Help, Please! New Gun & Poor FPS Rating Problems

ZeroSignal

Hi,

I recently bought a JG SPETZ Krinkiov AK from a retailer who advertised the fps at 300 or about 0.9J. I skirmished with it and had it chrono'ed before I began and the rating was around 0.59J or 193fps with 0.2g pellets and a fully charged battery.

Is it usual to have the gun at such a low power despite what the shop says or is there a problem and I should return it to the shop? What is the problem being caused by and how would I go about fixing this problem? I can feel that it doesn't really have enough power and I really want to start playing woodland games and it just about scrapes by in CQB.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

rossism

return it to the shop.
if its shooting that low theres a problem with it.

Puding

if its brought from Ireland then your still covered by warranty i would take it back before doing anything yourself and voiding any cover you have

ZeroSignal

Okay, thanks for the quick replies, gentlemen. I've tried to get in contact with them by email for the past week but they're not answering their "services and upgrades" address so I'm just after trying the "general inquiries" address and hopefully they'll get back to me. If they don't get back to me by tomorrow I'll have to call them.

Dr_Pepper

Have you checked your hopup setting? Do the BB's fly upwards when you shoot it?

It may be just on all the way.

Tigger

ZeroSignal wrote: »

Okay, thanks for the quick replies, gentlemen. I've tried to get in contact with them by email for the past week but they're not answering their "services and upgrades" address so I'm just after trying the "general inquiries" address and hopefully they'll get back to me. If they don't get back to me by tomorrow I'll have to call them.

lol



here is a review on mia's site

JG SPETZ KRINKOV
Jack - Dublin (Wednesday, July 22, 2009)

Firstly, I also had the same problem as the previous reviewer in that the Fire Selector Switch came loose very easily. Fixing this problem is very easily done by popping off the cover of the selector hub and tightening the screw underneath. I wouldn't consider this an issue as it seems to fall under general maintenance. What IS a problem, though is the stock develops a bit of a wobble very easily although it's a very minor issue in the grand scheme of things. It's still a nuisance.

It fires accurately but unfortunately mine was only clocked at 0.6J which is a little frustrating for me as I now have to purchase a new spring.

What I do like about this gun is the overall build quality and the feel of balance from it as it sits well in the hands. It is also very cheap considering the amount of metal in the gun. It would probably make a very good candidate for a tweaker or upgrade gun as it is compatible with most Tokyo Marui parts (apparently). I personally plan on doing several upgrades including an RIS frame on the top with a red dot sight.

All in all a solid airsoft gun and I would recommend it to a beginner

ZeroSignal

Dr_Pepper wrote: »

Have you checked your hopup setting? Do the BB's fly upwards when you shoot it?

It may be just on all the way.

I adjusted the hop-up and I've seen it do what you've described and it wasn't doing that during the game directly after chronographing it.

Thanks all the same.

Tigger wrote: »

lol

do they ever get good press

I assume you know who I'm talking about then. I didn't want to mention them by name.

I found them helpful on the phone and in person but the fact that it's almost like they're avoiding my emails as soon as I have a problem does not fill me with joy...

Tigger wrote: »

lol



here is a review on mia's site

That was me!

EDIT: Also, I noticed they deleted a bad review that someone else left about that gun to do with the fire selector... Hmmm...

Tigger

hmm indeedy

Stercus Accidit

If they don't sort you out, try one of the IAA affiliated shops, they will fix the aeg to a high standard and it won't cost much.

Its better to start as you intend to go on, and building a relationship with a trust worthy retailer is the first thing to do. The long term benefits will make the initial repair fee well worth it.

Thats not to say the original crowd shouldn't fix it up for you, it was after all a product, not performing as advertised, but you may end up pulling your hair out.

ZeroSignal

Quick question: would I be right in dividing 328 by 100 and multiplying it by 59 to get the FPS of 0.59J?

Or is this calculator more accurate in your opinions? http://www.cimmerians.org/FPS_Converter.html?action=fps

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

If they don't sort you out, try one of the IAA affiliated shops, they will fix the aeg to a high standard and it won't cost much.

Its better to start as you intend to go on, and building a relationship with a trust worthy retailer is the first thing to do. The long term benefits will make the initial repair fee well worth it.

Thats not to say the original crowd shouldn't fix it up for you, it was after all a product, not performing as advertised, but you may end up pulling your hair out.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I've decided that if they don't get back to me by Saturday of their own volition I'm just going to go to Airsoft Tactical Supplies in Ballymount to get them to fix the gun for me as they are quite close by. Are they more trustworthy?

Stercus Accidit

I'm not familiar with them myself, the IAA website has a list of affiliates, if they are on there, they are fine. They may be fine and not on the list, but I can't say for certain without prior experience, try reading the experiences with retailers thread, do a search for ATS on the forum also.

ZeroSignal

Well, they got back to me. This is the e-mail I received from them. Does it make sense to anyone or am I just getting blown off here?

"

hi

the jg krinkov is down graded at the factory before we get them i hav tested a few of them and they are all around the .7 to max .8 joule

the only thing i could suggest is to let the spring tension up and the power should come up they come with non pretensioned springs hich are soft untill they get some use and harden then the power comes up .

failing that the only other thing is to fit a new spring to upgrade it ."

It still doesn't explain why it says 300fps on their website when 0.8J won't get you that high...

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I'm not familiar with them myself, the IAA website has a list of affiliates, if they are on there, they are fine. They may be fine and not on the list, but I can't say for certain without prior experience, try reading the experiences with retailers thread, do a search for ATS on the forum also.

Yeah, I found them from the IAA website so they must be okay.

EDIT: I called ATS just now and they say they charge €50 just for opening the gear-box.

Puding

not really going to comment on that reply, i would advice that you might want to contact someone like eirsoft

Stercus Accidit

That sounds like BS to me, un-pretensioned spring?

You may want to inspect the gun yourself, dont open up the gearbox though, but you can remove it easily enough, check if the air nozzle was drilled through, it could be how it was downgraded. Bar that, get a new spring.

horgan_p

ZeroSignal wrote: »

Well, they got back to me. This is the e-mail I received from them. Does it make sense to anyone or am I just getting blown off here?

"

hi

the jg krinkov is down graded at the factory before we get them i hav tested a few of them and they are all around the .7 to max .8 joule

the only thing i could suggest is to let the spring tension up and the power should come up they come with non pretensioned springs hich are soft untill they get some use and harden then the power comes up .

failing that the only other thing is to fit a new spring to upgrade it ."

It still doesn't explain why it says 300fps on their website when 0.8J won't get you that high...



Yeah, I found them from the IAA website so they must be okay.

EDIT: I called ATS just now and they say they charge €50 just for opening the gear-box.

Fella if you believe that , i've got a lightly used bridge i could sell you


Or prehaps the all new "magic beans 4000" - I'll do you a good deal

ZeroSignal

Puding wrote: »

not really going to comment on that reply, i would advice that you might want to contact someone like eirsoft

Why? What would they be able to offer me? I can't claim warranty on a product I didn't buy from them, so unless they don't charge €50 to open up the gearbox and fix it then I'm not sure what good it will do...

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

That sounds like BS to me, un-pretensioned spring?

You may want to inspect the gun yourself, dont open up the gearbox though, but you can remove it easily enough, check if the air nozzle was drilled through, it could be how it was downgraded. Bar that, get a new spring.

I'd rather not open up the AEG myself as I don't want to accidentally damage/lose any component parts. I'd rather pay an expert to do an expert job. Do you have to open up the gearbox to install a new spring?

horgan_p wrote: »

Fella if you believe that , i've got a lightly used bridge i could sell you


Or prehaps the all new "magic beans 4000" - I'll do you a good deal

Easy tiger. I'm new to this sport and I know very little about airsoft devices and how they function. Do you have anything to add that can help me?

I'm obviously in a bit of trouble here as I don't expect that MIA will go quietly if you know what I mean...

Dr_Pepper

Bring it back and demand they fix it as it is broken.
Its advertised as 300fps which it isnt doing.
Thats faulty.

If they give you jip demand a refund for a clearly faulty product.

If you bought a car that was supposed to be able to do 120 kmph and you were stuck on the m50 at 60 kmph would you accept that?

horgan_p

Ok my first piece of advice , dont open the AEG .

My second piece of advice would be to return to the retailer with the AEG - physically if you can , not sent by post or courier.Print out the item description from the website of the aeg you ordered.

Get the retailer to chrono it in front of you - i believe they have a super duper chrono , so it'll be 110% accurate.

From there , i dont think there will be any dispute at all.

Puding

i hav tested a few of them and they are all around the .7 to max .8 joule

tbh all aegs should be tested before being sent out not just a few, i would imagine if this had been tested the low fps would have been picked up at source

as the web site advertises 'Energy: .86 Joule' know i can accept a small difference x/- but your out put could indicate a poor downgrade or airseal issue

the comments you have got in your reply on the spring is just jargon and unclear, a spring left compressed can result in a loss of fps not an increase ( this is why its best to fire a few shots in semi before you store your aeg to insure the spring is uncompressed) , so the reply 'let the spring tension up' in my eyes would be counter productive and pointless

all i can suggest is to return the item as it is not as advertised?

Stercus Accidit

A spring can be compressed for months, and once used a few times will return to its original strength, literally months.

Spring metal has a plasticity and elasticity modulus, the plasticity modulus has to be exceeded before the spring will permanently deform, which under normal use it never will, it will remain elastic.

Breaking a spring in will reduce the strength of the spring, as some of the more rigid bonds at a molecular level are broken, leaving only the elastic bonds.


AKA, pre tensioned this that or the other is pure waffle.

Shiva

ZeroSignal wrote: »

Why? What would they be able to offer me? I can't claim warranty on a product I didn't buy from them, so unless they don't charge €50 to open up the gearbox and fix it then I'm not sure what good it will do...

If you don't have any joy with them, bring the gun to us and we'll throw in a spring, or partly seal the hole that was made to downgrade it, whichever is necessary. If it needs a spring replacement, we'll just charge you for the spring - €15. If the leak needs partly closing, we'll do it for free.

Unlike my polite colleague in Cork, I have absolutely no problem in commenting on their email to you
That "untensioned spring" rigmarole is absolute bull****. Its right up there with the Doppler Effect causing dodgy chronograph readings, and fairies at the end of your garden.

Having said all that, you are 100% in your rights in demanding they solve the problem, either by replacing/repairing the gun, or refunding you, so if it was me, I'd pursue that angle first, if only out of pure stubbornness

NakedDex

ZeroSignal wrote: »

Well, they got back to me. This is the e-mail I received from them. Does it make sense to anyone or am I just getting blown off here?

"

hi

the jg krinkov is down graded at the factory before we get them i hav tested a few of them and they are all around the .7 to max .8 joule

the only thing i could suggest is to let the spring tension up and the power should come up they come with non pretensioned springs hich are soft untill they get some use and harden then the power comes up .

failing that the only other thing is to fit a new spring to upgrade it ."

Just out of morbid curiosity, is that a direct copy/paste of their email to you or did you retype it?

ZeroSignal

Shiva wrote: »

If you don't have any joy with them, bring the gun to us and we'll throw in a spring, or partly seal the hole that was made to downgrade it, whichever is necessary. If it needs a spring replacement, we'll just charge you for the spring - €15. If the leak needs partly closing, we'll do it for free.

Unlike my polite colleague in Cork, I have absolutely no problem in commenting on their email to you
That "untensioned spring" rigmarole is absolute bull****. Its right up there with the Doppler Effect causing dodgy chronograph readings, and fairies at the end of your garden.

Having said all that, you are 100% in your rights in demanding they solve the problem, either by replacing/repairing the gun, or refunding you, so if it was me, I'd pursue that angle first, if only out of pure stubbornness

You know what... I think there is no point shouting at MIA staff. It's too much stress and time consuming to drive all the way up to Blanchardstown. I'm done with MIA and their alienating attitude.

I think I shall take you up on your offer, good sir! Should all go to plan you can consider me a customer in the future! Can I drop it down to you this Saturday?

NakedDex wrote: »

Just out of morbid curiosity, is that a direct copy/paste of their email to you or did you retype it?

That's what I received! The only difference was I edited the chap's name out at the end...

NakedDex

Apart from the ridiculous reason they gave, which was perfectly (and eloquently) debunked by Stercus, there's a serious lack of professionalism shown in the grammar and spelling used in that email. There isn't a single capital letter in the whole thing to begin with.
I genuinely find that mind blowing. It might not be something that's going to directly affect whether you get service from them, but I find it very, very unprofessional of them for not even taking the time to word and script the reply correctly.

ZeroSignal

NakedDex wrote: »

Apart from the ridiculous reason they gave, which was perfectly (and eloquently) debunked by Stercus, there's a serious lack of professionalism shown in the grammar and spelling used in that email. There isn't a single capital letter in the whole thing to begin with.
I genuinely find that mind blowing. It might not be something that's going to directly affect whether you get service from them, but I find it very, very unprofessional of them for not even taking the time to word and script the reply correctly.

I also thought that, but I didn't really think that much of it at the time as it unfortunately seems to be the standard fare nowadays.

Rob2593

Just to clarify, this is MIA were talking about?

hitman_

Rob2593 wrote: »

Just to clarify, this is MIA were talking about?

Natch. Any other retailer and the thread would have been locked before now :D:D

ZeroSignal

Rob2593 wrote: »

Just to clarify, this is MIA were talking about?

The very same...

hitman_ wrote: »

Natch. Any other retailer and the thread would have been locked before now :D:D

Care to explain?

hitman_

ZeroSignal wrote: »

The very same...





Care to explain?

First, I have no connection with MIA. I buy from whoever has stock and gives the best price etc.
The attacks on MIA in this thread seem to me to be at variance with boards.ie charter change statements here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055609715

Specifically:
"We wont allow any form of complaining or inflammatory remarks about ANY retailer as you should take it up in person with the organisation not on boards.ie."

Fair play, that's all.
The guy has a business to run and people to pay.
Just bring the gun back and I'm sure they will sort you out.
I have has nothing but good experience with both MIA and Eirsoft.

Puding

First, I have no connection with MIA. I buy from whoever has stock and gives the best price etc.
The attacks on MIA in this thread seem to me to be at variance with boards.ie charter change statements here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055609715

Specifically:
"We wont allow any form of complaining or inflammatory remarks about ANY retailer as you should take it up in person with the organisation not on boards.ie."

Fair play, that's all.
The guy has a business to run and people to pay.
Just bring the gun back and I'm sure they will sort you out.
I have has nothing but good experience with both MIA and Eirsoft.

maybe best to just report the thread then, i tried to stay away from the mia angle and just address the miss information this new airsoft has received and inform them on the right for either a repair or a replacement

ZeroSignal

hitman_ wrote: »

First, I have no connection with MIA. I buy from whoever has stock and gives the best price etc.
The attacks on MIA in this thread seem to me to be at variance with boards.ie charter change statements here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055609715

Specifically:
"We wont allow any form of complaining or inflammatory remarks about ANY retailer as you should take it up in person with the organisation not on boards.ie."

Fair play, that's all.
The guy has a business to run and people to pay.
Just bring the gun back and I'm sure they will sort you out.
I have has nothing but good experience with both MIA and Eirsoft.

No inflammatory remarks were made and I can assure you I am not one for hyperbole.

This thread is about getting my Airsoft gun fixed. I bought a gun, asked for help from you and the retailer. Retailer put up resistance to carrying out their obligations and I posted it in the thread because I believe it is relevant to me eventually fixing the problem. Hopefully with Shiva's help I will have it fixed and this saga can end.

Puding wrote: »

maybe best to just report the thread then, i tried to stay away from the mia angle and just address the miss information this new airsoft has received and inform them on the right for either a repair or a replacement

That is the main issue for me. I was led to believe that the Airsoft device I was buying was firing at a certain velocity and found that this was not so.

I would be finished with this thread if they accepted all liability as they are supposed to but instead I got more misinformation.

hitman_

No offense intended to anyone. Best of luck and I hope you get sorted out.

Masada

My god,
this is the first I've seen of this thread. If thats exactly what they have told you is the reasoning behind the low power then they are most certainly blowing smoke up your hole. From a technical point of view, that has to be the most impossible and insulting excuse i've seen yet,

50 quid to open a gearbox is a little excessive too, the average is usually in the 25-30 depending on the gun and difficulty of the job.
I'd ring them up if i was you and explain the situation, dont be fobbed off with technical jargon about spring tension or whatever. There is no way your gun is performing as its supposed to and a spring will not find power magically.
If ya dont get anywhere with that then take tony up on his offer.

ZeroSignal

Masada wrote: »

My god,
this is the first I've seen of this thread. If thats exactly what they have told you is the reasoning behind the low power then they are most certainly blowing smoke up your hole. From a technical point of view, that has to be the most impossible and insulting excuse i've seen yet,

50 quid to open a gearbox is a little excessive too, the average is usually in the 25-30 depending on the gun and difficulty of the job.
I'd ring them up if i was you and explain the situation, dont be fobbed off with technical jargon about spring tension or whatever. There is no way your gun is performing as its supposed to and a spring will not find power magically.
If ya dont get anywhere with that then take tony up on his offer.

Yeah, that response didn't really sit well with me.

So how much would I normally be looking at for installing a replacement spring?

Masada

On average a gun overhaul would be about 25-30 i would imagine. the Beta is one of the easier ones so 25 would be a good guess. then you'd be talking the price of a spring which would be 10-15 quid id say.
I would wonder if your gun actually needs a spring though, its quite unusual to have a spring as low a power as you have described. in most cases of low power like you describe, the cause is often a bad leak even a hole drilled in the cylinder.

Id take tony up on the offer if ya dont get anywhere with them though,
its unlikely to cost you anything and even at the most it would be 15 quid.

Shiva

Masada wrote: »

Id take tony up on the offer if ya dont get anywhere with them though,
its unlikely to cost you anything and even at the most it would be 15 quid.

And if you bring cookies, it'd probably be less.

Nice cookies mind....none of that cheap own brand tat

Tigger

ZeroSignal wrote: »

Easy tiger. I'm new to this sport and I know very little about airsoft devices and how they function. Do you have anything to add that can help me?

he's only trying to answer yer question with humor rather than saying some thing nasty about whoever wrote that mail

I'm obviously in a bit of trouble here as I don't expect that MIA will go quietly if you know what I mean...

this is the airsoft community yer not in trouble yer in the right place

Tigger

hitman_ wrote: »

The attacks on MIA in this thread

he said the spring would get stiffer with use!!!
,i knew it was mia straight away practically anyone else would have sorted it

no attacks

ZeroSignal

So, dropped down to Eirsoft to hand over the gun for Tony and the lads to work on. I got loads of information and great service. Can't wait to see what they can do with it.

My only complaint was that it took me ages of driving around to find them!

Thanks again, guys!

Masada

Hiya man

As it turned out, your cylinder had be reversed so that the vent was right up at the front. this meant you had only about 5-10mm of compression since the air could get out the vent until the piston passed it. It was rebuilt and chrono'd at 312fps this morning.

your spring was the run of the mil type in most clone guns and as expected, there was no such pretensioning or compression diggery wotsits going on.

Puding

As it turned out, your cylinder had be reversed so that the vent was right up at the front.

have not seen that one before:eek:, poor quality control or downgrade

tmason

mine had a 3 wholes, two in a cilinder and one in a nozzle, i just covered one of them and now I have .82-.9J which is OK, apparently that's how they often downgrade AEG as it's rather permanent and to avoid hassle with springs

Puding

mine had a 3 wholes, two in a cilinder and one in a nozzle, i just covered one of them and now I have .82-.9J which is OK, apparently that's how they often downgrade AEG as it's rather permanent and to avoid hassle with springs

how is it permanent ? you covered some of them over and the fps goes back up, you can do it with tape or blue tac if you really want to,

drilling holes in the cylinder or novel is just lazy and unprofessional, also it turns your shot to shot consistency to hell

tmason

by permanent, i meant it's unchangeable - so you need to replace your cylinder, covering it with a tape is just temporary fix and lasts until the tape last. and i obviously agree it's lazy and unprofessional approach beside all those tiny metal chips land inside a cylinder damaging piston after awhile...I will visit a retailer on Monday

Frank the Manc

tmason wrote: »

by permanent, i meant it's unchangeable - so you need to replace your cylinder, covering it with a tape is just temporary fix and lasts until the tape last. and i obviously agree it's lazy and unprofessional approach beside all those tiny metal chips land inside a cylinder damaging piston after awhile...I will visit a retailer on Monday

You can flip the cylinder if its not ported, fill the hole with quicksteel or chem metal, you can get a patch thing that adheres to most surfaces that can all be done to undo the "downgrade" so it is in no way permanent.

Besides all that, having a gearbox pull a 400fps spring when it only needs to pull a 300 is going to cut the life of the insides of your gun short unecessarily.

tmason

well true, you can do all this but you shouldn't have to do it in a first place...

ZeroSignal

Masada wrote: »

Hiya man

As it turned out, your cylinder had be reversed so that the vent was right up at the front. this meant you had only about 5-10mm of compression since the air could get out the vent until the piston passed it. It was rebuilt and chrono'd at 312fps this morning.

your spring was the run of the mil type in most clone guns and as expected, there was no such pretensioning or compression diggery wotsits going on.

Thanks very much guys! I really appreciate all the help you've given me.

The gun is much quieter now, too. It has a nice snap and the gearbox is very quiet. I can't wait to get a silencer on this thing!

Thanks again, guys!

Shiva

tmason wrote: »

by permanent, i meant it's unchangeable - so you need to replace your cylinder, covering it with a tape is just temporary fix and lasts until the tape last. and i obviously agree it's lazy and unprofessional approach beside all those tiny metal chips land inside a cylinder damaging piston after awhile...I will visit a retailer on Monday

But the problem is that most guns nowadays, with the obvious exception of TM gear, are firing at about 350fps out of the box at least, and that includes clones and high ends. If retailers were to pay for spring changes in every gun they import, you'd see the cost of guns skyrocketing. Its all well and good getting an Asian supplier to downgrade a few guns on small orders, but when you're taking in 300 or 400 guns per order, its just not feasible to downgrade springs. Even if the retailer could afford to swallow the extra costs, the time it would take would rule it out - its hard enough getting stock as it is sometimes. Bleeding out air is the only cost effective way. If its done properly its quick, effective and relatively inconsequential.

I tried making the point with one of my suppliers than since I import so much, perhaps its in their interest to run off batches with MS90 springs to keep my custom, and I was politely told that no matter how big we in Ireland think our airsoft industry is, we barely register as a blip on the radar of airsoft as a whole. A humbling conversation, so it was

Captain Chaos

Dont want to go too OT, but aren't there alot of countries and sites in others countries that have the 1J limit like us, for AEGs at least. I was looking at the WGC site when the VFC SCAR SPR came out and it was rated at 420fps, about a month later they have 1J versions in as well. So there must be some value of running batches off rated at 1J.

Shiva

Yeah, thats true, especially of high ends. But the main markets are the US and Asia, and they dont have a 1 joule limit. Even outside those two areas, 1j limits are in the minority.

ricka

Shiva wrote: »

But the problem is that most guns nowadays, with the obvious exception of TM gear, are firing at about 350fps out of the box at least, and that includes clones and high ends. If retailers were to pay for spring changes in every gun they import, you'd see the cost of guns skyrocketing. Its all well and good getting an Asian supplier to downgrade a few guns on small orders, but when you're taking in 300 or 400 guns per order, its just not feasible to downgrade springs. Even if the retailer could afford to swallow the extra costs, the time it would take would rule it out - its hard enough getting stock as it is sometimes. Bleeding out air is the only cost effective way. If its done properly its quick, effective and relatively inconsequential.

I tried making the point with one of my suppliers than since I import so much, perhaps its in their interest to run off batches with MS90 springs to keep my custom, and I was politely told that no matter how big we in Ireland think our airsoft industry is, we barely register as a blip on the radar of airsoft as a whole. A humbling conversation, so it was

People who know me would say:Well you would agree wouldn't you..
and i do very strongly!