Kilkenny v Waterford semi final

KevIRL

Dont think there's a thread for this already, if there is, then apologies mods.

The bookies odds really say it all about this match KK 1/7 with Waterford 10/1. Waterford really have nothing to lose, as long as they dont get beat by 23 points or more its an improvement on last year, there will be zero expectation for them.

Sport though can throw up strange senarios, its been an unusual set of circumstances that have led to these two meeting up the year after last years final, even though its unlikely there's always the possiblity that Waterford could do it.

As I mentioned to a KK fan earlier today who was saying that we shouldnt bother to travel....We have already had our worst nightmare and come out the other side, could KK be about to realise their worst nightmare????

Mossy Monk

I envisage another hammering for Waterford. They have not impressed me at all this year.

pajoguy

Is it written in the stars that Justin might come back to haunt waterford????;)

soccymonster

I dunno if kilkenny are only in 2nd gear at the moment or not. Even so, I think kilkenny will win but not as heavily as people would imagine.

Pride Fighter

Have a funny feeling Waterford will win, it is not based on logic, just a gut feeling.

Dan Shanahan will score a hat trick and Eoin Kelly will score all his frees. Waterford will then win in extra time with an Eoin Kelly penalty after Tommy Walsh gets sent off for smacking someone with a hurl needlessly.

Professey Chin

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have a funny feeling Waterford will win, it is not based on logic, just a gut feeling.

Dan Shanahan will score a hat trick and Eoin Kelly will score all his frees. Waterford will then win in extra time with an Eoin Kelly penalty after Tommy Walsh gets sent off for smacking someone with a hurl needlessly.

He hasnt got sent off for it yet so maybe its due:D

premierstone

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have a funny feeling Waterford will win, it is not based on logic, just a gut feeling.

Dan Shanahan will score a hat trick and Eoin Kelly will score all his frees. Waterford will then win in extra time with an Eoin Kelly penalty after Tommy Walsh gets sent off for smacking someone with a hurl needlessly.

You might want to get that checked out could be serious.

suitcasepink

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have a funny feeling Waterford will win, it is not based on logic, just a gut feeling.

Dan Shanahan will score a hat trick and Eoin Kelly will score all his frees. Waterford will then win in extra time with an Eoin Kelly penalty after Tommy Walsh gets sent off for smacking someone with a hurl needlessly.

Great hopes for the game :D Hope your right!!

Oh and while your at it you wouldnt be able to tell me the forecast for tomorrow for Cork?? we're thinking about going there tomorrow

Erin Go Brath

Kilkenny by anything between 5 and 20 points depending on how hard they go at Waterford. I can see Waterford being destroyed. Galway let them off the hook in yesterdays game, Kilkenny will not be so generous. I'd like to see Waterford win but it would be the shock of the century if it did happen, and nothing i've seen from Waterford so far even remotely suggests its possible..

Erin Go Brath

deise_girl wrote: »

Great hopes for the game :D Hope your right!!

Oh and while your at it you wouldnt be able to tell me the forecast for tomorrow for Cork?? we're thinking about going there tomorrow

It'll be raining pink elephants if Waterford beat Kilkenny.

k8bcly

im praying waterford will win but i think its very unlikely!! after all waterford didnt win yesterday just galway lost

Daysha

Waterford need to realise that this is not September 7th part 2 and remember it's still only an All-Ireland semi final. It will be our 6th semi final this decade, a record only bettered by Kilkenny. Forget the aura surrounding the opponents or the constant reminders of last years final which will be no doubt brought up time and time again in the next 2 weeks. We need to believe we're only 70 minutes away from consecutive All-Ireland finals for the first time in our history, and that's the way we should approach it.

This one seems to be drilled in to the players now, but its worth repeating that it is never over till it's over. We were 11-12 points behind Tipp and got the gap down to 4, we were 6 points behind Galway and ended up winning the match. It's very conceivable in the semi that Kilkenny will get goals, or they'll hit you with one of those bursts of points from nowhere, and before you know it, we're 7-8 points behind. That's when the heads dropped last September, and thats something that cannot and will not imo be repeated.

As for tactics and team selections, most of the team picks itself. The full back line will be Murphy, Kearney and Connors, and the only question marks from the 15 that started yesterday will be on D.Prendergast and Shane Casey, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if both of them continue to start. Of course, if Ken is fit then it raises a whole host of questions, but from what I'm hearing, I dont see him making it.

run_Forrest_run

good post Daysha, every post up to yours was pretty nonsensical to be honest.
I see a Kilkenny win but not by the same margin as the AI final last year mainly because the Cats aren't really firing on all cylinders in past games..I could be proven wrong of course (hopefully!).

Professey Chin

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

good post Daysha, every post up to yours was pretty nonsensical to be honest.
I see a Kilkenny win but not by the same margin as the AI final last year mainly because the Cats aren't really firing on all cylinders in past games..I could be proven wrong of course (hopefully!).

Mine made sense
Tommy Walsh has been unbelieveably lucky to not get sent off on more then one occasion

Deise Tom

I have a sneeky feeling that Waterford and Limerick will win the semi finals. Favourites including odds-on ones are there to be beaten.

sslazio11

Kilkenny by about 10. Not enough has changed in the last 12 months for Waterford to win this game. They'll certainly put up more of a fight than last September, but I just can't see how they can win.

buck65

Deise Tom wrote: »

I have a sneeky feeling that Waterford and Limerick will win the semi finals. Favourites including odds-on ones are there to be beaten.

I would give you 15/1 on that scenario. Genuinely.

buck65

Daysha wrote: »

Waterford need to realise that this is not September 7th part 2 and remember it's still only an All-Ireland semi final. It will be our 6th semi final this decade, a record only bettered by Kilkenny.

The only difference is Waterford lost the previous 5!! until last year. They have bottled it on numerous occasions. Reaching a semi final is no great feat nowadays. Clare did it on numerous occasions whilst in decline (2002 beating Waterford, 2005,2006). A very average Limerick are there this year.
Galway ran out of gas last Sunday, fair play to Waterford - the frees from Kelly kept them in it until they finally got it together with 10 minutes remaining. Kilkenny , will win this game by 6 or 7 points, keeping Waterford out of reach and barely reaching 3rd gear.

soccymonster

Deise Tom wrote: »

I have a sneeky feeling that Waterford and Limerick will win the semi finals. Favourites including odds-on ones are there to be beaten.

i have a feeling you could be right. I know that Limerick could do it. And theres just that something telling me that the deise can just pull it off as well. If it actually did happen that both teams make it.. Holy jesus, this would be some year to remember.

run_Forrest_run

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Mine made sense
Tommy Walsh has been unbelieveably lucky to not get sent off on more then one occasion

I'm not going to get drawn into this populist opinion. Even if he wasn't playing the result will still be the same I feel.

Power-surge

I read this morning that Ken McGrath will resume full training with the county this week. I hope he'll make an appearence against KK.

deise48

kk havent been impressive at all this year in the championship are they a team that are in decline or a team that knows that they dont have to play in top gear to win either way i will be putting twenty on waterford at 7\1

suitcasepink

Lads im going to give the two scenarios that I feel could happen, one from a Waterford persons point of view, the other trying to be a nuetral.

Waterford could win. I don't think in any of Kilkennys games did they try this year, and more of the same last year. We could get lucky and play against them while they're in 3rd gear and catch them at the end, like we have been doing in our games this year. Our fitness is showing and detemination. Limerick, Tipperary and Galway we came back in them all. Okay Limerick i think we were ahead anyhow and Tipperary we didn't win but we narrowed the gap from 11 to 4 points whch is something to be proud of. I think Kilkenny save the final for the game that they power through, they cruize through the year then battle on for the final and destroyed us. But this year its a semi so we may catch them off gaurd. And I don't care how many times I get quoted for this but we remain the only team to beat them this year, in the league

The other side is im completly wrong and w bluffed our way this far and kilkenny knock us back to last year and right back to this year again!!

Personally I like scenario one the best. I mean a 1point win over kilkenny may as well be a 10point, either way you beat them :D:D:p

Professey Chin

run_Forrest_run wrote: »

I'm not going to get drawn into this populist opinion. Even if he wasn't playing the result will still be the same I feel.

I never said the result would be different but like it or not he's been very lucky

premierstone

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

I never said the result would be different but like it or not he's been very lucky

As was Maurice Shanahan last sunday but I havent seen any media witch - hunt against him or even a discussion of it here, I referred to it in the match thread and it was just conveniently ignored, if it was Tommy Walsh who did that they're would be a ten page thread here about it :rolleyes:

Limestone1

buck65 wrote: »

The only difference is Waterford lost the previous 5!! until last year. They have bottled it on numerous occasions. Reaching a semi final is no great feat nowadays. Clare did it on numerous occasions whilst in decline (2002 beating Waterford, 2005,2006). A very average Limerick are there this year.
Galway ran out of gas last Sunday, fair play to Waterford - the frees from Kelly kept them in it until they finally got it together with 10 minutes remaining. Kilkenny , will win this game by 6 or 7 points, keeping Waterford out of reach and barely reaching 3rd gear.

Fair point, Limerick , like Waterford last year have got a fairly handy route to the semi. They may have a chance against Tipp if they can keep it low scoring and scrappy. Waterford have not been the free scoring team of old and would also need the game to be low scoring, tight and scrappy to have any chance. Both scenarios are highly unlikely ....For 50-55 mins against both Tipp & Galway , Waterford won very little ball in the half forward line or in the middle of the field. Tipp went 11 pts up and Galway 6 pts up - if they do this against KK , it will be over 20pts and no amount of sendings off or Dan inspired miracles will reverse that !
I'll be hoping for a gale of wind , driving rain, thunder , lightning, mass outbreak of food poisoning and swine flu in KK and maybe some onfield resident's protests during the match ...That should help make a make a game of it

run_Forrest_run

premierstone wrote: »

As was Maurice Shanahan last sunday but I havent seen any media witch - hunt against him or even a discussion of it here, I referred to it in the match thread and it was just conveniently ignored, if it was Tommy Walsh who did that they're would be a ten page thread here about it :rolleyes:

thank you premier, very good point. It just seems to be the in thing to have a pop at Tommy because well, everyone is doing it and he's wearing black 'n amber.

flahavaj

People need to differentiate between what they want to happen and what they think will happen.

I'm a Waterford man, but a realistic one. We haven't given one really decent performance all year, aside from a good showing in the Limerick replay. The first Limerick game we were a shambles and any decent side would have easily beaten us. In the Munster final, Tipp were streets ahead of us and, like they have in all their games, took the foor off the gas and allowed us to make the scoreline respectable. On Sunday Galway were clearly the better team for an hour and a team with more cuteness and big game experience would have easily closed the game out.

Nobody would like us to avenge the AI nightmare more than me, and no one cheered louder below in Thurles on Subday at the final whistle than myself: but lets be realistic here. Unless we up our game and produce a performance ten times better than what we have produced so far this year, we won't just lose again, we'll be embarrassed again.

I can't never remember a time when out fullback line went two championship ganmes without conceding a goal against real quality opposition. We will have to do this to win against KK. Our half back line needs to up their game massively. While Brick has been really good as CB and Tony Brown is still more than capable, they will need to not only out work their opponents, they will have to start delivering far better quality ball than we saw on Sunday. Our midfield is weak and while Shane O Sullivan had a great second half, I severely question if a pairing of he and Moran is close to good enough to take on the likes of Cha. I think getting Molumphy back out here is essential. Our half forward line has been absolutely cleaned out in every game so far, they've been atrocious. We need Kelly back in this line, a hurler of his energy and skill is wasted hanging around the edge of the square and the frustration he has shown all year I think is due to his desire to be involved more. I think Nagle needs to be dropped as he has been ineffective all year. I'd put either Shanahan brother into the FF line (I'd probably start with Maurice and keep Dan on the bench) to start. If Ken is back training he'd also be a great impact sub to bring in after 55-60 minutes and really rouse the crowd.

Realistically looking at all the problems the team has and on the form they've shown, I just can't see us doing enough to beat them. I hope so much I'm wrong in all this and would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. The two certain positive are that they're physically fitter than they've been in their lives and will have no problem lasting a ful 70 mins and I don't think their heads wil drop as their fightbacks this year have shown. Mullane is aso in irrepressible form and needs to be put backj in the corner where he can cause aby marker in the game sever difficulty.

All we can ask is that they do us proud and give everything they have. Hopefully they concentrate on their hurling and don't resort to the tactics we saw before the AI final in Sept. I'm not expecting a victory (in fact abyone who does is totally deluded) and would be happy if they gave a good account of themselves. Anythng else is a bonus. They have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain and getting KK at this stage and not with the added pressure of a final is a bonus.

Na Deisigh Abu.

joeduggan

buck65 wrote: »

I would give you 15/1 on that scenario. Genuinely.

and i suppose you have a sneaky feeling that limerick will beat waterford in the final?

joeduggan

pajoguy wrote: »

Is it written in the stars that Justin might come back to haunt waterford????;)

f**k. didnt think of that. scary.

flahavaj

It would be absolutely typical of Waterford to miraculously pull off the surprise of the century and beat KK only to break our hearts yet again andsuccumb to Limerick or Tipp in the final.

joeduggan

flahavaj wrote: »

People need to differentiate between what they want to happen and what they think will happen.

I'm a Waterford man, but a realistic one. We haven't given one really decent performance all year, aside from a good showing in the Limerick replay. The first Limerick game we were a shambles and any decent side would have easily beaten us. In the Munster final, Tipp were streets ahead of us and, like they have in all their games, took the foor off the gas and allowed us to make the scoreline respectable. On Sunday Galway were clearly the better team for an hour and a team with more cuteness and big game experience would have easily closed the game out.

Nobody would like us to avenge the AI nightmare more than me, and no one cheered louder below in Thurles on Subday at the final whistle than myself: but lets be realistic here. Unless we up our game and produce a performance ten times better than what we have produced so far this year, we won't just lose again, we'll be embarrassed again.

I can't never remember a time when out fullback line went two championship ganmes without conceding a goal against real quality opposition. We will have to do this to win against KK. Our half back line needs to up their game massively. While Brick has been really good as CB and Tony Brown is still more than capable, they will need to not only out work their opponents, they will have to start delivering far better quality ball than we saw on Sunday. Our midfield is weak and while Shane O Sullivan had a great second half, I severely question if a pairing of he and Moran is close to good enough to take on the likes of Cha. I think getting Molumphy back out here is essential. Our half forward line has been absolutely cleaned out in every game so far, they've been atrocious. We need Kelly back in this line, a hurler of his energy and skill is wasted hanging around the edge of the square and the frustration he has shown all year I think is due to his desire to be involved more. I think Nagle needs to be dropped as he has been ineffective all year. I'd put either Shanahan brother into the FF line (I'd probably start with Maurice and keep Dan on the bench) to start. If Ken is back training he'd also be a great impact sub to bring in after 55-60 minutes and really rouse the crowd.

Realistically looking at all the problems the team has and on the form they've shown, I just can't see us doing enough to beat them. I hope so much I'm wrong in all this and would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. The two certain positive are that they're physically fitter than they've been in their lives and will have no problem lasting a ful 70 mins and I don't think their heads wil drop as their fightbacks this year have shown. Mullane is aso in irrepressible form and needs to be put backj in the corner where he can cause aby marker in the game sever difficulty.

All we can ask is that they do us proud and give everything they have. Hopefully they concentrate on their hurling and don't resort to the tactics we saw before the AI final in Sept. I'm not expecting a victory (in fact abyone who does is totally deluded) and would be happy if they gave a good account of themselves. Anythng else is a bonus. They have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain and getting KK at this stage and not with the added pressure of a final is a bonus.

Na Deisigh Abu.

its very refreshing to hear a waterford fan talk sense in the gaa room. hats off:):):)

Limestone1

buck65 wrote: »

I would give you 15/1 on that scenario. Genuinely.

Bookies will give you 28/1 ..............Waterford 7/1 & Limerick 4/1 ...

KevIRL

Limestone1 wrote: »

Bookies will give you 28/1 ..............Waterford 7/1 & Limerick 4/1 ...

That actually gives odds of 39/1 as a double. Tenner bet on PP on these 2 will return 400

chinguetti

Joeduggan hits most of the points i would raise. WD half forwards not winning any ball from puck outs is the main problem and the ball is going straight back in on top of the defence. They don't even jump for the ball most of the time in the last 2 games.

No point playing or putting on Ken McGrath or Gary Hurney if they are not fit. WD will have to score 2-23 or so to win and concede no goals. However, if they go a match without giving away a goal, they usually cough up at least 2 the next day.

Mullane on the radio tonight said that the only way they would beat KK is if a few of them got swine flu. They're totally downplaying their chances to avoid the hype of last year.

lucky-colm

KevIRL wrote: »

That actually gives odds of 39/1 as a double. Tenner bet on PP on these 2 will return 400

i am of to pp to put a tenner on it's a long shot but worth a tenner

Daysha

chinguetti wrote: »

No point playing or putting on Ken McGrath or Gary Hurney if they are not fit. WD will have to score 2-23 or so to win and concede no goals. However, if they go a match without giving away a goal, they usually cough up at least 2 the next day.

Mullane on the radio tonight said that the only way they would beat KK is if a few of them got swine flu. They're totally downplaying their chances to avoid the hype of last year.

I really hope there was a bit of sarcasm in his voice when he said that! We all know what we're up against but c'mon lads, even a small it of confidence wouldn't go astray. If the lads go in expecting to be beat in an All Ireland semi final, what's the point in even turning up?

Speaking about Ken, I was chatting to the man himself in his shop for a bit this afternoon. He's still only taking part in a bit of light training at the sessions and if the match was a week or two later, he'd be more confident. But as it stands at the moment a late sub appearance is probably the best he can hope for.

Bduffman

premierstone wrote: »

As was Maurice Shanahan last sunday but I havent seen any media witch - hunt against him or even a discussion of it here, I referred to it in the match thread and it was just conveniently ignored, if it was Tommy Walsh who did that they're would be a ten page thread here about it :rolleyes:

The difference is, Maurice Shanahan did it once (after al lot of provocation), Tommy Walsh has done it time & again over several seasons since being moved to the back line.

premierstone

Bduffman wrote: »

The difference is, Maurice Shanahan did it once (after al lot of provocation), Tommy Walsh has done it time & again over several seasons since being moved to the back line.

So Maurice has a combined senior intercounty career of what 30 mins?? And should have been sent off, Tommy Walsh has been at the top of the game for years and I challenge you to cite a half dozen times where he should have walked.

gallant1

Davy Fitz will hav all these stupid tactics to upset kilkenny ,but kilkenny will blow them out of the water,cant see waterford beating kilkenny ,Easy path to final for kk

Spiritoftheseventies

How are Waterford going to win this. But pumping high balls into big dan assuming he comes on at some stage. Will be manna from heaven for Kilkenny defence.

Bduffman

premierstone wrote: »

So Maurice has a combined senior intercounty career of what 30 mins?? And should have been sent off, Tommy Walsh has been at the top of the game for years and I challenge you to cite a half dozen times where he should have walked.

Well, I could spend a lot of my free time trawling through KK matches to show you all the times Walsh should have gotten sent off.
Or I could get a life.
But if you believe that your precious Tommy is a clean hurler then I'll leave you in your own little world.

Incidently, I notice you want me to cite A HALF DOZEN incidents? So if I only found five you would win the point? :rolleyes:

premierstone

Bduffman wrote: »

Well, I could spend a lot of my free time trawling through KK matches to show you all the times Walsh should have gotten sent off.
Or I could get a life.
But if you believe that your precious Tommy is a clean hurler then I'll leave you in your own little world.

Incidently, I notice you want me to cite A HALF DOZEN incidents? So if I only found five you would win the point? :rolleyes:

I have no connection or particular likeing for Tommy Walsh, Im a Tipp man incase you didnt know where the home of hurling is and my point is that people have terrible double standards when it comes to these things

Spiritoftheseventies

Kilkenny give no quarter when they hurl. Sometimes they go over the line a bit but should we be highlighting one player.

joeduggan

chinguetti wrote: »

Joeduggan hits most of the points i would raise. WD half forwards not winning any ball from puck outs is the main problem and the ball is going straight back in on top of the defence. They don't even jump for the ball most of the time in the last 2 games.

No point playing or putting on Ken McGrath or Gary Hurney if they are not fit. WD will have to score 2-23 or so to win and concede no goals. However, if they go a match without giving away a goal, they usually cough up at least 2 the next day.

Mullane on the radio tonight said that the only way they would beat KK is if a few of them got swine flu. They're totally downplaying their chances to avoid the hype of last year.

in what post did u agree with me on everything???

joeduggan

Bduffman wrote: »

The difference is, Maurice Shanahan did it once (after al lot of provocation), Tommy Walsh has done it time & again over several seasons since being moved to the back line.

maurice shanahan did it once , that u know of. its the first time we have seen him play on tv. what about club matches????? he might be a dirty little yoke on the pitch?

Bduffman

premierstone wrote: »

I have no connection or particular likeing for Tommy Walsh, Im a Tipp man incase you didnt know where the home of hurling is and my point is that people have terrible double standards when it comes to these things

Fair enough - but I thought the home of hurling was KK these days :pac:

Anyway, I think every player is capable of a bit of dirt from time to time. Its the guys who do it on a consistent basis who should quite rightly be singled out. Tommy Walsh is one of those imo. The guy doesn't know how to tackle, if he doesn't win the ball first time his only fall back is to foul, either by a rugby tackle or throwing his hurl. If Maurice Shanahan does what he did a few more times then I'll say the same about him. But until then...

Bduffman

joeduggan wrote: »

maurice shanahan did it once , that u know of. its the first time we have seen him play on tv. what about club matches????? he might be a dirty little yoke on the pitch?

I have seen him a couple of times in club matches & didn't see any dirt - but that doesn't mean much.

But your post is based on nothing at all. So all you're doing is starting a rumour that he MIGHT be dirty. If you don't have evidence then its just speculation & therefore a meaningless comment.

flahavaj

Premierstone = Tubberadora or possibly English Nicky methinks.

Professey Chin

joeduggan wrote: »

maurice shanahan did it once , that u know of. its the first time we have seen him play on tv. what about club matches????? he might be a dirty little yoke on the pitch?

No its the 1st time youve seen him on tv.He was brought on in the munster final too (and league if I remember right)

And he's not a dirty player from the club matches ive seen. Id class him as a slightly braver version of Dan if anything

premierstone

flahavaj wrote: »

Premierstone = Tubberadora or possibly English Nicky methinks.

Im sorry that just went over my head can you explain it to me?