Tony de Vit - overrated?

tman

On the back of the departed artists thread, I'm kind of curious to find out people's opinions on this one...

Personally, I'm thankful to him for making some of my favourite tunes of all time, but it is common knowledge that Simon Parkes engineered his music from day one*. If the stories are to believed, Tony had very little creative input in them, but I'm not too sure if I buy into that.
*apart from the dawn, which had Paul Janes at the controls

Sadly I never got a chance to see him live, so my only exposure to his mixing was through the Trade and (utterly classic) Global Underground CDs

His remixes of "Cygnus X - turn it around", move any mountain, show me love and Age of Love all still get regular plays whenever I'm having a mix, and I can't really say that about many other productions from that period (apart from some of the early Tinribs like "Elvis")

So in my opinion - not at all overrated...
You?

Scubadevils

Never heard him live either but certainly loved some of the mixes over the years - I still have a huge soft spot for the following two mixes which I listened to a lot back in the mid 90s and were also spun at several parties...

The 2nd disc on 'A Retrospective Of House '91 - '95 Volume 2'

http://www.discogs.com/Various-A-Retrospective-Of-House-91-95-Volume-2/release/113884

And also the second disc on the first Trade mix, a serious belter of a mix...

http://www.discogs.com/Various-Trade-Volume-One/release/113948

In both cases, cracking tune selection, set progression and full of energy.

The night the UFO was raided actually a big group of us went to a mates place in town (I forget what time the UFO was raided but we were all out of our heads and in need of somewhere else to dance ) - we played the Trade mix above, first and second disc and the place was absolutely hopping by the time we got through them.

Klim

I think he was without a doubt a legend. I think the main problem is that his music hasn't aged well at all, and anyone listening to it for the first time will wonder what all the fuss was about,

He was the first dj to make hard house be taken seriously by his peers. Can you see any of todays hard house djs getting on a global underground series??

Not a fan, think someone suggested that his music hadn't aged too well and that might be some of the reason I don't like it, think by the time I found his stuff I knew I didn't like that hard sound. Maybe if I had heard it in 1995 I might remember him more fondly.

Jay D

GU = Very basicly mixed and built sets, nothing whatsoever special about them and also anyone actually listened to Elements? Tune selection good, not so much the mixing, if anyone were to be completely honest.

derra

The live in Tel Aviv is a brilliant CD , great tune selection which is what is most important to a clubber than being technically brilliant on the mixer etc..
Who gives a flying fúck when on the dance floor as long as the tunes are good, if ya do a thread on over rated DJs ya will have a long thread
Peoples opinions are gonna differ especially when alot here are in the younger age bracket and not around at the time and comparing him to modern DJs with totally differnt genres etc
He was actually playing the Red BOX the week Tokyo G.U was released here, but was on Thursday night and could'nt make it in :mad:
Still prefer the Tel Aviv one, but have another great mix here which i think is so much better than the two of them but it is tagged badly and just says it is very rare and yellow disc 1 & 2 but is an excellent live mix.
Was also supposed to go down to Sir Henrys to see him and Mark Kavanagh but TDV pulled out for health reasons at the time which eventually turned out to be fatal eventually. Never got to see him play which was a disappointment.
He gave Fergie his big break too from seeing him play in Kilwaughter house up North.
He was highly influential to alot of DJs and loved collecting his mixes to which i have a lot of now.
Here is one from early 90's in Kilwaughter House ..
Side A
http://www.mediafire.com/?dzvz0wjztm2
Side B
http://www.mediafire.com/?mvcmvywhonz

derra

derra wrote: »

He gave Fergie his big break too

Jesus.

Another black mark...

derra

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus.

Another black mark...

Would'nt be mad about Fergie meself.
Having said that, he gave an unknown DJ a chance to shine on the big stage and stuff like that has to be commended whether ya like that particular DJ or not.

Jay D

Derra have to disagree with ya buddy. Like everyone's all TDV legend mixer and he's just not. Tune selection is part of making a great set but what has gotten to me is the perfection people have in albums where TDV definitely doesn't. Simple as that. So is he over rated? Certainly.

derra

Jay D wrote: »

Derra have to disagree with ya buddy. Like everyone's all TDV legend mixer and he's just not. Tune selection is part of making a great set but what has gotten to me is the perfection people have in albums where TDV definitely doesn't. Simple as that. So is he over rated? Certainly.

I think it just boils down to personal preference Jay, maybe your looking at it from a different perspective to me with yourself being a DJ
I have very few commercially released live mixes and mostly like just collecting mixes and unmixed compilations, as for the most part the live mixes i have are untouched and straight from the tape deck, whereas alot of the modern mixes would be enhanced by external samplers etc or whatever features mixers have these days and cut and chopped in the studio to make it perfect and then released.
I loved the tunes TDV used in his mixes back then, and they were individual tunes like every tune but not as easy to make it a seamless mix like in other genres.
Remember a while back on Nioldskool a discussion about Sasha and his mixing abilities, and was split down the middle by people saying he was dirt and others saying tune selection is what matters etc, and probably clubbers and DJs were on either side of that.
I am not mad into the technical side of mixing cause i have'nt a clue, i just like when the crossfader goes from side to side real quick to hear whats next and a hint of the tune lol
Saw Dave Clarke few times,mixing like a mad thing , some good nights ,some bad ,but down to personal taste really on the tunage used but no doubting his mixing ability,but ya have to like what ya hear too..
DJs now would probably make a show of TDV but he was good when he was about and that was good enough for me and many other clubbers.
Now let the man R.I.P

jonny68

i was fortunate enough to see TDV a few times and each time he was absolutely rocking,and his mixing spot on as well, that was the golden age of pumping house music (unortunately as the years went on hard house became too fast) but IMO no way was TDV overated.

Executive Steve

derra wrote: »

He gave Fergie his big break too from seeing him play in Kilwaughter house up North.

Rumour has it he saw Fergie doing more than play, and he broke him in before he gave him his break...

FLYNN-DOG

Gas man. Finally someone can have a laugh at all this. I can't imagine Fergie and his Rangers FC loving mates were mad for TDV's lifestyle choice!

Jay D

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

Gas man. Finally someone can have a laugh at all this. I can't imagine Fergie and his Rangers FC loving mates were mad for TDV's lifestyle choice!

Yeah, an epic joke you gotta admit.

And Derra you cheese monger I am letting him RIP, not knocking him for a second, I do realise each to their own

:pac:

FLYNN-DOG

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

I can't imagine Fergie and his Rangers FC loving mates were mad for TDV's lifestyle choice!

Protestants and Loyalists can be gay too...:cool:

derra

Jay D wrote: »

And Derra you cheese monger I am letting him RIP, not knocking him for a second, I do realise each to their own

:pac:

Deleted User wrote: »

Protestants and Loyalists can be gay too...:cool:

''Let's come together right now
oh yeah in sweet harmony''
(in the year 3000 maybe)

CaptainSkidmark

FLYNN-DOG wrote: »

Gas man. Finally someone can have a laugh at all this. I can't imagine Fergie and his Rangers FC loving mates were mad for TDV's lifestyle choice!

There was always story's going about that Ferg or anyone that associated with Tony were of the homosexual nature. Ferg moved over to tony when he was 16 so there was not many of his "rangers loving friends" around with him in those years. Bar of course the others from his home town of Larne such as Robbie Nelson and Gleave and mark dobbin and maybe even Ferg's brother Ken but at that i dont think anyone would care if they were gay or not. from what ferg tells me tony and his partner were the only 2 Homosexuals in " the gang" bar when they played the usual gay haunts of Birmingham and the likes.

That story about Fergie standing on milk carts when Tony seen him dj was untrue also. Lots of untrue story to be honest.

As for Tony being overrated.... i guess like every other dj, its a matter of opinion.

its like Deadmau5, i think he's overrated but there are thousands that think he's a genius.... truth be told.... 2 maybe 3 good tracks out of 200.....

JoeSchmoe

I think TdV gained his reputation from being a DJ, I never saw him DJ, but apparantly he was fantastic at what he did, he was part of a time when being a good DJ was all you needed, you didn't need to be a DJ/producer as is pretty much essential now.

Things like releasing 12" and tunes were all there to raise a DJs profile and cash in on his reputation. I wouldn't use them to judge his talent as a DJ, likewise mix CDs, the amount of prep and licencing of tracks and recording and rerecording that goes into that type of thing is very much removed from being an on point club DJ.

So you can only really judge him or indeed any DJ on the sets they do in clubs and how the crowd reacts to them. and that's impossible to do when he's dead.

A_Fitz

Totally overrated, but then so are most DJs, to be fair. Don't know about his productions - I'm no expert but they would seem technically pretty simple pieces. And as for Fergie, FFS........did he really need to bring him in to the limelight?? Just goes to show it's all about connections - Fergie's mixing is piss poor and his productions are awful.......without TDV he'd be still sucking off Rangers fans up in Larne


**edit

and in fairness, if you couldn't mix hard house, then you couldn't mix jack **** - piss easy to mix

Klim

A_Fitz wrote: »

Totally overrated, but then so are most DJs, to be fair. Don't know about his productions - I'm no expert but they would seem technically pretty simple pieces. And as for Fergie, FFS........did he really need to bring him in to the limelight?? Just goes to show it's all about connections - Fergie's mixing is piss poor and his productions are awful.......without TDV he'd be still sucking off Rangers fans up in Larne


**edit

and in fairness, if you couldn't mix hard house, then you couldn't mix jack **** - piss easy to mix

Good on you. Thanks for that insightful, knowledgable post. You've showed everyone. Close thread I suppose.

Cray92

Overrated big time,he was brutal,responsible for startin off that hard house,worst genre of dance music bar none.

jonny68

Cray92 wrote: »

Overrated big time,he was brutal,responsible for startin off that hard house,worst genre of dance music bar none.

Tony de steamer.

Moderators is there going to be something done about this?

It's one thing slagging off a DJ (although to slag someone who is dead is a bit sick) but bringing someones sexuality into it is not on and people have been banned for less:mad:

seannash

jonny68 wrote: »

Moderators is there going to be something done about this?

It's one thing slagging off a DJ (although to slag someone who is dead is a bit sick) but bringing someones sexuality into it is not on and people have been banned for less:mad:

lighten up johnny.
incase you forgot you posted a zshare link to a track you uploaded in the identity of techno thread which is a HUGE no no on this forum

A_Fitz

Klim wrote: »

Good on you. Thanks for that insightful, knowledgable post. You've showed everyone. Close thread I suppose.

LOL, Fergie's got a fan:D


WTF is wrong with you though?? Don't tell me he's a good mixer, because he isn't, and if you think he is, then you, Sir, don't know what you're on about........he's also a bandwagon-jumping ****, and whatever 'talent' TDV saw in him is not in evidence to my eyes and ears........and TDV was overrated, like all DJs are, end of.

Klim

A_Fitz wrote: »

LOL, Fergie's got a fan:D


WTF is wrong with you though?? Don't tell me he's a good mixer, because he isn't, and if you think he is, then you, Sir, don't know what you're on about........he's also a bandwagon-jumping ****, and whatever 'talent' TDV saw in him is not in evidence to my eyes and ears........and TDV was overrated, like all DJs are, end of.

I wasn't commenting on anything musical. Read my post again. Its good to know we're in 2009 just.

And if all dj's are overrated 'end of', why sir, would you find your goodself perusing the dance music forum??????

Jay D

Leave the Kerryman alone. He may have beaten around the bush a little but his point is still very valid!

tman

A_Fitz wrote: »

and in fairness, if you couldn't mix hard house, then you couldn't mix jack **** - piss easy to mix

That's a pile of bollocks imho... Have a look at some of the more technical DJs like Ben Stevens, Rodi Style, Adam M etc... I'd like to see anybody on this board mix ANY genre of music as well as those guys

Daroxtar

I think you have to take a look at his contemporaries and see where are they now. Back in the day the big names who ranked as highly with the fans as he did were tong, cox, oaky, sasha and the like, all still big names but to varying degrees of relevance. If TDV was still around his music would have evolved but its hard to figure out if he'd still be packing crowds in like Coxy or dropped off the face of the planet like tong or oaky.

Whoever made the point about his music not ageing well is absolutely spot on. I threw on a couple of Trade eps recently and i just cringed at the tunes but when i decided to play them at a party everyone started whooping and hollering.

Anyway, i think myself that if he was still alive he'd be a big name for the odd gig and he'd have produced a few more big tunes but i doubt he'd be the main attraction he was back then.

So was he overrated? Ya, a bit but he wasn't bad either

Jay D

Oh come on, are you really trying to say that hard house is in anyway difficult to perform a perfect set, even if you have only DJ'd for a month? Give me a break!

A_Fitz

Klim wrote: »

I wasn't commenting on anything musical. Read my post again. Its good to know we're in 2009 just.

And if all dj's are overrated 'end of', why sir, would you find your goodself perusing the dance music forum??????

So you're upset because I slagged off Fergie/Rangers' Fans/Gays?? LOL, lighten up boy......slagging off is all it was......I couldn't give a **** what TDV and/or Fergie were/weren't doing etc., etc.......I just think hard house is complete muck, TDV was overrated, and Fergie is brutal, that is all.


And yes, I do think all DJs are at least somewhat overrated, but that doesn't mean I going to stop listening to electronic music, or that I'm not going to have opinions about it.

That's a pile of bollocks imho... Have a look at some of the more technical DJs like Ben Stevens, Rodi Style, Adam M etc... I'd like to see anybody on this board mix ANY genre of music as well as those guys

Relax.......I'm not saying that there aren't technically proficient mixers in the HH scene, I'm just saying that as genres go, it is one of the easiest ones to mix........big difference between mixing two DnB records, two electro records, or two dubstep tracks and two HH tracks, IMO

tman

Daroxtar wrote: »

I think you have to take a look at his contemporaries and see where are they now. Back in the day the big names who ranked as highly with the fans as he did were tong, cox, oaky, sasha and the like, all still big names but to varying degrees of relevance. If TDV was still around his music would have evolved but its hard to figure out if he'd still be packing crowds in like Coxy or dropped off the face of the planet like tong or oaky.

You can't really compare him with Tong and Oakey though... I reckon he'd either still be playing out regularly like Andy Farley for instance, moved on to a more sedate style of music, or just retired ... (TBH he was getting on a bit then though, so I'd say the latter)

I saw Ian M (the supposed godfather of hard house) recently and compared to some of the newer blood playing at the night, his set did absolutely nothing for me... Loads of dead beats, fairly obvious tune selection and just plain boring really. I have a feeling I would have left with the same impression if TDV was still alive and playing out today

KevIRL

Cray92 wrote: »

Overrated big time,he was brutal,responsible for startin off that hard house,worst genre of dance music bar none.

One week ban for pretty obvious trolling.

jonny68 wrote: »

Moderators is there going to be something done about this?

It's one thing slagging off a DJ (although to slag someone who is dead is a bit sick) but bringing someones sexuality into it is not on and people have been banned for less:mad:

Jonny - You have been around here along enough to know about the report post button. I have better things to be doing on a bank holiday weekend then to read every single thread on here. If you dont like a post - report it. Don't come whining on the thread about it if you havent reported it and allowed us a chance to action it

CaptainSkidmark

A_Fitz wrote: »

So you're upset because I slagged off Fergie/Rangers' Fans/Gays?? LOL, lighten up boy......slagging off is all it was......I couldn't give a **** what TDV and/or Fergie were/weren't doing etc., etc.......I just think hard house is complete muck, TDV was overrated, and Fergie is brutal, that is all.


And yes, I do think all DJs are at least somewhat overrated, but that doesn't mean I going to stop listening to electronic music, or that I'm not going to have opinions about it.






Relax.......I'm not saying that there aren't technically proficient mixers in the HH scene, I'm just saying that as genres go, it is one of the easiest ones to mix........big difference between mixing two DnB records, two electro records, or two dubstep tracks and two HH tracks, IMO

Correct me if im wrong and its quite possible i am, But did you not warm up for Fergie last year in tralee?

SteveDon

Dont want to tread on anyones toes here, but ive been hearing some quite ridiculous rumours about fergie, ive nothing against the chap personally and if he wants to start playing techno instead of hard house i say fair play to him.

Maybe someone can verify this but i have heard that he doesnt actually produce his own tunes but most of them are actually the work of alan fitzpatrick and the gang? Anyone know if this is true?

seannash

wouldnt surprise me to be honest.
i do think hes moved away from the hard house stuff but still plays stuff with a harder edge.

also agree with the comment about hard house being simple to mix.it really is quite simple

CaptainSkidmark

SteveDon wrote: »

Dont want to tread on anyones toes here, but ive been hearing some quite ridiculous rumours about fergie, ive nothing against the chap personally and if he wants to start playing techno instead of hard house i say fair play to him.

Maybe someone can verify this but i have heard that he doesnt actually produce his own tunes but most of them are actually the work of alan fitzpatrick and the gang? Anyone know if this is true?

Yeah its Dave Robertson that helps him with the studio work, to be honest, its no big secret. Its a commonly known fact that at least 40% of DJ's have a studio engineer. The ideas for the tracks are all his but its dave robertson that turns the ideas into music.

To be fair, Dave doesn't do that much with Fergie any more because he's finding his feet with the producing himself. All the remixes are Fergie's own work.

Look at Tiesto..... I know for a fact, that DJ Montana Made Flight 643, Lethal Industry, Urban train and Adagio for Cock.

seannash

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

Yeah its Dave Robertson that helps him with the studio work, to be honest, its no big secret. Its a commonly known fact that at least 40% of DJ's have a studio engineer. The ideas for the tracks are all his but its dave robertson that turns the ideas into music.

To be fair, Dave doesn't do that much with Fergie any more because he's finding his feet with the producing himself. All the remixes are Fergie's own work.

Look at Tiesto..... I know for a fact, that DJ Montana Made Flight 643, Lethal Industry, Urban train and Adagio for Cock.

hmm im not too sure about the 40% but i still reckon theres not alot of talent or skill in having the ideas. in dance music its so critical to have the execution done right.you could have a fantastic idea but if you cant get it out and sounding good itsd irrelivent.

just curious how you know for a fact about tiesto

KevIRL

KevIRL wrote: »

One week ban for pretty obvious trolling.

Was going through his post, wondering what did he say, breaking it down, wondering what was so wrong with saying hard house is crap, or blaming TdV for its popularity, wondering if this was not a bit ott...
...and only then I saw the title on his post!

CaptainSkidmark

seannash wrote: »

hmm im not too sure about the 40% but i still reckon theres not alot of talent or skill in having the ideas. in dance music its so critical to have the execution done right.you could have a fantastic idea but if you cant get it out and sounding good itsd irrelivent.

just curious how you know for a fact about tiesto

Its hard to explain without someone else seeing the post and realizing who i am lol.

Ill just leave it at i know someone very well that was on tour with tiesto in that heineken thirst competition. The person was on tour for 8 months so they got a good insight to his studio operations and also is still very good friends with montana.

seannash

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

Its hard to explain without someone else seeing the post and realizing who i am lol.

Ill just leave it at i know someone very well that was on tour with tiesto in that heineken thirst competition. The person was on tour for 8 months so they got a good insight to his studio operations and also is still very good friends with montana.

fair enough.
actually now that you mention it from the few tiesto tracks i had on vinyl back in the late ninetys i kinda remember the montanna name in the credits.

its definitely not uncommon for the silent producer set up but its something i fecking hate if im honest

A_Fitz

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

Correct me if im wrong and its quite possible i am, But did you not warm up for Fergie last year in tralee?

You are completely and utterly wrong - I've never in my live played in a club

A_Fitz

KevIRL wrote: »

One week ban for pretty obvious trolling.

How's that trolling when most people, if asked, would say the exact same thing about HH?? He's just stating the obvious really TBH, and if ye weren't so quick to be banning people on here, you're forum would be a lot better and busier, IMHO

g5fd6ow0hseima

A_Fitz wrote: »

How's that trolling when most people, if asked, would say the exact same thing about HH?? He's just stating the obvious really TBH, and if ye weren't so quick to be banning people on here, you're forum would be a lot better and busier, IMHO

I agree about Hard-House. Along with Happy Hardcore and the likes of Darren Styles, its the worst electronic music there is.

I remember a DCU electronic music advert for tutorials saying 'all records welcome, except for hard house'

DUB1

I seen him a few times and each one he had the crowds rocking and what he has done for the hard house scene is unbleivable and he did release some rockers but i wasnt into a lot of the stuff he done as well, i wud say he is a legend for all the work he done for the hard house scene and dacne music scene in general

CaptainSkidmark

Fergie never played happy hardcore.

A_Fitz, it was the topic of the post he was banned for. not the content

Daroxtar

I remember reading an interview with fergie a while back and he claimed he didnt play "hard house", he played "house which was hard, mixed with some techno". Having never seen him i cant verify if he's telling truth or waffle but thats what he said anyway.

BalcombeSt4

Nah Tony De Vit ain't overrated.
His mixing was very decent especially for it's time (1992 - 1997). A number of his 1995 - 1998 mixes at Naughty But Nice & at mixes and his residency at Trade is a lesson in track-selection, it even inspired people like Keno Flanagan, Rory Orbit, Alan Pullen & Mark Kavanagh to start playing Hard House over here or at least a harder more energetic style of House & some Hard Trance music. And they all become HH producers, with them all releasing tracks on Abbey Discs & Kavanagh setting up his own label with Pullen called Baby Doll.
And Tony's Trade Vol.1 & Vol.3 mixes are some of the best HH mixes ever released on CD maybe only Pete Wardman's Trade Vol.4 is as good.

And as a producer he can't be touched, he's been 20 years dead and not even HH legends like Farely, OD404, Paul King, Mark Kavanagh, Alan Pullen, Ian M, and Paul Glazby haven't been able to surpass him his fresh & innovative music within all that time, actually they've pretty much killed HH, HH was always played between 135 - 150 bpm, now some idiots who are well established are playing it over 170 bpm.

Along with his classic tunes like:
Are You All Ready?
The Dawn
Feel My Love
Skychilds Toccota
Burning Up
Splashdown etc... plus about 40 remixes ranging from the Pet Shop Boys & Bananarama to E-Trax & Patrick Prins.

I've recently come across a number of his previously unreleased tracks like:
Trippy - X2 mixes
Something About You (Unreleased Trade Mix)
Give Me A Reason ( Unreleased Club Mix)
Give Me A Reason ( Unreleased Rap Version)
Tim N Ton
Throw Up
The Pill

So maybe even underrated.

And his own Jump Wax`, isn't filled with loads & loads of tunes but the 10 or so on it are stompers including all B sides from ...
Si Macca Body - blody Blow/ Stranger Things
Sigma 2 - Chemical Hostage/The Controller
Tony De Vit - I'd Don't Care/Resistance is futile
Formate One - Elevate/Tag
Committee -Welcome (I Said Shut Up)
Tony De Vit - Are You All Read/UFO

My favorite HH label of time. Every tune is sure to get people on the dancefloor.

BalcombeSt4

But don't get me wrong like every great producer he had one or two stinkers.

I couldn't stand his remix of Handbaggers - U Found Out, I couldn't stand that record in general anyway. And his very first production in 1992 was a cover of Axel F, which is just better of being forgotten about done under his Version Two guise - https://www.discogs.com/Version-Two-Axel-F/release/1186403 .
I liked all the other records he did under the Verion Two name especially Skychilds Toccata - https://www.discogs.com/Version-II-Skychilds-Toccata/release/556322
The 6am @ Trade mix, 8am @ Trade mix and A Deeper Cut - are all great mixeson that record.
And yes, thats tthe same Deeper Cut who did great Asylum tunes "Feel It" & Organgrinder" plus great remixes of Diddy - Give Me Love & JX Son of a Gun.

I wasn't mad on his remix of Taylor Danes - Tell It To My Heart either. But then I recently heard a unrealesed remix by Tony De Vit of the song & it was much better than mix he realese.

So that's about 3 cons vs about 150 pros.

snickers

Wow this thread really is oldskool loved the trade cds you mention above some whopper tracks on them but some of the tidy stuff was hit and miss the likes of the handbaggers and lots of other tunes at the time were aimed at the queens on the gay scene I have to admit I still love to blare some untidy dub tracks just something about that wobbly beat . I always loved Tony’s version of funky dory good times but at the same time I absolutely can’t stand the dawn should be called the yawn but he always played some belters in his sets sister suck gotta get it up and flip side this world is a ghetto stand out for me in my opinion Tony was a one of the early pioneers of hardhouse and helped to shape it into what it became so for me no not overrated at all rip TDV

BalcombeSt4

I loved most Sister Suck tunes from 96 - 98 like you already said GGU & the World is a Ghetto, also there stuff on Friction Burns label like Jump Up Crew, Please Take Another,Suck This & Clone Ranger.
Also loved the Razor Babes stuff from 1996 - 1998 as well. Razor Babe was just BK's early stuff & in my opinion his best stuff. I loved Razors Babes - Come One Baby 98 which is one of top 20 Hard House tracks. He did remixes of Sister Suck - Jump Up Crew, Mark Kavanagh's Bad Boy, and Cadenza - Trading Faces.

BalcombeSt4

And yeah I really disliked the The Dawn as well.