Not sure about having more children

LegacyUser

My wife and I discussed the possibility of having another child the other night. This has come up a few times now and we're differing in our views. I am very happy at the moment but don't consider myself perfect dad material. I think our lives at the moment are close to perfect, money coming in (not rich but not poor either). Our daughter means everything to both of us. I am more practical about things but my wife sometimes makes decisions without thinking things through. In truth, I don't want another child but she does and keeps bringing it up, this has lead to arguments and I feel guilty afterwards. Am I so bad or completely in the wrong to not want this? If I don't want another child, surely I should be able to say this without feeling like a bad person?

Nevyn

ok what is with not thinking you are a prefect dad material?
Where is that coming from?

LegacyUser

OP here again.....from speaking to other dads, they all seem to say fatherhood is a perfect life, I feel that there are more things I could do to make myself a better dad and I do try to be the best dad I could be. But, sometimes I think that the sacrifices are too much, I know I have to make them (like all fathers) but sometimes I feel that they've gone unnoticed by my wife and I suppose that's where the reluctance to have another child comes from.

I resent being the one to make the sacrifices (have really changed the way I work so that I can spend more time with my daughter and so she does not have to spend long in the creche, have lost contact with lots of friends as I don't go out much anymore, and have practically given up my outside interests and hobbies.)

My relationship with my own father is terrible and I suppose I have worries of turning into him.

thefeatheredcat

OP,

What you said in your 2nd post is what you should be discussing with your wife. And I think you have a lot more talking to do on this subject and you should make your real feelings known.

Fair play to you for making more time for your daughter btw!

If you're not ready for another child, then you're not ready, even if it's because you feel you could not be the best dad possible (personally I think that's quite reasonable and responsible).

Maybe you just have some unresolved issues/feelings with your own father that you need to sort out first?

LegacyUser

OP here again, thanks for taking the time to respond. You're right, now that someone else has said it, it makes sense for me to talk to my wife about the way I resent the way certain things have changed since we've had our daughter. I will talk to her about this, in fairness this is my own fault, she is a good person and wants to see me happy.

My own relationship with my father has certainly clouded my thinking and this will take longer to come to terms with.

Thanks again for the advice. It's good to hear someone else say if you don't feel ready, you're being responsible. I have to say, there is a huge pressure on me as most people (family & friends mostly my wife's) seem to think that adding extra children to the family should be the number one priority for everyone.

Nevyn

You don't have to be your father, if you have issue re him and your childhood and you are worried about having a son as you don't feel you know how to be a good role model for him then I suggest you look at talking to a professional and working through those issues.

Yes once there are children you life changes, they become the prioty and for a while the focus but that doesn't last for ever, I certianly understand the reluctance when you have gotten out of the baby stage to go back to the routine and nappies and how tough the first two years can be but they pass quickly enough.

You need to figure out the root issues as to why you feel the way you do and explore it and explain to your wife and try find away to work on them for your own sake and peace of mind and then try reaching a comprimise with your wife as to expand your family or not.

As for other people sticking their oar in, I would be telling them it is none of thier concern and thier opinion is as welcome as thier presense could be in your bed.

nayorleck114

Unregistered wrote: »

My wife and I discussed the possibility of having another child the other night. This has come up a few times now and we're differing in our views. I am very happy at the moment but don't consider myself perfect dad material. I think our lives at the moment are close to perfect, money coming in (not rich but not poor either). Our daughter means everything to both of us. I am more practical about things but my wife sometimes makes decisions without thinking things through. In truth, I don't want another child but she does and keeps bringing it up, this has lead to arguments and I feel guilty afterwards. Am I so bad or completely in the wrong to not want this? If I don't want another child, surely I should be able to say this without feeling like a bad person?

If you have just 1 child and your wife wants another I would go for it. That way your daughter has a sibling and your wife is happy.

thefeatheredcat

OP,

No worries, but don't go in there laying out the resentment too harshly especially if this isn't something you've approached before. But I'm sure she would be happier to hear how you feel about this rather than harbouring negative feelings on this issue.

You're not your father, you are you.

Don't worry about the pressure...I hope your wife will be understanding of how you feel on this situation, perhaps you just need some reassurance from her?

LegacyUser

OP here again,

Thanks Thaedydal for all the advice. I appreciate it and it does make sense.

However, I don't feel that I need to speak to someone about the issues I have with my own father. It comes down to this - he was father to a large family, didn't bond with any of us really. We could feel that he resented the chores of fatherhood having worked hard all day. To me, it seemed like he sacrificed a lot of his own freedom for us.

I suppose this is going to be difficult for myself and my wife to resolve as she wants one thing and at the moment I'm totally opposed to it.

I know you say the 2 years will fly but I just don't want it. Do any other fathers feel like this or am I totally on my own here?

I know other posters may take me up on the language I use e.g. "chores", "freedom" etc but I don't want to dress this up, I'm saying it exactly as I see and feel it.

CDfm

It seems to me that you like your life and are being pessurised into being a Dad again when for you you have an ideal life.

Dont be so hard on yourself about your parenting skills as long as a child is fed watered and a bed to sleep in they are generally ok. The odd wash and hug does them no harm either.

Now Im not suggesting your wife is bullying you but check out this download questionaire for men and women in relationships and putting a life plan together.

http://www.thatbitchbook.com/due_dilligence.html

Its really about if you have reservations about something that you can express it.

Nevyn

So you feel that your Dad resented all of the things he had to do and seems to made sure it was felt and noticed and you are starting to feel that way / see things that way as well but you don't think you have any out standing issues or carry over from your childhood?

Could it be that you have a slightly skewed idea of what it means to be a Dad due to how your own Dad made it clear he resented his role as a father?

As for not wanting more kids, I completely understand that, I've two, I am so done it's not funny and no way in hell I want to endure having another one and the nappy stages all over again, esp as my youngest is 9.

Ah now here just because his wife wants another child that does not mean he is in an abusive relationship.

herya

I've no experience with children myself but isn't it that the gap between "freedom" and the first child is much bigger than between your first and second? Could it be that your wife sees your opposition to having a second child with her as unreasonable and unexplainable (as you are a father already anyway, no matter whether you decide to have kids again or not), and you can't communicate well because of this?

LegacyUser

OP here again, thanks CDFM.

You've hit the nail on the head almost. I liked my life greatly before our daughter was born and she's now coming to that age where I can get part of it back. I'm not looking for major things, just to be able to play my favourite sport a couple of times a week and to meet old friends just once a month. I'd give all of my money to support my family and don't want any material stuff.

This really is something that is very hard to persuade my wife about.

Just last night, her brother started joking that we should start trying to have another child. Everyone thought this was a great idea. I just wanted to tell him to mind his own business.

Nevyn

Well did you and your wife talk about numbers of children when you were planning your family?
She could be confused and upset as to why you have changed your mind esp if you had both agreed to have two kids or more before ye became parents.

CDfm

Life should be enjoyable to and you do need a life outside your work and family to keep your head straight.

You need time for you stuff and money for you stuff too. I saw something once about budgeting that said pay yourself first given that you posted this

I resent being the one to make the sacrifices (have really changed the way I work so that I can spend more time with my daughter and so she does not have to spend long in the creche, have lost contact with lots of friends as I don't go out much anymore, and have practically given up my outside interests and hobbies.)

and this

I'm not looking for major things, just to be able to play my favourite sport a couple of times a week and to meet old friends just once a month. I'd give all of my money to support my family and don't want any material stuff.

It seems to me that you need to see about putting yourself into the budget a bit more.

LegacyUser

OP here again,

Thanks to everyone who has posted.

OK,I may have some issues with my father and this may be skewing my view of my own parenting abilities. But before I give people a view of me as someone who is having difficulty with fatherhood. I love my daughter and I know she loves me, I love spending time with her and would do anything for her.

My wife and I never discussed how many kids we wanted. We decided to have a child and there was an agreement that it would be a mutual decision to go again if we both wanted to do.

I just find it strange that men who say that's enough kids for me when they have 2 or 3 don't get any strange looks or tut-tuts. But when a guy has one child and says that's enough for me, is perceived as selfish.

herya

Unregistered wrote: »

I just find it strange that men who say that's enough kids for me when they have 2 or 3 don't get any strange looks or tut-tuts. But when a guy has one child and says that's enough for me, is perceived as selfish.

Well possibly because having an only child (on purpose) might be seen as depriving her of siblings.

LegacyUser

OP here again.

Herya, you myay have a point there but what do I do just go ahead with even though it's not what I want and wallow in resentment thereafter.

A previous poster put it very simply, and to be fair he/she was right.

Having another child would make my wife happy and would provide a sibling for my daughter.

But the thing is, I don't want to face into another 2 to 2 years of looking after a baby. I know I will end up totally cut off from the other things I enjoy in my life. I just want to get some of my old life back.

thefeatheredcat

Unregistered wrote: »

It comes down to this - he was father to a large family, didn't bond with any of us really. We could feel that he resented the chores of fatherhood having worked hard all day. To me, it seemed like he sacrificed a lot of his own freedom for us.

Just picking up on this...
OP, is it the case that you're worried also that you won't have the bond with your child, the larger the family becomes? (as well as sacrificing too much and later resenting it)

You can't be expected to sacrifice an entire social life; It's good to be there for your daughter, but she will grow up, have her own friends and have her own life....so be prepared for that.

You still need your social outlet (escape time from work and family stuff) for you to be happy, to have time for yourself and what you've posted is quite reasonable. If you sacrifice too much, your daughter a teen and not interested in spending time with dad, that could turn you to a workaholic as you've lost friendships and lost chances to enjoy hobbies...at worst, anyway.

I think it's more of a balance between work life, family life and social/me life.

Does your wife work or is she a stay at home mom?

edit: Having interests outside work and home could actually be better as this could be good bonding time with your daughter in the future, eg, a sport your both enjoy.... and will promote her to have friends and interests outside home/school life

Splendour

Unregistered wrote: »

OP here again, thanks CDFM.

You've hit the nail on the head almost. I liked my life greatly before our daughter was born and she's now coming to that age where I can get part of it back. I'm not looking for major things, just to be able to play my favourite sport a couple of times a week and to meet old friends just once a month. I'd give all of my money to support my family and don't want any material stuff.

This really is something that is very hard to persuade my wife about.

Just last night, her brother started joking that we should start trying to have another child. Everyone thought this was a great idea. I just wanted to tell him to mind his own business.

Can't see how having another child should infringe on your social life? I remember when I was married I practically begged my husband to go out so I could have some time to myself. Now I'm separated, this is much more difficult, but if there are two of you there it shouldn't be a big deal...

Nevyn

Unregistered wrote: »

But the thing is, I don't want to face into another 2 to 2 years of looking after a baby. I know I will end up totally cut off from the other things I enjoy in my life. I just want to get some of my old life back.

I understand that believe me there are days I do find myself wishing the years away for when my own two are independent of me, but the thing is I know that I will get there and I can't be wishing my kids childhoods away when I have to be doing my best to ensure they have good childhoods and that I prepare them for when they are independent of me.

You need to find away to compromise on this willingly other wise the resentment will build and could damage your relationship with your wife and children in the same way your father's resentment damaged his relationship with you or you may find that your wife resents yourselfish as she may come to see it.

I really do think that counselling for yourself to explore the issue and couples counselling around the issue might help you both as an impartial setting and a facilitator can do wonders to get you both to open up and listen to each other about the issues the surround you choosing or not choosing to have another child.

LegacyUser

thefeatheredcat wrote: »

Just picking up on this...
OP, is it the case that you're worried also that you won't have the bond with your child, the larger the family becomes? (as well as sacrificing too much and later resenting it)

You can't be expected to sacrifice an entire social life; It's good to be there for your daughter, but she will grow up, have her own friends and have her own life....so be prepared for that.

You still need your social outlet (escape time from work and family stuff) for you to be happy, to have time for yourself and what you've posted is quite reasonable. If you sacrifice too much, your daughter a teen and not interested in spending time with dad, that could turn you to a workaholic as you've lost friendships and lost chances to enjoy hobbies...at worst, anyway.

I think it's more of a balance between work life, family life and social/me life.

Does your wife work or is she a stay at home mom?

edit: Having interests outside work and home could actually be better as this could be good bonding time with your daughter in the future, eg, a sport your both enjoy.... and will promote her to have friends and interests outside home/school life

OP here again, no I'm not worried about the bonding aspect at all. I have bonded well with my daughter and know that if another child came along, bonding would not be an issue. I make an extra effort to pay attention to my daughter and let her know that I love her, probably because my father was emotionally distant with me.

My wife works fulltime.

LegacyUser

Splendour wrote: »

Can't see how having another child should infringe on your social life? I remember when I was married I practically begged my husband to go out so I could have some time to myself. Now I'm separated, this is much more difficult, but if there are two of you there it shouldn't be a big deal...

OP here again. I have never been begged to leave the house. I have given extra notice of going out to spend time at my favourite sport and yet when the time came, I was let know that it was a problem. As regards socialising, any time, my friends have called I've had to put them off because to try and meet up is not worth the bother at home.

rhyolite

herya wrote: »

Well possibly because having an only child (on purpose) might be seen as depriving her of siblings.

no, killing her siblings would be depriving her of siblings. deciding that, 'no, thats enough' is a decision that adults make both for themselves and for their children.

unless of course you feel that having siblings is less important that having parents you don't want them?

OP, its entirely your decision, and you've made it for entirely the right reasons - you don't want more children. your relationship with your father is irrelevent, if it was an issue it would have presented itself within the environment you've provided for your daughter, it hasn't, ergo it won't.

even if you had no issues with the way that you and your wife had managed your lives once your daughter arrived, you have the absolute right of veto over your fertility - its why civilised countries have Rape laws.

'no' means no, it doesn't mean 'unless you nag me' or 'unless your family start sticking their noses in', its just 'no'. if a woman had posted this there would be no argument, how odd that you don't get the same courtesy...

if your wife has a problem with 'no, i don't want anymore children' (ladies, substitute 'anal sex' or 'swinging parties' for 'children' and you'll see my point) then you probably ought to reconsider the worth of a relationship where respect for your views is so lacking.

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

I understand that believe me there are days I do find myself wishing the years away for when my own two are independent of me, but the thing is I know that I will get there and I can't be wishing my kids childhoods away when I have to be doing my best to ensure they have good childhoods and that I prepare them for when they are independent of me.

You need to find away to compromise on this willingly other wise the resentment will build and could damage your relationship with your wife and children in the same way your father's resentment damaged his relationship with you or you may find that your wife resents yourselfish as she may come to see it.

I really do think that counselling for yourself to explore the issue and couples counselling around the issue might help you both as an impartial setting and a facilitator can do wonders to get you both to open up and listen to each other about the issues the surround you choosing or not choosing to have another child.

Thaedydal, OP here again. If I'm honest, I have to admit that I see counselling around this issue as going one way - we go to counselling, I talk about my unwillingness to have another child, the counsellor explores this and we all agree that my unwillingness is unreasonable and then we go and have another child. While I confine myself to more years of getting up, parenting, going to work, coming home, parenting, going to bed. To me this would be unbearable.

CDfm

Thaedydal wrote: »

I really do think that counselling for yourself to explore the issue and couples counselling around the issue might help you both as an impartial setting and a facilitator can do wonders to get you both to open up and listen to each other about the issues the surround you choosing or not choosing to have another child.

If you can't talk then counselling is a real option and you should look at it perhaps if you have occasion to go to your GP you could ask.

Its a huge decision but you need to learn to respect yourself too.

LegacyUser

rhyolite wrote: »

no, killing her siblings would be depriving her of siblings. deciding that, 'no, thats enough' is a decision that adults make both for themselves and for their children.

unless of course you feel that having siblings is less important that having parents you don't want them?

OP, its entirely your decision, and you've made it for entirely the right reasons - you don't want more children. your relationship with your father is irrelevent, if it was an issue it would have presented itself within the environment you've provided for your daughter, it hasn't, ergo it won't.

even if you had no issues with the way that you and your wife had managed your lives once your daughter arrived, you have the absolute right of veto over your fertility - its why civilised countries have Rape laws.

'no' means no, it doesn't mean 'unless you nag me' or 'unless your family start sticking their noses in', its just 'no'. if a woman had posted this there would be no argument, how odd that you don't get the same courtesy...

if your wife has a problem with 'no, i don't want anymore children' (ladies, substitute 'anal sex' or 'swinging parties' for 'children' and you'll see my point) then you probably ought to reconsider the worth of a relationship where respect for your views is so lacking.

Ryholite, OP here. Thank you for your words of advice. Thank you to everyone. I have to say this whole issue is eating at me. I love my wife, I love my daughter. Some of the other things that I speak of involve my wife, I want to spend more time with her one to one as well.

I suppose I feel like I'm on the defensive so it's quite a relief to hear someone say that this is my choice as well and that my view should be listened to and respected.

Nevyn

Unregistered wrote: »

OP here again. I have never been begged to leave the house. I have given extra notice of going out to spend time at my favourite sport and yet when the time came, I was let know that it was a problem. As regards socialising, any time, my friends have called I've had to put them off because to try and meet up is not worth the bother at home.

OK the not worth the bother at home means there is something wrong in your relationship with your wife and how you are communicating and the expectations you both have re how you both should be spending your time.

Parents are entitled to have some time outside of work and family time and time spent doing chores in the house and time as a couple.

We need that space to be ourselves, in fairness it has to be about compromise and that goes both ways, like buggering off for 16 hours to play golf every second weekend may be seen as unfair if the other parent doesn't have any interests out side of the home or feels that the love life of the couple is being neglected.

You need to figure out what are the reasons that your wife is having trouble with to make you going out be such a bother and address them they could be a range of things from resentment to insecurity or just plain feeling it is unfair as she has a set idea about what parents are meant to be doing.

I've had that one, took a while to get it through my co parents head that yes mammy's do go away for the occasional weekend to play Dungeons and Dragons with a bunch of other gamers and mammys come back a lot happier after the break and are able to cope better.

There are things I simply can't do due to time and money restraints because I have young kids and I have accept that and that I can't keep up with those who don't have kids and that is how life is for a while, but parents can't utterly sacrifice who they are once they have kids, it would drive anyone nuts.

herya

Unregistered wrote: »

But the thing is, I don't want to face into another 2 to 2 years of looking after a baby. I know I will end up totally cut off from the other things I enjoy in my life. I just want to get some of my old life back.

You need time for yourself which is fair enough and only natural. You don't want another kid as it would take it away from you.

But isn't there any chance of talking it through with your wife and explaining it very clearly to her that you could only agree under the condition that caring for a child will always leave you one or two nights a week free (she can get the same in return)? From all that I know about my family it is perfectly reasonable and realistic agreement and each of the parents (working parents, I hasten to add) can have at least a day off for their hobby while the other one takes care of the child. You mention that you haven't seen your pals in months, is your wife so unreasonable that you can't negotiate something like this? Maybe you have other reasons not to have kids with her then?

Dunno I might be too influenced by what my gran used to say, that having one child only when there no medical/financial reasons and the family is happy together might backfire badly later on. She has lost her first child and luckily they were young enough to have more children but she said that if she'd lost her only child and had no hopes for more their marriage would have not survived, they were so badly hit.

My other gran used to say that kids are like cats, when you have one you can just as well have two, but that's another story

herya

Thaedydal wrote: »

OK the not worth the bother at home means there is something wrong in your relationship with your wife and how you are communicating and the expectations you both have re how you both should be spending your time.

I agree - if you can't get any time out and socialising at home is not an option it certainly does not sound like a good and reasonable setup.

LegacyUser

herya wrote: »

You need time for yourself which is fair enough and only natural. You don't want another kid as it would take it away from you.

But isn't there any chance of talking it through with your wife and explaining it very clearly to her that you could only agree under the condition that caring for a child will always leave you one or two nights a week free (she can get the same in return)? From all that I know about my family it is perfectly reasonable and realistic agreement and each of the parents (working parents, I hasten to add) can have at least a day off for their hobby while the other one takes care of the child. You mention that you haven't seen your pals in months, is your wife so unreasonable that you can't negotiate something like this? Maybe you have other reasons not to have kids with her then?

Dunno I might be too influenced by what my gran used to say, that having one child only when there no medical/financial reasons and the family is happy together might backfire badly later on. She has lost her first child and luckily they were young enough to have more children but she said that if she'd lost her only child and had no hopes for more their marriage would have not survived, they were so badly hit.

My other gran used to say that kids are like cats, when you have one you can just as well have two, but that's another story

Herya, OP here again. To be fair to my wife, the last year has been particularly difficult. Her own family suffered a tragedy, with the result that we spend a lot of our spare time travelling to see her own relatives to support them. This takes up quite a bit of spare time so on the other weekends, it's catch up time with household stuff.

Once things settle down a bit, your suggestion about taking time out would be much more acceptable. Thanks for the advice.

LegacyUser

OP here again. I just want to say that I appreciate all the replies to my post. You've given me a lot to think about. Out of courtesy to you all, I wanted to let you know that I'm signing off for the night, and will think about everything you've said. I will come back to this thread tomorrow. Thank you all very much.

Nevyn

If there has been a death in the family then you will often get people thinking about they cycle of life and new life and looking for the comfort that life goes on and that there are new additions to the family. Often people don't make that connection themselves as to why they are thinking that way.

LegacyUser

Thaedydal wrote: »

If there has been a death in the family then you will often get people thinking about they cycle of life and new life and looking for the comfort that life goes on and that there are new additions to the family. Often people don't make that connection themselves as to why they are thinking that way.

OP here again. Thank you again to everyone for their words of advice. Thaedyal, yes there has been a death in my wife's family in very tragic circumstances. Looking at your words, I can see now that my wife is looking at our own family as a secure place and only wants to make it happier for all of us and I know she has taken great comfort in our daughter during this difficult time.

I've decided to give this some more thought over the next few weeks and when I can get the words right in my head, I will discuss it with her again. I'm keen not to upset her, so I will have to think long and hard about this.

Looking back over my own words, I can now see what many have picked up, that I have some issues with my own father and that this is causing me to look negatively at my own parenting abilities. I will seek counselling for this privately.

I hope that I make the right decision for everyone.

Again, thank you all for your advice, it's been a huge help to me.

herya

That's great OP and may I say that you show great consideration for your family circumstances and do not make important decisions lightly. Well done.

Perhaps you could think about the possibility of having another baby a little later - from what you describe you had a hard time recently emotionally and time wise, also you could use a little break for yourself as could your wife. If your wife comes to terms with her loss, your family visits won't have to be so frequent and you'll get your social life back on track as your daughter grows up you might be less resentful towards the idea of more parenting.

Thaedydal might be right in her last post and also - again something I have not experienced myself but heard of - in difficult times like grievance etc some women take great comfort in a new baby, even its physical presence, smell, sounds especially if they have had other children before and liked the baby period. Your wife might be (consciously or unconsciously) looking for such comfort if she experienced it with your daughter as a baby. Maybe she appears clingy and doesn't want you to spend time away from home for the same reason?

Well anyway best of luck!

Nevyn

I hope things work out for you and your family it is wonderful to see someone who is willing to look and figure out what is going on in thier life and the different factors that maybe effecting them so that they can make the best informed choices.

LegacyUser

OP here again. Herya and Thaedydal, thank you both again.

Everyone who posted here has helped me think more clearly about this. There is more than one issue and I now see that. I want to thank you for helping me see that there are a number of things I have to come to terms with and then resolve.

It's over to me now. Thanks again.