[PR] Dublin Bus - Real Time Passenger Information

Victor

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Projects/T21/Traffic-Management-/

Plans for 2009

Dublin Bus is to exploit the latest development in transport technology to redevelop how its fleet operates in the face of the growing challenge of congestion. As part of a €15 million proposal, Dublin Bus has appointed German firm Init to install an Automatic Vehicle Location and Control (AVCL) system throughout its fleet. The AVLC system will be the platform upon which Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI) can be introduced. The programme, part funded by the Department of Transport, is part of an overall plan to ensure a greater predictability of service. As part of the AVLC installation process, each bus will be equipped with an on board computer that will interface with the existing bus radio system, which will transmit location data back to Depots and other monitoring points. In addition to this, bus location data will be transmitted from the AVLC central computer system to Dublin City Council’s SCATS traffic control central computer. This will allow for greater bus prioritisation at signal controlled junctions.

AVLC will allow information to be fed back to screens at bus stops informing customers when their bus is due. Dublin Bus intends to have 1,000 of its busiest stops fitted with display screens. This information will also be accessible through mobile phones and the internet. Currently Dublin Bus and Init are in the specification stage of the software design process. The software specification will be signed off on in 2009. Once the software and hardware it has been designed, a pilot trial is planned for autumn. It is anticipated that AVLC will be fully operational by 2010. Once AVLC is operational, bus arrival times will be available on the Dublin Bus website and on mobile phone. Dublin Bus will then introduce bus stop RTPI units on a phased basis in over 1,000 sites across the city.

L1011

...remind me how many previous times DB have announced real time passenger info since the mid 90s? Must be a few.

Brighton & Hove Buses - who have a similarly spidery network to outlying towns as DB - have had full next bus info at all stops for some time. I've found it can occasionally "lose" a bus, but is generally very reliable.

Then again, B&H Buses also have 24 hour working on core routes, "nightclub buses" (Nitelinks) all week and the like. Biggest fall down is an antiquated paper-only ticketing system, using scratchcards for daily/weekly tickets, but as theres no other operators to tie in with they don't really need to move on.

AlekSmart

I would hold off on the Wine and Cheese for a wee while yet.
Current indications tend to show a virtual collapse in Dublin Bus passenger throughput.

Some of the major trunk routes are showing serious reductions in business at all times of the day/week.

My prediction is for further Serious cuts in service including the elimination of Weekend services and the reduction of ALL services after 1900 hrs.

A major part of the problem is that most of the departees were the Eastern European Guest workers who were strong public transport users for all of their mobility requirements.
These folks were,in general,the finest of Public Transport users who tended to purchase pre-paid tickeys or to have their fare ready etc...They are sadly missed !

Again,for my own part,I find it odd that DB management is doing little to stimulate ridership particularly off-peak.

It appears,yet again,that the dead hand of the Dept of Transport and it`s writ-in-stone rulebook actively mitigates against flexibility in matters Public Transport !

I would suspect that costly programmes such as the RTPI stuff will be sidelined for the present as it becomes more apparent that the existance of the company itself may be under serious threat.

snappieT

This appears to be actually happening. It was said to be trialled on the route 123, and a few months ago they replaced the "Stopping" lights (that illuminate when you press the bell) with some LED screens, that just said "Stop" on them. However, this week, the screens started scrolling the location of the next bus stop, without the driver pushing any buttons. Must say I'm very impressed, and it would be great to see this rolled out on the entire network - it's a necessity when going on routes you're unfamiliar with.

I didn't get a chance to take a decent picture, but here's an idea of how it looks/works:

(Blame the iPhone for crappy quality)

T Corolla

Yeah roll on with this technology. I have used the real time information for Bus Eireann and it always accurate. I myself am not from the capital and such a device with allow for more efficent use of the buses and reduce costs.

lord lucan

They have this on a lot of London buses and most stops that have shelters. It's a great system and usually pretty accurate. I especially like the audio announcements on the buses telling you were you are,handy if you're on an unfamiliar route.

Chris_533976

Excellent. Its remarkably useful when you're on a bus at night and have no idea where you've just stopped because you cant see.

armada104

Excellent news that evidence of this is finally visible. Hopefully it'll get beyond a trial.

I also hope the Official Languages Act doesn't interfere with this too much. I love Irish and I'm all for its inclusion on signage and on-train passenger info but it's not practical to announce every bus stop in two languages.

How well is it working btw, snappieT? Have you noticed any slipups?

Heart

The only slip up I noticed the other day on a 123 was that the stop on Thomas St., just before Francis St. on the way into town was being displayed on the bus but this stop is gone now.

They probably out the info. in before this stop was taken away but it'd be nice if it was kept up to date.

H

KC61

The first part of this is the Automatic Vehicle Location and Control System that gives the garage controllers visibility of every bus, with the follow on being passenger information on board buses.

It is being trialled in Summerhill currently on route 123, and will then roll out across the entire depot and later onto the entire network.

Added benefits of the system will be that early departures by drivers should become a thing of the past, and that at long last schedulers will get accurate information about running times including intermediate timing points.

robbie_998

you missed a bit

Real Time Passenger Information
Automatic Vehicle Location and Control (AVLC) and Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI)

A project is underway to implement a system that will track all vehicles in the Dublin Bus fleet and provide information to customers in real time.

There are two distinct aspects to this project. Firstly, the Automatic Vehicle Location and Control (AVLC) system provides the real time vehicle tracking facilities and the management tools to control and manage the services. Secondly, the Real Time Passenger Information (RTPI) system uses the data generated by the AVLC system to provide information to the general public.

Deployment of an AVLC system on the entire Dublin Bus fleet will provide a modern fleet management and control tool. Each bus in the Dublin Bus fleet will be equipped with an on-board computer system to support the vehicle location functions which in turn provide the necessary data that will be required for the presentation of travel information to the public.

The on-bus system will generate location data in real time using satellite tracking technology. This data will be transmitted from the bus by means of a data radio system.

As the system is implemented in each depot, the monitoring and control functions will be introduced. Supervisors will have a real time view of the services being operated. They will be able to compare actual services with the schedules, identify gaps in services and take corrective actions. The tools available on the central system will be able to compute the consequences of the controllers’ interventions and regulations, and assist in good decision-making.

A recording facility will store logs of all vehicle movements. This will be used to assist in planning and scheduling. It will also be a valuable tool in post-event investigation of specific events.

Provision of Real Time Passenger Information
The AVLC system will generate the necessary data that can be used for the provision of information to the public. Real time information will be presented to the customer through a number of channels, including internet browser, mobile phone via SMS, in-vehicle displays and, in collaboration with Dublin City Council, at bus stop information display panels.

Traffic Light Priority

Dublin Bus is working with local authorities in the Dublin area to develop a link between the AVLC system and the traffic light management system to provide priority to buses at traffic light controlled junctions.

Real Time Information at Bus Stops
Dublin Bus is also collaborating with Dublin City Council to implement an infrastructure of bus stop information display units that will display real time predictions of bus arrival times at bus stops. The data generated in the AVLC system will provide the basis of the arrival time estimates for the bus stop display units.

System Deployment
Following a public procurement process, a contract for the AVLC system was awarded to German company, INIT GmbH, a subsidiary of init innovation in traffic systems AG.

The AVLC system is due to be deployed, following extensive testing and a pilot phase of operation, on all buses in the first depot in Q4, 2009. Full scale deployment across the entire Dublin Bus fleet will be completed during 2010.

Deployment of real time information will commence in early 2010, initially using internet, SMS and on bus display units. Rollout of bus stop display units will follow the deployment of the AVLC system.

also i saw on the 151 above where the luggage goes they installed black display bars (these were there before but removed and now there out back ?) but it wasn't actually on or anything.

Buseirann are ment to be doing the same thing but with GPS but haven't seen anything there yet.

will this be similar with GPS or done in blocks on maps ????

anyway thats my contribution

congo_90

this is badly needed for places where buses are not too frequent or have a tendancy to be late up to 50mins at a time! I thought I spotted a screen on a passing bus on the upper floor.. possibly a 16?

KC61

The displays and GPS equipment are being fitted to the entire fleet on a phased basis. However, at the moment the on-bus displays and AVLC garage control are only active on route 123.

I suspect that the screen that you saw on the 16 is on one of the two "VG" Class buses that are backups to the Airlink fleet based in Summerhill but which are usually to be found on the 16 and 16a.

KC61

robbie_998 wrote: »

you missed a bit




also i saw on the 151 above where the luggage goes they installed black display bars (these were there before but removed and now there out back ?) but it wasn't actually on or anything.

Buseirann are ment to be doing the same thing but with GPS but haven't seen anything there yet.

will this be similar with GPS or done in blocks on maps ????

anyway thats my contribution

Bus Eireann already have a live realtime search facility on their website based on GPS.

KC61

congo_90 wrote: »

this is badly needed for places where buses are not too frequent or have a tendancy to be late up to 50mins at a time! I thought I spotted a screen on a passing bus on the upper floor.. possibly a 16?

The facility at bus stops probably will not be rolled out until 2011 when the entire fleet have been fitted.

The priority initially is to get the control facility up and running followed by on-board information.

whosedaddy?

KC61 wrote: »

The facility at bus stops probably will not be rolled out until 2011 when the entire fleet have been fitted.

The priority initially is to get the control facility up and running followed by on-board information.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is on-board information priority over bus stop information?
Apart from its easier to fit the on-board info screens while upgrading the bus for AVLC.
Instead of screens, they could play a low tech tape that announces the next stop.. works for a lot of public transport on the contient for decades (without fancy screens)...

From an passenger perspective it would be much more important to have real time information at the bus stop, when your on the bus most ppl will know at which stop to get off.

Heart

From what I've read the on street is a DCC project. While on street may be far off, I understand that web/text based services will be available earlier, therefore while not having a screen on the street it looks to me like you'll be able to look up bus times for a specific stop by text/on the net. That's what I took from the plans.

H

KC61

Well given that the project is being rolled out on a route by route basis by garage you are not going to have enough information to give a complete on-street picture.

The first phase of the project is giving the route controllers live information so that they can make proper decisions. A direct side benefit of that is the ability to have live on-board information about what is the next stop.

As Heart states, the provision of on-street information will be for Dublin City Council. However, until the rollout of the GPS equipment across the Dublin Bus fleet takes place that will be incomplete. The testing phase on route 123 was stated to be Q4 2009, with a phased rollout across the entire fleet during 2010. The on-street information is due to happen either later in 2010 or 2011.

congo_90

Well certainly seems interesting! Even if they were to roll out live data on the net which is mobile friendly, it would greatly improve the service. Screens on buses any bigger than that on the 123 would be pointless and probably high maintenance. Some routes don't really need it for example the 150 because they're frequent enough.

markpb

congo_90 wrote: »

Screens on buses any bigger than that on the 123 would be pointless and probably high maintenance.

On-bus screens (and audible announcements) are great for people who are blind, deaf, tourists as well as people who are on unfamiliar routes. They're not just a nice to have

snappieT

armada104 wrote: »

How well is it working btw, snappieT? Have you noticed any slipups?

I didn't notice any errors as such, but the screen isn't THAT wide, and it seems like they came up with really long bus stop names that could be shortened. For example, there was one "Croyden Park Avenue Junction Marino Green", which took ages to scroll across. Inlined to think the naming scheme they use on tickets ("Croyden Pk Ave / Marino Grn") would have been sufficient.

It also occasionally scrolled "Route 123 to Kilnamanagh Road, which was nice, I guess.
There weren't any audible announcements.

nehpets5555

Once theres one on the 17a and 27b im happy. The 17a is by the far the most unreliable bus for being on schedule i've ever had to travel on.

markpb

I've been using the 17a every day for 4 years and haven't had any problems! It doesn't have a great timetable but it's very reliable for the one it does have. It takes c. 10 minutes to get from Finglas to DCU, 15 to Coolock Lane and 30 to HJ&D Dart station. In the opposite direction, it takes 10 minutes to get from HJ&D to the Malahide road and 15 minutes to Coolock Lane. In the mornings, the stretch from Finglas to Coolock lane is a little slower but it still shows up at almost exactly the same time every day - I can even time it to catch the same 27X or 16A every day.

Victor

I saw a 16 or 16a and someone had been fidgeting with the internal display. I know this because they put it back upside down.

armada104

snappieT wrote: »

I didn't notice any errors as such, but the screen isn't THAT wide, and it seems like they came up with really long bus stop names that could be shortened. For example, there was one "Croyden Park Avenue Junction Marino Green", which took ages to scroll across. Inlined to think the naming scheme they use on tickets ("Croyden Pk Ave / Marino Grn") would have been sufficient.

It also occasionally scrolled "Route 123 to Kilnamanagh Road, which was nice, I guess.
There weren't any audible announcements.

Sorry to go on about it but I have another question. If the Stopping sign has been removed, how is it indicated that the bus is stopping? From your photo it looks like the display has only one line of text. In London there are two and Stopping shows up under the stop name if someone presses a button.

I realise it's not as much of an issue on the 123 as it's usually single deck and you can see if anyone else has got up. But on a double decker it would be a bit backward for these signs to be removed.

Victor

It would alternate between "Stopping" and "This stop Main Street at Cross street".

Heart

On the 123's as pictured earlier, the right hand side of the display has a red 'stop' when the bell is pushed. The rest is in orange and it lists the stops.

armada104

http://www.initusa.com/en_news/PR_AH_2008/PR_080709_Dublin_en.php?e=1

Press release from Init. It's quite technical but somebody here might be interested. The website has more info on what all those product names mean. One notable point is that the on-board info currently on the 123 seems to on order for only 150 buses.

Jim236

Hi,

Does anyone have any more info on this? Has it been rolled out on any other routes other than the 123? And are the real time information displays at every bus stop along the route or just a couple? And if so, which ones?

KC61

There have been detailed discussions about this here (go towards the last few pages) and here lately - probably best to read there rather than reinvent the wheel a third time!!!

Jim236

Cheers!

joegriffinjnr

They have put the sliver poles up at both main stops outside Northside S.C. for the 17A. All well and good says you, only the 17A stopped serving them stops last week!

markpb

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

They have put the sliver poles up at both main stops outside Northside S.C. for the 17A. All well and good says you, only the 17A stopped serving them stops last week!

Genius :-)

archerslover

haha the screen on that 16 was such a joke, they werent designed for realtime info, only for airlink things? so it only shows "Dublin Bus. Buy your ticket online at Dublinbus.ie".

Anybody found a screen bar was also on a 33b in early morning?

patrickmooney

I cant wait for these screens to roll out. I am just back from Hamburg, where they are the norm. Usually one multilne display for around 4 bus stops. Faultless. Then on board all stops are displayed and announced. Again a very handy feature.

jack presley

patrickmooney wrote: »

I cant wait for these screens to roll out. I am just back from Hamburg, where they are the norm. Usually one multilne display for around 4 bus stops. Faultless. Then on board all stops are displayed and announced. Again a very handy feature.

It's all well and good rolling them out but will they actually have accurate information on them? What I can see happening is you arrive at a stop and the sing says '10 minutes'. Then after about 5 minutes it changes to 9. I'd imagine the times are going to be based on the bus traveling at an average speed and won't take the fact that it's stuck in traffic into consideration. Instead of giving times, I'd prefer if it said what road it was on or what bus stop it just passed.

Jehuty42

Rather than pointlessly speculating, why don't you head down to one of the existing screens and see how they're working?

jack presley

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Rather than pointlessly speculating, why don't you head down to one of the existing screens and see how they're working?

It's bad enough waiting for my own bus. I'm not going to start waiting for other buses as well!

patrickbrophy18

Jehuty42 wrote: »

Rather than pointlessly speculating, why don't you head down to one of the existing screens and see how they're working?

Where are these "existing screens"? I have seen some silver poles along Nassau Street. Are these going to have Real Time Passenger Information displays?

KD345

jack presley wrote: »

It's all well and good rolling them out but will they actually have accurate information on them? What I can see happening is you arrive at a stop and the sing says '10 minutes'. Then after about 5 minutes it changes to 9. I'd imagine the times are going to be based on the bus traveling at an average speed and won't take the fact that it's stuck in traffic into consideration. Instead of giving times, I'd prefer if it said what road it was on or what bus stop it just passed.

Yes, they will have accurate information. The bus transmits information every 30 seconds as to it's location. This is then fed to the displays, website and text service.

Of course, the information can change. If there is a traffic accident two streets away, then that will affect the arrival time to the stop. This can happen with Luas too, with incidents disrupting the service.

Your suggestion of displaying what road the bus is at would be confusing for passengers unfamiliar with an area. It may not offer an accurate arrival time either, as buses take different routes to serve the same location.

I've seen the displays in place at various locations across the city and they have been 100% accurate, which is impressive for a system which is still being rolled out. I'm sure there will be teething problems, but I'm confident that this will be a great service to bus passengers.

KD345

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Where are these "existing screens"? I have seen some silver poles along Nassau Street. Are these going to have Real Time Passenger Information displays?

There are active displays at Eden Quay, Donnycarney, Howth Road and Harolds Cross.

Yes, the silver poles are all to be fitted with the displays. There will be 600 displays initially across Dublin along with an SMS and web service. I reckon we will see smart phone apps develop too.

markpb

KD345 wrote: »

I reckon we will see smart phone apps develop too.

I wish but I doubt it will be so. It would require DB to share their raw data with the public. Odds on that happening... close to zero. Watch this space.

Devilman40k

markpb wrote: »

I wish but I doubt it will be so. It would require DB to share their raw data with the public. Odds on that happening... close to zero. Watch this space.

I wouldn't be too pessimistic about it, remember the displays are owned by the City Council who are collating the information, so the city council themselves may build the app ( although I doubt this! ) but I do know one firm that are involved in trying to get access to the information, they just have to unravel tons of red tape!

pclive

An app is all part of the project so its also on the way

loyatemu

markpb wrote: »

I wish but I doubt it will be so. It would require DB to share their raw data with the public. Odds on that happening... close to zero. Watch this space.

you're being a little pessimistic there - IE have an RSS feed for each station and several apps have been built on top of that, no reason to think DB would be any more secretive.

ardmacha

It would require DB to share their raw data with the public.

In my humble opinion all public licenced bus services should be required to have GPS tracking systems nowadays, The data from these should be provided to the regulator and routinely released to anyone with any reason for receiving it e.g. a Masters students wanting to analyze timetable performance.

Some of the problems that resulted in the past in this country in many areas could be reduced in future if data is not concealed.

markpb

loyatemu wrote: »

you're being a little pessimistic there - IE have an RSS feed for each station and several apps have been built on top of that, no reason to think DB would be any more secretive.

There's a world of a difference between Irish Rail providing information on a relatively small number of trains on a network where they face no competition and Dublin Bus allowing everyone to see exactly what is happening on every route, how many buses are delayed or cancelled and how many run temporarily out of service to allow them to catch up with their timetable. I'm almost certain that they'll claim commercial sensitivity and not publish it nor allow DCC to publish it.

It's worth pointing out that Bus Eireann have a similar scheme and have no published any raw data and that even though DCC also own the Dublin Bikes scheme, the usage data is not easily available, getting subscribers numbers required an FOI-style application and an independent iPhone application for it was withdrawn under threat of legal action by the operators.

There is no history of making the workings of public services transparent in Ireland and I don't think DB will be the first to break the mould.

Stevek101

markpb this system doesn't really have much to do with DB other than the buses are fitted with the equipment. The service is being run by QBN's which is a part of Dublin City Council.

I do remember seeing a presentation where an "smartphone app" was mentioned.

stop

Was down at Poolbeg t'other day and had a walk out to the lighthouse and back, and had timed it to catch the rare number 1. Came to the terminus, noted that the new bus stop numbers for RTPI were placed on the pole & one opposite. Waited there for a bit, but when I heard a bus engine around the corner close to 1730, I wandered up to the next stop into town, turns out the road has been blocked off with a height restriction barrier, from the entrance to the power station onwards. Managed to make it to the now 1st stop in time, asked the driver when the barrier went up - some time last year he said. But in the mean time, some DB (or subcontracted staff) drove under said barrier to attach the new bus stop numbers to the poles, making it look like they were still in service! Classic DB.

snappieT

KD345 wrote: »

There will be 600 displays initially across Dublin along with an SMS and web service. I reckon we will see smart phone apps develop too.

markpb wrote: »

I wish but I doubt it will be so. It would require DB to share their raw data with the public. Odds on that happening... close to zero. Watch this space.

If there's a web service, it can be scraped and used to build an app (for platforms they're not already building one for.

I'm a bit pissed off at the 600 screens, that's down from 1000 in the original plans.

Sulmac

I was on Eden Quay today and saw a pole with a screen on top of it.

It wasn't displaying anything and seemed smaller than the ones in the pictures posted earlier in this thread, having only two "lines" that could show information.

It also had a logo in the bottom right-hand corner saying 'Transport for Ireland'. Does anyone know what that's all about?