Normal brake disks V Drilled and Grooved

OldmanMondeo

Bluefoam wrote: »

Why not just get up rated brake pads? Ferodo green stuff for example.

Ok, probably a stupid question from someone who wholesales Ferodo pads, but what are green tops? These the racing pads?

Bluefoam

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

Ok, probably a stupid question from someone who wholesales Ferodo pads, but what are green tops? These the racing pads?

Sorry, I think I mixed those up. EBC do Green Stuff. They are performance pads, but for normal street use - no track use (that would be red stuff or yellow stuff)

Ferodo are another performance brand.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/greenstuff_brake_pads/greenstuff_brake_pads_2000.shtml

ianobrien

HashSlinging wrote: »

How the hell would you know what MY car drive's like! have you ever driven a SEAT full stop.. I bet I've driven a couple of cars from the same class of car you have and hated them.. sweeping generalisation

What do you drive again ?

Gee - The Seat is a people carrier, designed to ferry the cargo of kids & parents in a safe manner. It may have a small bit of poke to keep the father happy, and reasonable grip to keep the father happy also. It's not a performance motor.

Also I'd only upgrade the brakes if
1. You've experienced brake fade.
2. You regularly brake from 100mph plus to a stop.
3. You're being outbraked into the Karussel
4. If you need to replace brake discs/pads, if 1 to 3 actually did happen

OP, have you really used the brakes to the max? Do you regularly stamp on them so hard that the little ones go through the windscreen? If not, the current ones are fine

Take it from me, you don't need to upgrade the calipers/discs. I'm stuck in motorsport, and a change of pads and fluids does wonders in my experience. For me, new discs, pads and fluid (all o/e) will last me 160 miles of a night naviagation trial no problem, and the Ferodo DS pads in the '77 Escort, with new fluid and o/e discs/pads will stop the Escort quicker than most cars (when they're hot mind...)

cpoh1

tossy wrote: »

I have ECS tuning (US tuning house specializing in Audi/VW/BMW) 2 piece 332mm Discs paired with the 4 pot Brembo mono block calipers from the Boxster.

Here it is just after fitting..

Ive got the exact same brembo calipers on my honda integra as standard, who'd have known a knacker honda would have the same stopping power as a porsche and for a fraction of the price

Mintex m1144 pads are super for use on the street, no warming up either. Only problem is they squeek like hell.

tossy

In fairness to the OP he was only asking about upgrading the disc size,it was others who took the thread else where with a good informative debate about brakes.

The OP is driving the 2.0TDI Altea,if i remember correctly these come with the 288mm discs as standard,in my experience this is not the greatest of brake set ups the 312mm VAG brake set up is a far more competent arrangement.I even upgraded to 312's on my last car a humble(in power terms) 130bhp Golf,the 312mm set up just gives you that little bit of extra confidence in the cars ability to reign itself in,the Altea is a 1 and a half ton car throw in the family and everything else then i don't blame him for uprating.

Nowhere in this thread has the OP said it was a performance car.He merely asked about upgrading discs.

More power to him i say!

tossy

cpoh1 wrote: »

Ive got the exact same brembo calipers on my honda integra as standard, who'd have known a knacker honda would have the same stopping power as a porsche and for a fraction of the price

Mintex m1144 pads are super for use on the street, no warming up either. Only problem is they squeek like hell.

I use Hawk HPS Performance Pads which are Hawks "fast road" pad,great pad,no squeal and very clean,the do take a few minutes to warm up though.

Gary ITR

Bluefoam wrote: »

Sorry, I think I mixed those up. EBC do Green Stuff. They are performance pads, but for normal street use - no track use (that would be red stuff or yellow stuff)

Ferodo are another performance brand.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/greenstuff_brake_pads/greenstuff_brake_pads_2000.shtml

I had green stuff pads in a MK2 Golf and I found them harsh and gave a lot of vibration. Also they were brutal for just slowing down they seemed to be just on or off

Seth Brundle

Remember that some performance pads only come to life when hot and their braking power isn't hectic when they are cold!

Slidey

As it happens I somehow warped a disc on the front of my Golf(150tdi) the other night.

So out of necessity was going to upgrade as I changed them.

Was thinking of something along the lines of these with maybe fast road pads.

Not arsed with putting bigger discs, its rare that I do cane it anyway.

HashSlinging

ianobrien wrote: »

Gee - The Seat is a people carrier, designed to ferry the cargo of kids & parents in a safe manner. It may have a small bit of poke to keep the father happy, and reasonable grip to keep the father happy also. It's not a performance motor.

Also I'd only upgrade the brakes if
1. You've experienced brake fade.
2. You regularly brake from 100mph plus to a stop.
3. You're being outbraked into the Karussel
4. If you need to replace brake discs/pads, if 1 to 3 actually did happen

OP, have you really used the brakes to the max? Do you regularly stamp on them so hard that the little ones go through the windscreen? If not, the current ones are fine

Take it from me, you don't need to upgrade the calipers/discs. I'm stuck in motorsport, and a change of pads and fluids does wonders in my experience. For me, new discs, pads and fluid (all o/e) will last me 160 miles of a night naviagation trial no problem, and the Ferodo DS pads in the '77 Escort, with new fluid and o/e discs/pads will stop the Escort quicker than most cars (when they're hot mind...)

Sorry should have mentioned (maybe I did) I'm getting my car remapped next year, reason for the brake upgrade is its standard for 2.0 TDi VAG cars (FR, VRS Etc) with 170Bhp to have 312mm disks, so although my meager 140bhp car is not a high end performance demon, 312mm seems to be the standard set by manufacturer.

Thanks for your comments esp the derogatory remark "keep the father happy" I think I'll follow their lead with this one.

ianobrien

HashSlinging wrote: »

Sorry should have mentioned (maybe I did) I'm getting my car remapped next year, reason for the brake upgrade is its standard for 2.0 TDi VAG cars (FR, VRS Etc) with 170Bhp to have 312mm disks, so although my meager 140bhp car is not a high end performance demon, 312mm seems to be the standard set by manufacturer.

Thanks for your comments esp the derogatory remark "keep the father happy" I think I'll follow their lead with this one.

If I were you, I wouldn't bother worrying about the brakes at the moment. Upgrade the brakes if you have brake fade. If you drive sensibly on the road, forget the brake upgrade.

By the way, the FR, VRS etc are generally driven a bit faster than people carriers as they are the "hot" ones. The younger buyers for these generally drive a bit faster and put more pressure on the brakes

If you drive "normally", I wouldn't bother wasting my money.

I've an Escort at home with a bit more poke than standard now, and all I've done is change the pads. I could have spent 500 plus on four pot calipers & big discs, but for the 80 euro for the pads, the brakes are more than adequate. The brakes coped with 3 days of a classic retro no problem.

Yakult

Sorry to ride your thread OP but could someone link me to a website that does brake upgrades for a honda civic? (Its ok to link right??)

Fishtits

There was a post earlier in the thread that said it all, something along the lines of ~ if you don't have a problem with brake fade then don't change. If you do have a problem with brake fade on standard equip, and it doesn't involve towing a trailer then I'd suggest the driver rather than the disks as needing attention...

Bluefoam

OP, you came here looking for advice and you received some very good advice. However you have chosen to deride the comments made and decided that the opinions on here are ignorant or thay the posters don't understand your car. Well fair play to you. I hope your car is safe to drive following your modifications. My advice is that if you are a spirited driver, you should drive a car that is fundamentally designed to be driven in that way.

Snowie

Bluefoam wrote: »

Sorry, I think I mixed those up. EBC do Green Stuff. They are performance pads, but for normal street use - no track use (that would be red stuff or yellow stuff)

Ferodo are another performance brand.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/greenstuff_brake_pads/greenstuff_brake_pads_2000.shtml

EBC are performance related :eek: since when :eek:

Last time i had them on a car i cracked a disk
your better of with something like will wood or if you can afford them
Alcon they work damm good

cpoh1

Bluefoam wrote: »

OP, you came here looking for advice and you received some very good advice. However you have chosen to deride the comments made and decided that the opinions on here are ignorant or thay the posters don't understand your car. Well fair play to you. I hope your car is safe to drive following your modifications. My advice is that if you are a spirited driver, you should drive a car that is fundamentally designed to be driven in that way.

No he hasn't.

As far as im concerned any brake modifications are good whether the car needs them or not. If i had a people carrier that was carrying my family i would want as much stopping power as possible within reason and people telling im not to bother unless he's getting brake fade are way off the mark.

The only time I have ever experienced brake fade was on track, that didnt stop me fitting 282mm disks and bigger calipers on my mk2 honda crx, it improved my stopping distances massively and made my car a much safer one on the road.

OP if you are getting a remap and carrying load and family in your wagon get the brake upgrade and a decent set of pads, it'll be a muc safer environment! Try and pick the parts up cheap at beakers etc.

HashSlinging

ianobrien wrote: »

If I were you, I wouldn't bother worrying about the brakes at the moment. Upgrade the brakes if you have brake fade. If you drive sensibly on the road, forget the brake upgrade.

By the way, the FR, VRS etc are generally driven a bit faster than people carriers as they are the "hot" ones. The younger buyers for these generally drive a bit faster and put more pressure on the brakes

I drive sensibly 99% of the time, but like the majority of experienced people on here I'm just thinking of the extra stopping power needed if I did want to let the reins out a bit, thanks for the comments.

BTW My "people carrier" is available in the FR also, with 170bhp, also available in the 2.0T with 200 bhp, believe it or not. :eek:

HashSlinging

Bluefoam wrote: »

OP, you came here looking for advice and you received some very good advice. However you have chosen to deride the comments made and decided that the opinions on here are ignorant or thay the posters don't understand your car. Well fair play to you. I hope your car is safe to drive following your modifications. My advice is that if you are a spirited driver, you should drive a car that is fundamentally designed to be driven in that way.

You have made ignorant negative comments for which you got a slap on the wrist for and here you are again trying to get your last word in. I drive a family orientated car which you've never driven, and have no experience of so yes I did deride you. The rest of the comments from users here as usual have been informative, very informative actually.

Before I forget I see in another thread you are recommeding an owner of a diesel alfa get his car remapped, surely you should be recommending he quote:

if you are a spirited driver, you should drive a car that is fundamentally designed to be driven in that way.

You still havent answered my question of what car you drive? are you too ashamed that you will be ridiculed ?? I bet its a fiat.

Bluefoam

Hi OP. I drive an alfa. Its a great payoff between a good drive and an economical daily car. I haven't made any modifications bar new mats as I am happy with the base performance for my needs.

In rocommending an alfa for a remap... The car is fundamentally designed to be driven in a spirited manner. That means the chassis, suspension, centre of gravity, engine etc... Upgrading parts on an alfa is a very different matter to upgrading parts on a space wagon which is designed to carry people and their stuff, the altea is certainly not designed as a drivers car as the majority of their owners have other priorities. Btw most alfas come as standard with brakes that are more than adequet for the type of driving they are designed for.
My opinion differs from yours, and I'm sorry you think that I need to have driven your car to understand your your point of view. Maybe you could organise an open day.

Btw. I did drive the vw carvelle recently. Which I believe is the car the altea is derived from and my assessment was that the engine had plenty of power, the brakes were good. But it freightend the life out of me when going around corners at anything above a crawl.

Bluefoam

Also this is a public forum and I have a right to respond. And I have a right not to agree with you and to voice my opinions negative or otherwise.

I do however agree with the mod that I was being cheeky earlier and have since been more specific in my posts.

Slidey

Why the fcuk people cant have a sensible discussion without the pissing contest baffles me and is one of the reasons I dont post in here that often.

Btw, you are wrong, a caravelle is a van, a transporter van, dressed up as a passenger vehicle which is not going to handle like an Alfa or any car for that matter

The OP was thinking of getting a brake upgrade, good on him I say. I have seen far too many people upgrade power, wheels, put lowering kits on and still fit 13euro brake pads from the local autofactors.

Redsoxfan

kbannon wrote: »

Remember that some performance pads only come to life when hot and their braking power isn't hectic when they are cold!

Hmm. I changed my OEM discs and who-knows-what type pads on a diesel Alfa GT there in February (or rather I bought the parts and had them fitted as part of a service). I put EBC Performance discs on the front (slotted and dimpled) and on the back standard. I got Ferodo DS Performance pads for the front and EBC standard pads for the back. Everything was recommended for street use.

I've done a few thousand miles since and have to say that the performance of the brakes has been disappointing-the car stops, but nowhere near as well as I would like-could it be that the EBC discs aren't up to much in general or are really only suited for 'heavy' use? I drive the car every day, and would consider my driving to be 'lively'.

tossy

Bluefoam wrote: »

Hi OP. I drive an alfa.

So he was right you do drive a Fiat and lets bring it back to roost here,you wont be able to give it away when ti comes time to change

I'm only joking but do you see how annoying it is when someone offers an opinion that is somewhat derisory and not really what the OP wants to hear?

Bluefoam it sounds like you have some good advice to give your technique needs fine tuning (remapping if you will ) though.

There is no VW equivalent of the altea,a guy in work has one and it handles pretty decently for an MPv stlye car,seats have always handled well the old mk1 leon which was based on the MK4 golf was light years ahead of the golf in terms of handling even in standard guise.

ianobrien

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Hmm. I changed my OEM discs and who-knows-what type pads on a diesel Alfa GT there in February (or rather I bought the parts and had them fitted as part of a service). I put EBC Performance discs on the front (slotted and dimpled) and on the back standard. I got Ferodo DS Performance pads for the front and EBC standard pads for the back. Everything was recommended for street use.

I've done a few thousand miles since and have to say that the performance of the brakes has been disappointing-the car stops, but nowhere near as well as I would like-could it be that the EBC discs aren't up to much in general or are really only suited for 'heavy' use? I drive the car every day, and would consider my driving to be 'lively'.

I had Ferodo DS Performance pads in a AX GT before, and they needed a bit of heat to work well. A small bit of left foot braking should work to get them nice & hot.

ianobrien

OP, Just thinking. If you put in the big brakes, can the master cylinder move enough fluid? What'll happen is that you'll have to press the brake pedal more to move enough fluid to push the bigger pistons in the calipers. You may have to change the master cylinder, and what effect will this have, if any, on the ABS?

Neilw

ianobrien wrote: »

OP, Just thinking. If you put in the big brakes, can the master cylinder move enough fluid? What'll happen is that you'll have to press the brake pedal more to move enough fluid to push the bigger pistons in the calipers. You may have to change the master cylinder, and what effect will this have, if any, on the ABS?

Most multi piston calipers usually have smaller pistons then the bigger single piston calipers so there is no need to replace the master cylinder.

An example would be the leon cupra R, it has brembo 4 piston calipers as standard and it's master cylinder is used across the audi/vw range with single piston calipers

tossy

Neilw wrote: »

Most multi piston calipers usually have smaller pistons then the bigger single piston calipers so there is no need to replace the master cylinder.

An example would be the leon cupra R, it has brembo 4 piston calipers as standard and it's master cylinder is used across the audi/vw range with single piston calipers

+1 on this the master cylinder is well up to the Job.

ianobrien

Neilw wrote: »

it's master cylinder is used across the audi/vw range with single piston calipers

I find that strange, that the master cylinder from a Lupo would have the same bore as the master cylinder from a Passat, but if you say so

Neilw

ianobrien wrote: »

I find that strange, that the master cylinder from a Lupo would have the same bore as the master cylinder from a Passat, but if you say so

I never mentioned a lupo, I should have been clearer. It's used across mk4 based cars, TT, S3, golf and so on.