Sugar - Usage in endurance cycling and risk of diabetes

Johnny909

Hi,

I think this is the right place for this post...

To give some background: I'm a 25 year old man and I'm very active. I weigh about 50-55kg and I'm around 5'8" I cycle about 250-350km per week and race regularly.

I recently decided to look at improving my diet - mainly to improve my performance but also because my uncle was recently diagnosed with adult onset diabetes. I've never really thought about my diet before and would say I've always eaten fairly poorly.

I've really cut a lot of sugar out of my diet. I used to gorge on sweets almost every evening after dinner and I'd have a few cups of coffee a day with 2 sugars in each. Now I'm down to one cup of coffee with one sugar every day, and the odd few sweets here or there, usually at the weekend.

The sugar has been out of my diet for about 2 months now but I'm really finding it hard, especially trying to keep my energy levels up when on the bike. I'd usually bring a banana on a 2 hour ride where as previous to that I would have eaten some jellys or a chocolate bar or something and I just don't think the bananas are cutting it.

Basically, I've 2 questions:

1) Do I need to worry about my sugar consumption given that I'm very active? Do I still risk diabetes as much as a sedentary person would?

2) Where can I get energy from while out on the bike without consuming huge quantities of sugar?

Thanks in advance for your advice, and I hope this is in the right place.

I've been looking on the cycling forum but nobody seems concerned about sugar intake.

hunnymonster

as I understand it, so long as most of your biking is done aerobically you are fine to consume sugar during rides and directly afterwards as it's readily available fuel for the exercise and recovery. For the rest of the time, the guidelines are the same as for the general population.

If you still want alternatives to jellies on the bike, some of the things I take on long spins include

• banana
• home made flapjacks
• chicken & salad wraps - heaven on those extra long rides and fit nicely in a bento box
• brown bread (surprisingly easy to eat on the move)

These are not necessarily low sugar but are low on refining and processing.

all_smilz

I think other posters will agree with this (prob before this thread is locked) that you need to talk to your GP, or Consultant or Diabetic Nurse specialist/Nutritionist.

SUGAR is a no no for most diabetics because of the longterm implications.

I am not an expert except in my own field but you need to seek proper professional advice.

Best wishes with that!

rubadub

all_smilz wrote: »

SUGAR is a no no for most diabetics because of the longterm implications.!

his uncle is the diabetic though, not him, seems it just brought it home that he could develop it if he continues on the same path.

Johnny909 wrote: »

2) Where can I get energy from while out on the bike without consuming huge quantities of sugar?

You have simple carbs, processed sugars, white bread/pasta/rice, and then complex carbs. Best stick with the complex cabs like wholegrain/wholemeal bread (read the ingredients, "wheatflour" is white flour even if the bread looks brown it can be loaded with white flour & colouring). Porridge, or oats in general are great energy sources. Your bananas are about 22% sugar and relatively high GI so should give the same energy hit, maybe you are just craving the chocolate & sweets as you are used to them.

You probably can get away with eating more simple carbs due to your exercise levels, I will leave that to someone else to comment on.

all_smilz

OH DOH ME!
sorry OP.
I am sicky today and didnt read it right....
i take it back.
*time to go to bed me thinks*

apologies

Johnny909

rubadub wrote: »

his uncle is the diabetic though, not him, seems it just brought it home that he could develop it if he continues on the same path.

Yep - that's it alright. Don't want to end up with diabetes and when i thought about my diet, it was full of sugar

rubadub wrote: »

You have simple carbs, processed sugars, white bread/pasta/rice, and then complex carbs. Best stick with the complex cabs like wholegrain/wholemeal bread (read the ingredients, "wheatflour" is white flour even if the bread looks brown it can be loaded with white flour & colouring). Porridge, or oats in general are great energy sources. Your bananas are about 22% sugar and relatively high GI so should give the same energy hit, maybe you are just craving the chocolate & sweets as you are used to them.

Yeah - have moved from eating normal pasta to wholegrain & minimise the amount of white bread i eat too

Johnny909

hunnymonster wrote: »

as I understand it, so long as most of your biking is done aerobically you are fine to consume sugar during rides and directly afterwards as it's readily available fuel for the exercise and recovery. For the rest of the time, the guidelines are the same as for the general population.

If you still want alternatives to jellies on the bike, some of the things I take on long spins include

• banana
• home made flapjacks
• chicken & salad wraps - heaven on those extra long rides and fit nicely in a bento box
• brown bread (surprisingly easy to eat on the move)

These are not necessarily low sugar but are low on refining and processing.

Great stuff! thanks for the suggestions. Do you use any particular recipe for home made flapjacks?

Also in response to one of the other posts - I know bananas should give me the same sort of hit as jellys would, and they do to a certain degree but I don't find them substantial enough. Unless I was to eat a few, and it's hard enough to carry one!

MeatProduct

Hi Johnny,

Are you still taking tea/coffee with sugar? I've found, to restore your own energy levels, you need to remove sugar 100% from your diet and this is quite a trick let me tell you. Sugar is in a great deal of products. I've come off sugar entirely a number of times in my live and it is always accompanied with a day-long migrane as my body goes through detox from the chemical.

I have more energy than I get from sugar now and it is more consistant. Like yourself I exercise a lot and I am better than I ever was for energy levels. The trick is to not rely on any drug for external energy, that includes tea/coffe. Then your body doesn't use them as a crutch for energy.

I've had great success with this, it's consistant and constant.

Nick

Johnny909

MeatProduct wrote: »

Hi Johnny,

Are you still taking tea/coffee with sugar? I've found, to restore your own energy levels, you need to remove sugar 100% from your diet and this is quite a trick let me tell you. Sugar is in a great deal of products. I've come off sugar entirely a number of times in my live and it is always accompanied with a day-long migrane as my body goes through detox from the chemical.

I have more energy than I get from sugar now and it is more consistant. Like yourself I exercise a lot and I am better than I ever was for energy levels. The trick is to not rely on any drug for external energy, that includes tea/coffe. Then your body doesn't use them as a crutch for energy.

I've had great success with this, it's consistant and constant.

Nick

Hi nick

thanks for the post and I appreciate your advice - you may be right - but to be honest, I'm just not prepared to cut coffee out of my diet! I do still take 1 teaspoon (more like 3 quarters of a teaspoon really) in my 1 coffee per day. I don't drink tea at all.

Johnny

ApeXaviour

MeatProduct wrote: »

Hi Johnny,

Are you still taking tea/coffee with sugar? I've found, to restore your own energy levels, you need to remove sugar 100% from your diet and this is quite a trick let me tell you. Sugar is in a great deal of products. I've come off sugar entirely a number of times in my live and it is always accompanied with a day-long migrane as my body goes through detox from the chemical.

+1
Sugar is basically an anti-nutrient. You don't require it in any shape or form. You'll soon recover from your addiction to it (and get your energy levels back) if you remove it completely from your diet. Try splenda if really want your coffee. It's made from sucralose (as opposed to aspartame), far more preferable than sugar.

Interesting aside: traditionally type II diabetes is treated with a low glycemic index diet. Here's a recent medical news article reporting a study showing the no-glycemic diet (i.e. low carb) is significantly better at controlling blood sugar than the low-gi diet.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/134541.php
It makes sense. Carbohydrates are just more complex sugars, they increase your blood sugar, something you don't want to happen if you have diabetes. Type II diabetes is an advanced stage of insulin resistance (where you've been producing so much insulin because of all the sugar/carbohydrates, your cells become resistant to its effects, requiring you to produce more to have the same effect, a vicious circle).
If you have a family history of diabetes and you scoff a lot of sweets you're quite likely insulin resistant. Most people are to some degree due to the inordinate amount of sugar we consume.

I'd recommend reading Dr. Mike and Mary Eades' book Protein Power. It's a fantastic read, also for the fit and healthy like yourself. It's covers a lot about insulin and your diet. Just understanding what was going on, what it did to you really really helped me cut out sugar significantly. Whereas before it was like "I know it's bad for me, but I don't really know why, it couldn't be that bad, I mean it's just a chocolate bar, and I'm not fat, I'll just eat it" etc.

Johnny909

ApeXaviour wrote: »

+1
Sugar is basically an anti-nutrient. You don't require it in any shape or form. You'll soon recover from your addiction to it (and get your energy levels back) if you remove it completely from your diet. Try splenda if really want your coffee. It's made from sucralose (as opposed to aspartame), far more preferable than sugar.

Interesting aside: traditionally type II diabetes is treated with a low glycemic index diet. Here's a recent medical news article reporting a study showing the no-glycemic diet (i.e. low carb) is significantly better at controlling blood sugar than the low-gi diet.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/134541.php
It makes sense. Carbohydrates are just more complex sugars, they increase your blood sugar, something you don't want to happen if you have diabetes. Type II diabetes is an advanced stage of insulin resistance (where you've been producing so much insulin because of all the sugar/carbohydrates, your cells become resistant to its effects, requiring you to produce more to have the same effect, a vicious circle).
If you have a family history of diabetes and you scoff a lot of sweets you're quite likely insulin resistant. Most people are to some degree due to the inordinate amount of sugar we consume.

I'd recommend reading Dr. Mike and Mary Eades' book Protein Power. It's a fantastic read, also for the fit and healthy like yourself. It's covers a lot about insulin and your diet. Just understanding what was going on, what it did to you really really helped me cut out sugar significantly. Whereas before it was like "I know it's bad for me, but I don't really know why, it couldn't be that bad, I mean it's just a chocolate bar, and I'm not fat, I'll just eat it" etc.

Thanks for your input ApeXaviour. I'll check out that book alright for more info about insulin etc. but I don't think a low carb diet is really an option for an endurance athlete.

Maybe somebody more knowledgable can correct me if I'm wrong - but anything I've ever read about nutrition in cycling is that carbs are where it's at with regard to fuelling your body - i.e. your body burns carbs while exercising easier than anything else. Energy from other sources isn't absorbed quickly enough I guess.

Is having three quarters of a teaspoon of sugar per day really that bad? I've seriously cut out 99% of sweets/chocolate/fizzy drinks from my diet.

Just to clarify, I don't actually HAVE diabetes - it's just my uncle was recently diagnosed with it.

Johnny909

Actually, there is a professional cycling team called Team Type II which is basically for people with type II diabetes - maybe i'll read up about them.

MeatProduct

Johnny909 wrote: »

Is having three quarters of a teaspoon of sugar per day really that bad? I've seriously cut out 99% of sweets/chocolate/fizzy drinks from my diet.

Hey Johnny,

Unfortunately it's an all or nothing deal with sugar. As long as there's a trace of it in the system your body still depends on it. It's like the difference between throwing buckets of petrol on a fire as opposed to cups of petrol, the fire is still buring.

What's worked for me in the past is go clean for 3 weeks. Just tell yourself it's only 3 weeks and you can eat as much sugars as you like once the 3 weeks are up. Thankfully, after the 3 weeks you'll have absolutely no desire for suger since you are no longer chemically addicted to it. It is a drug Johnny, that's why it's so damn hard to come off it. It's like cheese, which acts as a dopamine, tis hard to come off it when your body is getting a kick out of it

I'm 100% vegan at the moment and go between cycles of being on and off refined foods. For someone like yourself who is fit I promise you if you come off oils also you will see fittness increases. Olive oil can reduce your blood flow by up to 34%, have a read off this. Obviously this reduces the amount of oxygen getting to your organs and muscles and reduces your performance.

If you really want imporvements in performance there is a lot you can do. I recommend going vegan sensibly, you really need to read up on it and become knowledegable in nuitrition. Meat has a lot of nutriants in it and going vegan requires that you get all those nutriants from 1st hand sources rather than the 2nd meat source. The combination of animal protein and cholesterol is a real killer to performance. I know I say it a lot but Carl Lewis had his best year when he went on a 100% plant-based diet.

I've tried lots of different diets, mostly based on dairy/meat, for fittness reasons and I've so far found the vegan diet the best. Although it's taken me about 3 years of trial and error.

Back to the sugar though, you'd really need to eliminate it entirely. The body hasn't a clue how to deal with it, it's quite destructive and impairs performance.

Nick

rubadub

MeatProduct wrote: »

I know I say it a lot but Carl Lewis had his best year when he went on a 100% plant-based diet.

Many athletes thrive IN SPITE of their diet, look at 2 of the worlds most phenomenal athletes at the moment, Michael Phelps, and Usain Bolt, both also renowned also for their poor diets.

There was a thread on lewis being vegan here

There was a documentary with Colin Jackson before too.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/truthaboutfood/best/martialveggies.shtml

We also asked Colin Jackson to act as a control and become a vegetarian for eight weeks to see how much his sporting prowess depended on his meat intake.

The results? Well, anecdotally, Colin believed that being a vegetarian definitely made him weaker; he thought his muscle tone had reduced and he could manage five less push ups as a veggie than he could as a fully fledged carnivore.

Others in the tests were inconclusive, as I would expect different things suit different people.

The OP is an endurance athlete, I would be more interested in hearing about Lance Armstrong than a sprinter like Lewis, but also there is no point eating like Phelps thinking that will make you like him.

Are there any vegan endurance cyclists out there? what type of food do they bring along on a spin? It would want to be as calorie dense as possible to reduce weight.

Also Johnny at even 55kg your BMI is 18.4 and classed as underweight. Now people usually say BMI is not a great measure for athletes, but this is usually since they are muscular and usually are deemed overweight. But perhaps you have a small frame and are OK.

Johnny909

rubadub wrote: »

Also Johnny at even 55kg your BMI is 18.4 and classed as underweight. Now people usually say BMI is not a great measure for athletes, but this is usually since they are muscular and usually are deemed overweight. But perhaps you have a small frame and are OK.

If I am underweight, it's not through lack of eating, I can tell you that! I eat a LOT of food. And it doesn't seem to affect my weight at all...

I've only been cycling a few years, and before I started I remember being constantly around the 57kg (9 stone) mark - regardless of my diet my weight never went up or down. I was also quite inactive, smoked, and was very fond of alcohol.

Johnny909

MeatProduct wrote: »

I'm 100% vegan at the moment and go between cycles of being on and off refined foods. For someone like yourself who is fit I promise you if you come off oils also you will see fittness increases. Olive oil can reduce your blood flow by up to 34%, have a read off this. Obviously this reduces the amount of oxygen getting to your organs and muscles and reduces your performance.

Again, thanks for the advice & input but I can't see myself going vegetarian, let alone vegan.

In relation to olive oil - I had heard something about that previously alright but even that article you link to explains that it's just one small study so you can't really take it too seriously (yet, perhaps). It also goes on to say:

Vogel's own research, in fact, has shown that when olive oil is combined with foods rich in antioxidants, such as vegetables, the vessel-constricting effect disappears. All you have to do is combine olive oil with red wine vinegar, which is loaded with the same antioxidants found in wine, and it appears you can prevent the deleterious effect on blood vessels.

eclectichoney

MeatProduct wrote: »

Back to the sugar though, you'd really need to eliminate it entirely. The body hasn't a clue how to deal with it, it's quite destructive and impairs performance.

Interesting thread By sugar do you mean 'table sugar' or anything with 'table sugar' in it or literally anything with sugar (e.g. fruit, peas etc. anything basically that lists 'of which sugars' under the carbs nutritional info). Forgive the stupid question, I don't understand the finer points of nutrition to say the least!

Johnny909

MeatProduct wrote: »

Hey Johnny,

Unfortunately it's an all or nothing deal with sugar. As long as there's a trace of it in the system your body still depends on it. It's like the difference between throwing buckets of petrol on a fire as opposed to cups of petrol, the fire is still buring.

MeatProduct wrote:

Back to the sugar though, you'd really need to eliminate it entirely. The body hasn't a clue how to deal with it, it's quite destructive and impairs performance.

I should clarify something here: the main reason I'm cutting sugar out of my diet was to avoid developing diabetes, not to improve performance.

I hadn't heard of small amounts of sugar affecting performance though - can you point me to any links?

In relation to the "not relying on any stimulant" part of your earlier post, in particular tea/coffee - caffeine is actually a performance enhancer. Not the way I drink it, i.e. one cup a day, every day. But if you don't drink coffee usually and, say, drink 2 or 3 cups before a race your performance will be improved. In fact caffeine is considered a performance enhancing drug and is tested for in dope tests (over a certain threshold obviously)

Although it is a diuretic...

MeatProduct

Johnny909 wrote: »

Again, thanks for the advice & input but I can't see myself going vegetarian, let alone vegan.

In relation to olive oil - I had heard something about that previously alright but even that article you link to explains that it's just one small study so you can't really take it too seriously (yet, perhaps). It also goes on to say:

Best bet is to try it out yourself. Start to pay attention to how your body performs after taking any type of oil, be it vegetable-based or otherwise.

Nick

MeatProduct

eclectichoney wrote: »

Interesting thread By sugar do you mean 'table sugar' or anything with 'table sugar' in it or literally anything with sugar (e.g. fruit, peas etc. anything basically that lists 'of which sugars' under the carbs nutritional info). Forgive the stupid question, I don't understand the finer points of nutrition to say the least!

Indeed, I am just refering to refined sugars like table sugar. I've got no beef with naturally occuring sugars

Nick

Johnny909

MeatProduct wrote: »

Indeed, I am just refering to refined sugars like table sugar. I've got no beef with naturally occuring sugars

Nick

Another question along the same lines... is there much difference between an unrefined brown sugar (such as an unrefined demerara sugar) and your bog standard siucra?

MeatProduct

Johnny909 wrote: »

I hadn't heard of small amounts of sugar affecting performance though - can you point me to any links?

Hi again Johnny,

Sugar certainly does affect performance. Here's a few of of the effects of regular sugar intake:

Immune system suppression
Upsets the body's mineral balance
Produces a significant rise in triglycerides.
Can cause drowsiness and decreased activity in children.
It can promote an elevation of harmful cholesterol (LDLs).
Can cause hypoglycemia.
Contribute to kidney damage.
Contribute to weight gain and obesity.
Can contribute to osteoporosis.
Can cause cardiovascular disease.

There's loads more. Here's a few links for you:

The Affect of Sugar on Health
A Less Scary Article
A Documentry on Big Sugar

Nick

Johnny909

MeatProduct wrote: »

Hi again Johnny,

Sugar certainly does affect performance. Here's a few of of the effects of regular sugar intake:

Immune system suppression
Upsets the body's mineral balance
Produces a significant rise in triglycerides.
Can cause drowsiness and decreased activity in children.
It can promote an elevation of harmful cholesterol (LDLs).
Can cause hypoglycemia.
Contribute to kidney damage.
Contribute to weight gain and obesity.
Can contribute to osteoporosis.
Can cause cardiovascular disease.

There's loads more. Here's a few links for you:

The Affect of Sugar on Health
A Less Scary Article
A Documentry on Big Sugar

Nick

Thanks for the links - there's definitely some interesting reading there but from what I can see they're mainly talking about the health implications of eating too much sugar, rather than sugar's effect on athletic performance.

rubadub

Johnny909 wrote: »

rather than sugar's effect on athletic performance.

Johnny- I am going to move this thread into the fitness forum, I think it would be better suited there, there are a lot of people there who will have experience with using simple carbs in conjunction with exercise, so best to get the pros & cons listed. I also made a more descriptive thread title, I hope you don't mind.

MeatProduct

Johnny909 wrote: »

Thanks for the links - there's definitely some interesting reading there but from what I can see they're mainly talking about the health implications of eating too much sugar, rather than sugar's effect on athletic performance.

What I listed there has serious effects on performance.

Nick

Khannie

ApeXaviour wrote: »

I'd recommend reading Dr. Mike and Mary Eades' book Protein Power.

4.19 including delivery. *yoink*

Looking forward to it. Cheers.

Khannie

I use simple carbs with exercise all the time. Not in large quantities mind you, but I use them. It's possible to use insulin effectively to aid recovery and improve endurance.

In general I avoid simple carbs by opting for the more complex carb alternative (more vegetables instead of potato / rice, etc.). If you're finding that a banana isn't doing it for you (there isn't a huge amount of energy in a banana), I'd say bring two, or three, or brown bread as was suggested seems like a good one. Raisins could be good too.

I'll tend to carb up before exercise by having, for example, a banana and an apple. I'll also have some of an isotonic drink before and during training sessions (not always).

If you're concerned about insulin resistance, learning about it and eating more wholefoods / lower GI foods is worth doing.

MeatProduct wrote: »

Indeed, I am just refering to refined sugars like table sugar. I've got no beef with naturally occuring sugars

I don't see how simple carbs from natural sources are any better than simple carbs from refined sources tbh. They either produce an insulin response, or don't.

Sapsorrow

Just a note adult onset diabetes is often related to over consumption of fat and/or calories in general leading to obesity (esp central), inactivity, surgery, cancer, metabolic syndrome etc.. which in turn lead to the development of the disease.
Sugar usually isn't the primary culprit in the development of the disease unless this is where a significant excess of calories (leading to unhealthy weight gain) is coming from more it is an imprtant factor in disease management.
That being said refined sugar is pure poison for a whole host of other reasons in my opinion and should be avoided as much as possible.

Khannie

ApeXaviour wrote: »

Dr. Mike and Mary Eades' book Protein Power.

I'm reliably informed that this arrived in todays post. Looking forward to reading it.