Civil Marriage Protest! 9th August!

Daisy D

I will be there....will you? Everyone is being asked to bring 10 people, friends, family, etc...There were about 1000 people at the last assembly so for this march they're thinking 10,000 people. Civil Partnerships (CP) doesn't give nearly enough rights to lgb people as they should be! Who's going to the march??

LGBT NOISE are asking you, your friends, your family and your co-workers to MARCH FOR MARRIAGE in Dublin on Sunday 9th August 2009 @ 1.30pm.
The march will gather at Dublin's City Hall, Dame Street, and will end with a rally at the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform on St Stephen's Green.

MARRIAGE EQUALITY

LGBT NOISE

kabuk1

My girlfriend and I are going. She's been rallying the troops.

Iwasfrozen

What do you hope to achieve ?

Daisy D

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

What do you hope to achieve ?

Civil Marriage is already allowed for hetrosexual couples. By Irish law same sex couples who want to marry should be allowed, but Minister Dermot Ahern said no. Even though equality and justice as well as law reform are his brief. Civil Marriage has nothing to do with religion (I just want to mention that before someone mentions it) because it is civil it is only about the law. We want to be able to have the same rights as other married couples...CP does not give the same rights as Civil Marriage.

Have a read off this (taken from www.gcn.ie):

Amnesty International will not support the proposed civil partnership bill in Ireland- claiming it enshrines discrimination.
Tonight in Belfast, Colm O'Gorman, Amnesty International Ireland executive director, is set to speak out against the Irish parliament's civil partnership bill.
He described the proposed legislation in a statement as "a second-class form of marriage for what the government clearly feels is a second-class group of people."

O'Gorman said that Ireland was enshrining discrimination in its law while, at the same time, other countries around the world were moving on.
"This is not about the right to marry; it is about the right not to be discriminated against because of who you love," he said. "Failure to provide full marriage equality means that same-sex couples will not have full protection under the law."
Describing the proposal as "cowardly", the AI director also pointed to scare stories about "gay bogeymen" stealing children and a recent newspaper columnist who argued that women were more likely to have abortions than give a child up for adoption out of fear the baby could end up with a gay couple.
"This is the kind of thinking that sees gay people as something 'other', something to be afraid of and defended against, as a community that has no place in normal society," O'Gorman continued.
Previously, Minister Dermot Ahern ruled out gay marriage, claiming it would be in conflict with Ireland's constitution.

Daisy D

kabuk1 wrote: »

My girlfriend and I are going. She's been rallying the troops.

Delighted to hear this.

I have already rounded up some work colleagues and my family members extended included are very supportive of it and will be there. Once I sat down and talked logically to them about CIVIL marriage they were delighted to come...let's face it, as humans no one group deserves to be first class citizens while the other groups are still left behind.

The_Minister

Daisy D wrote: »

Fixed you youtube.

If you wanna post a video you only need the video's code, not the whole link.

Iwasfrozen

Daisy D wrote: »

Civil Marriage is already allowed for hetrosexual couples. By Irish law same sex couples who want to marry should be allowed, but Minister Dermot Ahern said no. Even though equality and justice as well as law reform are his brief. Civil Marriage has nothing to do with religion (I just want to mention that before someone mentions it) because it is civil it is only about the law. We want to be able to have the same rights as other married couples...CP does not give the same rights as Civil Marriage.

Have a read off this (taken from www.gcn.ie):

That may be all well and good. But Amnesty International does not set our laws, our Constitution does.
Here is the extract:

Article 41 P3,1* wrote:

3. 1° The State pledges itself to guard with special care the institution of Marriage, on which the Family is founded, and to protect it against attack.

If you want more legal info I started a thread on the subject here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055623512

If you think this march is going to force the Government to override the constitution you are really overestimating the power of marches !!

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That may be all well and good. But Amnesty International does not set our laws, our Constitution does.
Here is the extract:


If you want more legal info I started a thread on the subject here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055623512

If you think this march is going to force the Government to override the constitution you are really overestimating the power of marches !!

Once upon a time divorce would have been considered unconstitutional based pretty much on the same reason you say same sex marriage is unconstitutional. Divorce is legal here now right? The government can make changes to the constitution if they so wish provided a majority of voters agree with the changes of course.

Good luck with the protest btw.

Daisy D

ak27 wrote: »

Once upon a time divorce would have been considered unconstitutional based pretty much on the same reason you say same sex marriage is unconstitutional. Divorce is legal here now right? The government can make changes to the constitution if they so wish provided a majority of voters agree with the changes of course.

Good luck with the protest btw.

Thank you AK27. The divorce thing is something that we are looking at as it was also as you said above unconstitutional!

IwasFrozen, we don't want the Government to look out the window and say,"crap lads :eek: the gays are here, quickly, we need a constitutional referendum!"

We simply want them to know that by passing this CP bill, you are not only leaving the entire community of LGB people out of the rights they deserve, they are also telling their families, we like your son/cousin/mother/brother/sister and love taking their taxes (which are higher for ALL LGB people than married couples) but we don't value them as highly as hetrosexuals!:mad:

We also need to keep drilling home the fact that the majority of surveys done by Landsdowne are all in favour in majority of civil marriage, equal rights, etc.:D

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

Once upon a time divorce would have been considered unconstitutional based pretty much on the same reason you say same sex marriage is unconstitutional. Divorce is legal here now right? The government can make changes to the constitution if they so wish provided a majority of voters agree with the changes of course.

Good luck with the protest btw.

Ahem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Daisy D wrote:

We simply want them to know that by passing this CP bill, you are not only leaving the entire community of LGB people out of the rights they deserve, they are also telling their families, we like your son/cousin/mother/brother/sister and love taking their taxes (which are higher for ALL LGB people than married couples) but we don't value them as highly as hetrosexuals!

We also need to keep drilling home the fact that the majority of surveys done by Landsdowne are all in favour in majority of civil marriage, equal rights, etc.

So you want Civil Marriage but you don't want to push a referendum that would legalise it.
If the majority of people are pro-Civil marriage then the referendum would be passed and you would get you wish.
Why don't you want a referendum ?

mobius42

What annoys me most is that they are already holding a referendum for Lisbon 2. They could easily ask people to vote on gay marriage on the same day for little extra effort.

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Ahem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland

Re-read the first line of that link again.

kabuk1

Daisy D wrote: »

Delighted to hear this.

I have already rounded up some work colleagues and my family members extended included are very supportive of it and will be there. Once I sat down and talked logically to them about CIVIL marriage they were delighted to come...let's face it, as humans no one group deserves to be first class citizens while the other groups are still left behind.

We are getting some family to come as well. It was easy enough as my girlfriend is Dutch; her parents are coming for the weekend.

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

Re-read the first line of that link again.

As in ammended by popular vote ? :rolleyes:

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

As in ammended by popular vote ? :rolleyes:

You missed the point of what I originally posted completely.

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

You missed the point of what I originally posted completely.

No I didn't, you said that Divorce was illegal before being ratified by popular vote.
Civil marriage is illegal and can only be retified by popular vote.
What's your point ?

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No I didn't, you said that Divorce was illegal before being ratified by popular vote.
Civil marriage is illegal and can only be retified by popular vote.
What's your point ?

First off, let me clarify something for you. Civil marriage is legal in this country between heterosexual couples, marriage between same sex couples (religious or civil) illegal as things stand.

And yes you have misread me. My first point was that divorce was illegal here at one point for more or less the same reasons you're saying same sex marriage is illegal here now.

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

First off, let me clarify something for you. Civil marriage is legal in this country between heterosexual couples, marriage between same sex couples (religious or civil) illegal as things stand.

Yes marriage between same sex couples is legal here, whats you point ?

ak27 wrote: »

And yes you have misread me. My first point was that divorce was illegal here at one point for more or less the same reasons you're saying same sex marriage is illegal here now.

And divorce was legalised via referendum,
Just as same sex marraige would require a referendum.

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Civil marriage is illegal and can only be retified by popular vote.

Originally Posted by Iwasfrozen

Originally Posted by ak27
First off, let me clarify something for you. Civil marriage is legal in this country between heterosexual couples, marriage between same sex couples (religious or civil) illegal as things stand.

Yes marriage between same sex couples is legal here, whats you point ?

You're confusing yourself.

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

You're confusing yourself.

typo.

ak27

Iwasfrozen, re-read you're last couple of posts on this topic and you'll realise you've made the typo not me.:rolleyes:

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

Iwasfrozen, re-read you're last couple of posts on this topic and you'll realise you've made the typo not me.:rolleyes:

I meant that I wrote the typo.
Anyway regardless, my origional question still stands.

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I meant that I wrote the typo.
Anyway regardless, my origional question still stands.

Okay no worries, thought you were talking about me there. You implied civil marriages were illegal which isn't true. Heterosexual couples can go to their local registry to get married if they so wish and not have the religious ceremony.

hot2def

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I meant that I wrote the typo.
Anyway regardless, my origional question still stands.

my question is why should my rights hang on the permission of the popular vote? if that were the way it worked, would black people or women have gotten the vote in various countries?


plus the irish constitution (which is stupid, btw) also says I belongs in the kitchen. nuts to that, and its moron authors....

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

Okay no worries, thought you were talking about me there. You implied civil marriages were illegal which isn't true. Heterosexual couples can go to their local registry to get married if they so wish and not have the religious ceremony.

When did ever say Hetrosexual couples couldn't be partnered ?

The_Minister

mobius42 wrote: »

What annoys me most is that they are already holding a referendum for Lisbon 2. They could easily ask people to vote on gay marriage on the same day for little extra effort.

Unfortunately one of the threats used by the No side last time was that the Lisbon Treaty would bring in gay marriage.

Having the two votes at the same time would lead to people to conflate and confuse the two. The Lisbon Treaty is too complex for another debate to occur alongside it, and holding another referendum on the same day would detract from the time that could be spent on the treaty.

mobius42

The_Minister wrote: »

Unfortunately one of the threats used by the No side last time was that the Lisbon Treaty would bring in gay marriage.

Having the two votes at the same time would lead to people to conflate and confuse the two. The Lisbon Treaty is too complex for another debate to occur alongside it, and holding another referendum on the same day would detract from the time that could be spent on the treaty.

Considering the crap the No side brought up the last time, that's a fair point.

ak27

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

When did ever say Hetrosexual couples couldn't be partnered ?

Well you did say this earlier about civil marriage which is why I brought that up:

Originally Posted by Iwasfrozen
Civil marriage is illegal and can only be retified by popular vote.

Iwasfrozen

ak27 wrote: »

Well you did say this earlier about civil marriage which is why I brought that up:

I suppose it's a case of RAI rather than RAW.

Daisy D

Ok, after just rereading all the quotes etc...I know where I am, LOL.

Right, I do want a referendum if needs be. BUT, I know the minister will not hold one as of yet, and this is what's pissing me off. Today it was announced that Albania will be passing gay marriage....ALBANIA!! I mean one of the only two muslim countries in the eurozone and surrounded by countries of the Soviet and they go from having NO RIGHTS.....to almost the opposite for gay people in no time! I think it is disgraceful, and I can see now why Ireland ranks one of the lowest countries in the Western World when it comes to human and equal rights!!

Iwasfrozen

Daisy D wrote: »

Ok, after just rereading all the quotes etc...I know where I am, LOL.

Right, I do want a referendum if needs be. BUT, I know the minister will not hold one as of yet, and this is what's pissing me off. Today it was announced that Albania will be passing gay marriage....ALBANIA!! I mean one of the only two muslim countries in the eurozone and surrounded by countries of the Soviet and they go from having NO RIGHTS.....to almost the opposite for gay people in no time! I think it is disgraceful, and I can see now why Ireland ranks one of the lowest countries in the Western World when it comes to human and equal rights!!

To be fair marriage is not a right.
The Brian and Co. proberbly don't want to hold a referendum as theres a chance it may be rejected. We're just going to have to wait and see how this Civil Partnership thing works out before complementing holding a referendum for Gay marraige.
I know this is going a little bit to slow for many homosexual people but we have just come out of 60 years of Catholic neo-socialist propaganda.
The Public will eventually warm to the idea, but it will take time.