Habitual Cannabis/coke users

oppenheimer1

For those that like to smoke the odd spliff of hash/weed or the odd line of coke or whatever. Have you ever thought that you are part of Irelands drug problem and that your use of these substances funds the gangs the gangs that terrorise neighbourhoods in our cities? I often wonder when I see drugs related threads on this board, and the harsh punishments suggested by posters for the drug gangs, yet some of which have admitted to occasionally using their products.

Is it hypocritical for posters to recommend harsh sentences for drug barons, while it would appear that at least some of them use their drugs on at least a semi regular basis?

Do casual users have blood on their hands?

<EDIT>
OR do you feel guilty for not forcing the government to change their stance on drugs and try an alternative solution to fix the problems? Such as grow your own for personal use, and campaign to change the law? One could argue the apathy gives fuel to the gang problem?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

do you drive a car? How does it feel to participate in the habitual torture, rape and murder of innocent saudi women?

discostick12

Op everytime I buy a bit of weed and have the odd joint I always think of the same thing.
Am I helping the dealers to buy their guns to use on other gangs? Yes maybe

But to me personally I think they find other reasons for killing other than drug related.

The_Minister

discostick12 wrote: »

But to me personally I think they find other reasons for killing other than drug related.

Nope.

Thats pretty much their only reason.


And OP, I think every thinking person who uses drugs probably thinks of that, but most just shrug it off, rationalise it, or get it from abroad.

starbelgrade

If yr buying weed & coke from Irish dealers, you probably are contributing to their gang wars... but you are without doubt paying for god awful, sh*te riddled cr*p. You'd be better off sniffing a bottle of hairspray for all the bad it will do you.

Personally, I'd rather smoke my car tyres & sniff some Persil.

oppenheimer1

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

do you drive a car? How does it feel to participate in the habitual torture, rape and murder of innocent saudi women?

You are being fallacious. They are not the same thing

starbelgrade

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

do you drive a car? How does it feel to participate in the habitual torture, rape and murder of innocent saudi women?

Cripes - I'd no idea my car got up to so much while I was asleep. Knight Rider, how are ya?

discostick12

The_Minister wrote: »

Nope.

Thats pretty much their only reason.


And OP, I think every thinking person who uses drugs probably thinks of that, but most just shrug it off, rationalise it, or get it from abroad.

It prob their main reason but it's not the only ones, there gangs out there who go out and murder ''rival'' gangs for power and name, I do agree thou that it is mostly drugs, but if there was no drugs they still find reasons

carlmango11

Thats why legalization of weed is more good than bad imo, not coke though.

But just because ordinary people may fund their crimes doesn't mean they shouldn't get harsh sentences.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

You are being fallacious. They are not the same thing

how's that exactly?

an entire people being opressed by an oil rich royal family and their religious police force so that you can get around the country quicker. On the moral stakes, a tad more impressive than a few gangland shootings because some people buy something the government has forced into the black market.

The_Minister

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

how's that exactly?

an entire people being opressed by an oil rich royal family and their religious police force so that you can get around the country quicker. On the moral stakes, a tad more impressive than a few gangland shootings because some people buy something the government has forced into the black market.

We get oil from countries like Norway, Russia etc. We don't (last time I checked) get all that much from Saudi Arabia.

rockmongrel

Well I'm of the opinion the government should have no say in whether I use narcotics, so if I'm funding a gang war, not my problem. Set up a system where I can get it legally or let others do the same.

The war on drugs has been lost, get over it.

oppenheimer1

carlmango11 wrote: »

Thats why legalization of weed is more good than bad imo, not coke though.

But just because ordinary people may fund their crimes doesn't mean they shouldn't get harsh sentences.

But is there not a certain hypocrisy in recommending harsh sentences, when it is their use which creates the market/demand.

If there were no drug users, there would be no drug crime no? Sure we would still have thieves, but there wouldn't be the gang ghettos we have today.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ah, Russia. Nice human rights minded country. You must all feel very proud of yourselves.

oppenheimer1

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

how's that exactly?

an entire people being opressed by an oil rich royal family and their religious police force so that you can get around the country quicker. On the moral stakes, a tad more impressive than a few gangland shootings because some people buy something the government has forced into the black market.

The EU uses "sweet" crude oil, which has less sulphur, for environmental reasons. This isn't sourced from Saudi Arabia. Anyway Saudi is a soverign nation, who are we to impose our morals on other nations even if we don't agree with them. In Ireland narcotics aren't legal, therefore their use funds a black economy. They're illegal for a reason, they harm society. Its much the same reason pharmaceuticals are restricted. Self medicating is harmful. Would casual drug users like to see open sale of prescription drugs too?

rockmongrel

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

The EU uses "sweet" crude oil, which has less sulphur, for environmental reasons. This isn't sourced from Saudi Arabia. Anyway Saudi is a soverign nation, who are we to impose our morals on other nations even if we don't agree with them. In Ireland narcotics aren't legal, therefore their use funds a black economy. They're illegal for a reason, they harm society. Its much the same reason pharmaceuticals are restricted. Self medicating is harmful. Would casual drug users like to see open sale of prescription drugs too?

I would say its a better idea to pursue the drug users other than the drugs themselves.
You take whatever drugs or narcotics or whatever you like, but as soon as there is an impediment on society, then you have a problem.
Not prevention by prosecution, but prevention by consequence in my opinion.

jumpguy

Yes, sadly, it does. You could draw parellels all day but at the end of the day, the money you hand over for a bag of weed is going straight into the grubby hands of drug barons. They'll then use it to live their lavish lives while angering us all because there is some ****ty scumbag who never worked a day in his life driving an 09 car with state benefits to boot. You also fund his weapons and their little feuds which contribute to the violence on our streets, broken neighbourhoods and communities, "rough" parts of cities and towns, ruining many people's lives. Nevermind the deaths from high kids doing crazy things and killing themselves or others. No good can come of it, sorry, and don't even try to justify it. Stop kidding yourself.

rockmongrel

jumpguy wrote: »

Yes, sadly, it does. You could draw parellels all day but at the end of the day, the money you hand over for a bag of weed is going straight into the grubby hands of drug barons. They'll then use it to live their lavish lives while angering us all because there is some ****ty scumbag who never worked a day in his life driving an 09 car with state benefits to boot. You also fund his weapons and their little feuds which contribute to the violence on our streets, broken neighbourhoods and communities, "rough" parts of cities and towns, ruining many people's lives. Nevermind the deaths from high kids doing crazy things and killing themselves or others. No good can come of it, sorry, and don't even try to justify it. Stop kidding yourself.

So drugs are bad or drug dealers?
I really think a line needs to be drawn between the two, the time of being afraid of drugs is over, up until the 19th century anything was legal, then we got so PC and protective its repugnant.
I would agree dealers are bad, and as for your statement of them living off the state, I'm also of the idea of abolishing the dole

*edit for smiley*

Fink Goddie

I tried sniffing coke once, but the ice cubes got stuck up my nose

Canis Lupus

Ohh look. A thread about weed on AH.

TheZohanS

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Ohh look. A thread about weed on AH.

We've had racism, weed, abortion threads over the last two weeks.


Looking forward to the prostitutes! :pac:

Kiera

TheZohan wrote: »

We've had racism, weed, abortion threads over the last two weeks.


Looking forward to the prostitutes! :pac:

Would you be posting a lot in that thread? :P

anonymous_joe

TheZohan wrote: »

We've had racism, weed, abortion threads over the last two weeks.


Looking forward to the prostitutes! :pac:

What about 'taxi drivers - a big bunch of bástards' or 'immigrants - now I'm not a racist, but...'?

994

Do you eat chocolate? A quarter of the world's cocoa is harvested by slaves.

CCCP^

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

who are we to impose our morals on other nations even if we don't agree with them. In Ireland narcotics aren't legal, therefore their use funds a black economy. They're illegal for a reason, they harm society. Its much the same reason pharmaceuticals are restricted. Self medicating is harmful. Would casual drug users like to see open sale of prescription drugs too?

Mmm, yes. Who are we to impose our own moral standards on anybody else just because they don't conform with our own standards?

So exactly how do drugs harm society Oppenheimer? Well lets take 2 very well established examples - cigarettes and alcohol. Every year, thousands of people clog up an already fatally slow HSE system with health problems related to smoking or drinking. People get into crashes while driving under the influence. There are huge anti-social problems related to people drinking.

Think of all of the resources that go into tackling these problems. And all these problems are considered either worth it or just an unfortunate side effect because those items - alcohol and cigarettes, can be taxed to the hilt and people will keep buying them.

I think alcohol and cigarettes should be banned, dont you Oppenheimer, or are you just another hypocrite?

Canis Lupus

994 wrote: »

Do you eat chocolate? A quarter of the world's cocoa is harvested by slaves.

Ah nothing wrong with a bit of slavery.

BraziliaNZ

They don't sell coke in Ireland anyway, it's probably about 5% pure. I used to buy it a few years ago but wouldn't go near the crap they sell here now. As for weed, I don't really know if there are many killings over this stuff, the few people shot in my area lately have all been "coke" related. The fact that they kill each other over that MUCK they sell is unbelievable, leave them to it i say.

JimmyCrackCorn!

Yipee keyboard warriors save the world :rolleyes:

I for one propose vigilantism! We round up all the drug users and break all there fingers. Who is with me!

Oh The Humanity

I don't use coke but I do smoke.

The honest answer is I dont care.

I need my weed and I have been smoking hash for donkeys yesrs before all this gang crap.

The whole gang thing is just boring, taking up pages in the papers every day that could easily be dedicated to more interesting stuff. I don't read it because I don't care. In fact the more they fight with each other and kill each other the less I care.

Hash and weed (to a lesser extent) have always been available here even before gangs.

Hash is a commodity which will always be in demand, at the moment its black market product which means no tax but that could change in the future. I dont care as long as I get mine.

The gangs have an autonomy of their own and would exist without hash so I do not feel one bit guilty.

Everything we do and everything we consume has derived from a human beings sacrifice somewhere and to deny that is simply foolish. To the shoes on your feet to every object we own. Millions of actions small and large are connected to everything we do, so trying to attach guilt to a product is meaningless.

I honestly have no compunction whatsoever about buying it and never will.

Pace2008

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

For those that like to smoke the odd spliff of hash/weed or the odd line of coke or whatever. Have you ever thought that you are part of Irelands drug problem and that your use of these substances funds the gangs the gangs that terrorise neighbourhoods in our cities? I often wonder when I see drugs related threads on this board, and the harsh punishments suggested by posters for the drug gangs, yet some of which have admitted to occasionally using their products.

Is it hypocritical for posters to recommend harsh sentences for drug barons, while it would appear that at least some of them use their drugs on at least a semi regular basis?

Do casual users have blood on their hands?

If we're going to retread tired arguments that have been done to death then I'd have to point out that people who eat bananas or drink coffee are also supporting murder and exploitation on a large scale. Things are how they are and until they change drug users, coffee drinkers and chocolate eaters are are going to continue ingesting whatever they feel like.

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

They're illegal for a reason, they harm society.

They're illegal because the people who make the rules had and have an unfounded moral opposition to them. While I agree that some drugs are harmful it's not their harmful nature that gets them banned - it's because the older generation always get flustered at the thought of kids getting high.

nice1franko

994 wrote: »

Do you eat chocolate? A quarter of the world's cocoa is harvested by slaves.

+1 ... and similar situation with countless other products/commodities: tea, coffee, clothing, rubber, etc

The OP, in singling out drug users for being hypocritical in this respect is, in all probability, a hypocrite himself.

It really boils down to ignorance (willful or otherwise) and/or an individual's ability to absolve themselves due to indirectness or number of steps they are removed from the 'dirty side' in their participation.

Now, someone fetch a ladder so I may dismount my horse.

MIN2511

Never really thought about this... Hmm, i have never bought but if i am in a party and there's one around i sure wouldn't say no.
Now i feel very bad!!

I guess it's back to the legal highs for me..

anonymous_joe

MIN2511 wrote: »

Never really thought about this... Hmm, i have never bought but if i am in a party and there's one around i sure wouldn't say no.
Now i feel very bad!!

I guess it's back to the legal highs for me..

They're made out of powdered puppies.

stovelid

I see.

So using any consumer item that people violently vie which each other to trade or smuggle, or of which the trade/construction/import/sale has a (indirect or direct) negative effect on others is morally wrong?

Quint

Grow your own weed or get it from a mate that grows it. Problem solved:D

Also, if you feel strongly about people being effected negatively by the production of products you use, you would probably be walking around naked, eating food you grew yourself. I'm not saying it's right that sweat shops are used for so many clothes, but my nike are cool, so i'm willing to turn a blind eye

as has been said before, we could really attach this logic to many products.. diamonds etc. at the end of the day, most people don't care. i don't care, not for any particular reason, just because i've bigger things to feel guilty about.. the rapes and the murders mainly.

dearg lady

rockmongrel wrote: »

Well I'm of the opinion the government should have no say in whether I use narcotics, so if I'm funding a gang war, not my problem. Set up a system where I can get it legally or let others do the same.

The war on drugs has been lost, get over it.

+1 well put

My name is URL

Reminds me of an episode of The IT Crowd -

You wouldn't shoot a policeman and then steal his helmet

you wouldn't go to the toilet in the helmet and then return it to the policeman's grieving widow

and then steal it again!

Dragan

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

For those that like to smoke the odd spliff of hash/weed or the odd line of coke or whatever. Have you ever thought that you are part of Irelands drug problem and that your use of these substances funds the gangs the gangs that terrorise neighbourhoods in our cities? I often wonder when I see drugs related threads on this board, and the harsh punishments suggested by posters for the drug gangs, yet some of which have admitted to occasionally using their products.

Is it hypocritical for posters to recommend harsh sentences for drug barons, while it would appear that at least some of them use their drugs on at least a semi regular basis?

Do casual users have blood on their hands?

Yes.

But it washes off real easy mate.:rolleyes:

Blazer

Personally I hope every cokehead in Ireland gets their house/car robbed or the sh1t beaten out of them by a junkie looking for money for their fix.
They deserve it..it's the one thing Michael O'Dowell got right when he said middle class( indeed any class) would want to cop the fcuk on and realise doing coke is helping the gangsters in this country.
Any comparisons with clothes/fcukin chocolate for christ's sake are bullsh1t.
I never heard of coca heads robbing people for their fixes.

Dragan

Sc@recrow wrote: »

Any comparisons with clothes/fcukin chocolate for christ's sake are bullsh1t.

Why?

Any further points to offer or are we to take your flat opinions as gospel truth?

Kirby

Pace2008 wrote: »

They're illegal because the people who make the rules had and have an unfounded moral opposition to them. While I agree that some drugs are harmful it's not their harmful nature that gets them banned - it's because the older generation always get flustered at the thought of kids getting high.

Then why is there a blanket ban and not an age limit? There is an age limit on drink and smoking. Clearly if what you said is true, there would be an age limit for weed? The older generation get flustered at kids getting pissed and thats still legal. Your logic doesn't stand up.

meditraitor

Dope and coke are different animals but the money does contribute to violent crime which is fueled by greedy little scumbags who want your business/money.

Legalising cannibis would not have a big effect on the crime related to illegal drug use, the real money is made from gear and coke which will never be legalised.

I dont smoke dope because I believe it to be harmful but if it was legalised and I seen it for sale in a local farmers market it wouldnt upset me.

Coke= badddddd
Dope=same as alcohol. why not have an option for the grunts who cant handle thier beer.

Pace2008

Kirby wrote: »

Then why is there a blanket ban and not an age limit? There is an age limit on drink and smoking. Clearly if what you said is true, there would be an age limit for weed? The older generation get flustered at kids getting pissed and thats still legal. Your logic doesn't stand up.

Because drinking and smoking have been part of our culture for as long as anyone can remember. People accept it because it's the done thing; they think that the legality of a product is related to its safety. It's things that are new and alien that frighten them.

They deserve it..it's the one thing Michael O'Dowell got right when he said middle class( indeed any class) would want to cop the fcuk on and realise doing coke is helping the gangsters in this country.

I think it's time the government copped on themselves. After countless years of anti-drugs campaigns it's obvious that people aren't going to be told what they can and can't take and are going to continue to be naughty. Since people aren't going to change the pressure should be on the government to introduce new measures to curb the societal problems caused by drugs. The War on Drugs was lost from day one because free will exists.

Any comparisons with clothes/fcukin chocolate for christ's sake are bullsh1t.

Get your head out of the sand - they are all trades waist deep in blood, run by immoral/amoral opportunists. Or do you think that Willie Wonka and his Oompa Loompas make your Dairy Milks?

Dope=same as alcohol. why not have an option for the grunts who cant handle thier beer.

In what way are they same? They're both depressants but that's where the similarities end.

dearg lady

Kirby wrote: »

Then why is there a blanket ban and not an age limit? There is an age limit on drink and smoking. Clearly if what you said is true, there would be an age limit for weed? The older generation get flustered at kids getting pissed and thats still legal. Your logic doesn't stand up.

I'm sorry to repeat myself, I have posted this link on another thread before, but it seems relevant again!

According to this study, drug classifications are all wrong

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6474053.stm#drugs

Kirby

Part of the problem is hypocrisy. Smoking and Alcohol both damage you and are legal. I wouldn't classify Weed as any more dangerous.

But drink and smoke are legal. Whether or not they should be legal isn't relevent to the discussion. That battle is lost. That doesn't mean that similar drugs should be legalised because others of similar ilk are already. Weed is harmful. The pro camp refuse to acknowledge that fact and claim that its harmless which is rubbish. It's a mind altering drug and anybody who thinks it does no harm needs to take a good look at themselves.

Rented Mule

Fight the War on Gangs.

Grow your own.

Pace2008

Rented Mule wrote: »

Fight the War on Gangs.

Grow your own.

Until I get a masters in organic chemistry and somehow secure a steady supply of safrole I'm going to have to keep buying my pills from shady sources.

g5fd6ow0hseima

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Have you ever thought that you are part of Irelands drug problem

I have thought about it.... but I feel that the government and their retarded, backward, conservative policies are to blame. Not me. If cannabis was decriminalised, or a one plant rule was introduced, wouldnt it go along way in the fight?

Considering that 70% of drug seizures in Irelands are cannabis, wouldnt this roughly translate to two thirds of illegal drugs in the country being cannabis. However, the policy on cannabis is for another thread, but ill end by saying as long as the government wont wake up to reality, let the drug dealers run riot.

Rented Mule

Pace2008 wrote: »

Until I get a masters in organic chemistry and somehow secure a steady supply of safrole I'm going to have to keep buying my pills from shady sources.

Well there you go .....free your mind ....and your ass will follow.

Good luck in University !!

Blazer

Dragan wrote: »

Why?

Any further points to offer or are we to take your flat opinions as gospel truth?

hmm...chocolate/clothes aren't illegal the latest I heard
And apart from mild addiction to chocolate they're harmless