do you think Admins/Mods can ever be truely fair?

ynotdu

Hi,
I could ask the same about boss,s heads of households etc also.

Is it possible for human beings to be totally fair?
can a mod for instance ever infract/ban in a totally unemotional way?
are we doomed to having favourites we turn the blind eye to if we have a posistion of power?

are we doomed to liking people we agree with or who agree with us,and hostility towards those who dont *fit*our perception of *correctness*

will we always be tribal in nature?and will those in posistions of power always feel threatened by their decisions being questioned?

given the chance are we ALL dictators at heart?

P.S how many might feel slightly intimidated to reply to this thread for fear of retribution by a mod?

orestes

Can't speak for the rest of them but I'm a bastard, but I'm just as much of a bastard to everyone, so as far as I'm concerned that counts as fair

For some reason this thread makes me think of lolcats

ynotdu

Hi BASTARD,
now if only i knew what Lolcats are:)

orestes

ynotdu wrote: »

Hi BASTARD,
now if only i knew what Lolcats are:)

Hello person.
Allow me to help you.
This is a lolcat:



Apt, no?

ynotdu

Let me help you my OP was a serious question with a serious reason behind it!

I've never had a problem with any of the Mods judgments even if I'm on the receiving end. Sure, I might disagree with their opinions in threads, but are they fair? yup. I think so.

orestes

ynotdu wrote: »

Let me help you my OP was a serious question with a serious reason behind it!

Bastard, remember?

ynotdu

Deleted User wrote: »

I've never had a problem with any of the Mods judgments even if I'm on the receiving end. Sure, I might disagree with their opinions in threads, but are they fair? yup. I think so.

believe it or not so do i believe boards is in general very well moderated(you proably have seen others who,s mods are little more than smug arrogant bullies)

I have seen some posts here were an issue was disgracefully treated though,Adverts.ie for some reason in particulor seems to be of more trouble than its worth(I have never posted on it)

ynotdu

orestes wrote: »

Bastard, remember?

well You said it!

_

Everyone has their own agenda and well being.

Tar.Aldarion

I do not believe the vast majority will act in a 100% consistent manner, taht is the nature of poeple. Of course, they will do the best they can, and the bias won't really be enough to affect things or they won't be a mod for long.

turgon

Well specifically speaking about Boards, this site has a kind of judicial hierarchy system: you get banned -> appeal to mod -> appeal to admin -> appeal in prison if applicable. In my experience the admins are very fair, and that fact there are some 7 or something of them means you will get a good decision. Also, as weve seen recently, if the decision is a big deal many hundreds of members will chip in their views. And the admins listen.

Again about Boards: this website appears to operate on general polite be-nice guidelines. This pisses a lot of people off because they are what I term "Internet Heroes," they just want to come on and offer nothing to the site but abuse and trolling.

It also operates on common sense. I spend most time on politics, which is probably one of the more tyrannical forums in terms of moderating. However the mods are extremely fair, and if you have reasons to earn their respect they certainly would be willing to listen to you (Im not saying I have btw). If youve a stupid narrow minded suggestion (like allowing posting in Irish in non-Irish forums) then they will turn you down, but not before giving full reasons as to why. If you make a suggestion on Boards you never simply get a Yes or No, you get a full and healthy examination of that suggestion.

Fundamentally, Boards would collapse under democracy. Between friends and duplicate accounts you would probably get 50%+1 users voting for the removal of the abuse ban. Then you just got another 4chan.


So ... whats the reason?

Nevyn

Well that is a new low for the humanites forum, lolcats.
I am reporting this thread, cos it either should be in feedback or in helpdesk.
Feedback for general mod mehness or helpdesk considering the op got banned from PI/RI this evening and hasn't taken it well.

If we're talking about boards.ie, I have been banned once since I joined in May 2002.. And that was about 3 months ago. That's saying a lot since I used to have rather extreme stances on a lot of things. If you focus on the subject, rather than attacking people themselves, posters are generally fine. That is why people get pissed off. They can't insult people at will. Which is fine in my book.

Hagar

turgon wrote: »

If youve a stupid narrow minded suggestion (like allowing posting in Irish)

Bhí tú ag dul go maith le haghaidh cúpla noimead ach ansin rinne tú ásal duit féin. Better luck next time.

turgon

Hagar wrote: »

Bhí tú ag dul go maith le haghaidh cúpla noimead ach ansin rinne tú ásal duit féin. Better luck next time.

"You were doing well for a while but you messed up then", I believe? I have only a small bit of Irish.

Anyway I would disagree, I think my argument was quite coherent but perhaps you took it out of context. The poster suggesting we post in Irish was partly doing it because he wanted to talk secret with the nationalists. The rationale behind oscarBravos decision to shoot him down was that English was spoken by everyone on the site, Irish would be mis understood, and if you wanted to speak Irish go to the Teach na Gealt or Gailege forums.

Also, you could have told me to **** off there and if I didn't know any Irish I wouldn't have realized. But I know you nicer than that

ynotdu

turgon wrote: »

Well specifically speaking about Boards, this site has a kind of judicial hierarchy system: you get banned -> appeal to mod -> appeal to admin -> appeal in prison if applicable. In my experience the admins are very fair, and that fact there are some 7 or something of them means you will get a good decision. Also, as weve seen recently, if the decision is a big deal many hundreds of members will chip in their views. And the admins listen.

Again about Boards: this website appears to operate on general polite be-nice guidelines. This pisses a lot of people off because they are what I term "Internet Heroes," they just want to come on and offer nothing to the site but abuse and trolling.

It also operates on common sense. I spend most time on politics, which is probably one of the more tyrannical forums in terms of moderating. However the mods are extremely fair, and if you have reasons to earn their respect they certainly would be willing to listen to you (Im not saying I have btw). If youve a stupid narrow minded suggestion (like allowing posting in Irish) then they will turn you down, but not before giving full reasons as to why. If you make a suggestion on Boards you never simply get a Yes or No, you get a full and healthy examination of that suggestion.

Fundamentally, Boards would collapse under democracy. Between friends and duplicate accounts you would probably get 50%+1 users voting for the removal of the abuse ban. Then you just got another 4chan.


So ... whats the reason?

thanks for the comprehensive reply,I understand the appeal system,
normally i would not bother with it as everybody is human and in general site has a light hand by most mods.
still the odd tyrant gets through and somehow gets to remain as a mod?
also i could easily demonstrate(you have proably seen posts like it yourself)were mods/admins develop almost a blood lust/pack mentality when challenged by a poster.sad how much just below the surface people are so ready to jump on the bandwagon of tearing one poster apart.
demonstrates that minorities may ALWAYS fall prey to basic insticts.
Q.E.D

turgon

Consider that most forums have multiple mods. In one thread in a particular forum, a mod of that forum engaged in what some viewed as abuse and he was subsequently given an infraction by another mod there. Theres a certain balance of power, as it were.

Hagar

turgon wrote: »

The poster suggesting we post in Irish was partly doing it because he wanted to talk secret with the nationalists.

A blantant untruth my good fellow. I was that poster.
Me and another guy really. I try not to talk to myself much in any language.

Nevyn

Yes generally a lot of the forums only need light modding, but there are some which are strict, very strict like PI/RI, politics ect.

It's not that some mods are tryants it is that all forums are not modded in the same way.

Kintarō Hattori

Can mods ever be fair? One word for you ---> Ruu.






(Yes they can of course be, there are many more fair mods, Ruu is just one example).

turgon

Hagar wrote: »

A blantant untruth my good fellow. I was that poster.

Apologies, but I was refering to conchubar1's attempt last month. I didnt know you had pushed for this, and I dont hold your motives to be the same as his.

drunkmonkey

ynotdu wrote: »

still the odd tyrant gets through and somehow gets to remain as a mod?
also i could easily demonstrate(you have proably seen posts like it yourself)were mods/admins develop almost a blood lust/pack mentality when challenged by a poster.sad how much just below the surface people are so ready to jump on the bandwagon of tearing one poster apart.
demonstrates that minorities may ALWAYS fall prey to basic insticts.
Q.E.D

Couldn't agree more, i'm currently serving a 1month ban, It was nothing short of rape by a mod and his buddy...and I won't be appealing it, just made up my mind he's a paranoid bully....

To answer posters question, I don't think mods can ever be fair but in general they are....Admins, well you just to respect their authority...

turgon

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It was nothing short of rape by a mod and his buddy...and I won't be appealing it

Perhaps you would enlighten us as to why not?

Nerin

Helpdesk is for complaints about mods. Feedback is for general feedback.

This doesn't belong here.

MiCr0

Moving this over to the feedback section, as its not a humanities topic, and will likely end up with discussions on specific mods

ChocolateSauce

I find the mods very fair, and I can't name one I have had a problem with. I've been infracted (red card) three or four times, and I don't really dispute those- they were fair and by taking the infractions on board I've avoided it lately. All four were in the first half of my time here.

As for fairness in other situations, I think yes, it is. Of course, fair isn't always the right way to go about some things, and it's also highly subjective. Generally, I think some of the people who have to apply the principle of being fair in the most profound way are judges, who must not let their personal feelings about a topic influence how they judge.

Doctor DooM

Most mods are pretty fair.

Not dicking around in their forums = no ban

Dicking around in their forums = ban.

In my 3 years on this site, I would say from all the feedback/helpdesk threads I have read I would say 2-3% of them had legitimate complaints.

I also note with great interest how people nearly always start these threads with "mod xyz banned me just for saying hello" or something like that... then under examination, they're banned for something completely different (which they neglected to mention). I would expect this thread to attract a certain amount of these posters.

I do worry that for the average user who flits through feedback, they see the "I was banned unfairly" part without the follow through to the "it's not unfair to ban someone who posted U R ALL DIKHED SAD INNERNETZPEOPLE HAHAHAHA on a personal issues thread".

In my time pre mod, when no one on the mod team here new me, I managed to rack up a massive 0 bans, with an equally humungous 0 infractions. I got I think 1 direct warning from a mod. It's really not hard to live happily on boards as long as you follow the standard internet rule of read a forum for a few days before you post.

I don't think anyone can be truly, 100% fair, as people are people, but I would say most mods do their best.

bonkey

ynotdu wrote: »

Hi,
can a mod for instance ever infract/ban in a totally unemotional way?

Yes. I would argue that every mod here has infracted or banned at some point in a completely fair, balanced, impartial and unemotional manner.

Of course, I'd equally accept that every mod here has also made decisions which do not hold to that level of purity and perfection.

So I guess the real issue here is which question is being asked:

Can a decision be perfectly made? Yes.
Can a mod always make perfect decisions? No.

DeVore

turgon wrote: »

Well specifically speaking about Boards, this site has a kind of judicial hierarchy system: you get banned -> appeal to mod -> appeal to admin -> appeal in prison if applicable. In my experience the admins are very fair, and that fact there are some 7 or something of them means you will get a good decision. Also, as weve seen recently, if the decision is a big deal many hundreds of members will chip in their views. And the admins listen.

Again about Boards: this website appears to operate on general polite be-nice guidelines. This pisses a lot of people off because they are what I term "Internet Heroes," they just want to come on and offer nothing to the site but abuse and trolling.

It also operates on common sense. I spend most time on politics, which is probably one of the more tyrannical forums in terms of moderating. However the mods are extremely fair, and if you have reasons to earn their respect they certainly would be willing to listen to you (Im not saying I have btw). If youve a stupid narrow minded suggestion (like allowing posting in Irish in non-Irish forums) then they will turn you down, but not before giving full reasons as to why. If you make a suggestion on Boards you never simply get a Yes or No, you get a full and healthy examination of that suggestion.

Fundamentally, Boards would collapse under democracy. Between friends and duplicate accounts you would probably get 50%+1 users voting for the removal of the abuse ban. Then you just got another 4chan.


So ... whats the reason?

Wow. Jesus... I think thats the first time a user has clearly articulated my intentions for the site to a tee.

Umm... yeah. What he said.


In general, its extremely difficult, nay impossible to act without bias and being fair to all sides. It takes a great deal of focus and an old fashioned thing called "thought".
I dont think it can be achieved 100% but I do think most people, in almost every walk of life could do a helloava lot better from what I've seen....

DeV.

joes girls

I would say all Mods are well picked to over see the forums they are Mod of,they do a good job, you might not always agree with them,but would you always agree with everyone and everything!

The Sweeper

You cannot suit all users all of the time. Whatever decision you make, someone will feel it is unfair.

You appear to be making a bit of noise about the moderation of this site. You also appear to have misconceptions about what we'll do - references to banning users for speaking up, for instance.

Is there a chase you'd like to cut to?

GuanYin

turgon wrote: »

Apologies, but I was refering to conchubar1's attempt last month. I didnt know you had pushed for this, and I dont hold your motives to be the same as his.

Hagar wrote: »

A blantant untruth my good fellow. I was that poster.
Me and another guy really. I try not to talk to myself much in any language.

Hagar and I went over this before. I believe we offered a compromise. We merely required that any posts in Irish had a full and accurate English translation in the post also, so as not to exclude any posters.

Nobody is stopping anyone posting in Irish, we just want to ensure that everyone is included in the conversation.

As Minesajackdaniels said, we can aspire to please everyone, but the reality is, we will only ever manage to please a majority.

turgon

^^ Cheers. conchubar1 was pushing for Irish-only posting asfaik. All comments I made as regards that issue were to do with conchubar1's request.

ynotdu

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

You cannot suit all users all of the time. Whatever decision you make, someone will feel it is unfair.

You appear to be making a bit of noise about the moderation of this site. You also appear to have misconceptions about what we'll do - references to banning users for speaking up, for instance.

Is there a chase you'd like to cut to?

No no chase i want to cut to.I am not going to nit pick the bits i did,nt like over the three threads involved:)
the fact that i could log on to the site today increases my admiration for it very much.
I am actually proud of the site and also that it Irish owned,proably the best site on the net for checks and balances between posters and mods there is.
I say this because I honestly feel its true ,NOT because i want to please anybody for the sake of remaining a poster or feeling i cannot speak my truth in case i (or other members) upset a mod or admin:)

plenty of democratic true grit by mods/admins who will do the job in a professional way.The not taking it personally by most mods is very refreshing to experiance having tried simulor sites on the net.
kind regards

K-9

GuanYin wrote: »

As Minesajackdaniels said, we can aspire to please everyone, but the reality is, we will only ever manage to please a majority.

QFT.

Democracy in action!

ynotdu

K-9 wrote: »

QFT.

Democracy in action!

Was it FDR who said "You can fool some of the people some of the time"
" more of the people more of the time"
"but you cannot fool All of the people ALL of the time"?;);)


or was it him who said "the buck stops here"on a plaque on his desk in the Oval office

Hagar

GuanYin wrote: »

Hagar and I went over this before. I believe we offered a compromise. We merely required that any posts in Irish had a full and accurate English translation in the post also, so as not to exclude any posters.

Indeed, there is always a middle ground. The trick is not finding it in itself but to have the will to find it.

sceptre

ynotdu wrote: »

Was it FDR who said "You can fool some of the people some of the time"
" more of the people more of the time"
"but you cannot fool All of the people ALL of the time"?;);)


or was it him who said "the buck stops here"on a plaque on his desk in the Oval office

Neither:) But someone said both.

The first one's generally attributed to Lincoln, the second one is definitely Truman.

AckwelFoley

orestes wrote: »

Hello person.
Allow me to help you.
This is a lolcat:



Apt, no?

**runs off to start a new feedback thread "please bring back the thanks button in feedback"**

ynotdu

sceptre wrote: »

Neither:) But someone said both.

The first one's generally attributed to Lincoln, the second one is definitely Truman.

Lol well never one to refuse a learning curve me!:)
just when do learning curves stop,? i,m knackered,but hunger and thirst for knowledge!:)


@* $$$$$;;;;?/////

ynotdu

snyper wrote: »

**runs off to start a new feedback thread "please bring back the thanks button in feedback"**

see i,m always on a learning curve!http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolcat

DeVore

snyper wrote: »

**runs off to start a new feedback thread "please bring back the thanks button in feedback"**

Actually, I'm really missing it

DeV.

AckwelFoley

DeVore wrote: »

Actually, I'm really missing it

DeV.

Boards.ie Menu > Control Panel > System > setup > thanks button on/off

Sharpshooter

^^^^^^
I wish I could thank that.:(

johnnyskeleton

orestes wrote: »

Can't speak for the rest of them but I'm a bastard,

Not really, you're a pussy cat.

orestes wrote: »

but I'm just as much of a bastard to everyone, so as far as I'm concerned that counts as fair

No, there's much bigger bastards than you.

orestes wrote: »

For some reason this thread makes me think of lolcats

Well done. Sarcastic irreverent threads are great. Especially in feedback. I appreciate the irony of my own post, but sure what can you do?

johnnyskeleton

Thaedydal wrote: »

Well that is a new low for the humanites forum, lolcats.
I am reporting this thread, cos it either should be in feedback or in helpdesk.
Feedback for general mod mehness or helpdesk considering the op got banned from PI/RI this evening and hasn't taken it well.

So it's not just certain mods (now admins - god bless their soles) who dump PI threads in humanities, but it's also posters who don't get satisfaction in PI who want to expand the specific to the general?

It's probably best to say that some people accept authority, others don't, and a few make it their mission to derail it whenever they can.

Otis Driftwood

ynotdu wrote: »

Hi,
I could ask the same about boss,s heads of households etc also.

Is it possible for human beings to be totally fair?
can a mod for instance ever infract/ban in a totally unemotional way?
are we doomed to having favourites we turn the blind eye to if we have a posistion of power?

are we doomed to liking people we agree with or who agree with us,and hostility towards those who dont *fit*our perception of *correctness*

will we always be tribal in nature?and will those in posistions of power always feel threatened by their decisions being questioned?

given the chance are we ALL dictators at heart?

P.S how many might feel slightly intimidated to reply to this thread for fear of retribution by a mod?

Bosses,heads of house holds or mods act by a rule.

You act the bollix,expect consequences.

Simple as.

You go to work drunk,should that be let go?

You take a dump on the coffee table,is that acceptable?

You act the prick here,will you get away with it?

No

As for this

can a mod for instance ever infract/ban in a totally unemotional way?

That is quite possibly the most ridiculous question I have ever seen on Boards.

Seriously,were you in an accident or something?

Cabaal

drunkmonkey wrote: »

<snip>......, i'm currently serving a 1month ban, It was nothing short of rape by a mod....<snip>

A ban is equal to rape now?
I'm sure many rape victims would find your comparison extremely offensive.

BuffyBot

Seriously,were you in an accident or something?

Keep it civil (and in perspective re: the comment quoted above) folks, or I'll become less than patient with people

Doctor DooM

BuffyBot wrote: »

Keep it civil (and in perspective re: the comment quoted above) folks, or I'll become less than patient with people

Yes, but will you be fair?