What makes the USA such an attractive destination for people from the world over?

Ibrahimovic91

I remember reading an article in the NY times about Irish illegal immigrants and by the sound of it you'd think Ireland was a third world country, why do these people(irish in this instance) prefer to live illegal in that country when they could live comfortable here?

50,000 illegal irish seems really high relative to our population as well.

kaimera

Land of opportunity.

I'd imagine right now the US is living off that mentality wrt immigrants.

Affable

Dunno. I can't stand America tbh.

Dades

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

why do these people(irish in this instance) prefer to live illegal in that country when they could live comfortable here?

Perhaps some people don't choose to live where they would be most 'comfortable'.

The US has an incredible diversity of people, landscapes, climates and cultures. You need to take your pick of any one of them to begin to compare living in the US to living in Ireland.

Ibrahimovic91

But i'm not talking about just Irish, I'm talking about people everywhere. Put it this way, if Europe and USA had an agreement of open boarders between the two, you can be certain there would be more going in the way of USA than coming here(using the united states of europe principle)

Brazil also has incredible diversity of people, landscapes, climates and cultures but we don't see flocks of people going to Brazil anymore.

rs

Historically, the US had work. Ireland didn't. So it made sense for people to migrate there. Lots of other countries were in the same boat.

As previously stated. The US is big, with lots of places to choose from with lots of individual communities.

Many of the illegals moved back in the 80's when our economy was terrible.

Also, lower taxes and the general idea of the American Dream were and are big attractions.

Personally, I'd prefer to stay in Ireland but if I had to move to the US for work, I would. Who knows what the future holds.

Ibrahimovic91

rs wrote: »

Historically, the US had work. Ireland didn't. So it made sense for people to migrate there. Lots of other countries were in the same boat.

As previously stated. The US is big, with lots of places to choose from with lots of individual communities.

Many of the illegals moved back in the 80's when our economy was terrible.

Also, lower taxes and the general idea of the American Dream were and are big attractions.

Personally, I'd prefer to stay in Ireland but if I had to move to the US for work, I would. Who knows what the future holds.

In general would immigrants from a third world country were given the choice would they opt for EU or USA.

Dades

The US, on average, has a reasonable standard of living, and is English-speaking.

It also has, due it's relative youth in terms of a "country", established communities for every ethnic/national grouping, which is an incentive for someone leaving their own country.

jumpguy

I find something oddly attractive about the US. Whenever the economy picks up over there and when I'm old enough I'd gladly pack up and give it a shot over there (depending on circumstances of course). It's a buzzing country, famous the world over, historically seen as rich and independent. Hope it stays that way or Bruce Springsteens' songs will all be lies.

Salvelinus

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

I remember reading an article in the NY times about Irish illegal immigrants and by the sound of it you'd think Ireland was a third world country, why do these people(irish in this instance) prefer to live illegal in that country when they could live comfortable here?

50,000 illegal irish seems really high relative to our population as well.

Really?

Ibrahimovic91

much more comfortable in europe than in usa. ffs look at the dole here.

Hookey

Dades wrote: »

The US, on average, has a reasonable standard of living, and is English-speaking.

It also has, due it's relative youth in terms of a "country", established communities for every ethnic/national grouping, which is an incentive for someone leaving their own country.

Not so much if you're illegal; minimum wage stuff and tips. Also, there are Irish communities everywhere, and not just in the English-speaking world.

I can get the idea of spending a year or two in the US for the experience, or longer if you can have a real career, but I know people who've been there illegally for years and years and to be honest I just don't get it; these days the EU offers as good a standard of living (or better) than the US if you're on the low-end of the pay spectrum.

Ibrahimovic91

I think its also to do with how the media portrays the USA. Kids are bombarded with American tv shows depicting school life as little more than a social gathering, all throughout Europe even, this image sticks in the minds of kids from Galway to Athens you'll get kids watching iCarly or any of that crap and its easy to have an idealistic version. The USA isn't what its like in the movies.

I can understand an Irish person yearn to move to California, yes Spanish is widely spoken but English is the business language, add that to the great weather would make it more attractive than lets say Spain or Italy but but places like Boston? I don't get it personally.

Salvelinus

Maybe you should try asking the htousands who made it their home over the last 50 years. From people I've talked to they like it because Ireland was a basket case and hard work was rewarded without the begrudgery. As for the people living illegally they are on thin ice.

Affable

Salvelinus wrote: »

Maybe you should try asking the htousands who made it their home over the last 50 years. From people I've talked to they like it because Ireland was a basket case and hard work was rewarded without the begrudgery. As for the people living illegally they are on thin ice.

what is all this about begrdugery in Ireland? Is it really that noticeable?

Ibrahimovic91

Salvelinus wrote: »

Maybe you should try asking the htousands who made it their home over the last 50 years. From people I've talked to they like it because Ireland was a basket case and hard work was rewarded without the begrudgery. As for the people living illegally they are on thin ice.

You seem a bit offended by the question, are you from the USA?

Ajos

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

much more comfortable in europe than in usa. ffs look at the dole here.

Well, that's the point - the people who would rather live in the USA are exactly the people who aren't content living off the government. If you plan to be long tern unemployed Ireland is certainly the better choice.

Yes, I know that these days a lot of people are in that position who are extremely unhappy about it. Perhaps a better way of putting it would be - if you value the safety net more than opportunity, Ireland is a better place for you. That's a totally valid choice.

Salvelinus wrote: »

Maybe you should try asking the htousands who made it their home over the last 50 years. From people I've talked to they like it because Ireland was a basket case and hard work was rewarded without the begrudgery. As for the people living illegally they are on thin ice.

I'm not American, but I have lived here for a few years now and this pretty accurately represents my opinion. I also agree that living here illegally is a very bad idea.

And I don't know about Salvelinus, but I'm not offended in the least!

Salvelinus

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

You seem a bit offended by the question, are you from the USA?

I'm not offended, I moved here last year. Not for economic reasons, got married. I just think the last decade in Ireland alot of people got a very high opinion of Ireland. This generation hasn't seen the mass emigration like before, look at the number of people that went to Australia because they wanted to not because they had to like before. I think Ireland needs to do alot of soul searching and ask serious questions because the way things are looking it sure as hell aint pretty, that may be why I came across abrasive. I got an impression that you were surprised that people would want to go to America (illegally is ridiculous I admit).
There's also the "stupid americans" thing (not you) when people laugh because Americans don't know something about Ireland, why should they?
I remember my wife tellimg me about being in an Irish bar in New York and she met an Irish fella who told her she shouldn't be in it because it was an Irish bar. Imagine an immigrant in Ireland said that to an irish person, or an American to an irish person in the US.

Ibrahimovic91

In all fairness you're using a small western european landmass and comparing it to USA, I'm comparing Europe as a whole to USA, I honestly feel if you were to give prospective immigrants the choice between USA and the European Union(all 27 states) they would opt for the USA, and I want to know why this is.

USA is not all rosey either and wonderful either, California is a basket case economically atm, in probably a worse position than Ireland. I mean I'm not that sure what soul searching Ireland has to do, I think America might need to do a little more if I'm honest.

And that was one incident I'm sure the same could have happened anywhere.

Salvelinus

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

In all fairness you're using a small western european landmass and comparing it to USA, I'm comparing Europe as a whole to USA, I honestly feel if you were to give prospective immigrants the choice between USA and the European Union(all 27 states) they would opt for the USA, and I want to know why this is.

USA is not all rosey either and wonderful either, California is a basket case economically atm, in probably a worse position than Ireland. I mean I'm not that sure what soul searching Ireland has to do, I think America might need to do a little more if I'm honest.

And that was one incident I'm sure the same could have happened anywhere.

Well, language would be a barrier for people going to the EU and Australia (where I prefer) is that bit too far away. Plus when it became a preferred destination and people got established other people would go to where thay had friends and family etc
This will change now with the restrictions on illegals.
I spent a summer in Boston about 10 years ago and speaking to my boss and his friends there was big money to be made for trades men so that would be a massive attraction.
Of course all is not rosy in the US, the middle class is really getting squeezed and will be alot more, a couple would want to be taking in above six figures to be comfortable, had the Irish economy went onwards and upwards the same would apply to Ireland.
The soul searching (wrong term probably) has to do with how people are elected, the top three people running the country inherited their seats, you can't run a country like that, then there's the gombeenism and nepotism. In my opinon in Ireland things aren't taken seriously and not planned ahead enough.
Of course that was only one incident, how many one off incidents are Americans laughed at?

Dades

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

In all fairness you're using a small western european landmass and comparing it to USA, I'm comparing Europe as a whole to USA, I honestly feel if you were to give prospective immigrants the choice between USA and the European Union(all 27 states) they would opt for the USA, and I want to know why this is.

Have you worked or lived in either/both?

I still think there's huge oversimplification here. America is a country. Europe is not.

Ibrahimovic91

Yes I live in Europe. but if you mean another country I was born and lived in Brussels for a few years.

I also lived in USA for a year with my parents.

Dades

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

I also lived in USA for a year with my parents.

Didn't like it much I take it!

The USA is huge, diverse, English speaking and home of everything you've ever seen on TV. Different countries in Europe offer different cultural experiences each, have their own languages, but simply don't have the same number of potential different livestyles the US can offer. (Even it they're mostly pipe-dreams).

Dades

Dades wrote: »

I still think there's huge oversimplification here. America is a country. Europe is not.

Each state in the US has a different personality/culture. There's very little comparison between Kansas, and Hawaii. Some states are more similar to others, whereas others are completely different. They're part of the same country, but that's as far as it really goes.

If you want to consider a country, think of China. Larger than the USA but each province still bears a close resemblance to other provinces within the country. The US is more a federation of small countries under a single government.

The US has just formed a different way of administrating many different places... there's nothing to suggest that Europe mightn't go a similar way a hundred years from now.

Ibrahimovic91

Yes like Ireland and Britian share similarities, Sweden, Norway and Denmark have similarities, France and many boardering countries share similarities etc. etc.

Of course Ireland is like the Hawaii of Europe without the volcanos and weather and fat guys wearing hawaian shirts lmao

Salvelinus

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

Yes like Ireland and Britian share similarities, Sweden, Norway and Denmark have similarities, France and many boardering countries share similarities etc. etc.

Of course Ireland is like the Hawaii of Europe without the volcanos and weather and fat guys wearing hawaian shirts lmao

So you haven't been to Coppers?

ynotdu

well the states(with all its faults,like anywere) just comes across as an exciting place:)
may,be it is the media coverage but most of Europe, Canada etc comes across as *boring*
I agree with the poster that people who try to break free of situations do not suffer the begrudgary many in Ireland do,but instead get a *slap on the back for their efforts!

having seen some American pay slips i dont agree that tax is low(for instance waiters get taxed on their tips!)

Great country for those who are go-ahead and healthy,also for people who others consider lazy,or for people who know they have the type of personality that needs a kick up the hole,as the ethos of survival of the fittest seems to really help them get themselves together.

in the overall scheme of things i think most people would agree that the world be a much poorer and boring place without the U.S.A!

Ibrahimovic91

thats the word....USA has that 'cool' factor, the reason for this is because of americanisation, if we had tv shows about the trials and tribulations of icelandic suburbs, and carton caper featuring the disfunctional 'freidreksons' was on every night at 7 while bruce gudjohnsen had to save reykjavic from impending disaster in every film then i think we would think iceland as this cool place where you must be.

the usa is seen as the centre of the universe where you MUST be. least thats my opinion.

i talk to a girl on myspace who i used to know when i lived in usa, shes orignally from peurto rico and lives in new york and i'm always like 'new york must be deadly' and she's like nah not really, its kinda boring tbh.

ynotdu

well Iceland does have the COLD factor!:P:D

Ibrahimovic91

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

Yes like Ireland and Britian share similarities, Sweden, Norway and Denmark have similarities, France and many boardering countries share similarities etc. etc.

Of course Ireland is like the Hawaii of Europe without the volcanos and weather and fat guys wearing hawaian shirts lmao

Share similarities sure, but there are major differences in our cultures as well. Look at the differences between Spanish, and Norwegian culture. Then perhaps compare Ireland with Italy. European countries may be similar but there are glaring differences to as well. Just as states within the USA can be completely different from each other.

Imagine if all of Eastern Europe became part of Europe as a country. Would you say that the lifestyle/culture of Latvia is the same as Ireland?

The point is that the USA consists of states which don't conform to the idea of provinces or counties in a country the way that most countries do... Can you really say that they do?

Ajos

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

thats the word....USA has that 'cool' factor, the reason for this is because of americanisation, if we had tv shows about the trials and tribulations of icelandic suburbs, and carton caper featuring the disfunctional 'freidreksons' was on every night at 7 while bruce gudjohnsen had to save reykjavic from impending disaster in every film then i think we would think iceland as this cool place where you must be.

the usa is seen as the centre of the universe where you MUST be. least thats my opinion.

i talk to a girl on myspace who i used to know when i lived in usa, shes orignally from peurto rico and lives in new york and i'm always like 'new york must be deadly' and she's like nah not really, its kinda boring tbh.

You say America seems cool because of "Americanisation", but isn't there a possibility that you're putting the cart before the horse? Perhaps "Americanisation" is so prevalent because America is more attractive, rather than vice versa? If it was purely a question of marketing, could so many people really be so easily fooled?

And you'd have to be really trying to be bored in New York. Does she never leave her apartment?

Ibrahimovic91

Nah. She's 17 she's from puerto rico so for her she'd prefer to live there as the climate is crap in new york for her.

Maby its a case of the grass always been greener, americans wish they were in europe and europeans begrudginly wish they were in USA.

Ibrahimovic91

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

Nah. She's 17 she's from puerto rico so for her she'd prefer to live there as the climate is crap in new york for her.

Maby its a case of the grass always been greener, americans wish they were in europe and europeans begrudginly wish they were in USA.

I have zero interest in the US... Never really been all that interested in it. Asia is where all my interests have been since I was 8 years old. Not that uncommon either. There's a lot of people that don't share this fascination with the US and its culture.

MrPirate

Because New York is the greatest place ever.

Don't go South, that's still experimental grounds.

/thread.

ynotdu

Ibrahimovic91 wrote: »

thats the word....USA has that 'cool' factor, the reason for this is because of americanisation, if we had tv shows about the trials and tribulations of icelandic suburbs, and carton caper featuring the disfunctional 'freidreksons' was on every night at 7 while bruce gudjohnsen had to save reykjavic from impending disaster in every film then i think we would think iceland as this cool place where you must be.

the usa is seen as the centre of the universe where you MUST be. least thats my opinion.

i talk to a girl on myspace who i used to know when i lived in usa, shes orignally from peurto rico and lives in new york and i'm always like 'new york must be deadly' and she's like nah not really, its kinda boring tbh.

I think most people know what You mean about the Americanisation of Ireland.
Example=ffs when did biscuits become cookies in Ireland think Nickleodeon is main culprit!
I have not changed my opinion though that the USA is exciting overall,wheras many other Countries seem boring.
I did forget in my previous post to mention Asia as exciting too but in a diffrient way!
It is i think the *home* of spiritulism and fantastic buildings and history.
A very difficult place to stay after your spending money is used up though,as there is such little chance to find work.
cheers

dvpower

America is a pretty good place. Plenty of opportunity. A reasonably good political system.

But to answer the OPs question; why do people want to go there? They have great PR - America looks good on TV

JaymzN

ynotdu wrote: »

Example=ffs when did biscuits become cookies in Ireland think Nickleodeon is main culprit!

I know, it's gayness! Bring back TCC!!!!!

Affable

Deleted User wrote: »

I have zero interest in the US... Never really been all that interested in it. Asia is where all my interests have been since I was 8 years old. Not that uncommon either. There's a lot of people that don't share this fascination with the US and its culture.

I can add that. I think it's rather sad to see Europeans rejecting their own rich culture to fawn over rubbish.

getz

Affable wrote: »

I can add that. I think it's rather sad to see Europeans rejecting their own rich culture to fawn over rubbish.

i have always liked the states and americans[but being a brit i would say that] the one thing i do notice is that most americans when asked will say i am a italian/scottish/ irish /or welsh yet the english/american, will just say i am a american,and leave the passed behind ,

irish_bob

getz wrote: »

i have always liked the states and americans[but being a brit i would say that] the one thing i do notice is that most americans when asked will say i am a italian/scottish/ irish /or welsh yet the english/american, will just say i am a american,and leave the passed behind ,

thats right , english americans are not even counted when a list is compiled of the number of immigrant groups in america , irish americans , italian americans , german , jewish etc , thats because english americans were the founding fathers , the same goes for the spanish when it comes to argentinians or mexicans or chileans , i was in argentina a few years ago and was told that italians made up the largest immigrant group in the country , this is only because the spanish are not counted , them being the founding fathers like the britts in america

getz

irish_bob wrote: »

thats right , english americans are not even counted when a list is compiled of the number of immigrant groups in america , irish americans , italian americans , german , jewish etc , thats because english americans were the founding fathers , the same goes for the spanish when it comes to argentinians or mexicans or chileans , i was in argentina a few years ago and was told that italians made up the largest immigrant group in the country , this is only because the spanish are not counted , them being the founding fathers like the britts in america

argentina--spanish speaking,italians who want to be like the british, this was a argentine authors quote.i have been lucky,for many years i sailed to the US on a number of merchant ships,and i also have distant cousins living there .outside the irish i think they are the nicest people you can meet

irishgrover

Personally, I think that historically the main draw is that America provides genuine opportunity. I spent most of my 20's living and working in the states (legally). For me it really was the only place I ever experienced where there really is a belief that if you work hard you can success at whatever you want.

Obviously this is the always the case but generally speaking hard work pays off much more than in other places.

I've spent the last 8 years back in Ireland, and there is just no comparison insofar as imho Ireland, from a business perspective, is backward, inward looking, insular, and far too dependent on who you know as opposed to what you know. It's like comparing chalk with cheese faeces.

Having said that I find Ireland a much better place to leave with regards to overall quality of life / a place to bring up a family etc.

America is far from perfect, it has numerous issues, however it really does give you the ability to improve your lot in life, if you are willing to work hard.

Salvelinus

Affable wrote: »

I can add that. I think it's rather sad to see Europeans rejecting their own rich culture to fawn over rubbish.

With the way the Irsh economy is going, wha's left of the culture won't pay the bills.

irishgrover

irishgrover wrote: »

I've spent the last 8 years back in Ireland, and there is just no comparison insofar as imho Ireland, from a business perspective, is backward, inward looking, insular, and far too dependent on who you know as opposed to what you know. It's like comparing chalk with cheese faeces.

Honestly, I'd say its the same with most other developed countries. I found Australia to be a joy for working in Business compared with Ireland.

philologos

I think the US has a lot going for it because it isn't as restrictive on who is "American" or not. The people who live there who can get citizenship are American and that's it. Whereas the Irish public, or public in Europe where the population has by and large been homogenous until the last few centuries have been much more restrictive on who can identify themselves as a particular nationality.

The cultural melting pot experience of the USA has been it's greatest possession in attracting immigrants to look for new life there.

chocgirl

Yeh still think a lot of people view America as the land of opportunity presented on the telly. America is associated with progress too, advances in technology and medicine for instance.

Personally the attraction I'd see is the chance to escape the small town mentality that plagues Ireland. You can be completely anonymous in the USA, disappear if you want.

chocgirl

chocgirl wrote: »

Personally the attraction I'd see is the chance to escape the small town mentality that plagues Ireland. You can be completely anonymous in the USA, disappear if you want.

Honestly, you can get that from plenty of places, with the added benefit of not having the crime associated with American cities.

I'm not trying to knock the US. I haven't been there, so I know nothing as to the way life is actually like. But I, like most people, have heard the statistics. Personally, there isn't much appeal in going to the US when you can get pretty much everything it has to offer in other places. I've liked in France, Germany, the UK, Australia, and China. Plenty of areas to lose yourself there, and without the danger associated with the US.

Oh, and I'm originally from a small town (although I suppose 20k for Ireland is kinda reasonably sized). I Loved living in big cites while abroad. Xi'an, Shanghai and Beijing were amazing. Brisbane, & Sydney were cool also in their own way. And London still stands out as an amazing city even though I'd never want to live there again.

chocgirl

Deleted User wrote: »

Honestly, you can get that from plenty of places, with the added benefit of not having the crime associated with American cities.

I'm not trying to knock the US. I haven't been there, so I know nothing as to the way life is actually like. But I, like most people, have heard the statistics. Personally, there isn't much appeal in going to the US when you can get pretty much everything it has to offer in other places. I've liked in France, Germany, the UK, Australia, and China. Plenty of areas to lose yourself there, and without the danger associated with the US.

Oh, and I'm originally from a small town (although I suppose 20k for Ireland is kinda reasonably sized). I Loved living in big cites while abroad. Xi'an, Shanghai and Beijing were amazing. Brisbane, & Sydney were cool also in their own way. And London still stands out as an amazing city even though I'd never want to live there again.

True but people like what they know and thanks to the old telly people feel they know America and rightly or wrongly feel they will be safe there.

Ajos

chocgirl wrote: »

True but people like what they know and thanks to the old telly people feel they know America and rightly or wrongly feel they will be safe there.

I've lived here for about six years now and honestly I feel a lot safer in New York at 2am than I do in Dublin - fewer junkies on the streets etc.

I lived in Harlem for a year an a half frequently arriving home in the early hours a little the worse for wear. No problems.

When I first got here, before I got used to the longer opening hours, I would regularly pass out fall asleep on the train headed home at 4am and wake up in the wilds of Brooklyn with a banging hangover well past my stop. Nothing bad ever happened to me.

I lived in Bushwick for a few months - not a nice area. When the L train wasn't running at night on the weekends I used to take the J and walk for half an hour through the projects to get home - very dodgy. Nothing bad ever happened to me.

I'm aware that anecdote != data, but New York at least isn't the hive of scum and villainy that you two seem to think it is. It's the safest big city in the US and like I say, given a choice between O'Connell Street and Brooklyn when the pubs let out, I know where I'd rather be!

Ajos

Ajos wrote: »

I've lived here for about six years now and honestly I feel a lot safer in New York at 2am than I do in Dublin - fewer junkies on the streets etc.

I lived in Harlem for a year an a half frequently arriving home in the early hours a little the worse for wear. No problems.

When I first got here, before I got used to the longer opening hours, I would regularly pass out fall asleep on the train headed home at 4am and wake up in the wilds of Brooklyn with a banging hangover well past my stop. Nothing bad ever happened to me.

I lived in Bushwick for a few months - not a nice area. When the L train wasn't running at night on the weekends I used to take the J and walk for half an hour through the projects to get home - very dodgy. Nothing bad ever happened to me.

I'm aware that anecdote != data, but New York at least isn't the hive of scum and villainy that you two seem to think it is. It's the safest big city in the US and like I say, given a choice between O'Connell Street and Brooklyn when the pubs let out, I know where I'd rather be!

Just read that back. Damn, I can be a right idiot!

SeekUp

Ajos wrote: »

I lived in Bushwick for a few months - not a nice area. When the L train wasn't running at night on the weekends I used to take the J and walk for half an hour through the projects to get home - very dodgy. Nothing bad ever happened to me.

Oooooh, Bushwick. You've got to be a hard bastard, eh?