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New Renewal Forms up
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31-07-2009 11:42am#1
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Hi all, new to the forum, which has been a wealth of info over the past few months. Just though ye would be interested to see this:
http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/fca1%20(english).pdf
And translated that is in the Queens English????
"If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."
Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "
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I'll give it a lash
First of all things with (M) are mandatory and (c) are conditional.
Section 1:
For most of us this will be a Firearm or Restricted Firearm Cert and we will all have held a cert in the previous 3 years.
Section 2:
Mostly self explanatory. Interesting that question about name changes.
Section 2.2
This is not mandatory or even conditional
Section 2.3
This is conditional in that it doesn't have to be filled if it's a substitution. As the form is actually designed for conditions other than what it's being used for now, I'd say this is the same as a substitution and not required.
We need this to be clarified by the Gardai because otherwise we'll get FO's around the country looking for references.
Section 2.4
Previous history is mostly self explanatory
Section 2.5
Again conditional on it being a first time application, so not relevant to the vast majority here.
Section 3
Lot of options here so hopefully better stats will come of it. I presume the sight accessory is something like a night vision.
Section 3.3 and 3.4
These don't apply in this instance
Section 3.5
The secure accomodation order 2009 is not published yet
Section 4.1
Self explanatory. Note that you can put in your ammo limit here
Section 4.2
Good reason. As Section 4A is not commenced, the choice should only be Authorised rifle/pistol club for target shooting.
Section 4.3
This will be fun seeing as clubs don't have pulse id's yet.
Section 4.4
Training Certificate will need a post dedicated to itself and also needs the guidelines for clarifiaction. Suffice to say it's here at last.
Section 5.1
For the hunters
Section 5.2
One land owner?
That's it for the applicant. Some big gaps here to be filled before people can actually complete these forms.
Guidance needed badly!0 -
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Lads,
If I want a moderator for .223 do I just tick the box?
what about scopes?
Have to say, that's an interesting addition alright. May simplify life. However, interesting point: I've put notes in with my applications before explaining the various parts, giving a little bit about me and my circumstances and what I'm looking to do. Always seemed a good idea to me to be personal like that. With a document this size however, if you were dealing with a fullbore hunting rifle, you'd be including notes about yourself and the rifle, maybe a photo or two for clarity's sake, landowners' permissions, an NPWS licence, a note on the moderator and why you're looking for it, perhaps photos and notes on your security arrangements as well as the form. It becomes a not inconsiderable portfolio at that stage!0 -
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I suppose this section means that there's going to be a form FCA2 at some point.Section 1:
For most of us this will be a Firearm or Restricted Firearm Cert and we will all have held a cert in the previous 3 years.
Which is good since some of us can't fill this in (not having a family or personal GP). Mind you, I wonder what will happen to those of us who leave this blank, since we're refusing consent to the Gardai to look into our medical history by doing so.Section 2.2
This is not mandatory or even conditional
I'd be peeved if it was otherwise, but just for the sake of argument, what happens if the Gardai decide "no, we want character references from everyone"?Section 2.3
This is conditional in that it doesn't have to be filled if it's a substitution. As the form is actually designed for conditions other than what it's being used for now, I'd say this is the same as a substitution and not required.
Indeed, but for everyone from now on it will be. So some clarification from the Gardai as to what constitutes proof of competence would be good, especially seeing as how there is no list of officially Garda-approved training courses, and how even creating that list would be problematic with monopoly and ngo/state considerations to take into account.Section 2.5
Again conditional on it being a first time application, so not relevant to the vast majority here.
I love the wording though - "Sights? Erra, what'd you want them fer, aren't they just an accessory, like fuzzy dice for the car?"I presume the sight accessory is something like a night vision.
Nope, but they are going to create monster headaches and court cases in the next few years. That's a state-created anti-EU trading practice, right there in black and white.Section 3.3 and 3.4
These don't apply in this instance
3.4's might be of interest first though, since it appears to be a section for tracking what happens to privately sold firearms (whether they go to a dealer or another shooter or outside the country).
In fact, I think that's the first we've heard of it. Which is a bit of a surprise really. You'd think this sort of thing would be flagged a ways off, like the Range and Club SIs were.Section 3.5
The secure accomodation order 2009 is not published yet
And note that there seems to be an assumption in the form designer's mind that a firearm shall have at most two people licenced to possess it, unless by other user they actually meant owner and don't mind the owner not filling this bit in. I can see where it came from (the training licence), but it's a bit short-sighted to put this in the form and not just snag it from PULSE - I mean, that's what databases are for.Section 4.1
Self explanatory. Note that you can put in your ammo limit here
Yes, but why do they also want an essay as to the "specific type of firearm"? Do I now need to write up "Why my Anschutz 2002CA is better than every other kind of air rifle" or just "Why air rifles are needed for air rifle shooting"?Section 4.2
Good reason. As Section 4A is not commenced, the choice should only be Authorised rifle/pistol club for target shooting.
Yup. And since the Clubs SI doesn't seem to have made it to a website yet.Section 4.3
This will be fun seeing as clubs don't have pulse id's yet.
Amen to that. And the checklist is in need of that too...Guidance needed badly!0 -
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I'll give it a lash
First of all things with (M) are mandatory and (c) are conditional.
Section 1:
For most of us this will be a Firearm or Restricted Firearm Cert and we will all have held a cert in the previous 3 years.
Section 2:
Mostly self explanatory. Interesting that question about name changes.
Section 2.2
This is not mandatory or even conditional
Section 2.3
This is conditional in that it doesn't have to be filled if it's a substitution. As the form is actually designed for conditions other than what it's being used for now, I'd say this is the same as a substitution and not required.
We need this to be clarified by the Gardai because otherwise we'll get FO's around the country looking for references.
Section 2.4
Previous history is mostly self explanatory
Section 2.5
Again conditional on it being a first time application, so not relevant to the vast majority here.
Section 3
Lot of options here so hopefully better stats will come of it. I presume the sight accessory is something like a night vision.
Section 3.3 and 3.4
These don't apply in this instance
Section 3.5
The secure accomodation order 2009 is not published yet
Section 4.1
Self explanatory. Note that you can put in your ammo limit here
Section 4.2
Good reason. As Section 4A is not commenced, the choice should only be Authorised rifle/pistol club for target shooting.
Section 4.3
This will be fun seeing as clubs don't have pulse id's yet.
Section 4.4
Training Certificate will need a post dedicated to itself and also needs the guidelines for clarifiaction. Suffice to say it's here at last.
Section 5.1
For the hunters
Section 5.2
One land owner?
That's it for the applicant. Some big gaps here to be filled before people can actually complete these forms.
Guidance needed badly!
Just adding commentary on the other sections.
Section 6 & 7 are very simple and list your other certs and certify your identity.
Section 8
The Superintendent or Chief Superintendent filll this bit in and there's one bit that might cause trouble for restricted firearms owners:
"Where the firearm is Restricted, has demonstrated that it is the only type of firearm appropriate for the purpose for which it is required."
Section 9
The decision!
Quite helpfully the varoius reasons for a refusal are listed and it's dated. Note that there is a spot for additional conditions. The cynic in me says it's not big enough 0 -
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Don't followI suppose this section means that there's going to be a form FCA2 at some point.
Which is why we need clarification on this. My advice stands though and we who have held certs prior to this do not have to fill this in.I'd be peeved if it was otherwise, but just for the sake of argument, what happens if the Gardai decide "no, we want character references from everyone"?
Which is why they won't do it. I think the fact of doing a course will be good enough here. Nobody's going to sign off on people being competent if they're not.Indeed, but for everyone from now on it will be. So some clarification from the Gardai as to what constitutes proof of competence would be good, especially seeing as how there is no list of officially Garda-approved training courses, and how even creating that list would be problematic with monopoly and ngo/state considerations to take into account.
Eh? There's a place for the dealer name and their all conditional.Nope, but they are going to create monster headaches and court cases in the next few years. That's a state-created anti-EU trading practice, right there in black and white.
IndeedIn fact, I think that's the first we've heard of it. Which is a bit of a surprise really. You'd think this sort of thing would be flagged a ways off, like the Range and Club SIs were.Yes, but why do they also want an essay as to the "specific type of firearm"? Do I now need to write up "Why my Anschutz 2002CA is better than every other kind of air rifle" or just "Why air rifles are needed for air rifle shooting"?
Well only if the items on the checklist are mandatory which they're clearly not. Kind of a bit superfluous really seeing as you'll have to go back through the form to see why such and such an item wasn't included.Amen to that. And the checklist is in need of that too...0 -
Cavan Shooter I went to a lot of trouble to list all the sections and comment on them and even commented on that bit.cavan shooter wrote: »gents look at section 3.2 for a minute, it asks to list accessories such as silencers... and sights.?
Ordinary telescopic sight or is it night sights. Do I include sling/lamp/cheek pouch
You didn't bother reading it
Shame on you.
And yes, I think it's night sights which also require authorisation.0 -
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Cavan Shooter I went to a lot of trouble to list all the sections and comment on them and even commented on that bit.
You didn't bother reading it
Shame on you.
And yes, I think it's night sights which also require authorisation.
I read it all right but it's not clear and what about other/specify:D0 -
Well, there's this form, FCA1, and it's only for new applications and substitutions. So there'll have to be a new form (FCA2 or FCRA1 or whatever the code becomes) to handle renewals, right?Don't follow
Otherwise, we'd have to be re-applying every three years until we finally decide it's not worth the trouble and pack it in.
Unless you pay them, of course. In which case, especially in today's economy, it's not worth the hassle. And if the Gardai will accept any old rot as a course, then it'll be a fast race to the bottom...Which is why they won't do it. I think the fact of doing a course will be good enough here. Nobody's going to sign off on people being competent if they're not.
The conditional bit is only a condition for a new application, which isn't the problem. The problem is that only a dealer with a pulse ID or a previous Irish-licenced owner can be put into the form, backing up the no-importing-from-egun.de/frankonia policy; which is against the whole notion of free trade in the EU. Someone is going to get miffed enough about this to eventually sue someone else. It's nearly inevitable in this country.Eh? There's a place for the dealer name and their all conditional.
Hey, it'll be easy for me, but I pity the 10/22 owners...
It's going to generate a fair few FPU phone calls though when a Super in the rear end of ballywherever decides it's all mandatory. Problem with checklists on forms like this is that one is never going to fit; you nearly need one for each major use case.Well only if the items on the checklist are mandatory which they're clearly not. Kind of a bit superfluous really seeing as you'll have to go back through the form to see why such and such an item wasn't included.0 -
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Actually, it is, in the cases where you're filling in that section.The Dealer's name can be put in and the pulse id isn't mandatory.
Conditional doesn't seem to mean "conditional" so much as it seems to mean "if this section applies then this is mandatory otherwise leave blank", at least according to the instructions at the top of the form.
And yes, we could do the Irish solution of ignoring what folks write down, but, well. That'd be shame on us, wouldn't it? 0 -
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Also, there already is a new FCA2 form:
Irish version
English version
It's for amendments and cancellations of certificates.
So no more of a guard crossing something out, making an amedment and then stamping it...
Or will that still happen?0 -
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