Quieter grinder

Clinker

I currently use two Iberital MC2s: one for espresso and one for my plunger pot (a.k.a. French press). They're great, but very noisy: in fact I'm inclined to use industrial earmuffs when using them (but I use the muffs when hoovering too, so maybe I'm just like that!).

Anyway, can anyone recommend a good grinder which isn't (anything like) as noisy? And what would it cost?

Mr Magnolia

The Macap M4 (doser) and MC4 (doserless) are both a lot quieter than the MC2, they're more expensive though. I picked mine up from espressocoffeeshop.com I went for the stainless, stepless version which pushed the price up to €350 though you should get them cheaper if you're prepared to compromise. This would be what I'd advise for the espresso.

This is my initial thoughts on the grinder when I got it set up. I'm very happy with it now, it does retain some grinds but they all do. The 2 things to remember are the rest for the portafilter and the auto grind switch. Some beans clump, some don't at all.

For the filter, go for the bodum antigua if Java Rep. are still doing them on special at €80/90. Noiser than the MC4 but still a good deal quieter than the MC2 iirc. It also has a timer so you can press the button and walk away from the noise. I only put the volume of beans into the hopper that I need so I push the button and walk over to the kettle.

Clinker

Anyone?

I've seen the Mahlkönig K30 ES recommended as a very quiet grinder, but it costs £1000 on hasbean, which is a bit more than I had in mind!

Mr Magnolia

I somehow deleted my earlier post, it's back up now anyway Clinker

llatsni

I'll buy an MC2 off you if it helps you on your way to reduced-decibel-grinding

Clinker

llatsni wrote: »

I'll buy an MC2 off you if it helps you on your way to reduced-decibel-grinding

Thanks llatsni: if I make a move I will certainly be interested in your offer. But no grinder (however loud) leaves until another has taken its place!

Slaphead07

could you not just turn the hifi up? Hah? HAH? :cool:

Clinker

Slaphead07 wrote: »

could you not just turn the hifi up? Hah? HAH? :cool:

[earmuffs]What's that you said?[/earmuffs]

Clinker

Here's where I am.

ch2008 has recommended the Mahlkönig Vario (€316). The Mahlkönig range seem to have a reputation for being good on the quietness front. He suggested that Anfim and Mazzer grinders would also be worth considering.

Mr Magnolia has suggested the Macap MC4 which is described on www.casabarista.nl as geluidsarm which linguistic guesswork tells me is probably Dutch for "low noise". It's €329 or so, depending on choices.

I think I'll probably start by replacing the espresso grinder. RE*AC*TOR was not impressed by the Vario as a filter grinder, but he thought it was pretty good for espresso, despite large shards being visible in pucks. The Macap MC4 seems like a good bet too. Which should I get? Anyone have experience of both, to campare the loudness? Any other suggestions?

donnacha

Clinker - If you do sell up one of those iberital's then do let us know. As luck would have it my awful krups burr that I gave to the inlaws gave up this morning. I've been using the rocky myself and know the inlaws wouldn't dream of forking out €300 on a grinder - a second hand model is the only solution to me enjoying the good stuff when in their house.

llatsni

hey donnacha, oi! i got there first

@Clinker: I have read the macap m4 is quiet alright, but as always it's just a subjective opinion, and not an objective assessment relative to any other grinder.

I've used the Vario and its a good grinder... but perhaps lives a little in the overpriced-gimmicky-style-item sector for my liking, can't recall it being especially quiet... but then I've never heard the Iberital.

If anyone's interested we could do an controlled sound-pressure-level test of a bunch of grinders, I have the sound gear, you supply the grinders????

donnacha

No bother llatsni - post my post I checked that java republic deal - €70.73 for Bodum Antigua including 2 bags of beans. Order placed a few minutes ago

llatsni

donnacha wrote: »

€70.73 for Bodum Antigua including 2 bags of beans.

sweet deal... will take a look myself!

Mr Magnolia

llatsni wrote: »

@Clinker: I have read the macap m4 is quiet alright, but as always it's just a subjective opinion, and not an objective assessment relative to any other grinder.

I've used them both and I can tell you the macap is a lot quieter than the MC2

RE*AC*TOR

I think the Vario was quieter than my Macap.

No, it's not great for filter, but then again most espresso grinders aren't. It's just in this case certain people were claiming it was something it wasn't.

It's probably no worse than any other flat burr home grinder for filter.

Clinker

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

I think the Vario was quieter than my Macap.

No, it's not great for filter, but then again most espresso grinders aren't. It's just in this case certain people were claiming it was something it wasn't.

It's probably no worse than any other flat burr home grinder for filter.

Interesting! I'm coming around to the idea of getting the Vario as my espesso grinder: it seems to be the quietest.

What about my French press grinder?

• Should I use the Vario for that as well?
• Would the Bodum Antigua be better? (And is it quiet?)
• Or is there some other quiet grinder that would be best for this use?

Thanks for all the help: I'm hoping to make purchase decisions soon!

RE*AC*TOR

My gut would say for FP the Antigua produces a more uniform grind.

I wouldn't bet my house on it though. Haven't done a side by side comparison, and the Antigua becomes limited if you want to do finer filter grinds.

I myself am buying a Mahlkonig Tanzania for my French Press / filter needs, but I'm guessing that's not quite what you had in mind.

Clinker

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

My gut would say for FP the Antigua produces a more uniform grind.

I wouldn't bet my house on it though. Haven't done a side by side comparison, and the Antigua becomes limited if you want to do finer filter grinds.

I myself am buying a Mahlkonig Tanzania for my French Press / filter needs, but I'm guessing that's not quite what you had in mind.

Nice! There was a part of me that thought I should go all-out and get a Mahlkönig Guatemala for FP



but they seem to come in at >€2000! That would be injecting my hi-fi spending habits into my newly-acquired coffee mania! I'm assuming the Tanzania has a nice clean grind profile: what does it cost?

Based on what you say, my gut feeling would be to get the Vario and see how it goes for FP: it doesn't sound as though the Antigua would be dramatically better. It is cheap, though.

Speaking of cheapness, and going OT: I was in Brown Thomas today, and the Gaggia Classic is still only €300! Last few days of the sale: ends this weekend!

hshortt

Hey Clinker, what's the best price you've found for the Vario? I'm thinking to upgrade my grinder too.

Cheers

Clinker

hshortt wrote: »

Hey Clinker, what's the best price you've found for the Vario? I'm thinking to upgrade my grinder too.

Cheers

Coffee hit list it at £316, but it's out of stock. When I rang marco, they quoted €341 + VAT = €414.32 ~ £355. I'd be glad to hear of a better price!

davej

I too am interested a grinder of the same calibre you are looking at Clinker..
I think I'm settling on a Macap M4 but the Mahkonig Vario looks good too. I'm open to alternative suggestions of course !

My general impression is that the M4 is first and foremost an espresso grinder, but i'm presuming it can handle coarser grinds competently ?
It really would be great to have a machine that can easily switch between course and fine grinding without needing to dial in again...the Vario seems to promise this but there are certainly question marks over this claim. It's also my understanding that a newer version of the Vario has been released that addresses some of the teething problems of the first version (on which many of the early reviews were based on).

From the horses mouth

The main problem with the Vario is that it appears to be out of stock (at least in the UK)


It seems since the dawn of time there has been a debate over whether doser or doserless is better. I guess ultimately it comes down to personal preference and the quirks of a particular grinder. But since I don't have much experience with grinders, I don't really know what my "preference" is.

From what I gather from reading various threads, regarding the Macap, RE*AC*TOR has the doser model and Mr. Magnolia has the doserless? Can you guys shed any light on the pros and cons of each type and why you chose one over the other ?

I think I am leaning towards the stepless doser model. I am not so concerned about wasting coffee (chances are beans will go stale on occasion anyway, so it will get wasted one way or another). I would like to minimize mess and clumping as much as possible. The doserless M4 seems to be more suited to bulk grinding into a bag (at least that's what it was originally designed for) and I've read a few threads on other sites where people did not like the doserless version.

davej

RE*AC*TOR

The stepless Macap would be completely impractical for switching between coarse and fine grinds.

The doser improves distribution (breaks up clumps), and for me reduces mess. A doser would be a PITA if you want to do non-espresso grinds though. Very little clearance beneath it for a receptacle.

davej

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

The stepless Macap would be completely impractical for switching between coarse and fine grinds.

The doser improves distribution (breaks up clumps), and for me reduces mess. A doser would be a PITA if you want to do non-espresso grinds though. Very little clearance beneath it for a receptacle.

Well yes, I wouldn't attempt to regularly switch between grinds on a stepless Macap (or even a stepped one for that matter). But your point about the space under the doser is duly noted

davej

Clinker

While waiting for the Mahlkönig Vario to become available again, I just bought a Mahlkönig Guatemala on eBay! I wonder will it solve my problems? Of course it remains to be seen whether

1. it arrives
2. it works
3. it can be used for espresso and FP
4. it fits in my kitchen!

Doodee

This mean your selling an MC2?


We need a new grinder here in work, too many taunts when using our hand mills

Clinker

If/when the Guatemala arrives and works, then I will be selling an MC2. Or two of them, depending on how it goes!

Watch this space!

Clinker

I finally have my Mahlkönig Guatemala in my kitchen. Actually I thought I was never going to get it, but the seller had sent it to my work address, despite my repeated request to send it to my home address! I returned after academic holidays yesterday to finds it had been waiting for me for two weeks! To think of all the emails I had to compose in German asking the vendor what had happened.

Man, but this is a big grinder! And heavy! I remember seeing them in German supermarkets 30 years ago, but I'd forgotten how big they are. This of course gives it very low WAF.

My particular one may have been one of the ones I saw in a German supermarket all those years ago: it looks very old, and is very dirty. It works like blazes though: that's one powerful motor. And fast! It takes no time to get through those beans. A bit of a jolt to start with, then pretty quiet for a coffee grinder. Much quieter than my Iberital MC2s.

I'm hoping it will be accepted into the kitchen and I'll get it cleaned up and adjusted and lubricated. (Helpful set of videos on the US Mahlkönig site if you're thinking of something similar.)

I got it for €161 + €29.90 p&p on German eBay, which has a section devoted to coffee grinders, where heavy-duty Mahlkönigs show up frequently. Many go for more than mine did, many are much newer. Other makes (Mazzer, Anfim) show up there to as do antique, retro and hand grinders. Disadvantages are that the sellers expect payment by bank transfer, to send to Germany and to communicate in German. However when I contacted my seller she had no problem taking PayPal and sending to Ireland ("though that will of course be more expensive"), but I did have to work through my rusty but serviceable German.

Doodee

Heh, Good to hear Clinker.

Will you be documenting the restortation at all? Keep us posted if you are.
I've had the same issues when buying hardware from German sites, they all prefer Bank transfer 0_0

Enjoy the grind.

Clinker

My taciturn eBay seller tells me that she got the Guatemala about two years ago from a Bäckerei (mmm, German pastries) which closed down because the owners were over 70. They had taken the business over from their parents, so my grinder could be very old!

@Doodee: I'm not sure what documentation I can do on the restoration: it needs cleaning, adjustment and lubrication, but none of these will show up well in photographs.

It will be interesting to see what the burrs are like when I finally get round to dismantling it. It actually came with its original instruction sheets (in German only) in an ancient waxed paper envelope, and from these I see that polished parts can be refreshed with the use of a soft cloth with "Wiener Kalk". Wiener Kalk turns out to be Vienna lime, which is a very fine chalk powder used for polishing metals. The lacquered and the plastic parts are only to be wiped with a soft cloth. Stuck-on dirt can be removed with "PRIL-Wasser" if necessary. It turns out that "Pril" is a German brand of washing-up liquid (originally powder) which first appeared in 1958, so that's the oldest my Guatemala can be!

BTW, I'd be glad to know where I can get Vienna lime, if anyone knows...

Clinker

Testing:

The Guatemala is really excellent for French Press, a much cleaner cup than with the MC2. I was always known among family and friends for making a good FP, and one of the joys of bring inducted into proper coffee making (by ch2008 when I bought his Gaggia Classic and MC2) was to find how much better FP could be with freshly ground dated-roast coffee. I had always found it to have a slightly off (meaty!) taste together with some bitterness. Now these attributes are gone, and I'm experiencing the variety of coffees available on the internet. Now the Guatemala has brought it to a new level!

For espresso there is good news and bad news. The good news is that it's easy to go from coarse to fine and back again with the Guatemala, and repeatably get the same espresso grind. So it could be a dual-purpose grinder, and I could sweeten the pill (for my wife) of having the monstrous yoke in the kitchen by reducing the number of grinders to one. The bad news is that it seems to generate a lot of static in the fine grind, so that the texture of the grinds seems quite different to what I get from the MC2: stickier: you'd swear they were a little wet, but they aren't. This of course means severe clumping, resulting in channeling most of the time. This isn't good (especially with a naked PF: coffee sprays everywhere!) and my feeling is that my shots are better with the Guatemala when there's no channeling, but not as good (as well as messy) when there is, which is most of the time. Frustrating!!

Anyway, I probably have to solve the static problem or sell the Guatemala again, which would be a pity as it shows such promise! And makes such a big statement! I'm wondering if earthing the metal spout would do the trick, and, if so, what the best way to accomplish this would be. Any suggestions?

Gran Hermano

Time for the Weiss Distribution Technique? Might be worth a punt.

Nothing worse than the naked portafilter spurting coffee sideways onto clean stainless steel

Clinker

Thanks for that: I'd heard of WDT but never saw a clear description before.

Mr Magnolia

I'd resent paying hundreds for a grinder only to have to get out an empty yoghurt pot and a cocktail stick, still, if that's what it takes.

Your grinder spout will already be earthed through the frame of the machine.

I've found that some beans clump more than others and some not at all. For the most part it isn't much of a problem for me.

Clinker

I've had pretty mixed results with WDT, so now the Mighty Mahlkönig is doing the plunger pot grinding and I'm back to one of the Iberital MC2s (and ear muffs) for espresso. Don't worry: I haven't gone sane yet--- I've just bought a Mazzer Super Jolly on eBay!! I can't wait for that to arrive (eek! my wife doesn't know yet:eek:).

Clinker

llatsni took one of the Iberital MC2s last night, and like magic, the Super Jolly arrived to take its place this morning. (Note to self: must stop buying grinders on eBay!)

Can't wait to get it home and see how/if it works!

Doodee

Nice. Did you get Silver or Black?

Clinker

The pictures on eBay were of a black one, so I assume that's what it is: I'm not opening the box until I get home. When my wife sees it, I'll be getting boxed!

(She loves coffee, but she won't be happy about a second big grinder in the kitchen!)

Clinker

When opened the huge box the Super Jolly arrived in, I found that it was in another box inside (a Pampers box!) lightly padded with newspaper. In a plastic bag were hundreds of shards into which the hopper had been smashed by the massive weight of the grinder (a bit like putting an egg loose in a box with a concrete block). The hopper choker was in two bits as well, and the hopper magnet and ring were in among the shards, but intact. I see I can buy these bits online, but I'm contacting the seller to negotiate a refund of the cost of doing so.

I hope that's the whole extent of the damage: I wonder if I can run it without the hopper to check (and is that safe?).

It is indeed black (I would have liked the red one!) but rather scuffed from its travels.

Once I'd acquainted myself with this sorry state of affairs my wife came home and acquainted me with her views on the arrival of another large coffee grinder! :eek:

Doodee

Ouch. Double Ouch in fact.

Will it take long to get the parts? I'd imagine it should be ok getting a part refund, especially when you threaten logging a paypal dispute

Mr Magnolia

Balls. If they packed it arse-ways then the should sort you out.

Clinker

According to coffeehit, the Super Jolly will take the hopper from the Mazzer Mini, which will be an improvement on the massive 1.2kg hopper which got smashed: I might have made that replacement anyway, so it's not a total loss. I also took the opportunity to order new burrs, which will undoubtedly be needed. UPS have picked up the order from coffee hit, so the parts are on their way!

I saw on Coffee Geek that it is possible to run the Super Jolly without a hopper: some people do it to save space. There's quite a lot of room in the throat, which is just the right diameter to accommodate a standard tamper. Put in 40g of beans, put a nice heavy tamper on top and away you go! Do you know what? It's the quietest grinder I've ever heard! Score! Unfortunately I haven't persuaded a suitably fine grind out of it yet, but we'll get there.

After some discussion, my eBay seller now tells me that the German delivery company (Hermes-Paket) are liable for the damage, not her. I've contacted them, but only received an automated reply so far! :mad: Anyway, the original hopper was under £30 on coffeehit, so that's all I could reasonably claim. I'm not too worried!

davej

In other news, it seems the Mahlkonig Vario is back in stock (at least at coffeehit.co.uk as of last Friday). I've ordered one and just got shipping confirmation !

davej

Clinker

Damn! Just when I've bought my stuff for the Super Jolly from Coffee Hit and am so far into the big coffee grinders that there's no going back. Probably the Vario is all I ever needed! This is what I get for being so impulsive.

BTW, coffeehit say: Only 1 left, so lots of people have been patiently waiting (unlike me!) and are now snapping them up!!

I wonder would my wife notice another grinder? The Vario is quite small, and I only have three at the moment!

Doodee

Clinker wrote: »

Damn! Just when I've bought my stuff for the Super Jolly from Coffee Hit and am so far into the big coffee grinders that there's no going back. Probably the Vario is all I ever needed! This is what I get for being so impulsive.

BTW, coffeehit say: Only 1 left, so lots of people have been patiently waiting (unlike me!) and are now snapping them up!!

I wonder would my wife notice another grinder? The Vario is quite small, and I only have three at the moment!

Heh, If you need to get rid of one let me know.

Maybe spring her with a surprise before surprising her with another grinder. It's always good to have a buffer

Mr Magnolia

Clinker wrote: »

I wonder would my wife notice another grinder? The Vario is quite small, and I only have three at the moment!

Buy it for her for Christmas :pac:

Clinker

A quick update: coffeehit got the hopper and other bits (including new burrs) to me within a week. After many exchanged messages in German, I eventually opened a PayPal dispute through eBay and the seller paid up €30, which was about what the new hopper cost from coffeehit.

I finally got round to installing the new burrs last night: I've to try them, but I'm hoping they'll cure the clumping I've been experiencing: I thought a doser would cure that anyway?

Of course after missing Grinderman's Brewtus III, I have espresso machine upgradeitis! I see there are some Vibiemme Domobars on German eBay...

Doodee

forgot to post this up until now.

I took a snap of Clinkers set up when collecting the grinder from him.
See attached

Clinker

Thanks Doodee: it's grinder city at my house!

Slaphead07

Doodee wrote: »

I took a snap of Clinkers set up when collecting the grinder from him.
See attached

Is that a jar of Maxwell House I see in the reflection? :rolleyes:

Slaphead07

Clinker wrote: »

I have espresso machine upgradeitis!

First dibs on your current machine. Of course timing will be everything here C!

ch2008

Wow, thats a serious bit of kit, didnt take you long!:pac: