To bulk or cut?

6Pac Shakur

Hi all!

Im a newbie thats not quite sure where to start. Basically I joined a gym to get myself back in order after work and college has turned me to a wheezing lump of jelly . I am male, 5' 11 and 200lbs. I have a goal of being 185 - 190lbs with low bodyfat. I realise a sedentary lifestyle has withered a lot of muscle. So do I bulk first pushing my weight up further to build more muscle or just lift heavy and watch my diet to lose the fat while building the muscle? If anyone could shed some light on which road to take please it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Zamboni

My personal opinion would be drop the body fat first and worry about muscle later.
The lower bodyfat will give the impression of gained muscle anyway as you get more defined.
Bulking = Eating ****e with a purpose

papajimsmooth

I was in a pretty similar situation as yourself at the start of the summer and the only advice i can give you is to go for a cut initially. If your just starting out you will add muscle pretty easy and your body can use the fat stores for energy just make sure your getting enough protein to allow for repairs and growth. focus on heavy compound lifts and the weight will drop of you (im down about a stone and am a lot stronger aswell now). I figure i will have to make a choice on whether to cut or bulk at some stage but not for a few months. Best of luck with it.

Transform

just drop body fat and gain muscle - there is no 'bulk' or 'cut' they are just terms bodybuiliders use so for someone like yourself just focus on getting diet tight and lifting weights.

whats your current diet and training - the more detail the better.

Roper

Based upon what I see, there is no such thing as cutting, as pretty much everyone I've seen who has gone on "a bulk" has pretty much stayed there. The "cut" lasts a few days then they reckon they need "a bit more mass" and off they go bulking again.

So clean up the diet and train hard.

jordybb

In my views you must drop your fat first then try to muscle up your body .....

**Timbuk2**

A lot of people make the mistake of joining the gym first and sticking to weights, neglecting the cardio.

It's a schoolboy mistake, but as a result a lot of people can be muscly but not fit at all. It is much more important to improve your fitness than it is to improve your strength (although this too has some importance). With improved fitness, you lead a more healthy, more comfortable and longer life with a reduced risk of heart disease and other problems caused by being overweight.
With being very muscly but not being very fit, your heart isn't as well developed than it would be if you were fit. With a lot of people, they stop weightlifting when they get older as their bodies are not able to keep up with it, or their lives are too busy or whatever. Excess muscle can turn to fat as people can stop muscle training but not make significant enough cuts in their diet to compensate. This can lead to being overweight, which causes heart problems and can lower one's life expectancy.

However, strength training is still important, but it shouldn't be done in isolation without cardio. For example, properly executed deadlifts can help with back posture, which can reduce the chances of getting back related injuries (people who sit at computers all day or in an office all day are prone to these back injuries).

Long story short, you should prioritise losing weight over building muscle, but still have a balance so you do both cardio work and strength training.

PS: There are some people who concentrate solely on weight lifting because they believe that cardio reduces muscle. This isn't true. It's true that extensive cardio can reduce muscle slightly, but only very large amounts of cardio (e.g. triathlon/marathon/ironman/300km cycle etc etc) will have an effect. Otherwise the effects cardio has on muscle loss is neglicable.

Transform

6Pac Shakur wrote: »

Hi all!

Im a newbie thats not quite sure where to start. Basically I joined a gym to get myself back in order after work and college has turned me to a wheezing lump of jelly . I am male, 5' 11 and 200lbs. I have a goal of being 185 - 190lbs with low bodyfat. I realise a sedentary lifestyle has withered a lot of muscle. So do I bulk first pushing my weight up further to build more muscle or just lift heavy and watch my diet to lose the fat while building the muscle? If anyone could shed some light on which road to take please it would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

current diet and training in detail???

BossArky

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

A lot of people make the mistake of joining the gym first and sticking to weights, neglecting the cardio.

It's a schoolboy mistake, but as a result a lot of people can be muscly but not fit at all. It is much more important to improve your fitness than it is to improve your strength (although this too has some importance). With improved fitness, you lead a more healthy, more comfortable and longer life with a reduced risk of heart disease and other problems caused by being overweight.
With being very muscly but not being very fit, your heart isn't as well developed than it would be if you were fit. With a lot of people, they stop weightlifting when they get older as their bodies are not able to keep up with it, or their lives are too busy or whatever. Excess muscle can turn to fat as people can stop muscle training but not make significant enough cuts in their diet to compensate. This can lead to being overweight, which causes heart problems and can lower one's life expectancy.

However, strength training is still important, but it shouldn't be done in isolation without cardio. For example, properly executed deadlifts can help with back posture, which can reduce the chances of getting back related injuries (people who sit at computers all day or in an office all day are prone to these back injuries).

Long story short, you should prioritise losing weight over building muscle, but still have a balance so you do both cardio work and strength training.

PS: There are some people who concentrate solely on weight lifting because they believe that cardio reduces muscle. This isn't true. It's true that extensive cardio can reduce muscle slightly, but only very large amounts of cardio (e.g. triathlon/marathon/ironman/300km cycle etc etc) will have an effect. Otherwise the effects cardio has on muscle loss is neglicable.

Muscle cannot turn to fat. The reason people become fat when they stop training is because they are now taking in more calories than they are burning.

I agree with the rest of your post though. i.e. Strong does not equal fit.

**Timbuk2**

BossArky wrote: »

Muscle cannot turn to fat. The reason people become fat when they stop training is because they are now taking in more calories than they are burning.

That's what I meant - sorry if it wasn't clear

**Timbuk2** wrote:

Excess muscle can turn to fat as people can stop muscle training but not make significant enough cuts in their diet to compensate.

6Pac Shakur

Hi all thanks for the advice, I was kind of leaning toward losing the fat first while lifting as heavy as possible. I know the diet is the main area to clean up. I am trying for the 6 meals a day

1) porridge made on milk (cant stand it with water)
2) banana and protein shake
3) chicken breast with boiled eggs beetroot lettuce corn
4) banana and protein shake
5) chicken breast with wholegrain rice and green veg (luckily i love sprouts spinach green beans etc)
6) Protein shake and if a bit hungry two wholegrain ryvita with laughing cow cheese.

Training:
Monday
Flat Bench Press 3x6
Incline Bench Press 3x6
Decline Bench Press 3x6
Flat Bench Dumbell Flys 3x6
Lat Puldowns 3x6
Dumbell Shrugs 3x6


Wednesday
Tricep Extensions (Rope) 3x6
Barbell Bicep Curls 3x6
Lying Tricep Extensions 3x6
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3x6
Lateral Dumbbell Raises 3x6
Upright Rows 3x6
Tricep Dips Failure
Friday
Squats 3x6
Leg Press 3x6
Standing Calf Raises 3x6
Leg Extensions 3x6
Hamstring Curls 3x6
Cardio: 20 mts after training days
45 mts on non training days plus ab work.
This is what I am starting on feel free to correct anything I may be doing wrong. Thanks agian for all your help.:)

Remmy

6Pac Shakur wrote: »

Hi all thanks for the advice, I was kind of leaning toward losing the fat first while lifting as heavy as possible. I know the diet is the main area to clean up. I am trying for the 6 meals a day

1) porridge made on milk (cant stand it with water)
2) banana and protein shake
3) chicken breast with boiled eggs beetroot lettuce corn
4) banana and protein shake
5) chicken breast with wholegrain rice and green veg (luckily i love sprouts spinach green beans etc)
6) Protein shake and if a bit hungry two wholegrain ryvita with laughing cow cheese.

Training:
Monday
Flat Bench Press 3x6
Incline Bench Press 3x6
Decline Bench Press 3x6
Flat Bench Dumbell Flys 3x6
Lat Puldowns 3x6
Dumbell Shrugs 3x6


Wednesday
Tricep Extensions (Rope) 3x6
Barbell Bicep Curls 3x6
Lying Tricep Extensions 3x6
Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3x6
Lateral Dumbbell Raises 3x6
Upright Rows 3x6
Tricep Dips Failure
Friday
Squats 3x6
Leg Press 3x6
Standing Calf Raises 3x6
Leg Extensions 3x6
Hamstring Curls 3x6
Cardio: 20 mts after training days
45 mts on non training days plus ab work.
This is what I am starting on feel free to correct anything I may be doing wrong. Thanks agian for all your help.:)

you are doing too many exercises per bodypart.Where is your back-work?Apart from lat pull downs you don't have any solid exercises for that.If you still want to go with the split routine I'd suggest dropping back each workout to two or three compound movements.Focus on form and steadily moving the weight up in these.

otherwise
http://www.startingstrength.net/workouts/

drdeadlift

Roper wrote: »

Based upon what I see, there is no such thing as cutting, as pretty much everyone I've seen who has gone on "a bulk" has pretty much stayed there. The "cut" lasts a few days then they reckon they need "a bit more mass" and off they go bulking again.

So clean up the diet and train hard.

you must hang around with some seriously dedicated people lol:eek:

6Pac Shakur

Yeah I realise there that I left out seated rows and trying to do chin-ups both wide grip and narrow (these need to be assisted at moment cos not strong enough yet) to help strengthen my back.

I feel that although there are a lot of execises for each part, that if i do less then i am not working out hard enough. I realise I should do deadlifts also but not attempting it til I practice proper form, dont want to do an injury starting out. Any idea of how long it would take to reach my target if I kept at this?

thanks for the info.

Transform

Remmy wrote: »

you are doing too many exercises per bodypart.Where is your back-work?Apart from lat pull downs you don't have any solid exercises for that.If you still want to go with the split routine I'd suggest dropping back each workout to two or three compound movements.Focus on form and steadily moving the weight up in these.

otherwise
http://www.startingstrength.net/workouts/

agreed!

Transform

6Pac Shakur wrote: »

Yeah I realise there that I left out seated rows and trying to do chin-ups both wide grip and narrow (these need to be assisted at moment cos not strong enough yet) to help strengthen my back.

I feel that although there are a lot of execises for each part, that if i do less then i am not working out hard enough. I realise I should do deadlifts also but not attempting it til I practice proper form, dont want to do an injury starting out. Any idea of how long it would take to reach my target if I kept at this?

thanks for the info.

what are you currently benc pressing, shoulder pressing and squatting.

4 exercises for your chest!!!! Come on mate get with the program here. Plus your doing lots of quad work and then you throw in one exercise for hamstrings - thats just asking for trouble.

Your diet is ok but not enough good fats and drop the banana with shake unless is right after workout (have nuts with the shake at other times of the day).

Finally, i would question your intensity in training - your diet look fairly ok so knowing that i would question either the consistency of your diet and/or how hard your training. As a challenge (if your serious about this) before you do your chest and back workout next time do 3 rounds of as many press ups (chest almost touches the floor remember) followed by as many chin ups (does not matter how many you do just go for it). Take 2mins between attempts and THEN try to do your 4 chest exercises!!! Putting in time in the gym is not the same as making progress there.

6Pac Shakur

Hi there,

Just want to say thanks for the replys. I dont have any numbers yet of what I can squat, bench, press as I have only been just experimenting. I have only just started and im in need of direction. I picked and chose different exercises according to what I thought I needed to do for achieving that goal. Obviously I didnt do too good a job of it. I do have the dedication and consistency for when I start properly that is not whats in question, its the lack of proper knowledge on where to start and what to do?

If anyone can point me in the direction of what is seemed as a suitable routine as you all have more experience than I do.

Thanks.