to pray for me, hear me now
pray for me,
pray for me,
if you really do believe,
then don't forget to pray for me,
hear me now
if you think there's heaven when you die,
waiting for your freedom for your life,
when you pray does allah answer you,
then don't forget to pray for me, hear me now
and if you live in the promised land,
and your temple will be built again,
if moses brought you out of pharaoh's hands,
[ King's X Lyrics are found on
then don't forget to pray for me, hear me now
pray for me,
pray for me,
if you really do believe,
then don't forget to pray for me,
hear me now
you know, every day i look at god,
all around me, so near yet so far,
if you think you're better off than me,
then don't forget to pray for me,
hear me now
pray for me,
pray for me,
if you really do believe,
then don't forget to pray for me,
hear me now
umm, umm..........
don't forget to pray for me,
hear me now

RandolphEsq

bronte wrote: »

Why are these people allowed to have children? :rolleyes:

Forced castration FTW

RandolphEsq

Jenroche wrote: »

What is it with these people? Hello, you're supposed to call the ambulance before the person stops breathing. Dumbasses. :mad:

Jen ;->

But how else do you dispose of a body?

Biggins

RandolphEsq wrote: »

But how else do you dispose of a body?

Hungry boars/pigs come to mind as well as a deep hole and lime!
Then there is a liquid acid bath...

There's so many ways... :rolleyes:

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jenroche wrote: »

What is it with these people? Hello, you're supposed to call the ambulance before the person stops breathing. Dumbasses. :mad:

Jen ;->

Linky?.. Whats your sources?.

Unfounded BS IMO.

I bet someone takes this serious.

philologos

I think people need to realise that the hospitals are there to help and that God can work through these hospitals. I would never advise people to try faith healing in comparison to good medicine unless there was absolutely no cure that could be found in a hospital.

MagicMarker

Jakkass wrote: »

I think people need to realise that the hospitals are there to help and that God can work through these hospitals.

What does he do?

galwayrush

MagicMarker wrote: »

What does he do?

He finances the Hospitals when the HSE fails.:pac:

El Guapo!

MagicMarker wrote: »

What does he do?

MAGIC

Coriolanus

MagicMarker wrote: »

What does he do?

He created insulin and blessed Doctor Bob with a generous disposition that saw him enter the medical profession in order to treat people with such ailments.

Stercus Accidit

MagicMarker wrote: »

What does he do?

Cure people who were injured in a drunk driving incident where they killed someone else, and gives children cancer.

Oh what mysterious ways!

On a serious note, the myth of modern God comforts the weak minded, not the traditional one described in the ancient books used to control the ignorant and maintain the power of the rich and wealthy. Remember, believing in something with no evidence because everyone else does is called faith, and is a quality!

Except when children die, probably had an evil soul/didn't have enough faith.

**Timbuk2**

It's always little girls called Madeline, isn't it :rolleyes:

philologos

MagicMarker wrote: »

What does he do?

Let me clarify myself. If hospitals are available there is no excuse for not using them, and I feel it's rather selfish to pray to God to expect healing when there are trained medics available to you.

As for God working through hospitals, I believe that God can work through people according to His will for them. That's what I meant. For someone of a non-Christian disposition you won't hold such a position.

Flecktarn

You have to wonder sometimes about peoples sanity.......

galwayrush

Flecktarn wrote: »

You have to wonder sometimes about peoples sanity.......

I gave up on that years ago.:rolleyes:

ShooterSF

Jakkass wrote: »

I think people need to realise that the hospitals are there to help and that God can work through these hospitals. I would never advise people to try faith healing in comparison to good medicine unless there was absolutely no cure that could be found in a hospital.

But surely as a christian you can understand his approach? Assuming of course his belief that his daughter had lived a good christian life. He simply asked your (plural) god to give him more time with his daughter but accepted his ultimate decision and in the end should celebrate the fact that she was only forced through a short spell on this mortal plane before being called up to heaven.
Or am I really getting mixed up here?

philologos

ShooterSF wrote: »

But surely as a christian you can understand his approach? Assuming of course his belief that his daughter had lived a good christian life. He simply asked your (plural) god to give him more time with his daughter but accepted his ultimate decision and in the end should celebrate the fact that she was only forced through a short spell on this mortal plane before being called up to heaven.
Or am I really getting mixed up here?

Prayer isn't something that is always answered the way you want prayer to be answered.

Where hospitals are available I think as a caring parent the best you can do is bring your child to a hospital and then seek God while doing so. Again, I think it is rather selfish to expect God to intervene even where there are alternatives to deal with your childs medical issue.

Opposition to modern medicine is mere insanity and shouldn't be tolerated within Christian communities.

As for plural, God is one, comprised of three parts.

As for living a good Christian life and going to heaven and all of that. Yes, one could say that, however one could say that we have a duty to remain alive to share the Gospel when we are here on this earth.

Philippians 2:21-26 wrote:

For me living is Christ, and dying is gain. If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labour for me; and i do not know which I prefer. I am hard pressed between the two: my desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is better; but to remain in the flesh is more necessary for you. Since I am convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with all of you for your progress and joy in your faith, so that I may share abundantly in your boasting in Christ Jesus when I come to you again.

Call Me Jimmy

Jakkass wrote: »

Prayer isn't something that is always answered the way you want prayer to be answered.

Where hospitals are available I think as a caring parent the best you can do is bring your child to a hospital and then seek God while doing so. Again, I think it is rather selfish to expect God to intervene even where there are alternatives to deal with your childs medical issue.

Opposition to modern medicine is mere insanity and shouldn't be tolerated within Christian communities.

As for plural, God is one, comprised of three parts.

As for living a good Christian life and going to heaven and all of that. Yes, one could say that, however one could say that we have a duty to remain alive to share the Gospel when we are here on this earth.

Jesus. Christ. Either he intervenes or he doesn't - make up your mind!

ShooterSF

Jakkass wrote: »

Prayer isn't something that is always answered the way you want prayer to be answered.

Where hospitals are available I think as a caring parent the best you can do is bring your child to a hospital and then seek God while doing so. Again, I think it is rather selfish to expect God to intervene even where there are alternatives to deal with your childs medical issue.

Opposition to modern medicine is mere insanity and shouldn't be tolerated within Christian communities.

As for plural, God is one, comprised of three parts.

As for living a good Christian life and going to heaven and all of that. Yes, one could say that, however one could say that we have a duty to remain alive to share the Gospel when we are here on this earth.

I meant the pluralise the word "your" not god.

Anywho. As for saying you have a duty to remain alive does that not fly in the face of the recent change which said that people who commit suicide can enter heaven?

indough

wasnt it just the catholic church which said that?

Banter Joe

ShooterSF wrote: »

Anywho. As for saying you have a duty to remain alive does that not fly in the face of the recent change which said that people who commit suicide can enter heaven?

God looks at things on a case by case basis.

Here, the child in question died, which was unfortunate, but was clearly necessary to teach the father a lesson. God, acting through the courts, found him guilty of murder.

Recently His opinion on suicide was rewritten after a referendum was passed with two votes for forgiveness, zero against. Jesus abstained.

The recently formed comittees looking at a revision of the views on abortion and euthanasia haven't heard back from Himself yet, and so that could be some time.

ihadu

Jakkass wrote: »

Let me clarify myself. If hospitals are available there is no excuse for not using them, and I feel it's rather selfish to pray to God to expect healing when there are trained medics available to you.

As for God working through hospitals, I believe that God can work through people according to His will for them. That's what I meant. For someone of a non-Christian disposition you won't hold such a position.

when is it not selfish/moronic?

Helix

Leah Juicy Trend wrote: »

What. The. Fuck. How could somebody be so deeply deluded that their religious belief over rides their parental instincts? Like, how could anybody sit and watch an eleven year old die on the floor? I have to stop clicking news related threads

easy, religious zealots are mentally unhinged

achtungbarry

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Jesus. Christ. Either he intervenes or he doesn't - make up your mind!

The religious have a simple way out of this.

Somebody dies : god works in mysterious way or god wanted that person with him etc.

Somebody survives : it must have been god who saved him/her !


You just can't win with these people. They are immune to reason despite vigourous protestations to the contrary.

You simply cannot use reason to support the existance of creator sky wizard, you can use hearsay, ancient writings, faith, personal convictions but you can't use reason.