120Mb speeds on the way

Ranicand

Brian

The fabled fibre-optic download speeds of Japan, woohoo. Let's hope it's for a price that's some way reasonable.

Copyright

In enniscrothy Chorus dont even offer broadband I guess Ive got no chance of 120mb then lol

Ranicand

Copyright wrote: »

In enniscrothy Chorus dont even offer broadband I guess Ive got no chance of 120mb then lol

Well you get plenty of clean air and open space what more could you ask for?:P

Copyright

Ranicand wrote: »

Well you get plenty of clean air and open space what more could you ask for?:P

haha the highest here is 7 mb at the moment, I think i'll move to where ever gets 120 mb, when im older haha :cool:

vibe666

lol, i was going to tell you this was old news, but you redeemed yourself with new shiny paperwork to back it up.

there was a thread on it a couple of months ago.

Baza210 wrote: »

The fabled fibre-optic download speeds of Japan, woohoo. Let's hope it's for a price that's some way reasonable.

you mean the fabled fibre-optic speeds of japan 5-6 years ago?

they're doing 1gbps now.

Copyright wrote: »

In enniscrothy Chorus dont even offer broadband I guess Ive got no chance of 120mb then lol

you will, you just need to wait for them to finish.

they've only been doing broadband in my area since november last year. they're really going all out to get to as many people as they possibly can. if you can get TV off them you can bet your area is on their list of things to do.

i think their plan is to have the regular 20mbps broadband available to all their cable customers before they roll out the 120mbps, so fingers crossed we'll all be rolling in 3 digit bandwidth come this time next year.

Skyuser

Knock off the zero and try to get 12 MB in homes first.

Copyright

vibe666 wrote: »

lol, i was going to tell you this was old news, but you redeemed yourself with new shiny paperwork to back it up.

there was a thread on it a couple of months ago.

you mean the fabled fibre-optic speeds of japan 5-6 years ago?

they're doing 1gbps now.

you will, you just need to wait for them to finish.

they've only been doing broadband in my area since november last year. they're really going all out to get to as many people as they possibly can. if you can get TV off them you can bet your area is on their list of things to do.

i think their plan is to have the regular 20mbps broadband available to all their cable customers before they roll out the 120mbps, so fingers crossed we'll all be rolling in 3 digit bandwidth come this time next year.

that would be quite, EPIC!

Tomm0

"Our network passes just over half of all homes in Ireland"

And yet according to the bloke I spoke to from NTL it doesn't cover my place, 20 minutes walk from the centre of the capital city?

Just moved into a place at Beggar's Bush. Gobsmacked that it's not available here - is there a chance the guy got it wrong?

Greenmachine

Don't believe a word of it. Check out your current speed against your claimed speed from your isp on one of the internet speed sites.

Ranicand

Greenmachine wrote: »

Don't believe a word of it. Check out your current speed against your claimed speed from your isp on one of the internet speed sites.

Well I am on UPC 10meg here is my current speed test.

Banter Joe

vibe666 wrote: »

you mean the fabled fibre-optic speeds of japan 5-6 years ago?

they're doing 1gbps now.

Wow, I didn't even know that was possible. I had 8 Mbps or something like that with UPC/Chorus earlier this year before I moved house, and it seemed really fast. Back to Eircom 1 Mbps now, and it's really only 512 kbps most of the time.

If I ever see 120 Mbps, I wouldn't know what to do!

The tax man

Tomm0 wrote: »

And yet according to the bloke I spoke to from NTL it doesn't cover my place, 20 minutes walk from the centre of the capital city?

Just moved into a place at Beggar's Bush. Gobsmacked that it's not available here - is there a chance the guy got it wrong?

If it's an apartment complex you may have a different supplier other than NTL. Quite common around Dublin.

If it's a new complex it may not be on service yet and hence the answer you got.

Brian

Banter Joe wrote: »

Wow, I didn't even know that was possible. I had 8 Mbps or something like that with UPC/Chorus earlier this year before I moved house, and it seemed really fast. Back to Eircom 1 Mbps now, and it's really only 512 kbps most of the time.

If I ever see 120 Mbps, I wouldn't know what to do!

It's more likely than you think

weisses

Skyuser wrote: »

Knock off the zero and try to get 12 MB in homes first.

I think its save to knock off the 2 as well

weisses

I just checked UPC in my native Holland and they have

Broadband: 90mbps download 6mbps upload

Telephone

Television 60 + channels

For 60 euro monthly

randomer

I have 20 mb broadband from UPC and I do get 20mb most of the time. The lowest I can remember achieving was about 12mb.

I think the pricing system is going to be reasonable for the 120mb broadband, given that they upgraded people to 20mb broadband from 10mb for free!

Kensington

Wonder will they launch a similar pricing structure to what they've got in the Netherlands?

watty

There is developing a Digital Divide between those well off with UPC or other cable or fibre and the terrible NBS and rural Wireless Dialup AKA 3G/Mobile dishonestly marketed as BB, even without the "Mobile" moniker by one company.

Kensington

watty wrote: »

There is developing a Digital Divide between those well off with UPC or other cable or fibre and the terrible NBS and rural Wireless Dialup AKA 3G/Mobile dishonestly marketed as BB, even without the "Mobile" moniker by one company.

Absolutely. Even if this country DOES manage to rollout "broadband" nationwide, they'll be back to square one again since they'll now have to start playing the catch up game with areas such as UPC, who by the sounds of it, will be have a network offering connections of in excess of 100Mbps very shortly.

Don't know if you're in a position to answer, but were UPC not involved in talks with a certain FWA provider about rolling out broadband to MMDS UPC subscribers? Or has that idea been scrapped?

dub45

I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

Kensington

dub45 wrote: »

I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

Eircom still own the switching infrastructure though, do they not? As in, calls to PSTN landlines still get routed through Eircom at some stage. I don't see UPC ever having control over that. And let's face it, if it wasn't for UPC, we'd probably still be subscribing to 512Kbps packages with 4GB limits, as broadband.

dub45

Kensington wrote: »

Eircom still own the switching infrastructure though, do they not? As in, calls to PSTN landlines still get routed through Eircom at some stage. I don't see UPC ever having control over that. And let's face it, if it wasn't for UPC, we'd probably still be subscribing to 512Kbps packages with 4GB limits, as broadband.

I am not disputing that they have brought benefits but it is not a healthy situation at all that is developing. And I dread UPC having more power given their attitude to customers.

For example they now have 22 pages of Terms and Conditions. I know they are not unique in this but it is absurd that any potential customer should have to wade through that to get broadband or any utility service for that matter. And somehow I cant imagine it being too easy to get an interpretation of a clause from a csr!

barnicles

watty wrote: »

There is developing a Digital Divide between those well off with UPC or other cable or fibre and the terrible NBS and rural Wireless Dialup AKA 3G/Mobile dishonestly marketed as BB, even without the "Mobile" moniker by one company.

Hear hear!

Why not have universal 1Mb coverage before you go for 100Mb in cities and 0.05Mb in the countryside. And Mr Ryan's "NBS" isn't exactly going to work either

Praetorian

A company like UPC is going to rollout products where it makes economic sense. They're in business to make money.

I live in a big town where there is absolutely no unbundling and no ftth fttc or cable infrastructure. I'd love to get a UPC 20 m/bit connection or 120 meg in the future. It's not going to happen, unless I move!

watty

No point in penalising the urban areas. It's real investment by a Private company too.

It just highlights the total failure of the encumbent and Government.

watty

Kensington wrote: »

Eircom still own the switching infrastructure though, do they not? As in, calls to PSTN landlines still get routed through Eircom at some stage. I don't see UPC ever having control over that. And let's face it, if it wasn't for UPC, we'd probably still be subscribing to 512Kbps packages with 4GB limits, as broadband.

PSTN calls are now the minority. For Broadband there is INEX.

Currently UPC, Magnet, Smart, Tesco, O2, (probably Meteor, though eircom owned), Vodafone, 3 Ireland and Digiweb all have their own voice networks and switches and peer to eircom. Some have International arrangements separate from eircom. Blueface may have something. UPC, Magnet, Smart, Digiweb and Blueface at least are all NGN/IP based so may be able to arrange non-ISDN peering via INEX. There are other companies involved in voice at corporate level.

As the percentage of PSTN lines drops (now 66% and 1/3rd welfare subsidized) eircom becomes less important. 120% of people have Mobile. You could easily see a scenario where less than 10% of voice traffic goes via eircom. People have been switching from fixed line to Mobile for subsidy. If in the budget they wanted to save millions per month they could ditch that expensive eircom subsidy and move the remainder to Mobile.

Unregistered.

I wouldn't get too excited about 120Mb broadband just yet! Sure enough they'll roll it out next year, probably offering it to businesses only to begin with. They'd prob offer 40-60Mb as the new "Maxi" package, then every so often "upgrade it" to a higher speed. (it won't really be an upgrade, the infrastructure for higher speed will already be there. )
That will keep them ticking over for a few years! :P

watty

dub45 wrote: »

I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

Blame the Government for badly done Privatisation of eircom, lack of regulation of eircom, allowing leveraged buyouts which load eircom with debt instead of investment, lack of joined up thinking on the MANs and the world's most stupid NBS.

UPC is simply doing what NTL and Chorus were supposed years ago to do under their licences and dragged their feet due to lack of finance.

The failure is with ComReg, Asset stripping instead of investment of eircom and the Government ignoring their own 2002 and 2004 reports
http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chapter02.htm

Recommendation 2.1 [2004]

Define broadband as a service that provides at least 512Kbs connectivity [2004] and set a target of the widespread availability of 5Mps connections by 2006 and with a further suggested target of 10Mps connections by 2008.

The Joint Committee considers it imperative to first of all define an understanding of the term broadband. During the consultation process the ICT sub-Committee heard various definitions of the term, some expressed in absolute terms and some expressed in terms of the ability to use various applications.

The Joint Committee has concluded, for the Irish market, that speeds of anything less than 512kbs is not broadband but is in fact in a class known as ‘mid-band'. This would include such services as ISDN connections and 124 and 256kbs DSL connections. In this respect the Joint Committee's definition of broadband differs from that in use by other groups and significantly differs from the definition currently to be found in Section 8 of the Finance Bill 2004. The Joint Committee believes that all connections at speeds of less than 124kbs, currently the majority in the Irish economy, have to be regarded as narrowband connections [2004].

Having said this, the ‘broadband bar' is being raised constantly and in absolute terms the definition of broadband is constantly changing, but the indisputable fact is that this is upwards, not downwards. As an example, Japan has a 26Mps services available to consumers[2004]. Therefore, broadband can be taken to have a very different meaning in Japan to Ireland. As a consequence the Joint Committee believes it will be important to review and redefine the accepted definition on a regular basis.

Dates [2004] and emphasis mine. The NBS is alleged to deliver 1.2Mbps minimum "always on". The chosen NBS (3G/iHSPA) is not "always on", may not connect and has a 50kbps minimum speed. It drops connections too, the infamous W-CDMA breathing. At only 10 simultaneous streams on a sector the per users speed is 200kbps or less. A far cry from the 2004 minumum of 512kbps to be "upgraded" with time. This is FIVE YEARS later.

dub45

watty wrote: »

Blame the Government for badly done Privatisation of eircom, lack of regulation of eircom, allowing leveraged buyouts which load eircom with debt instead of investment, lack of joined up thinking on the MANs and the world's most stupid NBS.

UPC is simply doing what NTL and Chorus were supposed years ago to do under their licences and dragged their feet due to lack of finance.

The failure is with ComReg, Asset stripping instead of investment of eircom and the Government ignoring their own 2002 and 2004 reports
http://broadband.oireachtas.ie/Chapter02.htm

Dates [2004] and emphasis mine. The NBS is alleged to deliver 1.2Mbps minimum "always on". The chosen NBS (3G/iHSPA) is not "always on", may not connect and has a 50kbps minimum speed. It drops connections too, the infamous W-CDMA breathing. At only 10 simultaneous streams on a sector the per users speed is 200kbps or less. A far cry from the 2004 minumum of 512kbps to be "upgraded" with time. This is FIVE YEARS later.

At this stage it doesn't really matter whose fault it is. In a short time UPC will have no realistic competition in the areas they choose to supply.

watty

Your suggestion to move forward is?

vibe666

Unregistered. wrote: »

I wouldn't get too excited about 120Mb broadband just yet! Sure enough they'll roll it out next year, probably offering it to businesses only to begin with. They'd prob offer 40-60Mb as the new "Maxi" package, then every so often "upgrade it" to a higher speed. (it won't really be an upgrade, the infrastructure for higher speed will already be there. )
That will keep them ticking over for a few years! :P

they launched it in the netherlands and another territory last year (possibly sweden) and said they'd launch it in the rest of their territories by the end of this year. fair enough their timeframe has slipped slightly in ireland but they've announced it here officially and it's in all their bumph already as a future residential package for early next year.

they seem to be the only one investing in infrastructure in ireland at the moment and have poured millions into getting their whole network upgraded to support these new higher speeds, so it's definitely coming.

i'm more than happy with the 20mbps i already have with them, but faster is always better because if UPC can offer 120mbps to half the households in the country then the other ISP's are going to have to do something to try and compete or lose all their business to UPC.

they must know this and they'd have to be blind not to see it coming, so I'd be very surprised if they're not working on something to increase their speeds by the time upc 120mbps hits the streets because if they don't they're gonna find themselves royally fooked very quickly.

watty

DSL is pretty much at saturation

Green line is LLU or newer eircom ADSL2+ exchanges.
Optimistic, assuming best lines and little crosstalk (the more users, the more crosstalk)
Can typically be half the speed compared with "ideal" attenuation / line distance equivalent

Blue Line is original eircom ADSL exchanges and original bitstream.

In practice there is no advantage more than 3km (45dB to 50dB), About 6Mbps to 8Mbps. The Average line length is slightly under 3km and only 15% are more than 6km (too long). However pairgains or poor line or bad connections can make a line fail. A multipair cable only 500m can be half as fast as the graph if there are a lot of DSL customers which increases cross talk. Increasing Interleaving (higher latency) reduces crosstalk and helps maintain a higher speed. ADSL2+ has slightly less crosstalk issue than original ADSL.

Advantage of VDSL over ADSL2+ ends at about 800m.

eircom have been destroying themselves for years with lack of investment and high line rental. Mobile and lack of regulation of it is also destroying customer base of fixed lines.

We need FTTC, and doing it for every house in the country would cost half of eircom's debt.

Even in Romania UPC offer up to 24Mb Speeds, 4Mb upload

http://www.upc.ro/internet/

Not exactly a developed country.

Seems UPC are good at entering a country and destroying most competition.

smellslikeshoes

dub45 wrote: »

I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

I think I would prefer a monopoly because a company grabbed the bull by the horns and put money into its infrastructure than a monopoly because a company used it's incumbent status to drag its feet and having a regulator in its pocket.

I'm skeptical about this announcement as most of these things are just for publicity but even if it does go ahead as planned I don't think they are going to be let gallop off into the distance. Imagine the pressure that will be put on Magnet/Digiweb/Smart (or their potential new owner) even Eircom will be forced into action if UPC start providing 120mbit for a reasonable price. There is nothing like a company planning to offer a product almost 10 times faster than what you're currently offering to put a fire under you

I know in Eircom's case the money to compete is definitely not there but hopefully this announcement and the eventual roll out of this product will bring on the sorting out of Eircom for the long term. It might also bring about the consolidation of some of the smaller ISP's into larger Companies that can realistically compete with a company with the clout of UPC.

watty

Most people are not going to pay a premium for a faster speed.

The number of Mobile data users is now 1/2 the number of broadband users, and dsl & fixed wireless falling because it's cheap and widely available not because it's any good or fast.

eircom have a 24Mbps product on their adsl2+ exchanges and 7.6Mbps on regular DSL, but nearly 2/3rds, certainly more than half are on 1Mbps.

There is a market for the 120Mbps, but the majority of people signing to UPC will be on the two lowest packages.

Cable can easily do this, esp. HFC. So eventually it will be sold here. But it will be the minority who really want to pay for speed and traffic.

Ranicand

Greenmachine wrote: »

Don't believe a word of it. Check out your current speed against your claimed speed from your isp on one of the internet speed sites.

And again 24 hours later UPC 10meg pack.

irishpancake

cisk wrote: »

Even in Romania UPC offer up to 24Mb Speeds, 4Mb upload

http://www.upc.ro/internet/

Not exactly a developed country.

Seems UPC are good at entering a country and destroying most competition.

Cost of 24MB in Romania: 52.00 RON = 12.4379 EUR :eek:

Also, if so-called competition will not compete, they deserve to be destroyed.

vibe666

that's the thing. if a business can't compete it goes out of business, its just natural selection. maybe ntl could end up with a monopoly if they can out do all the other broadband providers, but at the same time, if the others can't compete they shouldn't be in the market.

where would the world be if every time a company was able to out-do all the other companies in their field they were forced to keep offering lower speed/quality so they didn't create a monopoly?

sorry intel, your CPU's are just TOO damn fast. can you please keep making crappy slower ones so that AMD can keep up?

the world just doesn't work like that. only the fittest survive and the rest stagnate and die and I for one welcome our new 120mbps internet providing overloads.

Brian

Sounds quite Atlas Shrugged.

bk

dub45 wrote: »

I am surprised that nobody has raised concerns about the developing UPC monopoly. Who can realistically compete with them? And no monopoly is good irrespective of who they are.

I'm not concerned, Eircom continue to own 90% of all wired broadband (through bitstream and LLU reselling). UPC probably represent less then 10% of the wired broadband.

If UPC launch 120mb/s BB * and start gaining massive amounts of customers from Eircom, it will leave Eircom two choices, compete or die.

I assume they will take the former choice and we might start getting real competition and real speeds here.

What does concern me is that we could be left with an ever widening gap between people in urban areas with UPC 120mb/s BB and people in suburban and rural areas stuck on Eircom 1mb/s if they are lucky.

* While 120mb/s sounds great, I think it is their other products that will have a greater impact, UPC in the Netherlands sells 25mb/s BB for just €25, that is half the price Eircom charge for 1mb/s BB!!

If UPC intro 25mb/s for roughly the same price here, UPC will absolutely destroy Eircom in cabled areas.

I'd guess Eircoms response will be to introduce ADSL2+ as standard and sell it as upto 24mb/s to everyone (at least in urban areas served by UPC).

This might give them at least some chance to hold onto the low end customers who make up the majority of the customers *.

* Of course people would probably still be better off with UPC as it would offer better real speeds and cheaper prices, but if Eircom can keep the price gap down and fool people into thinking they are getting 24mb/s, a lot of people might be slow to move due to inertia.

I don't know what Eircom will do to compete with the faster products, they can only compete with these with a massive network investment in FFTC/VDSL2+ or FTTH and I just don't see where they can get the money to do this, perhaps they wont and leave the high end customers to UPC competing only for the low end customers.

Either way interesting times ahead.

hightower1

Eircoms Tech support staff +6months

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

irishpancake

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

However, just to be fair, take a look here

Monthly Minimum wage (170hrs) in Romania is 600.00 new lei.

This is equivalent to:

600.00 RON = 143.675 EUR :eek: :eek:

Kinda puts it perspective, right.

dlofnep

WellyJ

hightower1 wrote: »

Eircoms Tech support staff +6months

You honestly think Eircom's support staff can code HTML? xD

vibe666

WellyJ wrote: »

You honestly think Eircom's support staff can code HTML? xD

are you kidding? that guy's one of their managers.

CutzEr

If Eircom reduced the prices of line rental to near nothing, broadband would be alot better in this country. ALOT more people would buy broadband, and there would be price wars everywhere..

Would be a bit crazy, but it would damn sure work.

who is this

WellyJ wrote: »

You honestly think Eircom's support staff can code HTML? xD

No, but they can't provide broadband, or run reliable DNS servers either, and that's never stopped them!

vibe666

they could start investing in THIS then they wouldn't even need to worry about using their own crappy infrastruture to bring (up to) 100mbps broadband to every home in the country (assuming every home has leccy, obviously).

Unregistered.

vibe666 wrote: »

they could start investing in THIS then they wouldn't even need to worry about using their own crappy infrastruture to bring (up to) 100mbps broadband to every home in the country (assuming every home has leccy, obviously).

The ESB do that(well, something similar, but they're using their existing infrastructure), and it's leased to smaller providers like Magnet Entertainment.

What the ESB is use their power lines and twist fibrewire around it.