Should Renault Have Been Banned

thegoth

Just wondering if people think that Renault deserved to be banned from the next GP for what happened with Alonso. I must say, when I saw it on TV I could not believe that the team didnt tell him to pull off the track immediately. I would not like to have been his race engineer if the wheel had come off and killed someone, especially in Turkey. Could be talking serious jail time. Disgraceful behavior.

EvilMonkey

Not the first time a wheel came off i dont remember any banning.

thegoth

Please comment if your voting

Sabre0001

EvilMonkey wrote: »

Not the first time a wheel came off i dont remember any banning.

Yes but it's one of the few times that they knew about it before he pulled away - mechanic was still trying to fix it when he was let go. And he was never told to pull in. Same reasons as I give in the other thread...

We've all seen tires just come off but the important thing is...there was prior warning in this case. By the first corner, it was very obvious that something was wrong.

thegoth

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Yes but it's one of the few times that they knew about it before he pulled away - mechanic was still trying to fix it when he was let go. And he was never told to pull in. Same reasons as I give in the other thread...

We've all seen tires just come off but the important thing is...there was prior warning in this case. By the first corner, it was very obvious that something was wrong.

Totally agree

Here is a quote from the official FIA press release giving the reasons for their decision. I cannot disagree with a word of it. By the way, I like Renault and Alonso, do no agenda with he here

"1) that the competitor knowingly released car no. 7 from the pit stop position without one of the retaining devices for the wheel-nuts being securely in position, this being an indication that the wheel itself may not have been properly secured.

"2) being aware of this, failed to take any action to prevent the car from leaving the pit lane.

"3) failed to inform the driver of this problem or to advise him to take appropriate action given the circumstances, even though the driver contacted the team by radio believing he had a puncture.

"4) this resulted in a heavy car part detaching at turn five and the wheel itself detaching at turn nine."

Ghost Train

I think it should be a harsh penalty, but its the fans that suffer if the team miss the race.

Maybe they should be allowed compete, but not be eligable for points or something, or be put to the back of the grid or a 10 place grid penalty. Then again maybe it needs to be race ban

dor83

I think it's a bit harsh, it was a mistake and, imo, too much is being made of it because of other incidents over the past week or so. I honestly believe that Red Bull releasing Webber into Kimi was much more dangerous.

EvilMonkey

I also commented on the other thread the bit in bold is the important bit

How much time in the pit stop did they have to 1, and 2 stop him, and 3 radio Alonso before he radioed them?
And if they radioed him and called him into the pit the wheel wouldn't have come off
If Massa and Surtees crashes didn't happen, would they have been punished? I think not.

If it was so dangerous why wasn't he black flagged?

Do you not think he knew as soon as he pulled away?
I doubt 1 and 2 is true in the fia report
3 he would have known straight away before he left the end of the pit and the team would have just radioed him and called him into the pit not told him to pull over.

What did Alonso/Piquet do wrong?

Vegeta

Think they definitely deserved some form of punishment but a ban is too much.

Someone above makes a good point, the drivers are being punished here too when in all fairness there wasn't much Alonso could do. A ban is too harsh

thegoth

I think, given the options available to the Stewards, they got a middle of as light as possible, given the fact that a driver was killed by a rougue tyre 7 days earlier and that Massa was almost killed by a rogue piece of suspension a the day before. These two incidents have highlighted just how lethal anything that becomes airboune is in open wheel racing, and for Renault to take the MASSIVE risk of the tyre coming off the wheel, which it did, was unbelieveable.

Imagine if this tyre hit a killed Kimi or Lewis ? Not only would Renault be banned for a race, they would be banned for a season or two and have a few guys up on manslaughter charges in Turkey. The only reason this didnt happen is luck. Plain and simple. Terrible behaviour. By the way, watch here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI9LQTtr6s0 at about 1:10 mark. The tyre almost flung back into the cockpit and hit Alonso.

Defiantly deserved it. Leting Alonso keep on driving was extremely dangerous. Should have been pulled off the track as soon as possible, if not before he left the pits.

thegoth

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I also commented on the other thread the bit in bold is the important bit


Do you not think he knew as soon as he pulled away?
I doubt 1 and 2 is true in the fia report
3 he would have known straight away before he left the end of the pit and the team would have just radioed him and called him into the pit not told him to pull over.

What did Alonso/Piquet do wrong?

This is just your opinion.

The stewards reviewed the TV footage and the car to pit radio communications, so they know the facts

1) I knew there was something wrong with the wheel shortly after the pit stop. James Allen from the BBC knew immediately after the car was released, so therefore, the team must have known

2) They released him from the pit. Ok. This could happen, but they should have got on the radio and told him to park it before entering the track. They didnt

3) "They failed to inform the driver of this problem or to advise him to take appropriate action given the circumstances, even though the driver contacted the team by radio believing he had a puncture". This was confirmed by Alonso after he retired in an interview with the BBC

4) A heavy car part detaching at turn five and the wheel itself detaching at turn nine. This definitely happen

I accept that if the events of the last week had not happened, Renault would not have been banned, but they did. Can or should we ignore these events ? No. How many lives have been saved thanks to the safely improvements that were implemented after Sennas accident ? Kubica, Diniz, Massa ( previous accident involving brake failure. Calculations show HANS saved his life), and Kovelien, off the top of my head. I'm sure they are more.

My point is that what passed for safety 15 years ago, does not pass now. Equally, what may have been acceptable two weeks ago is not now. Its not a knee jerk reaction, its a response to a real risk faced by racing drivers

Frank Bullitt

Do they deserve to be punished,Yes.

Is the punishment right,I think not.

If this goes through then expect to see many empty stands at the GP and lots of complaints from the Spanish public.

thegoth

Gintonious wrote: »

Do they deserve to be punished,Yes.

Is the punishment right,I think not.

If this goes through then expect to see many empty stands at the GP and lots of complaints from the Spanish public.

Things dont get much more serious than this. Someone could easily have been killed. If the wheel had come off 20 seconds earlier while Alonso was being lapped by 15 cars and it smacked a driver on the head what would have happened ? What punishment would you have given him ?

Should we now base punishments on how they may impact the attendance at the next race ? If thats the case Lewis would had a licence to do anything before the british GP, and both Ferrari drivers could carry a handgun and start shooting out tyres of people they are behind, before the Italian GP........

Bottom line is this was the most serious breach of safety I have ever seen by a team and Renault are very lucky they didnt get a more severe ban. Since they have appealed, they might yet. Actually, I's say their chances of getting a more severe ban are much higher than having the ban removed.

Anyway, Alonso will be in a Ferrari for Velencia ;-)

RayM

They should be fined heavily and excluded from receiving points in the Constructors' Championship for three races. In a season where there are only twenty cars, reducing the grid to eighteen (and excluding a two-time champion from his home GP) would be detrimental not just to Renault, but also to the sport itself.

thegoth

RayM wrote: »

They should be fined heavily and excluded from receiving points in the Constructors' Championship for three races. In a season where there are only twenty cars, reducing the grid to eighteen (and excluding a two-time champion from his home GP) would be detrimental not just to Renault, but also to the sport itself.

I could live with that. IMO the above is equal to a race ban

EvilMonkey

thegoth wrote: »

My point is that what passed for safety 15 years ago, does not pass now. Equally, what may have been acceptable two weeks ago is not now. Its not a knee jerk reaction, its a response to a real risk faced by racing drivers

If you think this punishment would not have been given 2 weeks ago then this is definitely a knee jerk reaction.
Motorsport has not suddenly become more dangerous. A wheel off this week is just as dangerous as a wheel off 2 weeks ago.

Beekay

thegoth wrote: »

I would not like to have been his race engineer if the wheel had come off and killed someone, especially in Turkey. Could be talking serious jail time. Disgraceful behavior.

....Hungary

thegoth wrote: »

1) I knew there was something wrong with the wheel shortly after the pit stop. James Allen from the BBC knew immediately after the car was released, so therefore, the team must have known

Did you watch the right race :pac::pac:

thegoth

EvilMonkey wrote: »

If you think this punishment would not have been given 2 weeks ago then this is definitely a knee jerk reaction.
Motorsport has not suddenly become more dangerous. A wheel off this week is just as dangerous as a wheel off 2 weeks ago.

What is the amount of time that goes by then ? Two years ? Its was realised a few years ago that we need protection at the side of the drivers head. How long do we wait until we implemented it? It was realised a few years ago that we needed HANS. How long goes by until its implemented?

What I am saying is that loose wheels on the track has always been a major risk. Just because we havent seen any issues with them in the last few years does not mean we should take precautions. Remember a Fan was killed in Italy a few years ago by a loose wheel.

What Renault did was wreckless. What would you think if someone drove along a motorway with a wheel loosely tied to the boot ? How would you feel if you mother or loved one was driving 100m behind them at 120kph ?

What I am saying is that awareness has been raised of a very real risk, and we need to do something about it. What I would suggest is doubling the strength of the tethers that hold on the wheels on the event of a crash. I know this would not have prevented yesterdays event, but that was a freakish thing that you cant really legislate for.

EvilMonkey

thegoth wrote: »

What is the amount of time that goes by then ? Two years ? Its was realised a few years ago that we need protection at the side of the drivers head. How long do we wait until we implemented it? It was realised a few years ago that we needed HANS. How long goes by until its implemented?

What I am saying is that loose wheels on the track has always been a major risk. Just because we havent seen any issues with them in the last few years does not mean we should take precautions. Remember a Fan was killed in Italy a few years ago by a loose wheel.

What Renault did was wreckless. What would you think if someone drove along a motorway with a wheel loosely tied to the boot ? How would you feel if you mother or loved one was driving 100m behind them at 120kph ?

What I am saying is that awareness has been raised of a very real risk, and we need to do something about it. What I would suggest is doubling the strength of the tethers that hold on the wheels on the event of a crash. I know this would not have prevented yesterdays event, but that was a freakish thing that you cant really legislate for.

What needs to happen is for the FIA to investigate why safety measures in already in place failed, and if they need to be changed. This needs to be carried out by experts in motorsport safety not ill informed opinion.
A) In the case of Surtees why the wheel came off the car, i dont know if F2 uses the same tethers as F1, if they do why it failed, if they dont why are safety enhancements in F1 not used in junior categories etc.
In Massa's case why the back of a car seems to have disintegrated, what caused it, is it likely to occur again do they need to make changes. Along with possibly improving helmet design is it necessary? etc.
c) In Alonso's case why the wheel came off when its not supposed to, even with a loose nut. And if the use of wheel fairings is a contributory factor should they be banned etc.
Then if they find that Renault were not using best practise in their lock nut design or they were at fault for the failure by using a sub standard design, maybe a punishment should be considered.

Then and only then will motorsport possibly be safer, banning Renault for a decision made in 30sec to 1 minute in the heat of a race and for something that has never been punished before and than been particularly harsh, dose not make F1 safer.

Any comparisons to what happens on a public road is just pointless. Motorsport is inherently dangerous practised in a way to minimise risks as much as possible. The risks will never be fully removed.

Cookie_Monster

I don't see why they were banned tbh. There was no way the team could have stopped him pulling out of the pits under the circumstances, reaction times just not quick enough.

Alonso also did slow down considerably on the way back around. I think it would have been premature to pull off as there was no real way of knowing whether the tire would have come off or not.

Also probably the most over reactionary commentary I ever heard by BBC when the wheel came off! He was almost screeming

De Hipster

The ban seems harsh while the outcome of an investigation is pending & particularly unfair on Piquet & his pit crew who were not at fault.

However it was an extremely dangerous incident. The Renault wheel potentially posed much more of a danger than the Brawn/Massa incident (freak accident) and was certainly much more avoidable. Renault could and should have avoided this incident, assuming that the pit crew (particularly the guy designated to that wheel) were/should have been aware of the impending disaster.

The whole GP had similar notes, near misses & almost tragedies and could very nearly have been as memorable as F1's worst weekend ever - Apr 30th/May 1st 1994.

thegoth

EvilMonkey wrote: »

What needs to happen is for the FIA to investigate why safety measures in already in place failed, and if they need to be changed. This needs to be carried out by experts in motorsport safety not ill informed opinion.
A) In the case of Surtees why the wheel came off the car, i dont know if F2 uses the same tethers as F1, if they do why it failed, if they dont why are safety enhancements in F1 not used in junior categories etc.
In Massa's case why the back of a car seems to have disintegrated, what caused it, is it likely to occur again do they need to make changes. Along with possibly improving helmet design is it necessary? etc.
c) In Alonso's case why the wheel came off when its not supposed to, even with a loose nut. And if the use of wheel fairings is a contributory factor should they be banned etc.
Then if they find that Renault were not using best practise in their lock nut design or they were at fault for the failure by using a sub standard design, maybe a punishment should be considered.

Then and only then will motorsport possibly be safer, banning Renault for a decision made in 30sec to 1 minute in the heat of a race and for something that has never been punished before and than been particularly harsh, dose not make F1 safer.

Any comparisons to what happens on a public road is just pointless. Motorsport is inherently dangerous practised in a way to minimise risks as much as possible. The risks will never be fully removed.

I take issue with you calling me "ill informed". I am quiet well informed when it comes to F1 matters.

If you take the trouble of reading what I said was that "I would suggest is doubling the strength of the tethers that hold on the wheels on the event of a crash."

I did not say that anything has or should be done. It should be left to the experts with the correct formal training and data to determine what should be done.

I expect an apology for a the personal insult posted above. It was very very uncalled for and totally at odds with the tone of the thread so far. I fully respect the opinions of everyone here, even people I disagree with. If memory serves me correctly, this is not the first time I have read totally uncalled for insults directed by you at other posters here.

It really turns me off posting here when threads like this turn personal. All most people want to do is have a healthy debate about the sport they love.

gpjordanf1

If they caused an accident then yes they would have deserved the ban.

But they are punishing everyone including the fans, which is unjust.

Anyway they will appeal and win, its not a big deal.

Flavio will sweat alot and make everyone uncomfortable and that will be that.

Plenty of cars have left the pits with wheel not on correctly over the years and have never got bans, not that I remember? Could be wrong though!

leeroybrown

I voted no purely on the basis that at any other race so far this season the punishment would have been less severe. Unless it transpires that there was an official diktat on the matter of wheel safety to everyone prior to the race I'm assuming that the stewards have been slightly heavy handed in the wake of the Massa and Surtees incidents.

They do deserve a fairly heavy punishment for failing to inform Alonso via radio swiftly. The failed wheel attachment and release could happen by accident at any pit garage and the past proves that it's extremely difficult to stop a car leaving the pit lane once it gets going.

Robbo

thegoth wrote: »

What I am saying is that awareness has been raised of a very real risk, and we need to do something about it. What I would suggest is doubling the strength of the tethers that hold on the wheels on the event of a crash. I know this would not have prevented yesterdays event, but that was a freakish thing that you cant really legislate for.

I've re-read that 6 times and fail to see your reasoning. It is truly a textbook example of doublethink.

You acknowledge that the tethers only work if the wheel is properly attached to the car to begin with and then advocate strengthening the tethers despite them not being material to Alonso's incident?

To prevent a repeat of the failure on Barichello's car, would you recommend a strengthening of brake ducts, seat mounts or something equally remote from the material component?

I believe the punishment will be mitigated on appeal because it's poor PR to keep Alonso out of his home race.

thegoth

thegoth wrote: »

What is the amount of time that goes by then ?

What I am saying is that awareness has been raised of a very real risk, and we need to do something about it. What I would suggest is doubling the strength of the tethers that hold on the wheels on the event of a crash. I know this would not have prevented yesterdays event, but that was a freakish thing that you cant really legislate for.

I did not mean the above as a way of preventing something like Alonsos incident. I meant it as a way of trying to prevent wheels coming off in accidents like we see all to often.

I dont think there is much you could ever do to prevent something like the Alonso incident

To be clear. I accept that motorsport is dangerous, but I do think all reasonable steps should be taken to make it as safe as possible. Wheels come off F1 cars on a regular basis. This is very dangerous. People have lost their lives to them twice this decade in F1. Once in Australia and once in Italy. With relatively little effort I'm sure these occurances would be hugely reduced. Wheels rarely come off in IRL now thanks to their tethering solution

leeroybrown

Wheels coming off in F1 also seem to be a rarity now with the current generation of tethers. The tethers themselves seem to be sufficiently strong once the wheel is correctly attached to the hub. Unfortunately there's nothing the tethers will be able to do in an incident where the wheel detaches from the hub as happened in Alonso's case.

In the case of the Surtees' incident there were no tethers as they're not part of the current F2 requirements. I'm sure that they'll be making their way into a number of the lower formula's specifications as a result of this unfortunate incident.

Irishshin

I think the punishment was too harsh.

EvilMonkey

thegoth wrote: »

I take issue with you calling me "ill informed". I am quiet well informed when it comes to F1 matters.

If you take the trouble of reading what I said was that "I would suggest is doubling the strength of the tethers that hold on the wheels on the event of a crash."

I did not say that anything has or should be done. It should be left to the experts with the correct formal training and data to determine what should be done.

I expect an apology for a the personal insult posted above. It was very very uncalled for and totally at odds with the tone of the thread so far. I fully respect the opinions of everyone here, even people I disagree with. If memory serves me correctly, this is not the first time I have read totally uncalled for insults directed by you at other posters here.

It really turns me off posting here when threads like this turn personal. All most people want to do is have a healthy debate about the sport they love.

I wasn't saying you were ill informed and if you were insulted by my post i apologise.
What i meant was without a detailed report on the incidents any speculation on safety upgrades that may or may not be needed is ill informed.

As for increasing the strength of the tethers, if there were in use in the F2 cars then they definitely need to be looked at because clearly they didn't work.

I dont remember ever insulting other posters on here and value the opinion of everyone posting here(unless there on my ignore list :pac:, joke ).

I still dont see how banning Renault makes F1 safer. What would make motorsport safer is what i posted and in my opinion that is what the FIA should focus on, not dishing out a ban for a mistake.

Like i said the wheel is not supposed to come off with a loose nut
Heading back to the pit is the standard procedure in this scenario which is what Alonso was doing he had slowed (believing he had a puncture) i dont see what the team telling him it was a loose nut would do.
And i dont believe for 1 second that the wheel man let him go knowing the nut was loose.

leeroybrown

leeroybrown wrote: »

In the case of the Surtees' incident there were no tethers as they're not part of the current F2 requirements. I'm sure that they'll be making their way into a number of the lower formula's specifications as a result of this unfortunate incident.

I have to correct myself. I double checked and the F2 spec does actually include tethers.

EDIT: They seem to be the same 2005 spec tethers as the F1 cars use. I'm guessing that they'll be re-visiting the specs.

andyman

Should have gotten some sort of a fine or a reprimand, but a ban is too far imo and I don't think it would have happened if Henry Surtees hadn't been so unfortunate last week.

leeroybrown

Another possible part of this issue may have been the selection of penalties available to the stewards at the time. A disqualification in Hungary meant nothing to Renault, a grid drop for Valencia was probably deemed too mild and the stewards are limited in the financial penalties they can impose (max $50,000 I think). Given the circumstances it may have been the only appropriate punishment they had available.

I still think that it's a tiny bit too heavy given past precedent and will probably be negotiated down slightly prior to Valencia. Also, as Robbo points out, they hardly want Alonso to be missing for his home GP. Sadly that will probably be a factor in the decision as well as sporting merit.

amacachi

Some points docking or not allowing them to score constructors' points for a coupla races would be better, as far as I know the prize money to each team is based on that, so it would be a pretty big financial penalty.

hi_sir

no one has realy mentioned alonso and his part in this ok in the pits a mistake happened but alonso knew there was a prob with the wheel yet he drove on he should have pulled in,when that wheel flew off it could another car or car's it could have hit now maybe it was the team pushing him round to get back into the pits,but at that stage his race was f>ucked so pulling in would have been the safer option specially after the massa thing the day before

leeroybrown

Alonso radioed the team thinking that he had a puncture. He'll have been trying to get back to the pits as quickly as he thought the tyre could take. That's perfectly normal and acceptable. The one area where Renault really messed up was in not getting a message from the garage to the pit wall and out to Alonso letting him know what the problem was.

EvilMonkey

hi_sir wrote: »

no one has realy mentioned alonso and his part in this ok in the pits a mistake happened but alonso knew there was a prob with the wheel yet he drove on he should have pulled in,when that wheel flew off it could another car or car's it could have hit now maybe it was the team pushing him round to get back into the pits,but at that stage his race was f>ucked so pulling in would have been the safer option specially after the massa thing the day before

Why should he have pulled in? the wheel is not supposed to come off with a loose nut.

hi_sir

well im not a F1 race engineer but any dope could tell the car was undrivable and with the time loss his race was over hence my point of why not pull over,feck all to be gained.well evilmonkey now you you have learned somthing when a nut is loose yes the wheel does come off:D:D:D

De Hipster

hi_sir wrote: »

no one has realy mentioned alonso and his part in this ok in the pits a mistake happened but alonso knew there was a prob with the wheel yet he drove on he should have pulled in,when that wheel flew off it could another car or car's it could have hit now maybe it was the team pushing him round to get back into the pits,but at that stage his race was f>ucked so pulling in would have been the safer option specially after the massa thing the day before

Alonso is a racing driver, the red mist is a well known phenomenon in racing (not just cars), adrenaline & competitive edge kick in reaching the finish line in the best possible position is the only objective.

For racing drivers, mechanics, pit crews etc the race is never over until the last car has crossed the finish line.

His race was never "f>ucked" until he couldn't race anymore...

Have you ever competed? Justified spend to a sponsor based on results never mind the fact that you pulled in because there may have been an issue?!

If he had pulled in without trying to get to the pits to have the problem rectified...I as team boss would certainly have fired him!

EvilMonkey

hi_sir wrote: »

well im not a F1 race engineer but any dope could tell the car was undrivable and with the time loss his race was over hence my point of why not pull over,feck all to be gained.well evilmonkey now you you have learned somthing when a nut is loose yes the wheel does come off:D:D:D

Thats why Alonso is a world champion and you aren't! :P
If the car was underivable how did he drive back to the pit?
As for the wheel coming off, yeah it should be looked into why the safety device that stops the wheel coming off failed and why the wheel nut was loose in the first place.

thegoth

Have to agree. Its not Alonso's fault. He is supposed to drive unless he really thinks its unsafe to do so. Its accepted practice to drive with a puncture or on just 3 wheels ( normally if the tyre has discingrated ). The team should have told him to park it.

Getting back to the thread title. I think this ban for Renault will be a gentle reminder to other teams not to take liberties when it comes to safety

hi_sir

De Hipster wrote: »

Alonso is a racing driver, the red mist is a well known phenomenon in racing (not just cars), adrenaline & competitive edge kick in reaching the finish line in the best possible position is the only objective.

For racing drivers, mechanics, pit crews etc the race is never over until the last car has crossed the finish line.

His race was never "f>ucked" until he couldn't race anymore...

Have you ever competed? Justified spend to a sponsor based on results never mind the fact that you pulled in because there may have been an issue?!

If he had pulled in without trying to get to the pits to have the problem rectified...I as team boss would certainly have fired him!

you should go into Pr for renault

''His race was never "f>ucked" until he couldn't race anymore'' why did he pull after he got new tyres red mist cleared.

and yes i compete mainly in rallying but karted when i was younger


''If he had pulled in without trying to get to the pits to have the problem rectified...I as team boss would certainly have fired him!''

you'd make some team boss

leeroybrown

De Hipster wrote: »

Alonso is a racing driver, the red mist is a well known phenomenon in racing (not just cars), adrenaline & competitive edge kick in reaching the finish line in the best possible position is the only objective.

I don't think that comes into it at all. The standard practice in F1 has always been for a driver to limp back to the pits if replacing one wheel will fix the problem. No red mist required.

De Hipster

hi_sir wrote: »

you should go into Pr for renault

''His race was never "f>ucked" until he couldn't race anymore'' why did he pull after he got new tyres red mist cleared.

and yes i compete mainly in rallying but karted when i was younger


''If he had pulled in without trying to get to the pits to have the problem rectified...I as team boss would certainly have fired him!''

you'd make some team boss

I'm surprised that if you compete in stages rallying that you don't identify with the racing driver mentality...I would never quit while finishing was an option.

As for my team boss credentials ...I would also have sacked JM Latvala for his most recent cock-up in WRC Poland but for the extent of his Finnish sponsors. His place is surely hanging in the balance if Malcolm Wilson has a business bone in his body, last chance saloon beckons.

hi_sir

yes i have been in situations where i would put the car on my back to get to finish if i needed to but then there have been days where you have to look and acess the situation,one year for example in a tarmac round i lost the brakes on the last stage now it was sickning i had two chances go on and risk been in a shunt or holding up cars behind me or worse ending up in an accident with one of them or pull in after all its a rally you have to think of the safty of the man beside you your fellow competors and spectators,ok its no where near the dizzy heights of F1.
but the point im trying to make is with the time alonso lost and the time it took to go into the pit would have at least left him a lap down,now i have saw in the past where incidents have happened in races with time loss and teams have just pulled cars into the garage and race over

TheChrisD

IMO, a race ban is a little too harsh. The team faffed up, onoz. Alonso did what he was supposed to do, which was to drive at reduced speeds off the racing line so as not to impede other drivers or willingly put their safety at risk.

Pit crews make mistakes all the time. Take some of tyre changers missing lug nuts at the NASCAR event and losing spots, or in the IndyCars TK's fuel hose not closing as he left the pits causing his car to catch fire. And F1 cars don't exactly leave without the fuel hose all the time!

dor83

hi_sir wrote: »

but the point im trying to make is with the time alonso lost and the time it took to go into the pit would have at least left him a lap down,now i have saw in the past where incidents have happened in races with time loss and teams have just pulled cars into the garage and race over

Yes but you have to remember that with the limited testing in F1 now they try to use every lap of track time they can possibly get, the same reason Hamilton finished the race in Nurburgring even though he had no chance of finishing in the points.

EvilMonkey

dor83 wrote: »

Yes but you have to remember that with the limited testing in F1 now they try to use every lap of track time they can possibly get, the same reason Hamilton finished the race in Nurburgring even though he had no chance of finishing in the points.

That and their has to be something physical wrong with the car if you retire.
I think Alonso could have continued in the race but retired to get a free gearbox change for Valencia and save the engine. :pac:
Now they get to save a weekend worth of ware on their engines :P

54kroc

I can't see the point in stopping them race, Just take points from the team instead.
It could be good for Alonso though, he is supposed to have a clause in his contract that Renault have to provide him with a car for every race and in light of the massa accident it hopefully paves the way for him to join Ferrari

De Hipster

hi_sir wrote: »

yes i have been in situations where i would put the car on my back to get to finish if i needed to but then there have been days where you have to look and acess the situation,one year for example in a tarmac round i lost the brakes on the last stage now it was sickning i had two chances go on and risk been in a shunt or holding up cars behind me or worse ending up in an accident with one of them or pull in after all its a rally you have to think of the safty of the man beside you your fellow competors and spectators,ok its no where near the dizzy heights of F1.

Different situations call for drastically different actions, many times F1 drives limp to the pits and rarely does it end up in a serious incident.

Regularly WRC drivers traverse road sections (open to the public) in cars that are far from road worthy in an attempt to reach the service crew. Take the example of Loeb driving to service on two wheels with struts & springs raining out over the road behind him.

but the point im trying to make is with the time alonso lost and the time it took to go into the pit would have at least left him a lap down,now i have saw in the past where incidents have happened in races with time loss and teams have just pulled cars into the garage and race over

It's never over until the chequered flag is lowered ..previous events have had a little as 5 classified finishers.

Oblomov

In the case of the Surtees' incident there were no tethers as they're not part of the current F2 requirements.

Tethers are fitted to all F2 cars as standard fitment and part of the pre race scrutineering check.

The point being ignored, the wheel was insecure at the time of leaving the pit. If the wheel was not correctly tightened why did the wheel man signal an OK? if he did not signal an OK, why did the flag man signal a go?
Then, use of the pit lane red light, the message to Alonso, Alonso own awareness of the situation all contribute to a gross negligence scenario. Not just by one person but several, so a one race ban is a suitable pinishment.

Regardless of where or who is racing in the next GP.