The Puroresu (Japanese Wrestling) thread

LineOfBeauty

Where'd you all land on DDT Ultimate Party? Really enjoyed the last 4 matches, all 3.75 or above. Went 4 on Akiyama/Take****a and 4.5 on the Endo/Sasaki main event. Main was story heavy, lots of interference but the work was really top notch, and I popped big for the Ishikawa singing spot at the end.

Also loved Dragon Gate's show from Korakuen yesterday. High effort. Putting the company firmly in a new direction.

RollieFingers

Haven't seen Ultimate Party yet, sounds good though! DG in Korakuen was really good yeh, so Kento is now going as SB Kento. Love that he's getting the push, he doesn't look out of place in R.E.D at all. Kobe World next week should be a cracker too, huge month for Dragon Gate and they have got off to great start.

I'm a fan of Jay winning the G1 briefcase today, something a bit different at least. Thought it was a good match as you always get with him and Ibushi, White's deadlift German looked class. Enjoyed Shingo/Suzuki and KENTA/Tanahashi too, EVIL/Naito was ok but I've seen more than enough of that pairing recently, they need to keep them apart for a while. Pretty decent Power Struggle overall from NJPW.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Haven't seen Ultimate Party yet, sounds good though! DG in Korakuen was really good yeh, so Kento is now going as SB Kento. Love that he's getting the push, he doesn't look out of place in R.E.D at all. Kobe World next week should be a cracker too, huge month for Dragon Gate and they have got off to great start.

I'm a fan of Jay winning the G1 briefcase today, something a bit different at least. Thought it was a good match as you always get with him and Ibushi, White's deadlift German looked class. Enjoyed Shingo/Suzuki and KENTA/Tanahashi too, EVIL/Naito was ok but I've seen more than enough of that pairing recently, they need to keep them apart for a while. Pretty decent Power Struggle overall from NJPW.

Ye loved Ibushi/White, White has never been better and the double shot Title defences at the Dome should do well.

The feedback to the main event is super mixed. I've ranged from middling to simply hating the Naito/EVIL series of matches. By far this was there best work together, where I think I deviate is in the final 3rd of the match where it got super interference heavy. I didn't hate it, infact I enjoyed it. I thought it added to the drama and as a blowoff to this particular feud it made sense with both guys emptying the holster. Do I want this in all (or any) of my NJPW main events? Not really, but for this particular match and feud it was fine. Now that EVIL is out of the way, hopefully we can get back to regular NJPW main events. That being said, I went big on this ****1/4

LineOfBeauty

Well the big headline news, Shun Skywalker the new -(and youngest ever at 24) Open the Dream Gate Champion and the match with generational rival Ben K is on. Just great stuff.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers hit me with some Kobe World takes!

Shame about the Covid stuff messing up the Twin Gate match in particular, but I thought they rolled with it pretty well with the Yamato stuff, KZY and Yamato challenging at Sendai should be a banger hoping they win it. The post match ignoring of Kota Minoura seemed way to much on the nose not to come back up later.

Ishida/Okuda was fantastic, ****1/2 from me. Okuda as the Brave Gate champion is just so great and Ishida has it, 24 years old and he has all the superstar charisma in the world (on top of having a great entrance theme and, even with dreads, getting my vote for hottest wrestler 2020 if such a vote existed).

SB Kento has the rocket packet attached to him, there's no stopping him. The 3 way Triangle Gate match itself just ended up existing purely for the visuals of SBK tapping out UT and, more importantly, Masato Yoshino at Dragon Gate's biggest show of the year in the semi main event. At 20 years old, the kid is a lock to be a major player in the top of the card of Dragon Gate for another 20 years barring injury or him leaving the company.

In ring it wasn't as good as some recent Dragon Gate shows sure, and probably below other recent Kobe World events (though the clap crowd did not help) but there theme pre show and coming out of it is that we are now in a new era of Dragon Gate and this was cemented by the result of the main event. The Final Gate is confirmed headlined by Shun Skywalker vs Ben K, generational rivals, two guys under 30 and both of whom only debuted in 2016, what a vote of confidence from the company to both guys and really a show of belief in themselves that Dragon Gate back that their star making process has been a hit. I know every podcast under the sun has said it, but it's worth reiterating, as a recent full time convert myself, if you're going to get into Dragon Gate, this is the time to do it. Full English commentary on the big shows, a complete overhaul of the main event scene, a half dozen or so young guys being elevated at the same time (with more to come), this is the ideal time to start following it.

RollieFingers

I agree with pretty much everything you said man, I don't think it will be a contender for show of the year from an in-ring perspective, but it was still a cracking event and pretty much everything you'd want from Kobe World. In fairness to DG all the covid stuff didn't help in that regard, but thankfully didn't take too much away from the show.

I loved Ishida/Okuda, it's up there for feud of the year for me. Everything they do looks crisp and brutal, and I like that their matches never go too long, I think the empty arena match was the longest at around 15 minutes. The right result for me too, plenty of options for Okuda to defend against, and surely the next thing in Ishida's future is the Dream Gate.

It's a real shame that Jason Lee was one of those affected by the Covid precautions, him and Kota Minoura deserved to defend them on the biggest stage. Thought the match was decent if a bit all over the place in the beginning, result was never in doubt.

Big announcement about them running two nights next year for Kobe World next year, with the second night for Masato Yoshino's retirement. For me he is one of the greatest wrestlers ever and absolutely deserves to have fans in person at his send-off.

Which leads on nicely to the Triangle Gate, which of course was the SB-Kento show. Him tapping out U-T was another nice notch on his belt, but obviously submitting Yoshino is a completely different story, one of the biggest seals of approval you can get in DG really. He's a class act, it's almost unheard of for someone so young to be given such a prominent position in a big Japanese promotion.

I thought EITA/Shun was good but not great. The ending was a bit abrupt, I would have liked another five minutes or so. Shun looked great though, and I found the story on commentary about his Hayabusa connection really interesting. And the natural progression of his story into defending against Ben-K made him the correct winner in my eyes.

And I echo what you say about anyone looking to get into some more Puro that now is the time to check out DG. I love NJPW and I'm looking forward to catching the opening night show from the weekend but it's just not as exciting as DG at the moment, doesn't feel as fresh.

The DG network always works perfectly and the English comms when they appear are really good, Jae has an encyclopedic knowledge of the product that really helps people on our side of the world to know what's going on.

Also helps that they have the best young roster anywhere in wrestling - Ishida, Okuda, SB-Kento, Shun, Dia, Eita, Jason Lee, Ben-K, Tamei, Kikuta, Kota Minoura, U-T, Fujikawa all under thirty years of age! The future is bright.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said man, I don't think it will be a contender for show of the year from an in-ring perspective, but it was still a cracking event and pretty much everything you'd want from Kobe World. In fairness to DG all the covid stuff didn't help in that regard, but thankfully didn't take too much away from the show.

I loved Ishida/Okuda, it's up there for feud of the year for me. Everything they do looks crisp and brutal, and I like that their matches never go too long, I think the empty arena match was the longest at around 15 minutes. The right result for me too, plenty of options for Okuda to defend against, and surely the next thing in Ishida's future is the Dream Gate.

It's a real shame that Jason Lee was one of those affected by the Covid precautions, him and Kota Minoura deserved to defend them on the biggest stage. Thought the match was decent if a bit all over the place in the beginning, result was never in doubt.

Big announcement about them running two nights next year for Kobe World next year, with the second night for Masato Yoshino's retirement. For me he is one of the greatest wrestlers ever and absolutely deserves to have fans in person at his send-off.

Which leads on nicely to the Triangle Gate, which of course was the SB-Kento show. Him tapping out U-T was another nice notch on his belt, but obviously submitting Yoshino is a completely different story, one of the biggest seals of approval you can get in DG really. He's a class act, it's almost unheard of for someone so young to be given such a prominent position in a big Japanese promotion.

I thought EITA/Shun was good but not great. The ending was a bit abrupt, I would have liked another five minutes or so. Shun looked great though, and I found the story on commentary about his Hayabusa connection really interesting. And the natural progression of his story into defending against Ben-K made him the correct winner in my eyes.

And I echo what you say about anyone looking to get into some more Puro that now is the time to check out DG. I love NJPW and I'm looking forward to catching the opening night show from the weekend but it's just not as exciting as DG at the moment, doesn't feel as fresh.

The DG network always works perfectly and the English comms when they appear are really good, Jae has an encyclopedic knowledge of the product that really helps people on our side of the world to know what's going on.

Also helps that they have the best young roster anywhere in wrestling - Ishida, Okuda, SB-Kento, Shun, Dia, Eita, Jason Lee, Ben-K, Tamei, Kikuta, Kota Minoura, U-T, Fujikawa all under thirty years of age! The future is bright.

Agree with all that and ye the English commentary with Jae is sooo good! Really brings you up to speed with everything and Ho Ho Lun is charming!

Also the 2 NJPW shows from this tour have been OK, yesterday's main event definitely the standout match so far.

RollieFingers

Have seen the first night, thought it was decent enough.

Hiromu and Ishimori obviously the match of the night, really good stuff although that piledriver on the apron made me wince.

Enjoyed Despy/Taguchi and Douki/Eagles too.

The WTL is kinda just there, it's good that the shows are split from now until the final night, much easier to get through. Not sure about Cobb in the Empire, I thought he would have been a better fit with Suzuki-Gun.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Have seen the first night, thought it was decent enough.

Hiromu and Ishimori obviously the match of the night, really good stuff although that piledriver on the apron made me wince.

Enjoyed Despy/Taguchi and Douki/Eagles too.

The WTL is kinda just there, it's good that the shows are split from now until the final night, much easier to get through. Not sure about Cobb in the Empire, I thought he would have been a better fit with Suzuki-Gun.

Aside from like snarling slightly more Cobb's act is like exactly the same. It's early days and hopefully he can find his groove. Also gonna say I prefer O'Khan's trunks look to the baggy pants, I thought they looked lower level indie.

LineOfBeauty

I'm saying it now, I'm enjoying World Tag League way more this year than Best of the Super Juniors. It's early days, but BOSJ lost so much without the overseas talent and then the Kanemaru injury.

The last 2 matches on today's show were both 4 star in my book.

RollieFingers

I dunno, I just can't get enthusiastic for WTL! Dangerous Tekkers/LIJ was excellent though.

I thought Desperado/Hiromu was really good getting close to great but again more BS shenanigans and interference. Not what I want from NJPW, hopefully they reign that back a bit soon. Still love how Deperado is Hiromu's kryptonite.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

I dunno, I just can't get enthusiastic for WTL! Dangerous Tekkers/LIJ was excellent though.

I thought Desperado/Hiromu was really good getting close to great but again more BS shenanigans and interference. Not what I want from NJPW, hopefully they reign that back a bit soon. Still love how Deperado is Hiromu's kryptonite.

I'll catch BOSJ live today and see if my opinion turns a bit, just the field for it is very meh. I know, not their fault, but it's Hiromu and a bunch of guys.

LineOfBeauty

Watched the NOAH Chronicles Volume 4 show today, first time in a while watching a full NOAH show. Overall impression is that nothing was bad, almost every match save for Kenoh and Kiyomiya went too long. Probably the main issue with the undercard is that very little of significance happens. The semi main must've had an average age of like 47 between the 4 of them. And the English commentary is beyond dreadful, like a Japanese wrestling company having it should be commended but legit I think if you were a 1st time NOAH viewer for this show and you opted for the English commentary you'd come away with basically no added knowledge of the product (because most of the time they didn't seem to know much about the company or back stories) and a less enjoyable experience.

But... I enjoyed the show. The Junior Tag Title match was good, Kiyomiya / Kenoh excellent (****) and the main was a NOAH epic that probably could've lost 10 minutes and been better. That being said, it was insanely stiff, it played on several different stories at once and the result was clean, Nakajima/Shiozaki delivered ****1/2

RollieFingers

I only saw the main event, thought it was excellent. How good was Shiozaki? Really impressive performance.

I'll have to check out Kenoh and Kaito. Been meaning to keep up more with NOAH and DDT in general, not enough hours in the day!

The English comms are atrocious though like you said. It's not a deal breaker for me to have English commentary on Puro but obviously it helps a lot, they could definitely improve on that aspect.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

I only saw the main event, thought it was excellent. How good was Shiozaki? Really impressive performance.

I'll have to check out Kenoh and Kaito. Been meaning to keep up more with NOAH and DDT in general, not enough hours in the day!

The English comms are atrocious though like you said. It's not a deal breaker for me to have English commentary on Puro but obviously it helps a lot, they could definitely improve on that aspect.

It was so bizarre, like the wrestler would enter, they'd list off his debut date and who he was trained by, then they'd totally ignore any backstory of the wrestler, the colour guy would call the odd move here and there and the play by play (Stuart something I think) would call the match as though it was taking place at a leisure club in Blackpool. So so bad. Night and day between that and what NJPW and Dragon Gate offer.

I'm going through the 1st D-OU DDT show now. Once work from home is over I fear I won't be able to keep up quite as much!

LineOfBeauty

After the first match, MAO/Akito, I thought this was going to be a super low effort affair but it really picked up from there. Brookes/Harashima ***1/2. Take****a has filled out so much, hits me every time I see him, great work in his match against Sasaki ***3/4. Oishi/Katsumata was pretty good***1/4, Shunma is pretty cute too so added 1/4 star for that. Higuchi/Ueno I really enjoyed, a couple of spots in this were so great, Ueno's diving rana to the outside, and my favourite spot was where Ueno charges into Higuchi with a back elbow, Higuchi stands there and absorbs it and Ueno collapses to the mat, great stuff, Ueno is a can't miss star, his in ring is very close to headliner standard, his look is not in question (think young, streamlined Kota Ibushi, basically gorgeous) and he's got charisma too, ****. Finished with Endo/Akiyama, my initial thought was I preferred the in ring in this match more than Take****a/Akiyama (which I did really like), Endo is a low key candidate for wrestler of the year, Akiyama against these young DDT guys is just terrific stuff. ****.

Just to note, though parts of that mini review may have come across as absolutely pervy, it's important to remember that in DDT looks are very important, it's Idol wrestling that is made to appeal to female and gay fans along with your hardcore male wrestling fans too.

RollieFingers

Enjoyed the Gate of Origin, both title matches were very good. Was really hoping SB Kento would tap out Yokosuka to keep the super push going so delighted he did. Submitting Shimizu, Yoshino and now Yokosuka within the space of a month is very impressive from SBK.

KAI and BxB gave a good first defense of the Twin Gate. They're both some of the hardest hitting in DG so I think they have potential to be a really good team, especially when in against the likes of Kzy and YAMATO. I liked the four-way tag match too, need more of Don Fuji and Mochizuki against Madoka Kikuta and Taketo Kamei.

In the BOSJ Eagles/Hiromu was great, definitely one of Eagles best singles matches in NJPW. I liked the all Suzuki-gun contest too, hopefully Douki gets a win soon!

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Enjoyed the Gate of Origin, both title matches were very good. Was really hoping SB Kento would tap out Yokosuka to keep the super push going so delighted he did. Submitting Shimizu, Yoshino and now Yokosuka within the space of a month is very impressive from SBK.

KAI and BxB gave a good first defense of the Twin Gate. They're both some of the hardest hitting in DG so I think they have potential to be a really good team, especially when in against the likes of Kzy and YAMATO. I liked the four-way tag match too, need more of Don Fuji and Mochizuki against Madoka Kikuta and Taketo Kamei.

In the BOSJ Eagles/Hiromu was great, definitely one of Eagles best singles matches in NJPW. I liked the all Suzuki-gun contest too, hopefully Douki gets a win soon!

Really enjoyed Gate of Origin, enjoying DDT's D-OU Grand Prix too, honestly I've handwaved this NJPW tour til they hit Budokan.

But more important than all of that, today is Doi Darts!

LineOfBeauty

Just to flesh out that Gate of Origin part a bit. Loved the main event, I am absolutely the high man on it but the physicality of it, the Yamato/Hulk/Kai triangle works for me (partially because I'm not overexposed to it I suppose) and Kzy is just wonderful, a really fantastic main event guy when he needs to be. Kzy is not an ace, but you buy the idea that he can win any title at any time. My impression of Kai based on his AJPW run has always been "guy who should be better than he is" he has the size, but lacking in charisma and underwhelming bell to bell but in Dragon Gate his trollish heel persona in R.E.D just works and I've been so pleasantly surprised by his in ring output too. I went ****1/2 on this, it felt like an epic big time tag main event.

The Triangle Gate match, like all Triangle Gate matches at the moment, is about SB Kento. You know the finish, it still doesn't make it any less great and that it's Yokosuka that he's tapping out and not Horiguchi or Kanda makes it all the sweeter. I actually thought this was SBK's best showing since joining R.E.D he bumps like a maniac, he has presence and ring generalship well beyond what his age should allow and he's getting over his key spots (primarily the Scorpion Deathlock finish). It's one thing to pick a youngster and push them to the moon, but you have to make sure you pick someone capable of carrying it off and living up to the push, SBK looks as solid a bet as any I can remember in a long time in any company.

Finally, I can't even begin to describe how hyped I am for the Ben K/Shun Skywalker Final Gate main event. Ben K, the likely long term ace of the company and the man who beat Pac, and Shun Skywalker, generational rival whose just won the title in the main event of the biggest show of the year. Booking pro wrestling should be easy, this feels easy, and yet there's a couple of years of work that's gone in to this match, but great booking should look easy.

RollieFingers

Looking forward to Ben K/Shun too, should be really good. Simple, effective booking that makes sense like you said. Today's show was very interesting, looks like Shun is forming a unit with Dragon Dia, Jason Lee & Kota Minoura!

Also Madoka Kikuta turning heel and joining R.E.D was class, wasn't expecting it. They announced a five-way losing unit disbands match for Final Gate, R.E.D vs Toryumon. Could see R.E.D losing and Ishida and the young guns kicking Eita out and taking over but the heel unit has only ever lost unit disband matches twice in DG history so Toryumon getting beaten is still most likely I'd say.

Should be a great match though, Final Gate is shaping up very nicely. Kagetora vs Okuda for the Brave Gate and Mochizuki and the Don getting a Twin Gate shot!

RollieFingers

Shiozaki/Sugiura was incredible, definitely a late contender for MOTY. Go has to be up there in the discussion for wrestler of the year too.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Shiozaki/Sugiura was incredible, definitely a late contender for MOTY. Go has to be up there in the discussion for wrestler of the year too.

Just saw it and I'd second both of those statements. 5 stars for me, everything I want in my wrestling. A winner and a loser, emotion, action, and a beautifully told story. The story of Shiozaki this year has been a level above anything else in wrestling, just gorgeous and he should headline the huge return to Nippon Budokan show in February. Great pro wrestling.

RollieFingers

Great story alright, definitely one of the best this year. Could have done without Mutoh being the next challenger but should still be decent.

Finals of the New Japan tournies this Friday, very little interest in FinJuice/G.O.D but I'm looking forward to Desperado/Hiromu, really hope Despy wins it.

Loads of DG on this week too, the 14 man Royal Sambo is on today's show, would like to see Don Fuji or Yoshino get the victory.

I see Yusuke Okuda is leaving AJPW at the end of the month as his contract is up, interesting to see where he ends up.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Great story alright, definitely one of the best this year. Could have done without Mutoh being the next challenger but should still be decent.

Finals of the New Japan tournies this Friday, very little interest in FinJuice/G.O.D but I'm looking forward to Desperado/Hiromu, really hope Despy wins it.

Loads of DG on this week too, the 14 man Royal Sambo is on today's show, would like to see Don Fuji or Yoshino get the victory.

I see Yusuke Okuda is leaving AJPW at the end of the month as his contract is up, interesting to see where he ends up.

True but get him out of the way before Budokan and hopefully Shiozaki lariats him back to the nostalgia indies.

I'll watch the Budokan show but aside from the first 3 shows of the tour I've just not watched it and I didn't love Hiromu/Despy from Korakuen so hopefully this one is better.

I'm a couple shows behind on Dragon Gate, hoping to catch up by the end of the week though!

RollieFingers

El Desperado/Hiromu did not disappoint, great match, another late contender for match of the year for me. 2020 has thrown up a few oddities in pro-wrestling, can now add Desperado being introduced last in the main event at the Budokan to the list, which is pretty mad!

The match was fantastic, followed on really well from their earlier encounter in the tournament itself. Despy de-masking is the obvious talking point of course, made for a great moment and excellent visual. Hiromu now a very well deserved two-time BOSJ winner and could be a huge opportunity for Desperado too if he ditches the mask for good. Both men come out of the match looking great, kudos to NJPW here, brilliant booking.

The Empire had a nice showing too, good show from New Japan as they ramp up the build for Wrestle Kingdom.

Lithium93_

Lads legitimate question, where do you both find the time to watch so much different Japanese wrestling?

LineOfBeauty

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Lads legitimate question, where do you both find the time to watch so much different Japanese wrestling?

Hahaha fair question! I tend to either try and catch the shows live where possible or at least a couple days after they air. In terms of making time, I just limit how many TV shows I watch and sometimes fit in the shows in multiple sittings. It's about picking your spots too, NJPW and now Dragon Gate are my 100% must watch, DDT and NOAH are like 50% if I know there's a big match or angle that has me hooked I'll watch. AJPW and Stardom are like 10% at best, maybe the odd 2AW show too. If you're ever thinking of getting into it, it's just important to have your priority list.

RollieFingers

More matches made official for Wrestle Kingdom.

Night One gets ELP/Hiromu, O'Khan/Tanahashi and Dangerous Tekkers/G.O.D.

On night two it's the winner of the junior heavyweights against Ishimori, EVIL/SANADA and Cobb/Shingo.

They must really like O'Khan if they're giving him a singles match at WK with the Ace. Expect a few more to be added, I'd say Mox will vacate the US title seens as he didn't even appear on video at Power Struggle.

Not the most amazing Wrestle Kingdom card ever put on paper but considering Covid it's not the worst effort at all. Looking forward to it.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

More matches made official for Wrestle Kingdom.

Night One gets ELP/Hiromu, O'Khan/Tanahashi and Dangerous Tekkers/G.O.D.

On night two it's the winner of the junior heavyweights against Ishimori, EVIL/SANADA and Cobb/Shingo.

They must really like O'Khan if they're giving him a singles match at WK with the Ace. Expect a few more to be added, I'd say Mox will vacate the US title seens as he didn't even appear on video at Power Struggle.

Not the most amazing Wrestle Kingdom card ever put on paper but considering Covid it's not the worst effort at all. Looking forward to it.

Seeing the cards have me a bit more excited than I was honestly. January 4th looks stronger, probably because the semi main of Ospreay/Okada does way more for me than Evil/Sanada on the next night.

O'Khan/Tana has potential. The obvious comparison is Jay White getting the Tana match a few years back but I think O'Khan has a better chance to succeed here because he's been on a few tours already, his big moves have already been established, it should help with crowd reaction. Definitely they are all in on him.

Probably one of the weaker WK cards this decade but still better than I thought it would be.

LineOfBeauty

Dragon Gate today at Korakuen was a tonne of fun. Noteworthy too. Shun Skywalker's new unit unveiled its name "Masquerades" and a new member La Estrella who beat Susumu Yokosuka. Also Ultimo Dragon has kind of aligned himself with Team Boku (or at least, Bokultimo). The Doi Darts main was a lot of fun, so much action and little bits of story to pack into a match along with moments of Ichikawa popping up, the core was carried by Mochizuki who also won it for his team.

Eita ate a pin for his team against a Toryumon team which looks ominous for R.E.D heading into that elimination tag at Final Gate on Sunday and the semi main of Shun/Dragon Dia vs Ben K/Kzy was really good too, again interesting to note that Kzy ate the pinfall, as he has done quite a bit since his challenge for the Dream Gate. Enjoyable stuff, roll on Sunday.