Iasra Constitution Statement

I.A.S.R.A.

To the members,
There has been a lot of talk on the internet about our constitution over the last 2 weeks, which we would like to clear up. First of all the constitution we have uploaded onto our website, was created by our previous commitee last year. Since then Iasra and the Iaa have had talks about the changes needed to be made to this constitution. As of yet, these changes have not been made. We do apologise for this delay. We have a consitution written out for the new chamber of commerce, which we cannot use until the amalgamation of the two groups take place. The delay in posting the consitution was due to the fact that we had a legal correspondant checking the document for us, and sadly this delayed our presentation of the constitution.

We are in fact meeting with the Iaa next week to discuss progress. We are hoping to have our first AGM before November, were you will be able to vote on the changes going forward for the change of the consitution. If you have any further questions or suggestions about the constitution, please feel free to e-mail us at info@iasra.net, otherwise we have set up a thread on our forums.

-Mariel O'Keeffe
Vice Chairperson
I.A.S.R.A.

I would appreciate it if a mod can lock this thread once posted

Tigger

to what members?

Fallschirmjager

amalgamation of the two groups take place??

huh?

Puding

amalgamation of the two groups take place

yes clarification is needed on that statement as i for one would be unhappy with it

I.A.S.R.A.

Basically the IAA and Iasra shall be merging airsoft players over from Iasra to the IAA, while Iasra set up as an official Chamber of Commerce for Retailers and sites. Of course this is purely in discussion at the moment, and nothing has been decided upon as of yet.
If you have a look at some of the IAA meeting minutes with Iasra on their website there is few documents to back this up.
We have been in talks with the IAA since Febuary last, and we hope our meeting with them next week can reveal more progress.

http://irishairsoft.ie/?page_id=414

Puding

well aware of the minutes i do believe thought that 'amalgamation of the two groups take place' is a little incorrect, the minutes you refer to outline a frame work for the 2 groups to work together, but not a merger, but that could just be me...

will be interesting to see the next constitution will there be an agm/egm of members to vote this one in?

Hivemind187

Would this be the same constitution one Mr. Stephen Fay felt obliged to distance himself from recently?

If this constitution was already found to be lacking or inadequate why is it not indicated as such when it is available for download?

Dr_Pepper

I.A.S.R.A. wrote: »

To the members,
There has been a lot of talk on the internet about our constitution over the last 2 weeks, which we would like to clear up. First of all the constitution we have uploaded onto our website, was created by our previous commitee last year. The delay in posting the consitution was due to the fact that we had a legal correspondant checking the document for us, and sadly this delayed our presentation of the constitution.

Thank you.
Can you explain this then please?

<SNIP>

Shiva

I'm sure theres more than one person waiting for me to dive in head first and start ripping IASRA up because of this......but I'm not going to. Its getting boring at this stage, and frankly, a little too easy

However, I have a couple of things I'd like to say, and put out there, and I do so with the greatest of respect to the IASRA commitee.

Guys, you seriously need to take a long hard look at what you're doing, why you're doing it, and most importantly....how you're doing it.

Since its inception, IASRA has stumbled from one monumental f**kup and PR disaster to another, and you seriously need to address how you handle your public image, and your daily business. Whilst I remain convinced your original committee and reasons for forming were nothing more than a disgustingly transparent exercise in self-serving power-grabbing, I'm happy to sit back and watch how you perform since the new committee was elected, and judge IASRA solely on that performance. I'm pretty sure you all have the interests of airsoft and airsofters at heart, so I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt on your performance so far.

Unfortunately though, so far its been decidedly unprofessional. Your website is littered with grammatical errors and spelling mistakes which cannot be waved away with references to dyslexia. Whilst I have the utmost sympathy for anyone who suffers with that condition, perhaps everything released on your website should be proof-read by someone independent before publication ? If I was a member of the media, a politician, or even a member of the public looking for information about airsoft in Ireland, I'd come away from that site thinking airsofters were a bunch of ill-educated and ill-organised oafs, and not to be taken seriously.

If you want to become a chamber of commerce representing me and the many other retailers and site owners out there, you really, really need to clean your act up. When your own chairman refers to you as "IARSA" in his statements, it raises serious credibility issues. Wishing that "the future of the sport can be more bright" isn't exactly helpful either.

And also, please get out of this habit of asking for your threads to be locked here and on other forums, just because you dont like answering hard questions - You have put yourself in the public eye, so just accept everything that entails, good and bad. Avoiding hard questions and refusing to comment in public makes it look like you've something to hide. One of the most common criticisms of the IAA I heard in the past was that they were unapproachable and uncommunicative. You seem to have fallen into a much deeper version of that hole.

You also need to look into what exactly your obligations are when you form a recognised body with an elected committee and constitution. You aren't just a bunch of guys and girls who love airsoft anymore - you're a formal body with legal obligations, and subject to some pretty stiff standards you must uphold.

Again, I mean no disrespect, and I intend these to be constructive criticisms, so please, for everyones sake, take these points on board, and help preserve whats turning into a hugely popular sport in Ireland. Because at the moment, you're doing more harm than good. I wont stand idly by, nor will many other airsoft professionals, and watch you fritter away our livelihoods and the massive gains this sport has made in this country because you're too stubborn to listen to what people have to say, and act upon it.

Mrs MaxForce

To whom it may concern,
I Evelyn Cummins have resigned as secretary of IASRA as of yesterday dated 27th of July. Taking up this post, I wanted to help and steer towards a chamber of commerce for airsoft but due to third party influences this was never to be allowed.
It is and always will be a one man committee and that is why I have disassociated from it.
I have the greatest respect for Declan the chairman. He is a brilliant chap but the damage was done before he took over and there is no way he could close this huge gap. I wish him well in the future in whatever he does.
As and from yesterday, G-TAC’s affiliation with IASRA has ceased.
Regards,
Evelyn Cummins.

Fallschirmjager

it seems to me looking at the whole topic as dispassionately as i can that all (or perhaps all-ish) of the suppliers of services to our now large community do have a need. I am not sure that need is fully met in the current setup.

Now i could be completely wrong on this (maybe there is a group) but since the suppliers going forward are our only way of accessing aeg's and i would guess will have considerable issues importing when the new law takes place, maybe its time for a a group that can clearly voice their concerns.
Dont misunderstand me, i am not taking about the IASRA what i am talking was the desire that led so many suppliers to want to join something, anything that would help them. We would, i think, be foolish to ignore this need. I also think the last thing we need is what happened in the UK with the formation of a group that excluded players and at least IMHO, seems to have dealt airsoft in the UK a terrible blow.

We have a great opportunity here to allow the suppliers a place to go that allows them voice concerns and one that is integrated with the players. After the law change we are in a very symbiotic relationship (even more so then now) and we ignore that at all our peril. We are IMHO at yet another cross roads in airsoft (and as it happens a great crossroads to be at, would you have dared imagine this 2 years ago?) and some small changes will work in all our favour. I think the IAA could address some of these issues and we have what was always intended a single powerful voice representing us all, suppliers and consumers to both the media and the government. I for one, would love to see a group that can air concerns from either end of the airsoft spectrum and will allow us all a deeper appreciation of all our problems-- remember a problem a supplier has, will quickly transfer to the shoulders of the players. We all have a love of this sport and we have a chance for a unification that does not appear often. We would , i feel, be foolish to ignore it. This is a chance to mend the us and them and create an us. Dont get me wrong, i am not some idealist, i believe strongly in the profit motive (its why i work), but a cohesive, modern group that speaks for all sections of our industry would be a very powerful force going forward. I am not suggesting some socialist paradise (even spelling that word makes me want to hurl chunks) but we have a great opportunity here...we should take it.

If you feel offended by this, you should not, i tried to keep group names out of this thread as people have a tendency to line up on one side or another-- me included by the way). I think the IAA has done a tremendous job, i think we would not be where we are today without this current lineout and the previous ones, but a small tweek here and there can solve a lot of issues bubbling out there. Like it or not, the IASRA has also done something, they have identified an issue. Now i know the history and i know the politics of why it was formed, lets not go there, but i think that is not the reason why the suppliers joined it. There is something there we should not ignore.

I due to a myriad of reasons, (trust me this is a year i want to forget asap), have been unable to keep up on all the IAA changes and recommendations, so if this is already happening, my apologies to all concerned and feel free to ignore this.

Hivemind187

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

it seems to me looking at the whole topic as dispassionately as i can that all (or perhaps all-ish) of the suppliers of services to our now large community do have a need. I am not sure that need is fully met in the current setup.

Now i could be completely wrong on this (maybe there is a group) but since the suppliers going forward are our only way of accessing aeg's and i would guess will have considerable issues importing when the new law takes place, maybe its time for a a group that can clearly voice their concerns.
Dont misunderstand me, i am not taking about the IASRA what i am talking was the desire that led so many suppliers to want to join something, anything that would help them. We would, i think, be foolish to ignore this need. I also think the last thing we need is what happened in the UK with the formation of a group that excluded players and at least IMHO, seems to have dealt airsoft in the UK a terrible blow.

We have a great opportunity here to allow the suppliers a place to go that allows them voice concerns and one that is integrated with the players. After the law change we are in a very symbiotic relationship (even more so then now) and we ignore that at all our peril. We are IMHO at yet another cross roads in airsoft (and as it happens a great crossroads to be at, would you have dared imagine this 2 years ago?) and some small changes will work in all our favour. I think the IAA could address some of these issues and we have what was always intended a single powerful voice representing us all, suppliers and consumers to both the media and the government. I for one, would love to see a group that can air concerns from either end of the airsoft spectrum and will allow us all a deeper appreciation of all our problems-- remember a problem a supplier has, will quickly transfer to the shoulders of the players. We all have a love of this sport and we have a chance for a unification that does not appear often. We would , i feel, be foolish to ignore it. This is a chance to mend the us and them and create an us. Dont get me wrong, i am not some idealist, i believe strongly in the profit motive (its why i work), but a cohesive, modern group that speaks for all sections of our industry would be a very powerful force going forward. I am not suggesting some socialist paradise (even spelling that word makes me want to hurl chunks) but we have a great opportunity here...we should take it.

If you feel offended by this, you should not, i tried to keep group names out of this thread as people have a tendency to line up on one side or another-- me included by the way). I think the IAA has done a tremendous job, i think we would not be where we are today without this current lineout and the previous ones, but a small tweek here and there can solve a lot of issues bubbling out there. Like it or not, the IASRA has also done something, they have identified an issue. Now i know the history and i know the politics of why it was formed, lets not go there, but i think that is not the reason why the suppliers joined it. There is something there we should not ignore.

I due to a myriad of reasons, (trust me this is a year i want to forget asap), have been unable to keep up on all the IAA changes and recommendations, so if this is already happening, my apologies to all concerned and feel free to ignore this.

As susual Falls very well put.

However, I feel I must disagree. I do not believe that IASRA have highlighted any specific need whatsoever. The IAA is not an association representing only players, rather it is intended to do what is best for the sport which includes catering to the needs of commercial entities (while not capitulating to their desires).

What IASRA has done is created an artificial sense of a need being unfulfilled, this is indicated by no single individual ever being able to point to what this specific need is. It is illusory and entirely based on the paranoia and greed of a single individual.

For example, there is a litany of incidents wherein retailers have had issues with customs (stock held up etc etc) and the IAA has aided them in this. The current legislation being brought in, the regulations for retailers etc is based on the discussions the association has had with the commercial entities of airsoft over the past 2-3 years. Chasing down the DoJ for implementation dates for the licensing system, pushing for fair measures which protect the sport while not stifling business, arguing with politicians on the radio on the behalf of new businesses ... if these things do not qualify as serving the interests of the commercial end of airsoft then frankly I dont know what would.

This would seem to be evidenced by the membership of AirsoftEire, Go Tactical, Eirsoft, Strike Arms, ATS, Cork Airsoft Shop, Hobby Airsoft, SE Airsoft and formerly IAS before they closed - all retailers who have joined the IAA. As opposed to ... who and how many as members of IASRA. MIA and OPS Command? Considering that their owners were involved in the original establishment of the IASRA and had both been political opponents of the IAA it should come as no suprise to seem them there.

I have no doubt that many of the people who got involved with IASRA want to see the best for airsoft but in all honesty, their passion and efforts are misplaced and quite possibly being exploited.

There is a single positive to be taken from the existance of IASRA (or indeed any other pretenders). It highlights just how badly done things could be as an alternative to what we have.

o1s1n

Bod/silverhaze/whoever the **** you are, permabanned. (Seeking siteban)

I'll get this mess cleaned up as soon as I can.

\troll crap removed.

This thread stays open for now.

whydave

Hivemind187 wrote: »

...... and OPS Command? Considering that their owners were involved in the original establishment of the IASRA and had both been political opponents of the IAA it should come as no suprise to seem them there.

Since this is/was me I feel I must respond , First I feel that all retailers need to be united, they have issues that players don't ,I there for sent out a mail to
ALL retailers (before christmas) so we could meet up.due to other issues this was called off . but the key points still remained .I feel that anyone who comes up with an idea should be listened to even if you don't like the idea.I have also always advise people that we the players and the retailers need someone to talk on our behalf and have told them about the IAA and IASRA (choice!!).

Hivemind187 wrote: »

political opponents

sorry not to sure what you mean by this ,I was there when the IAA had it's form AGM and vote on the Constitution ,


David

extremetaz

whydave wrote: »

sorry not to sure what you mean by this ,I was there when the IAA had it's form AGM and vote on the Constitution ,

You voted against the IAA consitution in lue of inclusion of an affiliation with firearms.

You then were involved in the calling of an EGM to vote on this very issue.

The EGM which was called with you as the prime initiator was then abandoned, last minute, at cost to the IAA (venue charges) and hence the airsofting community, and you didn't even have the good grace to show your face.

Incidentally, the motion was defeated by the membership in any case, a point which was considered wise by the IAA liason within DoJ.

Since then you have been associated with several attempts to ursurp the good efforts made by the IAA - not least of which is IASRA.

So I dare say that Hivemind is perfectly entitled to cite you as a political opponent.

whydave

extremetaz wrote: »

You voted against the IAA consitution in lue of inclusion of an affiliation with firearms.

You then were involved in the calling of an EGM to vote on this very issue.

The EGM which was called with you as the prime initiator was then abandoned, last minute, at cost to the IAA (venue charges) and hence the airsofting community, and you didn't even have the good grace to show your face.

Incidentally, the motion was defeated by the membership in any case, a point which was considered wise by the IAA liason within DoJ.

Since then you have been associated with several attempts to ursurp the good efforts made by the IAA - not least of which is IASRA.

So I dare say that Hivemind is perfectly entitled to cite you as a political opponent.

EGM was called for the post of chairman , yes I perposed this to allow the out going chairman to attend , and due to being sick I was them unable to attend . as this fourm is about IASRA , we seem to be off topic , but I would like you to explain

extremetaz wrote: »

Since then you have been associated with several attempts to ursurp the good efforts made by the IAA - not least of which is IASRA

as this is off topic you can call me on the phone or meet me on any number of gaming sites (phone number pm'd)

Fallschirmjager

Hivemind187 wrote: »

As susual Falls very well put.

What IASRA has done is created an artificial sense of a need being unfulfilled, this is indicated by no single individual ever being able to point to what this specific need is. It is illusory and entirely based on the paranoia and greed of a single individual.

Okay maybe i got sucker punched!!!

extremetaz

whydave wrote: »

as this is off topic you can call me on the phone or meet me on any number of gaming sites (phone number pm'd)

I ain't gonna be phoning you lad - if you're that irk'd you can get my number from any IAA committee member, past or present, and take it on your own phone bill.

Dr_Pepper

So have IASRA any response to our numerous questions?

mle1324

I.A.S.R.A. wrote: »

I would appreciate it if a mod can lock this thread once posted

So have IASRA any response to our numerous questions?

I dont think they plan to mate by the looks of it.

Gizmodeon

Ok I've seen two questions so I'll answer them as best as I can.

Would this be the same constitution one Mr. Stephen Fay felt obliged to distance himself from recently?

If this constitution was already found to be lacking or inadequate why is it not indicated as such when it is available for download?-Hivemind

Yes this is the Constitution in which Stephen Fay disagreed with, unfortunately as it says in our statement above, this constitution needs to be worked on, and voted upon at our AGM. This was not said on the posting of the consitution as we simply did not expect this sort of response from the public. And judging on how things go with our meeting with the IAA next week, we might not need it at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I.A.S.R.A.
To the members,
There has been a lot of talk on the internet about our constitution over the last 2 weeks, which we would like to clear up. First of all the constitution we have uploaded onto our website, was created by our previous commitee last year. The delay in posting the consitution was due to the fact that we had a legal correspondant checking the document for us, and sadly this delayed our presentation of the constitution.

Thank you.
Can you explain this then please?

Yes, this consitution was written last year by Derek and Alan the previous commitee members who are members of the Rifle Association. As of the name posted (and then removed) is the father of Alan (obviously done on his laptop)

So far I have only noticed only 2 questions, evertyhing else in this thread is accusations or personal opinion statements, but to sum up the feeling of most of the thread I think that Hive put it as how people are feeling towards IASRA.

I do not believe that IASRA have highlighted any specific need whatsoever.

As long as we have members to represent, there is a need for IASRA, whether we have 1 member, or over 900 as we have now. Denying a need for IASRA, is denying our 900+ members a right to representation that they have chosen. If all our members decided tomorrow that they wanted to join the IAA I would be happy that they are in good hands with a good commitee who can represent them, and happy that they made the choice themselves.
I would be happier if an airsofter chose either organisation rather than have none, this merits more airsofters to be represented in front of the DOJ, the more people being represented, the more they have to listen.
But at the moment they chose us, and we are happy to represent them.

At the moment we are currently just Myself and Declan, we are sad to see Evelyn go, we will miss her, and there is no one who can possibly replace her in terms of commitment and hard work. We wish her the best in everything she does in the airsofting community.
As far as we as a commitee are concerned, we were of the allusion that once we were elected as a commitee, we were to be given a clean slate, much like the new IAA commitee. Sadly this has not happend, and we are still bearing the brunt of our previous Commitees problems. We are doing everything in our power to distance ourselves from this, and we are working extremely hard to represent our members well. We are no longer recieving advice from Derek on commitee level, and have not been for many weeks, and we appreciate his help on starting us off, but he is now just a member as any other. Here is our new mission statement to show what we are aiming for.

As far as the spelling mistakes on the website are concerned, I am hereby issuing an official apology to our members, I take full responsibility as Webmaster for the mistakes. Sadly I am in the middle of moving, and I could have spent a little more time with the spellchecker.

As far as the Constitution is concerned, I cannot make an apology for the things that need to be changed in the consitution, they have no yet been changed due to our AGM being put back due to the Bill and a large number of members absent for the summer. I will however apologise for the lack of a statement with the consitution, as far as the commitee were concerned, we purely did not forsee this kind of reaction from the public, and we assumed members would realise that this is a constitution from last year and is outdated.

As far as boards are concerned, we have no problem as a commitee with boards as our previous commitee did, we are currently waiting for our own news thread to be opened and hope to open more communication lines to our members.

As far as I can see I think I have answered all the questions about IASRA, but if anyone got left out please let me know.
We thank everyone for their comments and concerns, we are listening and taking in all points of view to make our oraganization better.

-Mariel
Vice Chairperson
IASRA

Puding

900+ members

blink blink

so the egm to ratify they new constitution is going to need a large room than last time then

Gizmodeon

we were thinking of holding it in a aircraft hanger :P

Puding

i think the sarcasm has passed you by, 900 at 5e a head not bad income for the organization your public books will make nice healthy reading

Gizmodeon

Well thay are currently at 0 so is not much reading yet :P
We have taken that on board, and we are currently deciding what can be constructive to do with the money, obviously membership cards, advertising, social events, competitions, meeting and website costs and patches etc. Anything left over will go straight back to the members, and everything will be documented accordingly.

Puding

Well currently is 0 so is not much reading yet
We have taken that on board, and we are currently deciding what can be constructive to do with the money, obviously membership cards, advertising, social events, competitions, meeting and website costs and patches etc. Anything left over will go straight back to the members, and everything will be documented accordingly.

so you have no members then by the definition on your web site as in filled in forms and paid there cash, any constitution would state a member as someone who has paid there fees so they can vote

you might need a smaller venue after all...

Mervenut

Puding wrote: »

i think the sarcasm has passed you by, 900 at 5e a head not bad income for the organization your public books will make nice healthy reading

Let me start by saying that I am a newcomer, and not a member of either organisation but have been following this "situation" via boards over the past few months.

I do feel that IASRA's new comittee, given what Mariel has said about pervious committee members no longer being involved, should be given some time to prove their bona fides and let's hold fire until after the meeting with IAA next week. Attacking the new committee for the sins of the past one is unfair and not helping the situation going forward. I for one am prepared to wait and see what happens over the next few weeks.

I'm not attacking anyone, I just feel that we need to take a step back and allow the new committee a chance, for the good of the sport as a whole.

Gizmodeon

Puding wrote: »

so you have no members then by the definition on your web site as in filled in forms and paid there cash, any constitution would state a member as someone who has paid there fees so they can vote

you might need a smaller venue after all...

To be honest, I consider every membership form an official member, and the fee is purely for the membership cards, it doesn't mean they won't recieve help from us, it just means they wont get a membership card. I'd be happy if members only want to pay for the membership card, and nothing else, personally I've paid for the website myself and done any photoshop and website work myself so far. If members don't want to pay all, we'll try fundraise the money for cards and everything else, it is a recession and I'm not expecting anyone to want to part with money, even if it is only 5 euro.

Puding

I do feel that IASRA's new comittee, given what Mariel has said about pervious committee members no longer being involved, should be given some time to prove their bona fides and let's hold fire until after the meeting with IAA next week. Attacking the new committee for the sins of the past one is unfair and not helping the situation going forward. I for one am prepared to wait and see what happens over the next few weeks.

sorry i do not believe i was attacking anyone, i was only interested in the fact a figure of 900 members was mention, I before this point would have found it hard to believe that we had 900 players playing week in week out as regular players let alone in one organization, i thought it was a good reflection of airsoft as a sport,

my comments are all in regard to the statement from the new committee and only on this and nothing else, i think someone is jumping the gun,

Gizmodeon

To be honest, we were amazed ourselves at the amount of airsofters that came out of the woodwork, and we have every membership form to prove every member

Flecktarn

Ok I'm going to sound like a n00b (because I am one) for saying this but why does there need to be two organisations representing Irish airsofters?

I know this post might sound biased as I am a member of the IAA but surely the IAA have done a excellent job already and I don't see the need for any other organisations. They have got us out of airsoft being banned altogether in this country so surely they are doing the right thing and pushing the right buttons?

Could some please explain to me why the IASRA why set up?

Thanks.

Hivemind187

Gizmodeon wrote: »

As long as we have members to represent, there is a need for IASRA, whether we have 1 member, or over 900 as we have now. Denying a need for IASRA, is denying our 900+ members a right to representation that they have chosen. If all our members decided tomorrow that they wanted to join the IAA I would be happy that they are in good hands with a good commitee who can represent them, and happy that they made the choice themselves.
I would be happier if an airsofter chose either organisation rather than have none, this merits more airsofters to be represented in front of the DOJ, the more people being represented, the more they have to listen.
But at the moment they chose us, and we are happy to represent them.

At the moment we are currently just Myself and Declan, we are sad to see Evelyn go, we will miss her, and there is no one who can possibly replace her in terms of commitment and hard work. We wish her the best in everything she does in the airsofting community.
As far as we as a commitee are concerned, we were of the allusion that once we were elected as a commitee, we were to be given a clean slate, much like the new IAA commitee. Sadly this has not happend, and we are still bearing the brunt of our previous Commitees problems. We are doing everything in our power to distance ourselves from this, and we are working extremely hard to represent our members well. We are no longer recieving advice from Derek on commitee level, and have not been for many weeks, and we appreciate his help on starting us off, but he is now just a member as any other. Here is our new mission statement to show what we are aiming for.

As far as the spelling mistakes on the website are concerned, I am hereby issuing an official apology to our members, I take full responsibility as Webmaster for the mistakes. Sadly I am in the middle of moving, and I could have spent a little more time with the spellchecker.

As far as the Constitution is concerned, I cannot make an apology for the things that need to be changed in the consitution, they have no yet been changed due to our AGM being put back due to the Bill and a large number of members absent for the summer. I will however apologise for the lack of a statement with the consitution, as far as the commitee were concerned, we purely did not forsee this kind of reaction from the public, and we assumed members would realise that this is a constitution from last year and is outdated.

As far as boards are concerned, we have no problem as a commitee with boards as our previous commitee did, we are currently waiting for our own news thread to be opened and hope to open more communication lines to our members.

As far as I can see I think I have answered all the questions about IASRA, but if anyone got left out please let me know.
We thank everyone for their comments and concerns, we are listening and taking in all points of view to make our oraganization better.

-Mariel
Vice Chairperson
IASRA

I have many many more question but I'll start with the single, to my mind most important question of them all - one which I have asked again and again without recieving an adequate response.

Precisely what need does IASRA fill that is not covered by the existance of the IAA as it stands and pursues its mandate? I would appreciate a specific response with regard to individual airsofters, commercial retailers and venues within the republic of Ireland and the 6 counties of Northern Ireland.

More questions to follow.

deepimpact

A few quick questions (and I'm asking as an airsofter):
At the beginning of the IAA (and since) at the AGMs there was a huge hooha about the numbers of members needed to deem a decision "democratic."

How do IASRA expect 900+ members to show for an AGM, bearing in mind that there was also complaints about the location of the AGM?

How many does there need to be to have a decision carried? How many to deem the vote void?

Fallschirmjager

Mervenut wrote: »

Let me start by saying that I am a newcomer, and not a member of either organisation but have been following this "situation" via boards over the past few months.

I do feel that IASRA's new comittee, given what Mariel has said about pervious committee members no longer being involved, should be given some time to prove their bona fides and let's hold fire until after the meeting with IAA next week. Attacking the new committee for the sins of the past one is unfair and not helping the situation going forward. I for one am prepared to wait and see what happens over the next few weeks.

I'm not attacking anyone, I just feel that we need to take a step back and allow the new committee a chance, for the good of the sport as a whole.

i guess you mean the same chance the new IAA committee got then? then again, maybe not. Am i the only one who finds it hilarious that loads of the original moans about the IAA appear above...okay maybe its just me then...carry on...

deepimpact

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i guess you mean the same chance the new IAA committee got then? then again, maybe not. Am i the only one who finds it hilarious that loads of the original moans about the IAA appear above...okay maybe its just me then...carry on...

You're not the only one Falls, knowing the way it works now, in 2 years we will have 3 associations.

Hivemind187

MISSION STATEMENT OF
IRISH AIRSOFT SPORTS AND
RETAILERS ASSOCIATION
[I.A.S.R.A.]


We here at I.A.S.R.A. aim to be here to represent you
As an Individual .

As a Siteowner or As a Retailer.

I'm not quoting this because I have any specific issue with the claim, its just a small point regarding grammar and punctuation.

No, I'm not being childish, this is a point that has been brought up before.

It should read

"We here at I.A.S.R.A aim to represent you as an individual or as a commercial interest or business venture."

A small criticism but I feel one you should be made aware of. The addtional capitlisations are not just unnessescery but ugly and difficult to read. The separate paragraphing for the "siteowner/retailer" bit is incorrect as well.

Can the committee explain, precisely, what they offer in terms of representation which is not provided by, it cannot be denied, another more experienced association (IAA).

Our aim is take this new sport of ours to the next level.

Is there a definition of "the next level" available from the IASRA committee? Indeed an analysis of "the current level" which indicates the areas which need to be improved upon?

What direction does the committee wish to take the sport of airsoft and is the committee sure that this is the will of its members? By what methods and mechanisms was this information gathered and from whom?

We want to strive to take Airsoft to the status that it should be at.

Does the committee have a definition of its desired status for airsoft? Can the committee identify areas in airsoft for improvement which are not already being actively pursued by another, more experienced organisation (the IAA)?

Does the committee realise that this comment is actually insulting to the many retailers, venue operators, their staff and the dozens of individuals who work and have worked to get airsoft to he level it is presently at and that to not aknowledge this effort when making such a statement implies dismissal of the efforts these individuals have made?

Can the committee explain where the infrastructure for further development is to come from during an economic recession in a sport (still in its comparative infancy) whose commercial commercial development is begining to out pace the influx of new players, the very life blood of the game?

How does the committee intend to tackle these issues with regard to he "status" and "level" of Irish airsoft (specifically in the Republic of Ireland).

We want you as an individual to be able to have a point of contact that you can turn to and trust.

Can the committee provide reasons why they should be trusted ahead of the alternative organisation who, it cannot be denied, have more experience, more established organisation and can point directly to a number of tangible successes they have achieved on the behalf of airsoft within the Republic of Ireland?

We are working successfully with the relevant government departments and relevant authorities to promote Airsoft awareness and make it easily accessible to one and all .

Can I ask the committee to expand on this point with reference to specific departments and the committees agreed indicators for "success"?

Can the committee provide a list of measures and activites (as well as the appropriate citation/evidence) the IASRA body has been directly involved in which have raised awareness of the pursuit and whom they raised said awareness to?

We want to have a set standard for Site Owners and retailers.

Can the committee indicate what they define as being "set standards" and highlight how these standards differ from those of the IAA?

We want to have proper Marshalling standards.

Can the committee indicate the efforts they have made in this direction?

We want you as an individual to be able to go to any site and play and know that you are in a safe environment and know that it come up to the standard of I.A.S.R.A.

IASRA - having venues in their list of commercial members - should have a definition of its "standards" as alluded to in this point. Can the committee indicate where such a set of standards can be found?

Mervenut

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

i guess you mean the same chance the new IAA committee got then? then again, maybe not. Am i the only one who finds it hilarious that loads of the original moans about the IAA appear above...okay maybe its just me then...carry on...

I don't understand this post, but as I said I'm not involved in either organisation and am unfamiliar with all the history. If i take it to mean that the new IAA committee wasn't treated fairly by some then that's wrong, but it doesn't mean that IASRA should be treated the same. Two wrongs is still wrong! All I'm saying is give both orgs a chance to work the issues out at their meeting next week.

Hivemind187

Flecktarn wrote: »

Could some please explain to me why the IASRA why set up?

Thanks.

Yes, I second this question.

Hivemind187

Mervenut wrote: »

I don't understand this post, but as I said I'm not involved in either organisation and am unfamiliar with all the history. If i take it to mean that the new IAA committee wasn't treated fairly by some then that's wrong, but it doesn't mean that IASRA should be treated the same. Two wrongs is still wrong! All I'm saying is give both orgs a chance to work the issues out at their meeting next week.

Its (in part) a reference to the fact that some of the original instigators of the IASRA were vocal critics of the IAA and many of the things they accused the IAA of doing/failing to do etc are being exhibited by IASRA.

(with apologies to Fallschrimjaeger if I misinterpreted).

Gizmodeon

hey guys,

Could some please explain to me why the IASRA why set up?-flektarn

Hey Flektarn, IASRA was initially set up by airsoft players and retailers whom felt they wanted to form their own representation due to their own personal reasons.

Precisely what need does IASRA fill that is not covered by the existance of the IAA as it stands and pursues its mandate? I would appreciate a specific response with regard to individual airsofters, commercial retailers and venues within the republic of Ireland and the 6 counties of Northern Ireland.-Hivemind

Hive, you don't honestly want me to account every members reasons not to join the IAA?

How do IASRA expect 900+ members to show for an AGM, bearing in mind that there was also complaints about the location of the AGM?-scalant

Can you specify which AGM scalant? It depends if our members are going over to the IAA with the chamber of commerce coming in. I guess the best option would be to hold it in a large venue, and make it a 2 day event.

Flecktarn

Gizmodeon wrote: »

hey guys,
Hey Flektarn, IASRA was initially set up by airsoft players and retailers whom felt they wanted to form their own representation due to their own personal reasons.

Hi Gizmodeon,

I still don't understand why there was a need to TBH.

Example: Could I just not start my own organisation the called AAI or ARSAI and just get people to join. But you see heres the catch, if I make my own organisation with loads of members they expect me to give something back to them.

So what do I get of the IASRA if I join, what can I get off you that I don't get off other airsoft organisations in this country already?

Thanks.

Hivemind187

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Hey Flektarn, IASRA was initially set up by airsoft players and retailers whom felt they wanted to form their own representation due to their own personal reasons.

Unacceptable as an answer. You are the vice-chair of a representative body "personal reasons" is not a valid political answer to the question as phrazed.

I will re-iterate the question.

Why was IASRA set up. To whit: what service or function is/was IASRA to perfrom and/or which needs was it intended to fill which were not already being served.

Otherwise "personal reasons" can only be construed as "we don't like the other people so we are taking our ball and playing elsewhere".

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Hive, you don't honestly want me to account every members reasons not to join the IAA?

A poor attempt at deflection.

I asked for you to explain, precisely, which needs were not being met. You have avoided providing any answer or justification. Are we to assume that their is no valid answer to the question? That IASRA does not actually fulfill any specific need or function that was not being fulfilled before hand?

You'll note that it is not a question about specific individuals but a question of policy, function and catering to the needs of those you claim to represent.

Gizmodeon

So what do I get of the IASRA if I join, what can I get off you that I don't get off other airsoft organisations in this country already?

if you want, to be honest, I don't know if I can answer this question at the moment,
we are in a middle stage where things could change rapidly depending on what happens at the IAA/IASRA meeting next week.

But if things don't change, we are working on making it easier to airsoft up north, we are working with the DOJ in terms of the bill, we are working on ways to get better communication between gardai and airsofters to stop peoples airsofts being seized. We are working on a list of wheelchair accessable sites. We are working with the Phillipino community in it's entirety and the philliopino Consolate. We got 3 politicians to speak up in the Seanaid for airsoft during the bill, and submitted our members suggestions to the DOJ. We have also submitted a list of concerns regarding the
This isn't all of it, I'd have to get my hands on the last 2 meetings minutes off evelyn to give you everything were working on.

But in direct reply to your question, there is things that the IAA has done, and there is things IASRA have done. Both are similar, but different none the less.

Gizmodeon

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Unacceptable as an answer. You are the vice-chair of a representative body "personal reasons" is not a valid political answer to the question as phrazed.

I will re-iterate the question.

Why was IASRA set up. To whit: what service or function is/was IASRA to perfrom and/or which needs was it intended to fill which were not already being served.

Otherwise "personal reasons" can only be construed as "we don't like the other people so we are taking our ball and playing elsewhere".



A poor attempt at deflection.

I asked for you to explain, precisely, which needs were not being met. You have avoided providing any answer or justification. Are we to assume that their is no valid answer to the question? That IASRA does not actually fulfill any specific need or function that was not being fulfilled before hand?

You'll note that it is not a question about specific individuals but a question of policy, function and catering to the needs of those you claim to represent.

I asked for you to explain, precisely, which needs were not being met.

Hive, I honestly cannot name every one. I never asked people handing membership forms over why they didn't join the IAA, maybe you should be asking them. Most don't want anything different than what the IAA serves up, for whatever reason they chose IASRA.

Why have you got your back up so much Hive? These members could be IAA members for all we know next week

Flecktarn

Gizmodeon wrote: »

if you want, to be honest, I don't know if I can answer this question at the moment,
we are in a middle stage where things could change rapidly depending on what happens at the IAA/IASRA meeting next week.

But if things don't change, we are working on making it easier to airsoft up north, we are working with the DOJ in terms of the bill, we are working on ways to get better communication between gardai and airsofters to stop peoples airsofts being seized. We are working on a list of wheelchair accessable sites. We are working with the Phillipino community in it's entirety and the philliopino Consolate. We got 3 politicians to speak up in the Seanaid for airsoft during the bill, and submitted our members suggestions to the DOJ. We have also submitted a list of concerns regarding the
This isn't all of it, I'd have to get my hands on the last 2 meetings minutes off evelyn to give you everything were working on.

But in direct reply to your question, there is things that the IAA has done, and there is things IASRA have done. Both are similar, but different none the less.

Ok thanks Gizmodeon. I'm sure you can elaboate more in the near future after meetings and AGM's.

Thanks again.

Mervenut

Guys,
It seems to me all a lot of heat is being generated about stuff that may well be changing very soon.

It looks, from my reading of the situation, and having no inside information, like one likely outcome from the meeting next week is the IAA may well become the org for individual members, (those who are currently members of IASRA coming over to IAA) and IASRA may well become the "trade representative" organisation for the retailers and possibly site owners, althought site owners may want to remain with IAA (subject to sufficent support from the "traders and and IASRA gaining the trust of those traders who currently lack trust in IASRA).

So we could end up with 2 organisations, both well run and representing their respective constituents, (IAA the individuals and possibly sites and IASRA the trade) that would be a good outcome for all, if the current problems within IASRA can be resolved by the new committee.

I'm looking forward to see if all concerned are big enough to put the past behind them and build together for the future of airsoft in Ireland, i'm prepared to give them that chance.

Hivemind187

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Hive, I honestly cannot name every one. I never asked people handing membership forms over why they didn't join the IAA, maybe you should be asking them. Most don't want anything different than what the IAA serves up, for whatever reason they chose IASRA.

I'm not asking you why players, retailers etc didnt join the IAA. I'm asking you what IASRA does that the IAA does not.

Please state what you do which is not being done/has been done by the IAA? Specifically, where your policies are different, why they are different and to what end.

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Why have you got your back up so much Hive? These members could be IAA members for all we know next week

I'm not asking you about your members. I'm asking you about your policies and your associations merits.

My back isnt up, I'm asking questions. Am I upsetting you with what I am asking?

deepimpact

Gizmodeon wrote: »

Can you specify which AGM scalant? It depends if our members are going over to the IAA with the chamber of commerce coming in. I guess the best option would be to hold it in a large venue, and make it a 2 day event.

OK, you seem to be dodging questions so I'll keep it as simple as I can.

Where will this AGM (the IASRA one) be held, as one of the main gripes of the IAA's AGMs were that it was in Dublin?

More importantly, how many does there need to be to have a motion carried and how few votes to deem any motion void?

Puding

More importantly, how many does there need to be to have a decision carried and how few votes to deem the decision void?

that not a hard one to answer, it will be in the constitution that was voted in my the members at an agm/egm...........

Hivemind187

With regard to this number (and I have asked a similar question ealier) how were these individuals and businesses signed up to the association and by what means?

Can the IASRA me point to an application form for review and can they confirm that they have received an application form for each of the 900 claimed members?

deepimpact

Puding wrote: »

that not a hard one to answer, it will be in the constitution that was voted in my the members at an agm/egm...........

it's kinda what I'm getting at Pud, how many votes deemed the constitution passed (has the AGM been held already?) and what percentage of the membership attended?

These criticisms were put to the IAA at the time, and in the interest of fairness, they should be answered by the IASRA committee if there are any.