Mazda 3 Vs Skoda Octavia

witless_steve

Hi all thought I'd sound out the petrol heads here for a little advice.
I'm looking to move up from the super mini size to a small family size car.
I have a budget of around $10k. I need a hatchback (saloons don't have a big enough boot to carry the junk my missus wants to haul around from time to time), ideally not bigger then 1.6 but not a complete deal breaker, with some nice toys installed (air con, i pod compatible radio, etc).
After doing a little sniffing around I've found two that might fit the bill.
2005 Mazda 3 1.6 touring
and a 2005 Skoda Octavia Elegance 1.6.

Am I looking in the right area or have I missed some gems?
Looking forward to reading your suggestions.

vectra

Why not a diesel Octavia?

This one? >> 2005 Octavia
Or this.>> 2006 Octavia 2.0 Diesel Auto. :cool:

kluivert

Mrs got an 05 Astra diesel 1.5 year ago and very sorry didnt buy the Skoda Octy diesel.

Her parents have a 1.4 06 Octy and I love driving it. Its a comfortable place to be but its slow and the 1.4 has to be worked hard to carry its weight, therefore the 1.6 would be a better option.

I am also a fan of the Mazda 3 - the touring model is the top end and the best. I like how it drives and again is a nice place to be on a drive.

If I had to choose it would be the Skoda Octy. So much bang for your buck.
The boot is huge and shows up alot of family size . Plus its a hatchback so when you fold out the seats its space is massive.

witless_steve

vectra wrote: »

Why not a diesel Octavia?

This one? >> 2005 Octavia
Or this.>> 2006 Octavia 2.0 Diesel Auto. :cool:

Thanks for the links vectra.
I haven't driven a diesel before so hadn't thought of adding them to the list.
Will certainly keep it in mind. If I do go for a diesel do I need a much larger engine then if it was petrol?
I've heard that diesel engines are less thirsty then petrol ones so bigger engine doesn't mean bigger fuel bills. Is that true?

vectra

witless_steve wrote: »

Thanks for the links vectra.
I haven't driven a diesel before so hadn't thought of adding them to the list.
Will certainly keep it in mind. If I do go for a diesel do I need a much larger engine then if it was petrol?
I've heard that diesel engines are less thirsty then petrol ones so bigger engine doesn't mean bigger fuel bills. Is that true?

Dont worry about driving a diesel.
Beautiful to drive.
Tax will be dearer on those as they are 1.9 and 2.0 ltre.
BUT
Both should return 50MPG average.. Up to 60 on a run so big savings there for you.
Plus the HUGE boot for your wife to go shopping.

Test drive one.
You will fall in love with it.
I myself drive a 1.4 Tdi ( supermini ) SEAT Cordoba.
HUGE boot again but you want to come up a size in car?
I did see one like mine on carzone recently for just under €11k, it was a 2008 TDi sport (identical to mine )
Great little car and being 2008 is only €104 per year tax.
Plenty of power if you are not a "Racey Type"
Even if you do like to drive on a bit.. This wont dissapoint you.

BostonB

Why compare the Skoda Octavia and the Mazda 3? They are not in the same class (in terms of size). The Mazda 6 would be a fairer comparision no? If you not doing a lot of mileage, and not buying a 2008 or newer car that will fall under the new tax rates. Then a diesel might not be worth the extra expense. You'll probably by a newer lower mileage petrol model. You lose more in depreciation than anything else, so fixate on that as well. That said between the Mazda 3 and Octavia I'd go with the Octavia, either diesel or the 1.6 petrol which has decent poke. Another option is a Ford C-Max, I've seen some very nice ones of those around for 10~11K huge boot, and more roomy than the Octavia. The Ford diesel 1.6 is a nice engine. A 1.6 VW Touran also starts around 10~11k too. Again more space than an Octavia.

witless_steve

BostonB wrote: »

Why compare the Skoda Octavia and the Mazda 3? They are not in the same class (in terms of size). The Mazda 6 would be a fairer comparision no?

If you not doing a lot of mileage, and not buying a new car that will fall under the new tax rates. Then a diesel might not be worth the extra expense. You'll probably by a newer lower mileage petrol model. You lose more in depreciation than anything else, so fixate on that not the tax.

I drove a Skoda Fabia while abroad and quite liked it but found it a little small. I was told that the Octavia was the equivalent of the mazda3.
I'm hoping to get a 3-4 year old car in good nick, with some nice toys, a little bit of pull so you can overtake safely on bypasses for about 10k.
I'm looking for anything about the same size as a Focus or Mazda 3, all brands considered. I figured that I'd find out if I'd missed some gems and I seem to have forgotten about diesel on my travels but will look into them.

Will have a look at the Mazda 6 online see what it's like.

vectra

BostonB wrote: »

Why compare the Skoda Octavia and the Mazda 3? They are not in the same class (in terms of size). The Mazda 6 would be a fairer comparision no? .

Mazda 6 is in the Mondeo range isnt it?

Octavia based on the Golf??
Golf would be in the Mazda 3 range ??
Yes??
no??

I would much prefer an Octavia than an ugly C max

spank_inferno

I think comparing the Mazda 3 & the Octavia is fair.

Despite its long chassis, the octavia is just a Golf
and the Golf would be a competitor car for the Mazda 3 as well.

I would see the octavia/ mazda 3 /golf / Focus / Auris as all being peers in the mid-family car range.

The Mazda 6 however is meant to be their top of the line so I guess its peer group would be the Mondeo / Passat / Superb /Avensis lines.

Anyway, of the 2 I would also go for the octavia.
I think the 1.6 mpi came in 2 bhp's?, a 78bhp and a 102 bhp unit?
I dont know if the smaller one was still in production on the mark 2 octavia.

BostonB

vectra wrote: »

...I would much prefer an Octavia than an ugly C max

When an Octavia become a style icon? Pretty bland itself. The C-Max is probably a better drive. None are a Lotus though. You could cram the family into a 2 door couple if image is all important to you. Form over function. But it gets old real fast. Even some saloons can be tight due to the short wheel base. Older A4 is very poor compared to many for example.

I'd look beyond what the specs say about the size and go sit in these and look at the boot. A lot of a saloons, be they Ocatvia, Mondeo whatever are actually not that wide, due to the curving sides, and interior layout. A squarer shape is a lot more room. Which becomes an issue stuffing buggies, shopping, bulky car seats, rain gear and the grandmother all in at the same time. A mini MPV has often more space, and is shorter than a saloon.

vectra

BostonB wrote: »

When an Octavia become a style icon? Pretty bland itself. The C-Max is probably a better drive. None are a Lotus though. You could cram the family into a 2 door couple if image is all important to you. Form over function. But it gets old real fast. Even some saloons can be tight due to the short wheel base. Older A4 is very poor compared to many for example.

I'd look beyond what the specs say about the size and go sit in these and look at the boot. A lot of a saloons, be they Ocatvia, Mondeo whatever are actually not that wide, due to the curving sides, and interior layout. A squarer shape is a lot more room. Which becomes an issue stuffing buggies, shopping, bulky car seats, rain gear and the grandmother all in at the same time. A mini MPV has often more space, and is shorter than a saloon.

I didnt mean it that way regarding "style icons"
I would prefer to drive a Car than a People carrier.
I assume OP would as well with regards to the car styles he/she suggested.

As for boot space
Dont be put off by the shape
Octavia11

Most noticeable is the rear of the cabin where some clever use of the science of ergonomics has created truly generous legroom while an already cavernous luggage bay has grown in size, a further 32 litres providing 560 litres of useable room with all seats occupied.

C-Max

510-litres

BostonB

Have you sat in both? Used both? The boot on the Otavia is huge but is a deep boot. You'll be taking things out to get to stuff at the back. The C-Max is more accessable. Anyway its just an alternative, and might be closer to the price point.

Biro

The Mazda 3 is the competitor for the Octavia, they're in the same class. The Mazda has better engines and a much better chassis. It's a more rewarding drive than the Octavia. The Octavia has a bit more room but the 1.6 petrol is poor, the 1.9 diesel is almost as poor.
I'd go with a Mazda 3 1.6 diesel if you can find one. That engine is a long way ahead of the 1.9 in the Octavia.

witless_steve

If I do get a mazda is it hard to upgrade it?
A silly sounding question but one that just came to mind.
Sometimes the basic radio is a bit naff and you want to change it or add air con as an after market add on.
Are those things really hard with a mazda?

EPM

A touring spec mazda 3 will have air con as standard. With the radio, you can probably buy a fascia adapter so you can fit any DIN or double DIN radio you want to the dash as they come with a built in one

BostonB

witless_steve wrote: »

If I do get a mazda is it hard to upgrade it?
A silly sounding question but one that just came to mind.
Sometimes the basic radio is a bit naff and you want to change it or add air con as an after market add on.
Are those things really hard with a mazda?

Regardless of Make, no one in their right mind would add AC to a car that doesn't have it. Cheaper to buy a car with it instead.

Zonda999

Biro wrote: »

I'd go with a Mazda 3 1.6 diesel if you can find one. That engine is a long way ahead of the 1.9 in the Octavia.

Other than noise at idle, in what ways is the 1.6d in the mazda so much better, might i ask?

witless_steve

Is the aircon worth the extra money or is it just like having a sunroof?
Useful when it gets hot but not that useful.

BostonB

witless_steve wrote: »

Is the aircon worth the extra money or is it just like having a sunroof?
Useful when it gets hot but not that useful.

No vastly more useful. AC is very useful on wet steamy days, in the winter, its takes the mositure out of the air, thus keeps your windows perfectly clear without wiping, or opening windows in the rain. Downside its it uses more fuel.

witless_steve

Does AC pull much power out of the engine?
Just wondering because it seems I can get touring in 1.4 or 1.6.
I imagine AC might drain more fuel but would it really slow down performance?

BostonB

Any car I've had you've noticed a slight extra load.

witless_steve

Slight as in when you're bringing home the weekly shopping kind of extra pull?

I don't want to sound like I'm being pedantic about it but I'd really like aircon.
My current car doesn't have aircon and it mists up in no time when the weather is damp. If the AC didn't have a massive pull on the engine then I could take a touring in any engine. If the AC pulls hard I'd need to look for a 1.6.

I've confined my window shopping as it were to online lists like carzone and cbg.ie. If I don't have to be as picky on the engine I make it easier to get the kind of car I'd really like.

By the by I've heard tales of there being a shortage of second hand cars being traded in. I take it this only applies to shiny new 5 year old or less vehicles not worn out 10 year old warhorses.

2 Espressi

After having AC in Rocky, I'd never get a car without it ever again. As mentioed above, it dries the air going through it, so you get no steam or condensation, essential in this climate.
The load isn't so bad, you'll only notice that the engine idles a bit higher.

Of the two cars posted, I'd go for the Skoda, but the 1.9 tdi. Roughtly the same power as the 1.6 (105 vs 102 Bhp for the petrol) but much more torque.

EPM

Get the 1.6 in the 3 - the 1.4 is weak. There wont be a huge difference when using the air con. You might get a few miles to the gallon less but then again the drag from having a window open wont be far behind it...

BJC

Have you considered a Mazda6 Touring instead. Not a hatch obviously but there is a butt load of space in the boot and the mpg is quite good in the 1.8 afaik. AirCon, Traction control and some other fiddly bits are standard.

BostonB

witless_steve wrote: »

Slight as in when you're bringing home the weekly shopping kind of extra pull?....

Man how much shopping do you get?

Would be different in different cars with different engines. I've never noticed it being very significant.

Biro

Zonda999 wrote: »

Other than noise at idle, in what ways is the 1.6d in the mazda so much better, might i ask?

Infinitely more refined, much more evenly spread power delivery, cheaper tax, more power (in the higher powered one, the saloon only had that, the hatch had an option), at least as good fuel economy.

Air con is an excellent addition, and isn't something you can add on later, as it's cost prohibitive. Can be around 5 grand to add it, depending on model.
The standard radio in the 3 is fairly decent, a better installation than most standard radios. It's integrated into the dash, so upgrading probably isn't an option.

Zonda999

Biro wrote: »

Infinitely more refined, much more evenly spread power delivery, cheaper tax, more power (in the higher powered one, the saloon only had that, the hatch had an option), at least as good fuel economy.

The OP better make sure any prospective 3 is the 109bhp version in that case!:)
Fair enough on the road tax on a few year old example but not anymore! As for the power delivery, i rather like that whole "lump of power" feeling you get in the 1.9!:)

vectra

Biro wrote: »

The Mazda 3 is the competitor for the Octavia, they're in the same class. The Mazda has better engines and a much better chassis. It's a more rewarding drive than the Octavia. The Octavia has a bit more room but the 1.6 petrol is poor, the 1.9 diesel is almost as poor.
I'd go with a Mazda 3 1.6 diesel if you can find one. That engine is a long way ahead of the 1.9 in the Octavia.

What??

Mazda 1.6 diesel is better than the VW 1.9 ??
In what respect??

witless_steve

I didn't know mazda made a 1.6 diesel. I've only seen petrol mazda 3's. Are the saloons the only diesels or are there hatch backs too?

colm_mcm

the 1.6 diesel in the Mazda is the same unit as the TDCI in a Focus, the 1.6D in the S40, the 1.6 HDI in the 308 or C4, the diesel engine in the MINI, and countless others who have used this engine

It is far more refined than the VAG 1.9 TDI

I think Noah had a derivative of the 1.9 TDI fitted to the ark.

Zonda999

witless_steve wrote: »

I didn't know mazda made a 1.6 diesel. I've only seen petrol mazda 3's. Are the saloons the only diesels or are there hatch backs too?

Its a Ford/PSA engine really! Afaik, the only diesel engine mazda make themselves is the 2.0td found in the 6

Saloon and Hatch are both available in diesel. This being Ireland though, probably very few hatch diesels around the place

bazz26

vectra wrote: »

What??

Mazda 1.6 diesel is better than the VW 1.9 ??
In what respect??

The Mazda 3 1.6 diesel is the same engine found in the Ford Focus, Volvo S40, Citroen C3/C4/C5, Peugeot 207/308/407 and BMW MINI. It is a 16 valve unit using common rail technology. It is more refined, smoother, quieter and power delivery is more evenly ditributed than the 1.9 TDi unit. The 1.9 TDi was a good engine in it's day but it dates back to the early 1990s, technology along with the competition have moved on since.

OP the Mazda 3 diesel is pretty rare in Ireland, did you look at the Ford Focus diesel? A larger range of models to choose over the Mazda 3 and just as practical. Both the Focus and 3 are the same car underneath.

Subotai

I found myself in the same position last year. I was trying to decide between a Mazda 3 Touring 1.6 diesel or an Octavia 1.9 TDI. I test drove them both extensively, and in the end went with the 3. I found the Octavia to be a bit sluggish, the 3 is lighter, drives better, has much better acceleration, and has more umph! It also has the added benefit of doing about 1000 km on a tank.:)

Zonda999

Subotai wrote: »

It also has the added benefit of doing about 1000 km on a tank.:)

The Octavia will do as well, my uncle has a 1.9TDI DSG and is constantly raving about how he gets a 1000km per tank. I think the Octavia has a better interior as well too IMO

Audioslaven

Brought back a 2008 Mazda 3 1.6 Diesel saloon Ts2 21k miles on clock from uk 13400 cleared. Super car had a 323 before that. Averaging 58 miles to gallon and really nice to drive

deRanged

I've a diesel mazda3, delighted with it.
one thing to watch out for is that there's 2 versions - a 90ps and a 110 ps.
Get the 110, not the 90

witless_steve

Assuming i want to buy my car through some kind of recognised dealer to get some kind of warranty. Where should i be looking online to make sure i give myself the best chance of finding a good car? The idea me driving a diesel sounds interesting but mazda hatchbacks with diesel are rare are there other places i should be looking? I know that the mazda shares the same chassis as the ford focus. But is there much to chose between them? I seem to be posting a lot of questions today. I'm learning a lot from all the posts and i'm very grateful for all your advice.

Audioslaven

I got mine off a main mazda dealer in uk. I went on www.mazda.co.uk as there are used car locator on it. Autotrader as well

deRanged

witless_steve wrote: »

I know that the mazda shares the same chassis as the ford focus. But is there much to chose between them?

yes. sit into both. the cabin in the focus is much smaller - the mazda has way more room.
there's other differences too, but that one made me drop the focus as a consideration instantly.
that's a personal thing though, I've known people go the opposite way.

bazz26

This is a very good site for searching:

www.driving.ie

Biro

Zonda999 wrote: »

Its a Ford/PSA engine really! Afaik, the only diesel engine mazda make themselves is the 2.0td found in the 6

Saloon and Hatch are both available in diesel. This being Ireland though, probably very few hatch diesels around the place

They only make the new 2.2 now in 3 guises.
I'm amazed at how many people on here still think the 1.9 vag unit is the bees knees.

Zonda999

Biro wrote: »

They only make the new 2.2 now in 3 guises.
I'm amazed at how many people on here still think the 1.9 vag unit is the bees knees.

So the diesel in the new 6 is now the PSA engine too! Fair enough, the diesel in the old 6 was very unreliable!

There are still plenty of people who highly rate the VAG 1.9 alright. Probably because of the sheer number of them on the go. They are still at least competitive in the crucial area of fuel economy, if not refinement or power delivery. A bit off topic but i cant wait to see what the Octavia 1.6TDI 105bhp is like. A relative works in a Skoda garage so I'll be trying that one out as soon as its in!:)

bazz26

2.2 diesel in the Mazda 6 is an inhouse unit afaik, not PSA. Available in 125bhp, 163bhp and 185bhp.

witless_steve

To pay for the car change is it better to deal in cash only or will dealers still take a trade in? I've got a 99 1l micra as my current chariot. Would i be better off flogging it privately and buying my next car for cash or could i get a few hundred knocked off the next car with a trade in?

Biro

Zonda999 wrote: »

So the diesel in the new 6 is now the PSA engine too! Fair enough, the diesel in the old 6 was very unreliable!

There are still plenty of people who highly rate the VAG 1.9 alright. Probably because of the sheer number of them on the go. They are still at least competitive in the crucial area of fuel economy, if not refinement or power delivery. A bit off topic but i cant wait to see what the Octavia 1.6TDI 105bhp is like. A relative works in a Skoda garage so I'll be trying that one out as soon as its in!:)

No, it's Mazda's own, which is why I said "they only make the 2.2"!
An excellent engine by all accounts. The new 6 with the 185 diesel engine would be an excellent car. Pity Mazda made such a balls of the interior.
The new 1.6 diesel from VW should be a lot better than the 1.9. The difference between the VAG 2 litre 140 PD and 2 litre 140 CR is very noticable.

Biro

witless_steve wrote: »

To pay for the car change is it better to deal in cash only or will dealers still take a trade in? I've got a 99 1l micra as my current chariot. Would i be better off flogging it privately and buying my next car for cash or could i get a few hundred knocked off the next car with a trade in?

Ask the dealer what their best price is first, with no trade in. Then ask about trading in the Micra. You'll see exactly what they're giving you for it then. Some garages might like to have something sellable like a Micra in their yard. Others won't want it.

witless_steve

Cheers for the advice Biro. Great way to find out how much I'm really going to pay for the change.

I've done another bit of virtual tyre kicking and not all the tourings seems to have air con listed. Is there a particular year this started?

Handy to know so I can properly understand what I'm looking at.

I must say I was very nervous of asking for help from such knowledgable petrol heads but this thread has been packed full of great comments and I've learned a lot from reading the posts.

Are there any dealers in the Munster area that people might recommend as a good place to go looking in the flesh as it were?

I keep seeing Mike O'Dwyer in Limerick coming up on searches for Mazdas.
Anyone did any business with him? His prices seem high but maybe the warranty that comes with it is worth it. I don't know.

EPM

Since it's introduction the Touring had air con, multifunction leather steering wheel, nicer interior trim and rear electric windows on top of the base Comfort spec. For carrying stuff I'd aim for the saloon as the boot is bigger than the hatch's one

witless_steve

Thanks EPM, some dealers are a little short on detail when selling a car and assume you know what comes with that trim level.

deRanged

EPM wrote: »

For carrying stuff I'd aim for the saloon as the boot is bigger than the hatch's one

very true. I switched from a hatch to a saloon and I'm very pleased that I did.
granted stuff like washing machines would be a problem, but that's what vans are for.

O'Briens in Midleton is where I've bought a couple of Mazdas - I'd recommend calling in there. They're a decent bunch.